Reno calls a domestic violence hotline: The MRA Reality Distortion Field in action [UPDATED with transcript]
Today, a fascinating – and infuriating – case study in how Men’s Rights Activists twist reality around in order to fit their peculiar ideology. Obviously, they do this all the time, but it’s hard to find a clearer example of the MRA Reality Distortion field in action than the video I’ve pasted in below from A Voice for Men.
The video features a recording of one of AVFM’s regular commenters calling a domestic violence hotline, pretending to be a man named “Reno” who has been abused by his wife. In reality, Reno is Ian Williams, a puckish Australian who has made himself AVFM’s go-to guy for prank calls; you can find several other prank calls from him on his AVFM contributor page.
Here’s what Williams, who also goes by the pseudonym Dr. F, has to say about the call:
If you’re a man and you are a victim of violence from your partner you may face difficulties finding help. Don’t listen to me, here’s the guy himself who called. His name is Reno.
Reno calls a battered women’s shelter and is denied help.
He is denied help, even though he tells the person on the other end of the phone that he is worried his wife will return with a cricket bat.
That sounds pretty damning, and, in the comments, the regulars at AVFM responded with predictable outrage.
“No concern for a beaten man or a boy that could also be a victim and, only able to help(willing) women,” wrote Raven01. “It makes the hate filled ideology apparent to all.”
“[Go] feminism- the humanitarian justice movement brought to you by the modern KKK!” Perseus added. “Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Not one of them seemed to care that everything Williams says about the phone call is false. “Reno” was offered help many times. He was the one who refused it.
If you listen to the call, here’s what you’ll find:
Williams, pretending to be “Reno,” called a Domestic Violence counseling line, not a battered women’s shelter. He told the counselor he’d been attacked by his wife and that he needed a place to go. The counselor explained to him that he’d called a counseling line and that she personally couldn’t arrange for shelter, but that if he called the men’s help line, they could arrange for him and his 6-year-old son to get free hotel accommodations at a location unknown to his wife. The counselor offered several times to connect him directly to the men’s help line.
Williams also told the counselor that he was thinking of calling the police. She told him she could connect him directly to the police, and would be happy to explain his situation to them and to make sure he reached an officer who specializes in domestic violence.
Ignoring all her offers to assist him in getting shelter and further help, Williams insisted that he wanted to be housed in a battered woman’s shelter instead. The counselor, naturally, was puzzled by this strange insistence on his part, and explained to him again that he could get free shelter at a local hotel for as long as he needed. She again offered to connect him directly to someone who could get him immediate help.
Having refused all of her offers of assistance, Reno abruptly ended the call — to the obvious distress of the counselor, who despite the patent weirdness of his behavior on the call had been patiently trying her best to get “Reno” the help he claimed he needed. (I suspect she sensed that his story was phony, but tried to help anyway in case it was true.)
Listen to the call yourself. It’s utterly surreal. What’s even more surreal is that Williams would make the bald claim that he had been “denied help” — and then put up a recording that clearly reveals that this claim is complete and utter bullshit. And I can’t tell if he’s lying or delusional.
That’s always the question with MRAs, isn’t it?
EDITED TO ADD: A commenter here has prepared a rough transcript of the call. There are a few moments where it was impossible to figure out a word or two, but otherwise this seems to pretty accurately match my memory of the call, which I’ve listened to several times. Let me know if I need to make any corrections.
Recorded message:
Family Violence Counseling Line. Please note for training and quality improvement purposes only, your call may be monitored. If you do not want your call to be monitored, please let the counselor know. If you wish to listen to ? regarding our privacy policy if you are already speaking to a counselor press one now, otherwise hold on the line for next available counselor.
[Ringing sound]
Counselor: Hello, this is *redacted* speaking, how can I help you?
“Reno”: Oh, hello. I um, was speaking to someone a short while ago called Maria,
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: And, and my name is Reno. And, um…
Counselor: Uh huh…
“Reno”: I was explaining, I was explaining to her that my, my wife, uh, is violent towards me with a cricket bat and other things.
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: And, uh, she gave me a phone number to call, and uh…
Counselor: Mmhmm…
“Reno”: I called them and um…
Counselor: A phone number for what?
“Reno”: Uh… Uh, it was to help, it was a, um… Pardon me, it was 1-800-015-188. It was a…
Counselor: I don’t know what that number is, so what is it for?
“Reno”: Uh, it’s a helpli-, it’s a possible, it’s a place where they might be able to tell me where I can get some shelter for the night. But there’s none of the… DV places ? are gonna help me, because I’m a man, you see.
Counselor: Have you called the men’s line? ‘Cause they’re the ones who specialize in, because in Australia unfortunately most of the, um… Services. Well not unfortunately, fortunately though, most of the services are for women, because 95% of domestic violence is perpetrated by men. So that’s why they don’t really have um… They don’t really have… So many refuges for wom-, for men. They do have places where men can go, but they’re normally um, like overnight men’s, um, places, like… Which state are you in?
“Reno”: Victoria.
Counselor: Victoria. I don’t know the ones in Victoria but there’s quite a few, for example, in Sydney um, that provide um, overnight accommodation but they don’t call them refuges as such because um… It’s the different situation only for women ’cause often they’re, well normally they’re fleeing with children. So um, normally the men’s ones aren’t, they’re not called refuges, they’re called like, a men’s hostel or an overnight, um, men’s overnight um, shelter, or they’ll call them different names but they don’t call them refuges. So, um, if you’re looking for men’s refuge that’s probably not in existence, but there are a lot of men’s shelters.
“Reno”: Will they take me and my boy?
Counselor: If you’ve got a child, um, they’ll probably prioritize you, I would say. Um, have you rung men’s line? Because they’re the ones who really have this type of information, um because they specialize in helping men. While general lines, like, we’re a counseling line, so we don’t actually have access to phone numbers for, um, directly for refuges. We can connect you to the refuge line. How old’s your, how old’s your son?
“Reno”: Six.
Counselor: How old?
“Reno”: He’s six.
Counselor: He’s six. And where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s with me. My wife’s gonna be coming home in about three hours, and she’s gonna, she’s gonna beat me.
Counselor: And he, and your son’s not asleep now?
“Reno”: No, he’s with me now.
Counselor: Why isn’t he in bed at 8.40, 8.48 in the-… Sorry Reno, but why is he awake at this time of night?
“Reno”: Because we’re about to just go somewhere, anywhere, out of the house because we just… We’re terrifed. He, we’re ready to go, so. We, we’re ready to go.
Counselor: Reno, this is really concerning me. Is he listening to you as you’re speaking on the phone?
“Reno”: No.
Counselor: Where is he right now?
“Reno”: He’s got some headphones on. He’s watching…
Counselor: What’s he doing?
“Reno”: He’s watching television now, he can’t hear any talk. I made sure of that.
Counselor: Yeah, I’m really concerned that he’s um, awake at this time of night. Um, the other organization that could most likely help you find accommodation and probably would be your best option would be ? Community Services, because they deal especially with children and families in crisis, and so they would definitely keep you together, they would probably actually put you in, normally they pay for a hotel or motel. A men’s shelter wouldn’t be the appropriate place to go with a child, definitely not. So, um, ? they give you, they have a lot of motels and hotels that they deal with, and put they in those instead of accommodation until they can find you permanent accommodation.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: Like, normally they’d pay for a flat or something instead, they wouldnt, they don’t continue to keep you in a, you know, holding pattern in a hotel. Sometimes they make you stay for, like, two weeks in a hotel.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: That would be a good option for you, wouldn’t it?
“Reno”: Yeah. And they wouldn’t let my wife know that, where I’m living? Staying?
Counselor: No, they wouldn’t do that.
“Reno”: ‘Cause she’s really violent. Really violent.
Counselor: They definitely wouldn’t. Um, they definitely wouldn’t let your wife know where you’re staying. I can help you with the phone call. I can introduce you, explain the situation, and see what they can do for you, if you’d like.
“Reno”: Hmm… Possibly, tha-, thank you. I think I might, actually what I might do is call the police now and then see how it goes in there.
Counselor: But your best option is calling the police and then asking to speak to a domestic violence officer.
“Reno”: Okay.
Counselor: They’re the ones that are the most specialized in this, so they deal with this day in and day out, and that’s probably stationed… Are you in area, in an open area? Are you in Melbourne, or are you in a town, or…?
“Reno”: Uh, I’m in Melbourne.
Counselor: Well, if you’re in Melbourne, most Melbourne police stations will have a domestic violence officer, and they specialize in domestic violence, and um, what you can get is to get a detective to come over, or a domestic violence officer, and say that you’d like to um, that you have um, fear of, um, harm of your wife who’s been abusing you. And what they’ll do is, they might um, even try and get an AVO so that she has to move out of the house and you guys can stay in the house.
“Reno”: Mm.
Counselor: They’ll try probably to do that so that you and the child can stay there. Or um, if you move, they’ll um, it would be, that she can’t actually have legal contact with you.
“Reno”: Yeah… No, we have to actually get away from her, we can’t stay here. So there’s nowh-, there’s no um, women’s shelter I could stay in, we could stay in tonight?
Counselor: Well, women’s, women’s shelter’s don’t take men.
“Reno”: They don’t take men.
Counselor: Why don’t you ring men’s lines? They would be able to tell you where you can go. Why don’t you ring the men’s line? Do you want me to connect you through to the men’s line? They deal with men. Men and women’s shelters are two totally different issues. Why do you want to go [to] a women’s shelter?
“Reno”: I just need somewhere where I can just get away from her, somewhere whe-
Counselor: Yeah, but why wouldn’t you, why wouldn’t you wanna go? Why aren’t you accepting this offer that ? will pay for hotel accommodations for you and your son?
“Reno”: Oh, because I…
Counselor: Why do you…
“Reno: Because I need to get out now.
Counselor: Yeah, but they would organize it now, they’ll probably organize someone to come and get you now. People work 24/7.
“Reno”: Oh, okay. I didn’t know what. Okay.
Counselor: ? Services work 24/7, or do you want me to put you through to your local um, police station and explain it to the domestic violence officer so that I can introduce you and explain your situation and see how they can help you?
“Reno”: No, I’ll, I’ll give them a call myself. Okay, thanks.
Counselor: Are you sure?
“Reno”: Absolutely.
Counselor: I’m happy to do it, Reno. I’m very concerned about your son.
“Reno”: No, that, that’s okay. I, I’ll go now.
Posted on April 2, 2013, in a voice for men, antifeminism, domestic violence, facepalm, imaginary backwards land, imaginary oppression, lying liars, misogyny, MRA, shit that never happened, the c-word and tagged a voice for men, antifeminism, domestic violence, men's rights, misogyny, MRA. Bookmark the permalink. 1,158 Comments.
@ Cloudiah
I unwisely followed hte link (what is it with me tonight? ) and unless I read wrong they were asking if the rape should be illegal? Like, wtf?
And he also compares someone who is anti porn and living in a society where people look at porn (in the privacy of their own homes!) to someone who is raped and yet doesn’t get diseases or pregnancy or physical wounds.
Like… extra trigger warning in addition to the one Cloudiah gave for the article and David gives for the site.
Like… so his logic is someone is not unconscious so it’s okay for others to “reap the benefits” or them being unconscious by raping them. It is just too… GAAAAAH for words.
I have to admit, I was majorly skimming because this is so disgusting.
I’ve been a daily lurker for many months, to the point where my partner is wondering why a manboobz page is always open on my phone or tablet…and I only now figured out how to make a fully anonymous gravatar to be able to contribute. I’m not tech savvy.
I think this site, David, and the commenters who make me smile are great. This post, though, made me extremely confused. I thought I understood the MRM/MRA illogic…but not this. I have nothing insightful to add on that.
As a silly thank you to you all, here are some pictures of my favorite strange animals. Like a lot of you, I love beasts of all shapes and sizes. I have my own small dog, who is both a female and a feminist.
http://www.zooborns.com/.a/6a010535647bf3970b0115711eeca4970c-800wi
Also, here is an AMAZING video of a walrus vocalizing. It’s loud, about 30 seconds.
http://www.wimp.com/walruspractices/
Good night!
Continuing the TRIGGER WARNING:
What “benefits” would any decent human being reap from raping an unconscious person? I just … GAH IT IS A TRICK QUESTION THERE IS NO BENEFIT.
Gah indeed. When you stare into the rape apology, it stares back into you.
So, to summarize, rape is OK as long as you make sure to drug the victim first? Does he work for whatever sketchy company makes roofies?
After skimming (a very, very) little more of that post, it seems to me like that guy is like Jaro or Dio… Cynic*. They like try to over intellectualize the whole thingie, like “well, when people turn on the lights, photons penetrate your skin** and no one would allow you to outlaw light.
It’s like… they think that people don’t count at all. And they think that surrounding the idea that people’s bodies don’t matter, or their mental wellbeing is “inquantifiable” and therefore doesn’t count, in big words and a pseudo-intellectual argument, they can out logic people who actually do give a shit about other human beings.
IDK… it’s just how it seems to me.
*(not saying his whole name. Does he have a google thingie set up to respond if he gets mentioned? Cuz I could swear last time his name popped up he was all like “I’m not Jaro!”)
**He actually said something like this. The linked article, not the two trolls.
G’night TomBcat!
“Also they’re not as good for snuggling.”
To the point I want a swim in tank…natural pool? You get the picture!my previous plec let me hand feed him (or maybe her, less sure on that one) — the loaches will play with my fingers. So straight swimming with them would probably freak them out, at least at first, but they’re surprisingly cool about hands (well, except my current plec, that grump is all “the evil hand! Upset the entire tank to hide!” [he's as big as my damned forearm, he's nothing to fear])
GAH THE COMMENTS, THE COMMENTS, Oh what a reasonable question you ask, let us just play around with that question as though no HUMAN BEINGS ARE INVOLVED because it is such an interesting question.
Oh for the love of the gods I can safely report that not knowing what actually happened is not better than knowing what happened.
Actual things that just happened: making tea, my father comes in, asks about my new tank light, how I afforded it, remind him that the state considers me crazy enough to give me welfare…”I don’t know why you’re playing the crazy card, you aren’t crazy!”
Totally spent an hour explaining my series of assaults, suicide attempts, assorted other symptoms because I’m not crazy, yep! At least I was making tea so I could make whiskey tea >.<
I am going to snorfle my kitties for a while and then go to sleep. Buster is rubbing her head against my arm like she knows I need snorfling.
Grah, sorry, you aren’t my therapist, just ignore me please.
No, Argenti, it’s fine I feel like there should have been even a bigger trigger warning or even one of those spoiler thingies. I just can’t wrap my head around someone thinking that is no big deal. As much privilege as I have, I still can’t imagine a world where a person can entertain that idea.
Okay, now I’m really going to bed.
I was just coming here to see if you guys had seen that disgusting article. You’re already on top of it. It makes me want to start a protest. I hope some women at that school will.
G’night cloudiah!
And honestly, I can’t fathom it either. I can grasp that some people (including at least one ex of mine) see um, sex with a too drunk to walk or speak partner as sex, fun, pleasurable. The filming and display of such partner to be a good joke. Twisted as that is, what I can’t fathom is people who pretend to be having a philosophical discussion saying shit like this:
“It is, I think, a red herring to say that there’s something peculiarly sacred about the boundaries of our bodies. Every time someone on my street turns on a porch light, trillions of photons penetrate my body.”
That’s like three fallacies wrapped up in a bow made without a shred of empathy. (Analogy failure, I’m angry, sorry my wit is failing me)
@cloudiah: to answer your question about Obama’s funding of brain research initiatives (I know I’m late to the discussion and also not David), if it’s the one I’m thinking of, a lot of people in the autistic community are pretty pissed. Not because we don’t want to understand the autistic brain, but because the emphasis on researching causes, prevention, and potential “cures” (personally I think a cure is impossible, but that’s another issue) takes away from funding for services that autistic people need in the here and now. Even people on the spectrum who would eventually like a cure would be much better served by greater access to social services and accommodations than by research on how to (maybe) prevent more autistic people from being born.
If this is a different thing than what I’m talking about, please disregard^
Could be a grepping loon, but there’s an even simpler explanation for why he might immediately know when someone mentioned him to Jaro…
I too am leaning towards katz’s explanation.
Well, I was asking a serious question, but I suppose that violence is worth mockery.
I’ll be taking screencaps, just in case.
Oh no, screencaps! Our plans to secretly erase this whole thread are dashed.
Now the whole world will know how much this community dislikes domestic violence against people of any gender and how MRAs actually undermine efforts for male victims of violence. Curse you zzzzzero!
Ok so let me apply logic! (I know, I know, manboobz used LOGIC! It failed!)
Man calls DV hotline saying he was abused
Man is told that his call can be transferred to various agencies, including one that can put him up in a hotel, and the cops if he wants to press charges (this is, in fact, encouraged)
Man refuses all those offers, ask specifically about staying in a women’s shelter, is told no
Man posts the call, and how he was refused access to a women’s shelter, online
Man says that the call was faked, and ignores that he was, in fact, offered various services appropriate to the situation presented (an abused man with a young son, in need to emergency shelter)
Man posts online, people see post, rant about how unfair it is, and go completely into fantasy land about what supposedly happened
Manboobz sees people ranting, goes “but, but…he was offered services!”
Mockery ensues
Facts at hand:
He was, in reality, denied access to women’s shelters, but offered emergency housing suitable for a male victim of DV and is young son
He was lying about his situation, in fact fabricating a situation whole cloth, to prove that as used men get no serivces
He, and MRAland, ignore that he was offered services appropriate to the presented situation, instead ranting about him being denied access to women’s shelters
Manboobz posted the above piece
Commenters here find it either/both hilarious and sad that the MRM would twist the facts so much because:
*gendered shelters are actually a problem for trans* people
*the claims that abused men receive no services, even with a call displaying what services are offered, do nothing to help abused men access those services
*even when the MRM has a point, it’s twisted into a falsehood that suits the goal of blaming feminists
Please do explain how mocking a response to a staged DV call, wherein “Reno” is offered a variety of services besides the one he wants (including better options, hotel vs shared shelter space), somehow constitutes mocking victims of violence.
Hi there! Long-time lurker, first time poster :)
So, I have been working as an intern at a non-profit since July 2012. We help with homelessness, non-emergency medical transportation, early childhood education and food boxes once a week in the community. We have helped single parents with children and some were in domestic violence situations.
AND THEN THIS GUY. I started the video, but had to stop 10 seconds in because I could feel my heart racing. Who the HELL does he think he is?! Calling up someone who works at the front desk of a non-profit, who has to deal with getting their funding cut and he decides to bother them with his inflated ego and need to be a victim. I am not a trained dispatcher like with 911 calls, but I know I have to treat the calls I get seriously. People in my city already think non-profits and charity are a joke. Knock that shit off, dude.
I hope I don’t come across as really angry or scary, I really like the community here! It just fires me up that this doesn’t stop.
It’s because their whole point is not to make it easier for victims of domestic violence to get help, but to make it MORE DIFFICULT for female victims to get help. They’re lobbying for the ability to infiltrate women’s shelters which were created that way specifically to avoid their abusers being able to find them.
They believe they should have ownership over their wives and girlfriends and she should not be able to hide from them at a woman-only shelter, so instead of lobbying for male-only shelters, they seek to shut down or integrate men into what is supposed to be a safe space for the female victims of abuse.
Great, I broke the thread. *gets out the duck tape, tapes thread back together*
“Sieg Heil, cunts!”
Just what I’d expect to hear from the human rights movement of the century – misogyny.
Oh gods, yes, that “economist’s” article. I saw it elsewhere – Feministe, I think, or possibly Hoyden About Town – and recognised the bit Fade quoted.
Strange (with apologies to The Cat From Outer Space, whose partner is an economist) that it should come a day after I was read about the economist who engineered the “relief” in the Irish Famine to make sure it wiped out more of the “excess population”, and was asking “WTF is it with economists who are indistinguishable from sociopaths?” Because this man fits that profile perfectly.
G’day Aaliyah, nice to see you back here! :)
I just… I mean, really? These helplines are generally staffed by trained volunteers, they’re usually understaffed and overstretched and often callers are on hold for a period of time waiting for a counsellor to become available… yet he decides to prank call to make a point? A point which isn’t even made but yet somehow he has hatefully twisted around to try and prove it.
@ zzzzzzero – No one here is mocking violence. But what did this man just do? He PRANK CALLED a domestic violence helpline to pretend he was a victim of DV, took up valuable time and resources that perhaps another man ACTUALLY needed and for what? For nothing. For a twisted, cheap shot to try and prove some of the MRAs bullshit.
I don’t even have words.
Oh by the way, thank you for the lovely welcome package from the other thread, Argenti Aertheri. I completely forgot to respond to that! :) The hard chairs are in storage, ready to be pulled out for whenever I have any men visiting me.
Adelaide — oh it’s a welcome gift available to anyone who doesn’t come barging in insisting we’re wrong (zero isn’t getting one!) Keep those chairs handy though! And be prepared to put out the SCENTED MOTHERFUCKING CANDLES if any man asks what women have ever made.
Maybe I’ll have to keep a SCENTED MOTHERFUCKING CANDLE on my person at all times, who knows when I’ll come across the need to whip one out.
did the counsellor really say the refuge is no place for child? Cos, like, um, that would be an odd thing to say. I think it’s fair to say that refuges can be stressful places and not ideal for a child. But it can be a better fucking option than staying in a house where there is abuse. Plus refuges often have children’s workers that can help support the kids. The ones I worked at often had big play days organised with the workers to socialise the kids and give the mums a break.
Lol, I’m honestly tempted, but I’m related to a bunch of people who should carry air freshened for all bathroom trips (but no! That stuff smells! Yes genius brother, that’s the fucking point)
So yes, SCENTED MOTHERFUCKING CANDLES have a purpose, and yes I have whiskey, and yes I should take my silliness and go to bed.
G’night
mooninternet.BigMomma — compared to a privat hotel room? Quite possibly.
I refuse to burn out my brain listening to it though, so idk. (Also, drunk, and actually going now >.<)
BigMomma, I think she said the men’s hostels are no place for a child? I’m not sure though.
Goodnight Argenti Aertheri. :)
night Argenti.
I don’t want to listen to it either.
The only problem with a private hotel room is that it can only be a really temporary measure, it’s simply too expensive long term; there are often no cooking facilities and there are security issues. If you are a parent with 3 or 4 kids, trying to organise them all and cope with the situation in general, a hotel room is pretty crap.
Which is why the MRA could be doing something useful about organising shelters for men, rather than whinge about increasing access to an already over burdened and underfunded service.
@Adelaide, aaaaaaahhhh…OK, that’s a bit different. Although, it’s worth pointing out that women only hostels are not a fabulous place for kids either. Refuges, IME, are set up a little differently.
Of course the MRM doesn’t actually want more shelters for men. They want fewer, or no, shelters for women. They don’t like the idea of their property having any rights, or being able to escape their violence even though that escape is likely to be chronic insecurity and poverty, particularly if there are children involved.
Nice to see you, Kitteh!
For anyone who doesn’t know: Aaliyah and mxe354 (the one with the B&W Botan avatar) are the same person.
Regardless of whether the victim of conscious, the cost inherent in being raped is being treated like an object, dehumanized, and violated. And this is something even date rape victims recognize. I’ve heard countless stories about date rape victims suffering from the attack even though they weren’t conscious at any point during the rape.
Yet another great (read: terrible) example of being against rape for the wrong reasons.
“Regardless of whether the victim of conscious” should be “Regardless of whether the victim is conscious.” Stupid typos. -.-
Kitteh’s: You got the dress! How it it? Does it fit and look fabulous?
^is it. Not nearly caffeinated enough right now.
Aaliyah: The MRM will tell you the only reason those date rape victims feel that way is feminism has told them bad sex = rape. See, if Feminsim™ hadn’t perverted the definition with all that consent stuff (which is too hard for Teh Menz to understand), those women would just say, “he’s a lousy lay” and go on with their lives.
What amuses me about this guys argument is that he’s saying he doesn’t care if some body rapes him in his sleep. Somehow I don’t think this is really the case.
This is so awful, the MRA’s blinded, illogical hatred of anything that benefits women is really scary sometimes.
The terrible thing is, that this stupid call was probably blocking the access of another person to much needed help and advice.
The MRA’s rant and complain about women’s shelters but do they think that they came into existence in a puff of purple smoke? No. Feminists and those working against violence against women had to fight for them, campaign and fund raise to set them up.
The MRA is perfectly capable of doing the same. But no, they throw their toys out of the pram and insist that someone else wave a magic wand and make the world cater to their demands.
They’re like so many of the teenage boys and young men that I know, if there is a woman around to do things for them they seem incapable of organizing their way out a wet paper bag.
On a cheerier note, we are finally getting some sun here in France and I am in the middle of making hot cross buns.
We shall see how they turn out, I’ve never made them before.
On the cheerier note here, a local bakery/coffee shop closed. It has been replaced with a new bakery coffee shop. I am going to essay their pastries on my way home from walking my partner to the train for work.
@historophilia…I tried to make hot cross buns and I was very average. If you succeed, let me know. I have hot hands which I think means I am shit at pastry (true so far) but should be OK at bread (mixed results so far). I think the yeast I used wasn’t good.
I haz a sad, Iain Banks just reveled he has terminal cancer.
*revealed* dammit
I’ll let you know how they turn out BigMomma. The dough is currently being left to rise for the second time after the fruit and spices have been added.
thanks historophilia. I am off to bed (almost 1am in Oz) but will check back.
MY KITCHEN IS FULL OF BEES.
Like seriously, and every window in the place is open and they still can’t find their way out.
G’night BigMomma!
On the cheerier note, our local Starbucks doesn’t look like it’s doing so well. But I have no taste for coffee, anyway.
On the sad note, I’m sorry Iain M. Banks has cancer, even though I haven’t read any of his books. They sound like they contain mirth, so I ought to check them out.
On a hilarious note, Ray Comfort has no idea how words work. If you don’t want to click on that link, Comfort said he thought the liberals had coined “bibilophile” by mashing up “Bible” and “pedophile.”
>Freemage @ 4/2 14:26
Couldn’t they have sent a staffer/volunteer to the company or to a third location to do the pickup? Seems safer, though I realize the shelter staff doesn’t have unlimited time either.
MRAs may choose to hear “all men are abusers” because it gives them a nice target (and it’s my understanding that “all men are abusers” has never been a tenet of feminism; at worst/most, there have been people saying “the system makes all men abusers even if they don’t mean to be, or even want to be,” which has been varying levels of defensible at various times), but from the shelter’s point of view, some men are abusers, and there’s no way of knowing which ones.
Though if you’re the sort of MRA who denies that abuse even exists, I suppose even that’s a target.
>Now then, I’m curious (morbidly) as to what Roscoe thinks the counselor ought to have done, given that housing the notional male victim in the women’s shelter was absolutely not an option (if you don’t agree with that part I welcome any counterargument that acknowledges that the women in the shelter have been abused, that there is no way of knowing if a given man is not an abuser even if he says he is a victim, and that anyone of any gender in any domestic violence shelter — or out of one — is entitled to be safe).
>Cassandra @ 4/2 20:43
It’s possible to be attracted to someone — in the sense of “fascinated by” or in the sense of pantsfeelings or both or each — without liking them. That just means they have high CHR. But if you never like them there’s not going to be a there there.
>Is it possible that Zero is understanding (or claiming to understand) our reiterating that Reno is not an abuse survivor as “he was abused and called for help and didn’t get the help and MBZers are denying that he was even abused”? Even though Reno acknowledged up front that the whole thing was a sting, and he was not actually abused?
@Historophilia: BEES!
My god.
Falconer, that gif is best.
We’re not quite at that stage yet but one of them appears to be trying to make a home in a beam.
Thank you, Falconer. You made me giggle.
I love that bit with Batman – because (as famed comic reviewer Linkara nicely said), I have no way of figuring out the delivery of the line. Bees. My god.
So now I just use it as a random catchphrase of gibberish to say when things are especially weird.
I guess that just leaves me with Nicolas Cages. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1GadTfGFvU
—
@Thread:
I don’t actually mind the fake call. I think its a legitimate attempt at figuring out whether or whether not a service works – like the occasional attempt by volunteers to get signed up for psychiatrist services without actually needing them but just citing generic symptoms. (To me) It helps see whether or whether not the infrastructure works.
Of course the take away from that should always be: “Okay, this happened, so it appears that this is working fine” or “Ah, okay, that happened, so we should investigate”. I’m not entirely sure(read=I can’t) I can find the same commendable dedication to improvement in the curious inability to understand that no one was being denied help. At best, I guess, he was being denied usage of services right this instant… but if you call a counselling service, that’s what they do. They give you numbers and places to go. Talk to you. Hell, at best, the guy was being offered services as exactly appropriate. So this is in fact a great example of reality distortion in perfect action.
Bees. My god.
@Rape:
Whether or whether not someone is conscious does not remove the stigma of the action. It’s a twisted attempt at negating negatives by going “Well, since you’re not experiencing it, you wouldn’t know, and what you don’t know can’t hurt you!”.
Counter:
So when I wake up, and look you in the eyes, and ask “Hey, I passed out last night, what happened?” what will you respond?
When I realize I live in a world where the only reason the people around me are not raping me is because I haven’t closed my eyes at the time, and the moment I do, they will, how are you going to avoid me going bark paranoid and stabbing you with a fork?
It’s the same trick with the old “If you were able to sleep with X, and no one knew, and it would have no consequences for you or them, would you do it?” where the assumption is you’re supposed to say “Yes, sure, no one will ever know”. But that’s just as false. You still know. You still choose to do it. And what’s worse, you choose to do it specifically because the lack of consequences. So we can infer that the only reason you’re not raping someone right this instant is because other people would look at you weirdly.
I don’t have qualms riding bicycles in quiet Southern traffic, but the thought of riding in LA traffic makes me weak at the knees.
I would never make a good bike messenger.
I’m glad she offered him some help, and I think it’s deliberate twisting of facts to claim he was offered no help.
I think the woman was…..unwise in her choice of words, when she said it was ‘lucky’ that most of the domestic violence help was geared towards women. For all she knew, he was a genuine victim: is it really necessary to tell a victim that it’s a good thing that there isn’t a lot of help available for them? Very tactless.
Additionally, the derailing of the conversation: why is your son awake, why is he not asleep. That was entirely pointless, and rude to imply that the most important thing in a convo about domestic violence is whether the child is awake, especially when he repeatedly stated it was for a good reason i.e to prepare for leaving the house. No parent needs their parenting skills criticized over such a trivial matter when there is a much more important issue going on.
While by going undercover he was technically wasting the womans time, lots of people go undercover to check the quality of services. When I worked in a supermarket, we had ‘undercover’ fake shoppers who checked our customer service skills. When there was an investigation into the medical services in my town, a woman went undercover there.
It’s not necessarily a bad thing to go undercover, even though I think this guy is exaggerating about not being given help. Also, the help available for male victims of domestic violence does need to be looked into without accusations of derailing or attempts at silencing: the feminist movement is obviously preoccupied w/ female victims, so it’s fair enough that other people recognize the need to help male victims,
We had solitary or carpenter bees at a place we rented a couple years ago. They were carving out places to lay their eggs in the wooden steps to the back porch. They left these really cute piles of sawdust underneath their holes, but probably they were weakening the steps. :/
@weeboy
Internet hugs for you, too, then, if you want them.
I was going to post my recipe for scalloped potatoes, but now that I know zzzzzzzzzzzzero is screen capping us I can’t risk it. If the ability to make delicious potatoes fell into the hands of the MRM, the WORLD WOULD BE DOOMED. BEES! MY GOD!
Curses! The MRM has foiled our recipe sharing for the last time!!!!!!!eleven!!!!!
(yeah, I know, I haven’t shared any yet, but recipes!)
For anyone who doesn’t know: Aaliyah and mxe354 (the one with the B&W Botan avatar) are the same person.
OOH! *had somehow forgotten* Hello again, nice to see you! Pretty name! :)
@WeeBoy: How’d I miss that you were down? Hugs!
@becca
You know that telling male victims that there is NO help is a fundamental tenet of the MRM, right?
That is not what is happening here. MRAs are deliberately harming male victims by telling them that there is no help. Most people who actually are recognizing the need to help male victims are feminists.
the feminist movement is obviously preoccupied w/ female victims
Ridiculous on the surface, or patently ridiculous on the surface? And no, pointing out that someone is lying is not “silencing” them. 9_9
Somehow I missed the part where becca said it was silencing them o_o (went back and saw it, but bloop.)
I had to register just to leave a comment, because I was so flabbergasted to read both the description of the phone call and the comments on the post. (I felt I needed to be A Voice For Reason, if you will.) We’ll see how trashed I get.
@karraflarra
You registered on afvm? or here? (sorry if you’ve posted here before and my brain’s just drawing a blank).