Canadian feminist activist receives death threats and other abuse after being targeted by Men’s Rights Activists
And so the MRAs have found yet another woman to hate.
Earlier this month, as many of you no doubt know, a Men’s Rights group sponsored a lecture at the University of Toronto. The event drew protesters, and the protesters drew MRAs with video cameras. One of the MRAs filmed a confrontation between a red-haired feminist activist and a number of MRAs who continually interrupted her as she tried to read a brief statement.
Her crime? She wasn’t exactly polite in responding to the interrupters. And so, after video of the confrontation was uploaded to YouTube, and linked to on the Men’s Rights subreddit and elsewhere, she became a virtual punching bag for the angry misogynists of the internet.
A Voice for Men, naturally, led the charge, running an article by Canadian MRA Dan Perrins labeling her “Little red frothing fornication mouth” and commenting on her breasts. The Amazing Atheist weighed in with a video I couldn’t bring myself to even watch.
Since being targeted by angry YouTube misogynists and MRAs, the red-haired activist has received death threats, rape threats and literally hundreds of other hateful and harassing messages. She’s also been “doxxed” — that is, she’s had her personal information plastered all over the internet, including on A Voice for Men’s forum. Ten days after being uploaded to YouTube, the video of her faceoff against the MRAs has garnered more than 300,000 views, and YouTubers are still leaving threats and insults and crude sexual comments.
This, apparently, is what “Men’s Human Rights Activism” consists of: the doxxing and harassment of individual women.
Several days ago, she contacted me to tell me about the harassment she’s endured. Here’s some of what she wrote:
I’m the red-head. I’m sure by now, you’re one of the 260,000 people who have seen the video of me … .
Because I had the audacity to tell a dude to stfu, an MRA no less, I have since been the target of not only just online misogyny (as if that’s a surprise) but cyber stalking, rape and death threats. They somehow found my facebook, they found my tumblr, they found a twitter acct that I don’t even use, they even found an old [dating site] profile of mine with outdated info …
I also got an anonymous message on tumblr that specifically said “[name deleted] would be disappointed”. [Name deleted] is my dog that died 1.5 years ago, I don’t talk about him on tumblr, nor fb, so they would have had to reaaaaalllly dig to find this info. …
In about 12-24hours, I got about400-500 new messages on my blog, most of them hate, which included rape and death threats, also people wishing death upon me or the typical troll “kill yourself” message. They made a meme of me.
I dunno how many haters I have, and I don’t know where they are. I can’t be sure at any given second, if I’m ever outside my house … if anyone is going to recognize me and try to hurt me.
With her permission, I am reposting screenshots she sent me documenting some of the harassment she’s endured. Even though her personal information has already been widely disseminated online, I don’t want to contribute to that, so I’ve whited out any information that might reveal her identity.
TRIGGER WARNING for what follows, for threatening language and crude sexual remarks.
Here’s a death threat she received from someone claiming to represent the “Islamic Brotherhood.”
Here are some sample comments from her Tumblr inbox. I’ve whited out comments and parts of comments that consist of her contact info, which being sent to her in an attempt to intimidate and frighten her by letting her know they “know where she lives.”
Here’s another threatening comment sent to her via Tumblr:
Here are some comments sent to her via her YouTube account. You’ll notice that the second comment comes from AVFM’s Dan Perrins, who is clearly relishing the attacks on her.
And another glimpse into her YouTube inbox:
Here’s a screenshot from a Men’s Rights forum revealing her personal information.
Meanwhile, over on YouTube, the hateful comments continue to pile up. Here are some of the nastiest ones I’ve collected. I am deliberately posting a lot of them in an attempt to convey something of the relentless nature of the attacks on teh red-haired activist — though I should note I’ve only gone through a small portion of the total comments there and this doesn’t even reflect all of the awful ones I found. These are not in any particular order. I threw in a few non-threatening ones that struck me as a tad ironic or otherwise revealing.
Again, this is only a small fraction of the abuse she’s gotten on YouTube.
This is what happens when MRAs and other misogynists target a woman online. The only thing that’s surprising here is the sheer amount of the hateful comments.
I’ve seen no serious attempts from any MRAs to rein in this sort of hatred. A Voice for Men has tried to distance itself in a superficial way from some of the harassment it has played a central role in unleashing, with an official announcement asking readers to refrain from posting the personal information of the red-haired activist in the comments. Meanwhile, in the AVFM forum, comments linking to her defunct dating profiles remain up.
This is what MRA “activism” looks like.
Coming tomorrow: A more detailed look at AVFM’s role in the harassment.
Posted on April 15, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, atheism minus, gloating, harassment, hate, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, not-quite-plausible deniability, penises, racism, rape culture, rape jokes, reddit, sexual harassment, taking pleasure in women's pain, the c-word, threats and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, harassment, men's rights, misogyny, rape jokes, reddit, university of toronto. Bookmark the permalink. 2,101 Comments.
Ah, you’re still less cynical than me. My reaction to his last “yes that totally happened in my case too” comment was “sure it did, buddy”.
I mean, if it actually did then that’s horrible and it shouldn’t have happened and the people who did it should be ashamed of themselves. But in this context, given what he’s trying to do, do I take that statement at face value? Not so much, no.
@cassandrasays
Yeah, that’s my initial reaction too. I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one though, because if it did happen it’s horrible, but…idk he just keeps adding to it. oh well. Either way he needs to raise his standards for people not receiving death threats all the time.
@CassandraSays; @Fade –
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I have made it explicitly clear that such things are not to be encouraged. All I’m pointing out is this; such behaviour is expected and many of them do it for shock value. That is certainly not the same as condoning such behaviour. Additionally, why do you resort to ad hominem attacks? I’ve remained polite in all of my conversations with people here. I am here for genuine discourse, but you attempt to derail it.
if you’re not interested in polite discourse you may as well tell me now.
Lastly, Fade, you’ve drawn up a false dichotomy with regards to MRAs and Feminism. Being opposed to feminism is not to be pro-MRA. I’ve stated that there are MANY things I disagree with in the MRA sphere.
Jonathan, here is something that lots of straight guys, men, dominant groups w/e do not understand.
You can say you bigotry without any curse words and claim it’s polite. That doesn’t make it not bigotry
@jonathan
I’ll bite. What do you disagree with in the mra sphere.
Also, don’t know how many times this has been said on this thread, (quite a lot) but everytime someone goes ‘well, death threats are bad, but it is the internet it’s not really helping.
Hello Marie,
There is a small sect within the MRA group that believe relationships with women is inherently flawed and dangerous. They advocate for the destruction of family claiming that women are toxic to family life. My views are simple, men and women are not the opposite sex, they are the complimentary sex. Both Mother AND father are important for the upbringing of the child. This was the big debate that happened not too long ago between the traditionalists and the anti-family MRA.
To my knowledge, the MRA was started with three things at the heart of it. Restoring fatherhood, repairing female/male relationships and encouraging strong family.
Now the traditionalists within the MRA hold to the belief that men and women are needed for family life. The anti-traditionalists were primarily anti-family.
I tend not to get involved with such organisations because they sway given time. Another thing I’ve noticed with the MRA is men using the victim card to not get anywhere in life. There is a difference between a man who sees a problem in his life, tells people about it, outs the institutions and a man who sits at his computer blaming women.
Another thing I’ve noticed with a few MRAs is their inability to distinguish between feminism and women and their reluctance to do so.
I cannot stand this victim mentality nonsense. Pity is the greatest destroyer of men.
I truly genuinely want a better future for us all, for fathers, family and boys.
kind regards,
Jonathan
@Jonathan
Really? Men and women are not that different. Though at least I see where you’ve got some of your ‘gay people must not raise kids’ bs from. Because somehow a kid needs a mother and a father. Why? Do you think they play different roles? cuz I’m curious why my experience of being raised by a mother and a father (who I have nothing against, they’re nice people) would match your theory. So share. Why does a child need a mother and a father, in jonathan-verse.
“Really? Men and women are not that different.”
I see lots of evidence that men and women are different. Men tend to exhibit interests in the hard sciences and women are drawn to the life sciences, nursing/nurturing jobs. The fact that men are built by nature differently to women is evidence of the differences between men and women. It would be rather absurd to believe that evolutionary pressures molded every part of the body except the brain.
I tend to be very apathetic with regards to gay people raising children. What I am opposed to is gay marriage and the reason for that is well sumerized by the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1mAiXdCM_M
As I understand it, gay people are guaranteed under the constitution to have BIOLOGICAL children by means of surrogacy. They cannot be denied the rights to biological parenthood, which is indeed a right.
My statement that a child needs mother and father is more in support of, or rather an attacking point, to the single-parent problem from both MRA and feminist sides than it is a statement about homosexual parenting. I have nothing against single-parents, I just don’t think that is a very stable or healthy “family”.
I hope that has cleared any questions.
kind regards
Jonathan
Well, Jonathan, I am not sure you understand the purpose of this site. The title doesn’t read ‘Misogyny: I Invite Polite Debate Over Whether It’s Ok’, it’s ‘Misogyny: I Mock It’. If you come in here with misogynistic ideas couched in an insincerely cordial letter writing style, you aren’t being polite, you are being presumptuous. No one invited you here for a debate. You don’t dictate the rules by which you are addressed here. If you say something someone here doesn’t like, they may very well mock you, and they will be the ones who have kept with the spirit of the site. Further, I addressed you directly and you completely ignored me- presumably because I said something you can’t refute. That speaks volumes of your disingenuous approach to discussion.
@Jonathan
Right. Going to take this slowly.
Your perception =/= reality. You’re going to need some citations (that aren’t horribly out of date, thank you very much) if you want to talk about evidence.
Someone should tell my mom, who’s a biochemist, she’s in the wrong science. Going to make a list of women who’s jobs I know in real life (you tell me if they are nurturing):
mother- biochemist
soon-to-be-stepmom- mail carrier
friend- nurse in ER room. Met her at the karate dojo which she started doing after she decided she wanted to learn self defense because the numerous times she was threatened, sometimes at knife point, on her job.
another friend- writes math text books
only one of the first four I thought of could be construed as nurturing imo (the nurse) and it doesn’t seem to match up so well, because that woman is kinda a tough ass. If she’s nurturing (she may be, I haven’t been in the position to judge for myself) it’s probably not this peaceful motherly love bs I get the feeling you’re trying to have me imagine.
That differently? Are we pretending that trans* people, non binary people, intersex people, ect don’t exist? Because (someone correct me if I’m wrong) I’m pretty sure humans are one of the primates with less sexual dimorphism. I mean, men are bigger and taller than women on average, but there is a buttload of overlap, and you can’t just pretend it doesn’t exist to fit your pet theory.
I’m not watching your homophobic video. If you feel the need to ‘persuade’ me, tell me yourself.
…I’m…not seeing this. So, gay people can try to ask friends to help them out, but if they try to adopt a child who actually needs a home, it’s wrong?
Nice scare quotes. And kids with two parents are going to be better off, cuz more likely to have more income. So not saying much.
As a personal anecdote, I’ve been doing much better since my parents divorced. Part of this was getting on anti-depressants and having time to think, but part of it was getting space from my dad (during fights he tends to escalate things, instead of help bringing them down) and having space to split up from my sister when one or both of us needed it. I’m not sure how everyone else feels about it, but I’m guessing the divorce was a good thing for all, at least in the long run. My dad’s getting married next July, so he’s hopefully in a happier place. Single parents may be rough on kids for some time, but I think it is way better than having everyone stay in a loveless marriage.
Also, I can’t speak for mras, but I haven’t seen many feminists go ‘yeah! single parents! The bestest way to raise kids!!!!!’. It’s just something that happens when people don’t feel as forced to stay in marriages they don’t like, which is fine.
It is pretty presumptuous to assume that the homosapien brain is built in a way that is complimentary to our current incredibly complex industrial society. Citation needed. Evolutionary psychology starts with that basic assumption and has yet to provide anything but correlation-causation fallacious reasoning to support that claim. Despite the fact sociologists and feminists have come up with more sensible and reasonable explanations for the division of labour fro years- with actual data supporting their theories.
@TimeTravellingfool
I haven’t made one misogynistic comment here. If I did, I would have been put on moderation.
“No one invited you here for a debate. You don’t dictate the rules by which you are addressed here”
–That is continued affirmation of have I’ve always believed about feminism, and you’ve admitted that yourself. It is rather telling if polite conversation is now considered part of making the rules. I merely inquired after why ad hominem attacks were used. If you want to resort to such manners of response, I have no issues with it – it’s your prerogative.
“If you say something someone here doesn’t like, they may very well mock you, and they will be the ones who have kept with the spirit of the site”
–There is no contesting that. As I understand it, the spirit of this site is to mock misogyny. Now if they were keeping in line with it, they only expose two things. It would follow, by extension, that I am a misogynist. If anyone can demonstrate that I have indeed been a misogynist, I will gladly amend my points and offer apologies.
If you cannot demonstrate that, the only logical conclusion is that the ones making the rebuttals are allergic to facts and critical thinking.
“Further, I addressed you directly and you completely ignored me- presumably because I said something you can’t refute. That speaks volumes of your disingenuous approach to discussion.”
I did not see your post, my apologies. I did go back and wade through the responses and I am in complete agreement with you Doxxing is terrorism. However, my contention was never with regards to the Doxxing, rather the death threats on YouTube. Even if I had seen your post, I probably wouldn’t have responded to it – it is rather unnecessary. When you agree with someone, it is common practice to move onto the next point.
Regards,
Jonathan
Oh wow, did he just dismiss cross burning terror acts by kkk members that pecunium used as an example?
Yes, because this is just, “spirited debate” or some such shit. He seems to be of the group which values Frozen Stone Fruit above people being able to engage in healthy debate.
Jonathan: Where can you find AVfM calling Thomas Ball an activist? Promoting his “manifesto”? Under the link, “Activism”
Being critical of feminism is not hate.
What about saying “I’ll come when I’m slitting your throat” is “critical of feminism,”?
–Could you elaborate on that point, I don’t understand what you’re trying to tell me.
Elaboration
–I am not part of Men’s Rights Activism, first off. I do find many things I disagree with them on, and things I agree with. That is more common ground that I’ve seen in feminism, which I am quite opposed to.
Ok, so you are a fellow traveller with a proto-hate movement (and as seen above, re AVfM and their praise of violence, not prone to critical examination). That’s not helping your case. It makes you look more venal/stupid than simply being an MRA does.
It baffles me how you’ve made the link between campaigns of terrorism and this. I simply do not get it.
Because they are like. This woman (and she’s not the only one, Adria Richards, Kathy Sierra, etc) are getting a lot more than you say you got in your time of being a target. I call them hate campaigns because they are. This isn’t someone coming to a different blog to try and get the last word in. This is people saying, “the is where she lives, be a shame if something happened to her”. It’s not just saying she’s stupid.
Peace and Freedom!
I suspect Jonathan won’t get the joke… actually most of the people who are present regulars might not get it either.
Let’s just say I take some issue with Jonathan’s faux regard.
@jonathan
Just because you phrase things ‘politely’ doesn’t make them not hateful.
Here, I’m going to post a quote, since it says it way better than I would:
@TimeTravellingFoot
“It is pretty presumptuous to assume that the homosapien brain is built in a way that is complimentary to our current incredibly complex industrial society. Citation needed. Evolutionary psychology starts with that basic assumption and has yet to provide anything but correlation-causation fallacious reasoning to support that claim. Despite the fact sociologists and feminists have come up with more sensible and reasonable explanations for the division of labour fro years- with actual data supporting their theories.”
None of what I stated has anything to do with evolutionary psychology. It would be presumptuous indeed; to believe that the brain can change over such a small period of time. That does not address the issue that the brain has not been subjected to different evolutionary pressures to the female.
Could you provide links to this data?
@jonathan
….I …so don’t understand this. Also, you going to tell me why I seem to know so many ‘exceptions to the rule’ of women entering nurturing careers? Because I gave you the first four women w/ jobs I could think of, and you didn’t really respond.
@ Jono- No, misogynistic comments don’t put you under automatic moderation here- there wouldn’t be one friendly neighborhood troll here if that were the case. But let me rephrase- when I said comments I should have said misogynistic ideas.
I think it is rather more telling of your confirmation bias and sense of entitlement if you insist that a group that is here to enjoy mocking misogyny address you on your terms, and you take their reminder you don’t make the rules here as evidence of what all feminists do. All you have done is added some rather stark evidence that you are an entitled bigot.
So far you have taken our behavior here as evidence of what all feminists do, you support ideas that traditionally bar women from higher paying and higher status roles in society, you are against a movement that seeks to bring gender equality to society, and you have indicated you don’t mind legally imposed civil rights violations if they confirm to your narrow ideas of gender conformity. The evidence weighs heavily against you, I’m afraid.
The death threats on youtube were as a result of the doxxing.
Neither does it mean the female brain has had a significantly different evolutionary path, or, even if it did, this evolutionary path plays a significant role in human behavior, or if it does, that difference in human behavior is at all relevant to how we organize our society. You have made an incredibly broad assumption with no physical evidence to back it up. It is simply wrong to operate on a baseless assumption.
blockquote fail
Jonathan: Why are you putting words in my mouth? I have made it explicitly clear that such things are not to be encouraged.
No, you haven’t. You’ve engaged in lengthy apologetics, even here, in this comment.
All I’m pointing out is this; such behaviour is expected and many of them do it for shock value.
That is condoning it.
con·done
/kənˈdōn/
Verb
Accept and allow (behavior that is considered morally wrong or offensive) to continue.
Approve or sanction (something), esp. with reluctance.
So, you say we should accept it (because it’s a thing to be expected; and beside, they, “do it for shock value”, it’s not as if no one would ever take advantage of knowing where someone worked to attack them.
No matter how, “reluctantly” you accept it, you are still condoning it.
dditionally, why do you resort to ad hominem attacks? I’ve remained polite in all of my conversations with people here. I am here for genuine discourse, but you attempt to derail it.
Dude, simple insult isn’t ad hominem if you want less mockery, stop making it so easy to say you are a fool.
Also, you have not been polite. You have been avoidant of “foul language”, but you have been rude as all fuck, not least with this pretense of bonhomie. I am not your dear anything, and it’s pretty damned plain whatever regard in which you may hold me is low.
I don’t care one way or another if the discourse is polite, per se, what I’d like is honesty; which (if I am being frank) I’m not seeing you be.
I’ve stated that there are MANY things I disagree with in the MRA sphere.
Such as?
Jonathan: Your, “statement” didn’t detail any actual disagreements.
And that youtube clip… utter rubbish. He’s saying feminism is the cause, not the reaction. It’s also reductionist. It reifies, “fathehood”, over parenting; which is at direct odds with his earlier claim that nurture is more important than nature.
If RockingMrE is going to espouse a theory, it behooves him to not toss it out the window, when it’s being used to prop the sash.
They cannot be denied the rights to biological parenthood, which is indeed a right
But RockingMrE says (in that clip) that same-sex marriage is fine, it’s homosexuals rearing children he opposes.
Where do you stand again? Could you flesh out your actual position, rather then glip throwaway lines?
I haven’t made one misogynistic comment here. If I did, I would have been put on moderation.
Wrong twice. Look above, it declares it’s not a safe space, because misogynists are allowed a long leash. And you have made misogynistic commetns, the whole, “women are bad at science” schtick is pure misogyny.
I merely inquired after why ad hominem attacks were used. If you want to resort to such manners of response, I have no issues with it – it’s your prerogative.
Wrong twice, again. You didn’t merely inquire, you chastised (in a passive aggressive way, as you are repeating here). And you do have issue with being insulted (again, look up ad hominem (it’s not what you think it is), or you wouldn’t keep trying to shame people out of not taking your delicate feelings into account.
Then why are you contesting it? Perhaps you aren’t here for the debate?
If anyone can demonstrate that I have indeed been a misogynist, I will gladly amend my points and offer apologies.
Bullshit.
You will continue to spout nonsense like that above; pretending that rape/death threats are normal, and to be expected (even though I’ve gotten far fewer of them, and none in response to my writing about feminist issues), and saying women aren’t good at math, and that Evolution is why it has to be that way.
Those will continue to be misogynist lies, and you won’t admit it.
I did not see your post, my apologies. I did go back and wade through the responses and I am in complete agreement with you Doxxing is terrorism.
You lie. You responded to my comments about the combination of the doxxing and the death threats with, “boys will be boys, you have to expect that on the internet”. The death threats can’t be divorced from the doxxing. That she has been doxxed is undeniable (and you admit it). That she has, after she has been doxxed gotten more death threats is undeniable. They don’t exist in a vacuum.
However, my contention was never with regards to the Doxxing, rather the death threats on YouTube.
Again, you lie. You made a direct comparison to an event you said happened to you, with cojoined doxxing and death threats. By that fact alone you are wrong, you connected the two.
Oh, I do love a pecunium style smackdown. I think I should start a fanclub. There will be t-shirts.
@TimeTravellingfoot
“I think it is rather more telling of your confirmation bias and sense of entitlement if you insist that a group that is here to enjoy mocking misogyny address you on your terms, and you take their reminder you don’t make the rules here as evidence of what all feminists do. All you have done is added some rather stark evidence that you are an entitled bigot.”
Not at all what I said. If you enjoy mocking misogyny, that’s fine by me. I didn’t make any demands to be addressed on my terms. I requested it, as I thought it would be far more productive and because I didn’t deserve it. I am far too familiar with name calling and how it derails arguments. If such a request is considered entitlement, then that is quite frankly baffling.
I’ve taken the behaviour here as evidence as one that I am familiar with in my dealings with feminists both online and in the real world.
“you support ideas that traditionally bar women from higher paying and higher status roles in society,…”
Nope, I never once said that nor supported it.
“you are against a movement that seeks to bring gender equality to society…” It would then follow that any opposition to any social movement that defines itself nicely is hatred and regressive.
From the actions and the laws passed, I’m afraid I cannot side with feminism.
Unfortunately, the the supposed misogyny and hatred of women stems from utter verbiage and an inability to demonstrate positively where such accusations are validated.
The evidence is stacked against you, sadly.
Feel free to have the last say.
Jonathan: I didn’t make any demands to be addressed on my terms. I requested it, as I thought it would be far more productive and because I didn’t deserve it.
At last, a true statement.
. I am far too familiar with name calling and how it derails arguments.
Is that why you are saying we are engaging with ad hominem (when we aren’t)? Do you think that will insulate your fact-claims from scrutiny by derailing the conversation?
Best to save your time, we can multi-task.
From the actions and the laws passed, I’m afraid I cannot side with feminism.
Examples please.
Thank you for your condescending permission. I so would have refrained from response if you had not been so gracious.
@jonathan
and I am too familiar with tone trolling. Which is what you’re doing.
Nope, I never once said that nor supported it.
After your bs about how woman don’t go for ‘hard sciences’ and are just more nurturing? yeah, I don’t think so.
Which laws? The ones making marital rape illegal? Or other ones?
Second time, you’re going to have to use a citation, you can’t just claim there’s evidence and not back it up.
Lastly, I would like to see you answer about the women I know who aren’t in nurturing professions. I wrote that a while ago, and you are rather suspiciously ignoring it.
Wow, the disingenuousness just oozes from you, john. Passive-aggressively insinuating we are somehow in the wrong and proving what you know to be true of all feminists if we don’t acquiesce to your ‘request’- entitled and manipulative. And woa, woa is you when all your ‘good faith’ is misunderstood- please, spare me.
And yes, you support the notion women’s brains are just biologically suited to their gendered roles in society- you said as much above.
The last say? That is an incredibly puerile and rude thing for a dude who comes here in ‘good faith’ to say.
Ugh- woe is you. bad ttf.
For fun: some people I know personally and their jobs
Identify as female:
Physicist/oceanographer
acoustician
coastal oceanographer
interior designer
Pediatrician
Biologist (shark vertebrae analysis)
Biologist (Scallop development)
Chemist
Biomedical chemist
Product manager for organic farm
salesperson
geologist (mining)
art gallery manager
pharmacist
user interface designer
geologist (chemical analysis)
behavioral psychologist
naval officer
tutor
dog trainer
Identify as male:
physicist/oceanographer
coastal oceanographer
geophysicist
biologist (fish organs)
naval officer
sedimentologist
fantasy author
artist
geologist
computer programmer
tutor
network administrator
marine engineer
organic farmer
dog trainer
chemist
fisherman
Seriously, can we drop the men do X women do Y stuff already?
*checks thread to see how much it has exploded*
Why would anyone want to watch some piece of homophobic propaganda?
Translation: Men tend to exhibit interests in the higher paying fields that still have lots of sexism towards women who try to enter, whereas women are drawn to places that don’t try to kick them out because of sexism, even though these fields pay much less, mostly due to them being women dominated.
I’m sorry, that was the version of reality that doesn’t ignore all past history and socialization.
Translation: I have nothing against single parents, I just don’t think that they are stable or have real families.
And hundreds of years ago (still today, too, sadly) people thought that black people and white people were so different.
We also saw lots of evidence that the earth was flat. I mean, can you see it curving? Huh? huh?
I’d say you’re way of thinking is going the way of the dinosaurs, but frankly dinosaurs are cool. You’re way of thinking is going the way of smallpox and all those other nasty diseases that don’t occur much any more.
I will repeat: being polite (on the surface) about your bigotry does not make it any less bigoted.
You proved yourself that you were a misogynist and a homophobe when you spouted your outdated caveman ideologies on women and went on about why gay marriage should be illegal. This is not a Miss/Mr Congeniality contest. You do not get points for being polite. You get points for not being a bigot.
This just amused me too much to not include. First of all “supposed” misogyny. That only proves you are a misogynist. When women are paid less than men, valued less than men, sexual assaulted at a much higher rate with only 3 percent of rapists seeing prison time, and you say that misogyny does not exist, you are a misogynist. When people think that they can silence women by insinuating that they are all whores and that that is a witty retort instead of a blatant display of male privilege, misogyny exists. When people tell men to smile bastard, instead of smile bitch you can go on about misogyny not existing. When absences of men in history are made and then it’s treated as if men were just never competent enough to compete with the women, I’ll give a shit about your opinion. When people think that men talk to much when they talk the same amount as women I will say that misogyny doesn’t exist. Until then, you are just polite on the surface, but a bigot underneath.
Jonathan: You asked for evidence that people at AVfM condone violence.
Justice
Targeted?
He is fortunate … in the future he and his ilk will not be so fortunate. MHRAs are coming to realize that little will change (even if the PR war is won) until men specifically make it clear that feminists and their sympathizers will be held “accountable”.
Feminism’s success was mainly due to threatened withdrawal of sexual access to females, unless men accepted feminist demands. Since the 1960s, men have went along and only now are starting to understand the price is too high.
History clearly shows that societal changes only occur when the rising group holds the incumbent group “accountable”. Men **must** make this **very** clear or all the MHRA conferences, blogs, discussion groups, scholarly articles, and newspaper stories will only be viewed as entertainment by feminists and their backers.
They don’t have link comments, but it’s in the thread where John the Other says it’s “his turn in the barrel.
And one of my links didn’t go through. Pictured: male privilege in action
Fade: You go.
@pecunium.
Thank you. XD
I am forming the Fade smackdown club. :D
And Marie too. We have some great fiskers here.
Stop overshadowing me Fade, it’s not nice ;)
^kidding.
Sadly, I think your club will not have much to celebrate because I only respond to trolls articulately once in a blue moon*. Most of the time, I just point and laugh. Or ignore them because they are tedious.
*is that a real phrase?
@cloudiah
Oh yay! :D
“Feel free to have the last say” = “I have no rebuttal and I’m losing badly so I’m flouncing.” See also “Go ahead and flame me” etc.
Maybe we just need another ancillary blog like mine that celebrates all the great Mbz smackdowns by anyone. :-)
*clicks over to your blog to see the smackdowns*
@cloudiah
So he did flounce after that. I forgot whether he posted one more time or not.
Sorry if I’m a little hard to understand today, I’m quasi sick, and my danged computer is being difficult. /mope
@cloudiah
I just saw the pic of the sexy toothbrush and razor on your blog and can’t stop laughing… XD
Mine doesn’t really do smackdowns, it does artistry and hilarity. :-)
It is a sexy toothbrush.
I did figure that out when I clicked over. XD It is awesome, though
@cloudiah
Seconding fade. I can’t believe I never looked at your blog before.
Also, I am rather curious what train of thought led to the creation of that toothbrush…
wow, better get some fade t-shirts made as well!!
This is despicable. No one deserves rape/death threats, but how fucking convenient that you neglected to mention that the protestors promised “militant action,” attempted to intimidate people away from the talk and avoided requests to openly debate in favor of attempting to silence anyone who tried disagreeing with them, to the extent of breaking the law by pulling the fire alarm. Which only could’ve, you know, risked people’s lives by diverting needed resources, and wastes over a thousand bucks of Canadian taxpayer money, and which Red cheered for. And it’s not like she also “not exactly politely” dismissed talk of suicide victims with “oh, cry me a river,” right?
Face it. When MRAs fuck up you’re more than happy to subsume them all under an umbrella stereotype, but when feminists pull the same shit you get the luxury to bawl “NAFALT!” Guess what? You can’t push this onto the fringe radscum this time. Fucking clean house when people call you out on your mess.
How fucking convenient that you think it’s despicable just before you started in on your apologism and justifications.
Even if they “threatened militant action” people sending death threats isn’t acceptable. Furthermore the death/rape/torture threats and the doxxing which raises them to terrorism came after those things didn’t happen.
You fail twice.
, to the extent of breaking the law by pulling the fire alarm.
Did she do it? Did she call for it to be done? Nope. If it did, and any of the turdblossoms who have been maintaining the campaign of terrorism you are condoning here, had such evidence they should turn it over to the proper authorities, because vigilantism isn’t the way to deal with that.
You can’t push this onto the fringe radscum this time. So admit this is the MO of mainstream MRM activism. Glad to see someone with the courage to admit that.
Fucking clean house when people call you out on your mess.
The way you are doing here? With lies about what happened,and bullshit excuses for what “your side” did?
Why should I be taking advice from a hypocrite willing to so blatantly impeach his own honesty and credibility?
Were you like, reading the rest of the almost 1500 comments where people repeatedly pointed out she did not pull the fire alarm in the video that was posted?
MRAs have been online, advocating violence against women, everyday, for years. They have mottos printed on coffee cups about fucking feminists shit up. As everyone knows, they represent a hate movement arguing for the extermination of feminists, and the severe abuse of all other women. Everyone knows this, including the angry young women at the university that day. I’m happy to overlook them pulling a fire alarm or yelling stuff at these guys.
@chloe
Is some little troll missing a citation?
Also, anyone whines about ‘wasting taxpayer money’ I always want to play for them the worlds tiniest violin.
Hey, Chloe – everything you’re bringing up has already been discussed in the two threads on the woman in question here. Either use the back button or learn to Google.
Johnathon, honey, nobody here is interested in “debating” whether or not women should accept the limited role in life that you’d like to impose upon us with you. Everyone here has already thought this issue through for themselves and reached their own conclusions. Given that you’re clearly not open to having your mind changed on this issue, why on earth would you expect anyone else to be?
Hypocrisy isn’t a good look on anyone.
The slowly-becoming-more-troll-savvy part of me wonders if Chloe is actually whoever it was who was posting the video and lying about its contents, hoping that a new start with a girls name will make us say “BUT A GIRL SAID IT !!!! OMG!!! IT HAS TO BE TRUE!!!”
If Chloe is a girl I will eat my…well actually I don’t have any hats right now so I guess I’ll have to eat someone else’s.
What on earth happened at that protest that is so horrific to you? Some university students exercised their charter rights and fundamental freedoms in the form of protest. There was mild civil disobedience in the form of pulling a fire alarm, but except for that it was entirely lawful. You entered the public with your ideology. The public booed you off the stage. Them’s the breaks. But you don’t want freedom of speech, you want a monopoly on all expression. Well, you don’t get that. Also, universities are semi-private institutions- students get a say on what goes on behind those doors. If you don’t want to be reviled, be less revolting.
But rather than accept your place in the public dialogue you are targeting individuals who actively counter your ideas in the hopes of terrorizing others into silence. That’s your place in the narrative.
Also I saw some dudes in the background who appeared to be supporting the feminist protest rather than the MRA event. Why aren’t these “activists” going after any of those guys? Wait, I already know the answer to that question.
Try harder, “Chloe.” You’re roughly 1500 comments behind.
Here’s a thing- are American protesters usually more polite than this? Shut the fuck up is pretty standard fare at a protest back home, though there would be more fist swinging and police involvement if the picket lines weren’t clearly kept.
TTF: depends on the protest.
@cassandrasays
I don’t have a hat, but I have a hairband, so that can be eaten ;)
TTF, thanks for that. You’ve organised my thoughts on the matter for me.
I love how pulling a fire alarm has suddenly become a cardinal sin in MRAland. I expect them to now go on a crusade against every frat boy in America.
And in other news, water is wet.
No fucking shit. I think I, and everyone on this website, made it clear that she didn’t deserve that. But you can’t use that to pretend she was inherently right.
If you even bothered to apply the slightest bit of reading comprehension to my comment, you’ll see that I said she noticeably cheered when the false alarm went off.
Skip to 0:25 to see for yourself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2KPeMcYsuc
She’s screaming at the top of her lungs, helping to drown out the discussion going on inside. Then the fire alarm is pulled and all the feminist protesters start cheering, including Red. Dare I say that cheering for an illegal act that silences a conversation pretty much makes you an asshole?
You fuckwits are really having that hard of a time admitting and reprimanding some of your own for sinking to illegal means to disturb a conversation? And way to downplay her open mocking of suicide victims as “not exactly polite,” Manboobz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KWuLVtH6vgM Coddling a woman’s actions makes you a true fucking champion of women’s rights.
http://yourlaws.ca/criminal-code-canada/437-false-alarm-fire
http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/2005643-prank-fire-alarms-costly/
Huge difference between speaking out and silencing. Anyone who objected was invited to participate in an open debate. Instead, these shitstains actively disrupted it by blaring through their megaphones, banging on doors and lockers, and effectively cutting off the talk prematurely. Here’s a reporter’s live-blogging of this, via Canadian-Liberal: http://live.ryersonian.ca/Event/Protesters_expected_to_disrupt_mens_issues_awareness_event_at_U_of_T?Page=0
You know what’s hilarious about this? Feminists are always telling MRAs not to invade their spaces and talk over their issues. Well, now MRAs created their own space to talk about men’s issues, and guess what feminists do? Trample over it, and scream over them. The same hypocritical shit that they accuse MRAs of doing.
Chloe: This. Post. Is. Not. About. Whether. She’s. Right. Or. Not. It is about the despicable, misogynistic behaviors of the MRAs. Get that through your fucking head.
And… how is protesting a hate movement wrong? I mean, if I heard there was a Klu Klux Klan meeting in my neighborhood, I wouldn’t say “okay, well they need a safe space to talk”. People can can demonstrate against things even if you don’t agree with it. I don’t think anyone’s saying MRAs don’t deserve a space (well, I personally wouldn’t give a shit if they didn’t have one), but people have already pointed out that hello, university? Not a private club or anything they invaded. A school campus.
*sigh* Chloe is so boring. We had this talk before Chloe. I should be sleeping, but instead I’m going to be trying to hit all the points on why you’re wrong, Chloe.
See, you say everyone knows it, but in the next breath you say we should be talking about what she did wrong. So clearly everyone does not know it. You can’t just say ‘everyone knows death threats are always wrong’ and then add a ‘but-‘ there without making it clear you are lying through your teeth.
Also, big ass citation needed on everyone pretending she was inherently (lol?) right. Nobody said that Chloe. Try to engage with what is actually going on.
…The horror? Doesn’t make her not a jerk (I don’t think it’s a jerk move, but different opinions) but the point is that she is not the one who pulled the fire alarm and it is not relevant here.
And earlier I thought you said you knew death threats were never justified. It’s almost as if you’re pretending to agree so you can claim you’re in the right. No, Chloe, you are a horrible human being who is trying to justify a fuckload of harassment against one woman because you don’t like what she did. You don’t like that she was a jerk, and you think she deserves death threats because of that. Your disguise is paper thin, you’re fooling nobody.
Also, Chloe, found the comment I wanted a citation, it was on:
I want you to show me where the protestors promised ‘militant action’, and how they tried to intimidate people. I also want you to tell me how the hell protesting something happening is the same as silencing, as I’m sure your explanation would be amusing, albeit unintentionally.
I gave zero fucks about the fire alarm shit. Normally I’d assume it was just a misunderstanding, but my patience is low today, so I’m getting the vibe you chose the one that was easiest to provide a citation for…