Manosphere misogynists: Perpetually angry that women can say no?
Women: Not obliged to say “yes.”
I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
Posted on March 25, 2013, in antifeminism, boner rage, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, oppressed men, penises, whores, women shouldn't work and tagged mgtow, misogyny. Bookmark the permalink. 1,147 Comments.
The pic is by Abraham Bosse, and I’d be surprised if he didn’t have lessons. It’s more to do with fashions in art and clothes, I’d guess.
When slashing first came in, a hundred + years earlier, it was ratty, genuinely torn clothing worn over (probably stolen) good clothes; the German landsknechts were noted for it (they featured in the sack of Rome in 1527 – nasty lot). Clothes that had small cuts, pinking, all over the surface were unstitched, but with the long slashes being worn by this time, they were trimmed and edged with braid. Men’s clothes of this time were still pretty bulky – the doublets were heavily lined and stiffened, though not nearly as much as Elizabethan clothing.
/fashion geek
However here is someone who looks better even allowing for stylistic convention … :)
He is certainly a very fine looking man, and the fashion suits him well.
Yes to both! I always liked that high-waisted line.
I got all excited the first time I saw that painting. It’s at Chiswick House in London, and all I knew (this was in the pre-Net days of 1989) was that there were pics of him and Anne there. It was the first portrait of him as an adult I’d seen where he was wearing civvies instead of armour, and I sneaked a few shots-with-flash while the guard wasn’t looking.
The church behind him is still there; it’s St-Paul-St-Louis, in the Rue Saint-Antoine. He had it built. Been there, too! :)
This is the matching one of Anne.
Ok that shirt/corset/thing is awesome, the lace is lovely, but wtf are those things on his feet?! It looks like what would happen if someone stepped on your foot…that was made of play doh.
Love the almost certainly unboned but silly stiff shirt/jacket/upper layer.
Hehe, so much fashion discussion.
Hey! I’m in Welly – remember the makeup thingy that never eventuated? That was with you, right? We must follow through one day. :D
Oh my, so bad. They are the most unflattering things ever!
You’re not wrong!
Okay, the baggy pants thing is one of those things that happens when a subculture gets appropriated by the dominant culture:
1: In prison in the U.S., budgets are deliberately kept low. Thus, there’s generally a lack of specific sizing of prison uniforms, and similarly, they don’t have good elastic (and belts of any sort are right out, for safety reasons). If you don’t happen to insta-fit one of the few sizes available, you’re given the next size up and have to make do. This means that a lot of guys in prison walk around with slightly oversized pants, causing them to sag down.
2: In black, urban America, because of the oppressive and blatantly racist nature of the American police state, having been to prison isn’t necessarily a mark of shame–it often means you were more loyal to your gang than to yourself (since you went to prison instead of ratting people out). So former inmates, in order to display their cred, would wear their pants in a similar fashion; it also shows a certain solidarity with those still inside prison.
3: Hip-hop culture often adopts gang culture symbols for marketing purposes. So rappers started wearing the style, too (the first wave to do so was mainly made of former inmates who were also rap artists; then the fashion spread to those artists who simply adopted the trappings of gang culture).
4: At this point, two things happened, as frequently does with subculture fashion. One, the fashion spread to the dominant culture. In specific, to the same white, middle-class suburban youth who are the dominant market for ‘mainstream’ hip-hop and rap music. Two, an exaggeration of the original style–increasingly low-hanging crotches–cropped up in order to further differentiate from the appropriated style. This is usually how the cycle runs–eventually, the style hits the outer limits of practicality, and is superceded by a new style; I figure we’re getting close on the baggypants thing.
Oh, as a side-note: In discussions about this, you’ll occasionally hear someone blather on about how the low-slung pants in prison is how a ‘prison b****’ (an inmate who trades sexual favors for protection and boons) announces they’re ‘open for business’. This rumor is a lovely trifecta of homophobia, racism and prison-rape apologia. Don’t buy it, and don’t spread it.
Freemage eww no that’s not an idea I’d ever spread.
But I also think how the black angle is racist. Because white “skid row” people also dressed this way, due to poverty, but we’ll overlook that, because Black people go to prison because Black. The idea is especially troubling given the ubiquity of the fashion among POC and the fact that Black men are presumed criminal on sight. I don’t doubt that there’s something to what you just posted, but the whole thing revolves around black men in prison that doesn’t sit quite right with me, it plays into the dominent tropes too well.
It also plays into the idea that Black people should not have their own culture and be able to stand in solidarity with each other based on that culture because they should be striving to be seen as more pleasing to white culture, and adopting our ideals.
@freemage- That is fascinating, thank you for sharing that fashion history!
@Valerian:
Supply and demand. Also read this.
@Fade: I start with Protagoras’ famous statement
“[the individual] man is the measure of all things”.
While in principle never refutable, for matters of fact it doesn’t sound realistic anymore in the 21st century [insert man on the moon blabber], we just know that empirical evidence and formal proofs are sources of knowledge; skepticism about these methods has become intellectually disreputable.
Even when we find a severe flaw in the human reasoning process, subjectivity of factual statements doesn’t follow. For example in the Monty Hall Problem you can still choose other lines of attack and finally get even very stubborn people to recant their wrong beliefs (e. g. with the “999 doors with goats” argument or simpler, we can just play the game).
But reg values and moral judgments, Protagoras’ statement seems more plausible than ever before.
For example let’s take our fellow blogger JudgyBitch, she thinks what happened in Steubenville isn’t a big deal and that the punishment for the two guys is excessive (also check out the posts “Why don’t we have a Dumb F*cking Wh*re Registry? Now that would be justice.” and “You weren’t raped. You’re a wh*re. Join the club.” which add several new interesting aspects to the discussion…).
Now how do you change her attitudes?
No… you won’t proceed like if she were wrong about the Monty Hall Problem! You’ll call her out and if that doesn’t help, you’ll mock her, then shame her, paint her as the “bigot she is” and bash her until she keeps quiet.
“Wrong” convictions that are challenged in this way don’t disappear, they only become hidden and may find other ways to express themselves, which of course you will want to suppress, too.
This is the problem with “we don’t want people to be sexist dickwads”, traditional methods like social norms or laws don’t get someone to BE something, you’ll only succeed in silencing people. Some ignoble feelings like our rage boner will come up natural in some people and since feelings beget convictions…
@freemage:
How weak must your position be that you have to resort to burning such a straw man? Do I still not engage in sufficient self-sabotage?
@Kittehs:
Then I’ll retract that claim and say “motivate” instead of “compel”.
But how much of a difference does it make if other parts of your brain are involved, too? The brain as physical system goes from one state to the next and what if the processes in your frontal cortex result in wrong decisions?
@hrovitnir:
The Daily Mail (very respectable newspaper, one of the finest worldwide) wrote that Bethany McKee “lured the victims to her friend’s house with the promise of sex and video games”…
If I look at this Joshua Miner guy, I wonder, if aside from the usual alpha-, beta-, zeta- and omega-male classification, we should introduce a new category..?
I would suggest kappa-male, for a criminal male who uses the physiological hybristophilia of women to his advantage. And like the alpha-male has beta-males in his pack, the kappa-male commands lambda-males. So the lambda-male in that case would be Adam Landerman. Another example would be Charles Manson (kappa) and Charles “Tex” Watson (lambda)…
Ah, what else… oh yes, since when is using “female” as an adjective considered wrong?
OK, now I know you’re trolling.
Please don’t. I don’t want yet another bullshit definition about something that never happens to have to remember in order to decipher little trolly hate-screeds. (See: Hypergamy, incel, code mauve etc.)
When you talk about women as adjectives and men as nouns. Even as a completely innocent stylistic affectation, it’s gramatically incorrect. What’s actually so hard about typing ‘women’ instead? It’s even got fewer letters.
Why are so many dillholes prepared to go to the hilt to literally use language incorrectly? WHY IS THIS SO IMPORTANT TO YOU?
ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha*wheeze*ahahahahahahahahahaha
Did he just call The Daily Mail one of the finest Newspapers worldwide?
Aww, it learned to Google and found a quote from a long dead Greek guy.
Sure they do. And feelings are not the only thing that generate convictions. Logic and experience are hugely important. Look at Rob Portman. His feelings about gay people were far less weighty with him than the experience of having a gay son.
I don’t care that people have homophobic thoughts nearly as much as I care that they not act on that homophobia and hurt others. Yes, I want them silenced, because speaking bigotry aloud hurts people. Nobody has ever thought that passing a law would change people’s minds, just their actions. That’s the only thing the law has ever been able to control.
Funny thing, when the law and the culture (i.e. “traditional methods like social norms and laws”) start treating certain bigoted beliefs as if they are shameful and should not be articulated, people who simply hadn’t thought about it much – the vast majority – who have just accepted what the culture had previously taught them, start changing their minds.
And yes, the die-hard bigots will rise up and pull shit like passing Prop 8 and DOMA, but we come back and fight them again.
There’s a reason you MRA trolls have to hide in tiny corners of the internet. If you said the crap you spew aloud in company or in public everyone would be horrified and you know it. I think sometimes that’s why you guys troll here so much. It’s finally a chance to say what you’re thinking somewhere that isn’t a protected MRA enclave. The problem of course is that we still find you as repulsive as the people you hide these views from in the meatspace.
@Jaro- When you start out with a screed like your first comment, we already know how you feel about women, and men, and their proper interaction. Stop trying to cloak it in pseudo-intellectual bullshit. Your equivocating is not welcome here.
Also, they call it the Daily Fail for a reason.
@ drst- First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Jaro: Oh, trust me–you self-sabotage quite enough. In fact, I’m inclined to ask you to make better arguments that might actually require some thought to counter, but then, you’re really not worth the effort.
pillowinhell: Oh, there’s lots of racism involved in the whole phenomenon, as you note. The suburban white kids appropriate the symbols without understanding their history and symbolism (thus leaving them culturally vacant); then their parents and grandparents use this as evidence of ‘black culture’ being inherently subversive and dangerous (and thus, to the condemnation of ‘black culture’ that has nothing to do with the actual culture being criticized, but rather, with the distorted version of it created by mass media). How subcultures interact with dominant cultures is a huge part of comprehending social justice issues. It’s this weird, “make it dangerous so you can make it safe” process. I’m just really coming to understand it myself–The Crommunist over at Freethought Blogs has done several columns that have helped me see how the process works, and what the function of it is in maintaining the dominant society.
@thenatfantastic:
I wrote “fellow female student”… what should I write instead? I refuse to use “fellow woman student”.
@drst: All idle talk, you’re doomed to fail anyway. I set my hope on technological progress. Your story will end, end miserably. The possibility to manipulate the human genome will concentrate power to such insane degrees and give it to we-don’t-know-yet, this will crush all your pathetic endeavours. You cannot win.
Reading comprehension? I asked you how to prove that these beliefs are bigoted or wrong, because beliefs which are now regarded as extremely bigoted and wrong have been just as easily adopted in the past. Everything you wrote just proves that most humans are sheeps. So it’s not like you give people just a little pat on their moral compass and they realize the truth themselves, you impose your beliefs on others.
All idle talk, you’re doomed to fail anyway. I set my hope on technological progress. Your story will end, end miserably. The possibility to manipulate the human genome will concentrate power to such insane degrees and give it to we-don’t-know-yet, this will crush all your pathetic endeavours. You cannot win.
You’re a terrible science fiction writer. The Gates to Women’s Country already did that story, and did it better.
So it’s not like you give people just a little pat on their moral compass and they realize the truth themselves, you impose your beliefs on others.
Wrong. I myself have gotten a “pat” or two on the moral compass and recognized my mistakes, and I certainly know other people who need as little as a sentence or two of education to change their minds about something. People like to believe both that they are right. If you can properly teach someone a method by which they may ascertain their “rightness” (eg. the scientific method) then they will have the means to correct themselves when wrong, and will often do so.
Changing the culture also prevents people from passing on ridiculous ideas to their children and the next generations; if grandpa believes that black people are inferior, but he knows it’s not acceptable to say so, maybe granddaughter will grow up without it ever occurring to her to think otherwise. Hell, just having a daughter or granddaughter in the first place has been shown to alter people’s beliefs about women and sexism. That’s a very little “pat.”
@Freemage
Great breakdown of sagging. I was gonna suggest that it started with the urban/hiphop culture, but growing up there seemed to be a parallel movement in the skateboarding community. I was wondering if sagging was appropriated by the skateboarding community, or if it was actually parallel? I didn’t grow up in N America so while I was heavily influenced by the growth of hip hop, I was also a little removed from it.
Shadow: I’m less familiar with the skateboarding community overall; I do know that it’s heavily focused in suburban and upper-middle-class urban neighborhoods (where the locals have the means to build decent skate parks, for instance). This would put them at the forefront of the ‘appropriation’ phase I talked about.
GAMMA RABBIT!
Urgh, blockquote fail.
That was supposed to be in response to this.
New troll is a little behind.
About the sagging pants appropriation… would this be an example of not-that-harmful appropriation, because it spreads the “criminality” of baggy pants out to include white youth as well (yay?), or is “not-that-harmful appropriation” just too much of a contradiction of terms? :p
No one objected to that (although I do wonder why we needed to know her gender in the first place – oh yes, that’s right, it’s so you could be appallingly sexist while trying to pretend that you definitely absolutely aren’t a sexist at all, nosireebob. Like when infants with chocolate smeared round their faces try to convince their parents that they’ve never even seen a cookie jar before).
People object to ‘women’ being referred to as ‘females’ when ‘women’ would suffice and they’re using ‘men’ as the opposite. Here’s a pro-tip, if you ever find yourself typing ‘females’, then you’re automatically wrong, since if you’re referring to a group that are all-female, it would be ‘female [X]s’.
Oh and to actually answer your question, ‘classmate’ would make you look like less of a pompous fuckweasel than ‘fellow female student’.
@Freemage
Fair enough. Back home the skating community was all about Alternative and Punk, and maybe a little Heavy Metal, so the two communities have always been separate in my mind
@Freemage/Shadow (etc.)
I don’t think you can entirely discount the convenience factor. Baggy trousers = easier to skate in = kids who want to dress like skaters wear baggy trousers. Rich and white doesn’t automatically mean ‘all style no substance’.
bagelsan: In some respects, it’s harmless enough–until it starts getting used as an example of how urban blacks refuse to fit in to mainstream white culture, and therefore it’s totes okay to discriminate against them in the job market.
Some cultural fusion is always going to happen, I know. But a lot of the times, when the language doesn’t translate well, things get dicey.
For instance, hiphop and rap lyrics are notorious for their misogyny. This is often ascribed to the black community. However, as I noted above, the driving market force behind the surge in hiphop and rap is the white suburban youth market. It’s kids in Naperville who are looking for videos where women get treated like sexy furniture. If you look at the stuff that’s mostly supported just in urban neighborhoods, and isn’t trying to ‘break out’ to appeal to the white market, it’s not perfect, but the ratio of misogynistic crap and gun-culture paeans to political and social protest songs shifts dramatically.
Oh, for an example of appropriation and how both appropriation and subsequent repudiation work to undermine the subculture, I recommend Natalie Reed’s excellent post from this past month: http://freethoughtblogs.com/nataliereed/2013/03/12/homophobia-white-supremacism-and-disco-sucks/ (*Sigh* I’m so sorry she felt like FtB was no longer the place for her.)
arrgghh! blockquote fail!
I think I get the appropriation-repudiation cycle thing better now. I was focusing on the first step, which is a bit debatable depending on the context/one’s views on cultural exchange, but one really needs to take into account the repudiation half of the cycle to see the most major problems with it. That seems to be where you get the “…and therefore black people are bad” half of the appropriation.
” Then I’ll retract that claim and say “motivate” instead of “compel”.
But how much of a difference does it make if other parts of your brain are involved, too? The brain as physical system goes from one state to the next and what if the processes in your frontal cortex result in wrong decisions? ”
Shorter Jaro: boring, goal-shifting bonerwhiner troll who thinks everyone else is as stupid as he is.
The brain as physical system goes from one state to the next
Your brain isn’t a bit that’s either on or off. It has millions of “states” it can be in, billions and billions if you want to count every permutation of neuron activity. How much difference does it make? All the difference.
Bagelsan: Exactly–it’s the cycle, not the initial appropriation. Done properly, in fact, such appropriation can be done respectfully. But it takes thought, effort and time, which most appropriators don’t bother with.
It would be a real shame if people didn’t feel like they could spew sexist crap…
This… makes no sense. Why are we tossing in more random Greek letters? I mean, at least Alpha and Beta made semi-sense, because it was first letter of the alphabet, second, in terms for first in rank and second, and omega was last, for all those wahwah guys the evil bitchez won’t sleep with who are surely last in rank (ignoring the fact that none of this alpha/beta stuff is real). EVEN IN THE SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE THING THIS IS REAL, IT DOESN”T MAKE SENSE
You use female to describe animals. Female bee, male bee, female wolf, male wolf, yadda yadda. When you use female and man, you are dehumanizing the woman.
How would you refer to a man who was a student?
Um… so because people have been even more sexist,racist,ablist,homophobic, whatever, in the past, people still can’t be that now? That doesn’t make any sense.
*sigh* Preparing to pull apart some of Jaro’s shit sandwich of a post…
…Wait, apparently not wanting people to be sexist is silencing them? This superskeeves me, though I can’t put my finger on why, but it seems like you take people who actually get silenced about their experiences and act like not wanting to hear sexism is the same thing? I mean, I’m probably rambling here, but I just bwuh… I guess with people throwing victim blaming and death threats (oh god I hope I remembered that one wrong) at the Jane Doe in Steubenville is trying to shut her up, try to tell women/ girls not to speak about their rapes, and you think telling Judgybitch she’s a shitstain of humanity is silencing? You are so full of lack of perspective I wonder how you have room for anything else in your body.
WHY BLOCKQUOTE MONSTER WHY? WHAT ELSE MUST I SACRIFICE TO KEEP YOU AT BAY?
Misogynists, of course.
Gotta run, but since Jaro is back, I just wanted to drop off something for him. Behold – a Kappa male.
Clifford: All I said was that there are two ways to look at this.
Reductionist, and wrong. MRA/MGTOW are not one thing. MRA/MGTOW are not the only ways of being, “not a feminist”. Feminism is not the only way to not be an MRA/MGTOW.
So, before you get to the (putative) arguments, you are hopelessly wrong.
Clearly I should get on that. I hope the feminist hive mind sends me a cat, or something, for my loyalty. XD
It’s true, feminists are born, not made. You can’t get someone to believe something different ever. That’s why I still believe that if I ate a watermelon seed it could grow a watermelon in my stomach and why everyone still believes the world is flat, despite vast amounts of empirical data that says otherwise. /sarcasm
I can only conclude that Jaro has such a very dim view of humanity because Jaro is either an extremely hard-headed or an extremely young person (or both) for whom learning is such a new thing zie assumes learning is this hugely insurmountable thing that rarely ever happens for other people as well. Pro tip: most people in this world are perfectly capable of learning, unlearning and relearning shit. That is a huge part of learning how to live in this world.
As for determining whether something is wrong or not, please, do you really think this is going to be the first time any of us has heard that what’s right and wrong can be subjective? Do you really think you’re going to blow any minds with that philosophizing? Not that you’re mentioning that theory for any reason other than to try to say misogyny is totally honky dory. Saying that hateful things like the MRM are only subjectively wrong is disingenuous in the extreme. I can recognize that morality can be subjective while still acknowledging that the vast majority of MRA websites push an extremely hateful message, which is harmful to everyone, not just the women who most of their ire is directed at.
LBT:
RE: Clifford
Ah, Voltaire. Wonder how many trolls he got in his time…
Actually it wasn’t Voltaire. It was a hagiographer of his, who manufactured the sentiment to show what a swell guy Voltaire was.
Clifford:
Are you that stupid? The suggestion is that you go and find someplace to make a valiant (and final) stand for peoples’ right to disagree with you. You get to choose the time, the place, the action.
If there is violene, you are seeking it out (in keeping with the platitude you pretend is your sincere belief: self-valorsation at it’s most transparent).
“The subjects were 12 primates: 4 chimpanzees, 4 humans and 4 bonobos. There were two males and two females in each group”
Male and female used as nouns; oh the horror and Gramatically INCORRECT. How should it be rewritten?
Argenti: Now, if anyone has hints how to inquire with someone as to whether they’d be interested, with a whole series of oddities (please tell me how many kinky poly okay-with-gender-meh/are-genderqueer people there are? Because I kinda suspect the odds of finding another one who isn’t the not-an-ex remotely resemble the odds of asteroid strikes…and, oh yeah, I’m crazy and nobody wants to date crazy)
If you were in SF I could introduce you to some, who could then vouch for you to others. I could probably find connections in NYC.
Talacris, how long did you spend scouring the net for that one and only possible case? While also overlooking using female (to refer to a woman) and man in the same sentence?
The ONLY two places I’ve seen that are acceptable to refer to women as female is the military and in medical practice. And you’ll note that when they use female to refer to women, they ALSO use the adjective male to refer to men.
Short answer: women aren’t bonobos, dipshit.
@talcaris
people =! animals (or I guess they do, depending on point of view, but that’s not the debate here.) When you use men instead of males for human men and females for human women it is DEHUMANISING! Note how it was just used with primates where you quoted from, and also note how you wouldn’t know a context clue if it was dancing around in the air screaming ‘I am a context clue’.
lol Pretty much my reaction!
Re: the baggy pants thing, that makes way more sense than the horrific “prison bitch, tee hee” theory. (Note: I fucking hate that shit.)
Oh, get over yourself. Obviously that is OK, and obviously that’s not what people are talking about. People try and simplify it to the deliberately obtuse as “don’t use it as a noun” but English in particular has a million exceptions even if you’re going to be incredibly literal.
It is fucking embarrassingly plain that the problem is calling women “females” when you would call men “men” (or not mention their sex at all, as default). You all just play stupid and it’s painful.
It talcaris the boringest troll ever? Because I didn’t even notice he posted until other people responded to him.
I mean, I kind of read the comment, but my brain was just like “Whatever” and skimmed over it.
Haha. I have to mention about people above that the quote is referring to 4 humans as male and female. In a totally appropriate context. *rolls eyes*
Funnily enough, before I’d really observed the use of female online I had a coworker that used it. It weirded me the fuck out. He was such an interesting example of a young man: we spent a lot of time talking about relationships, he wasn’t really misogynistic but trying to stop him thinking entirely in stereotypes (that were making him really happy!) was incredibly hard.
Oops. *unhappy.
I don’t need to take Jaro seriously, because he called the Daily Mail reputable, and that’s real.
But this. THIS SHIT:
Didn’t you ever think that some people are so heinous they SHOULD be silenced? If JB and her ilk had to go underground, too bad, so sad.
Not every view is deserving of airtime. Once you get that through your thick skull, you’ll be OK.
And don’t turn what I said into 1st Amendment wank, Jaro, because you will be wrong.
Oo, I’d been ignoring him again, but DAMN RIGHT we want to silence that shit. If the best we can do is fuckheads feeling they are not entitled to air their disgusting views lest they be ostracised, it’s good enough.
The cynical observer that is me, has noted that opinions like Bitchy’s usually only turn around when they (or someone REALLY close to them) experiences exactly the bullshit they were spewing.
I’m fairly certain that Bitchy might stop to think long and hard if her sister or daughter were raped. Its better than never changing, never thinking it through and ultimately it will be Bitchy that has to live with herself and the way she thinks and the shame. And that, is an optimistic viewpoint. Sadly.
More proof that the US is a very unsettling place to live:
http://m.magicvalley.com/news/local/state-investigates-complaint-about-dietrich-science-teacher-s-human-reproduction/article_47dec69a-963f-11e2-a856-001a4bcf887a.html
Some of it sounds a little questionable, but showing an inconvient truth is not “advocating” for a political candidate.
Racist and sexist dickwads are bad and should feel bad, and I am completely fine with shaming them into silence even if it doesn’t change their minds.
I am so behind on the comments. Can everyone please stop commenting until tomorrow so that I can catch up? :D
It’s like Jaro’s never changed hir mind about something or had an idea developed or matured.
Once upon a time I was a “pro-life” Catholic with more conservative leanings. Clearly I’ve only been SILENCED into becoming a pro-choice atheist liberal hippie. It wasn’t at all a conscious choice based on learning to reassess information I gleaned from others.
The idea that people cannot grow in their beliefs, or grow beyond harmful ones takes a really really sad view of life in general I think. It’s basically assuming that people are incapable of learning which is patent bullshit. Yes, some people have a harder time than others, particularly about certain subjects, but it’s obviously not impossible.
Sorry, I should have said “asshats” instead of “dickwads.” I try not to use gendered insults
Also, I really want David to illustrate a post with this image.
“Once upon a time I was a “pro-life”
CatholicBaptist with more conservative leanings. Clearly I’ve only been SILENCED into becoming a pro-choice atheist/pagan liberal hippie. It wasn’t at all a conscious choice based on learning to reassess information I gleaned from others.”You too huh?!
Yes I’m ignoring Jaro, I’m already 2 Ativan into today and don’t feel like needing a third (got my SSI hearing notice earlier, they didn’t update my file with the info I sent in January, I need a lawyer and to send them the same shit all over again, I swear to all the gods they employ the biggest idiots they can find)
Pecunium — I appreciate the offer but your knowledge of local~ lawyers would be more helpful at present.
Irony really dies online, I’ll never learn. But Cassandra, I can also make a true Bavarian cream, can you do that? (admittedly my most advanced dessert… ;-) ) oh, I forgot, you’re supposed to be plonked.
The fuck? Bavarian Creamn is basic. Curry is harder. Now, if you were making a Buche de Noël, ora Napoleon, or a Linzer Torte, or a Streudel… you know, things that are hard, you might have a gotcha there; but no, all you have is proof that you can’t actually give up your fascinatin with Cassandra; thought is a bit ironic.
I’m going for a cultural argument. Except for the early modern age in Europe (A) and contemporary Western culture (B), it was always unequivocally accepted that men very often want to have sex with women who don’t want to have sex with them and not the other way around….
This is, of course, false. For much of history women were seen as insatiable (this was, for example the Greek and Roman attitude).
<i Because comedy is famous for in no way reflecting the culture of the time.
Now, do I really need to refute this argument? Ok, one hint: what’s perceived as comical isn’t often realistic.
Um… so we can add a lack of comprehension of the role of the tragic and comedic arts in Athenian poltics; and that comedy was a mirror held to nature. It was a mirror to the culture, with aspects seen as normal married to things which weren’t. The “unnatural” aspect of Lysistrata was 1: the idea that women had serious interest in politics and 2: would be able to organise such a resistance.
That they were unable to pull it off was the “real world” intruding to the farce.
We can, however, move to Ireland, and, “The War of the Dun Cow” where a queen, in competition with her husband over who had the greater wealth (in subjects, since “fealty” was not inherently assumed; and people would pledge it to whomever they liked, king or queen), and was bargaining for the use of the aforementioned Dun Cow (whuch was the only thing in Ireland pledged to neither of them; and they were evenly matched), said she would seal the bargain by, “covering you with my happy thighs”.
In Europe Eve’s Wantoness (and the tale of Lilith) were seen as proof of the licentious nature of women. The number of accusations, against women who were being politically active, of various types of sexual misconduct (esp. common in the Merovingian era, when women had various ways to lay hands on the levers of power) show that the idea of “men active/women passive” wasn’t established yet.
I’m still unimpressed, what about what transitioning trans* people tell us about their libido? MTF: down. FTM: up (on average)
You stupid fuckwit. I know this moving of the goalposts wasn’t a careless mistake (though I am sure you having it pointed out won’t damage you ego). We weren’t talking about your idea of the essential nature of male/female libido. What you said was, I’m going for a cultural argument.,and the response you just ducked was evidence for cultural beliefs.
But to be honest, I thought that she as a woman would be useful for cooking. Probably you’re right, that’s just a stereotype. Just have a look at modern Western women, they are even too fussy to dismantle a chicken.
And you say you aren’t sexist. Blaming that on women; when it seems that, were you being non-sexist; the blame for such a thing would have to be evenly apportioned, with men (like yourself) who think they are too good to take a chicken apart, and insist that women do their cooking.
pillowinhell: Reading that story, the most aggravating thing is that there were a few items on the list which arguably could be grounds for a reprimand (most notably, the allegation of showing a student’s file to someone not entitled to see it–those rules exist for a reason). But they got mixed in with a bunch of horseshit that makes the whole thing almost impossible to evaluate fairly.
Side-note: It pleases me that the program that puts little red lines under words it doesn’t recognize when I’m typing in this box has no objections to ‘horseshit’.
Fixed!
Same went for ripped jeans. What kills me is that I have to pay more for jeans with holes in them than a pair without.
The Oysterband:
“Here comes the Flood”
I can’t get jeans that really fit. I am too tall/not proportioned right for “asian” jeans, and to small for wester jeans. So I wear, “tactical” pants; which have lots of pockets, and are possessed of some elastic in the waistband, which means the 28′ waists are really 27-29, and so get small enough.
I am pretty much a textbook ectomorph; long, lean, tolerably toned,and possessed of very little body fat.
Hugs, Argenti. It must be “deal with idiots day.” I wish someone had told me and an ativan would have been nice. ;)
Time for the cMRA (chimpanzee MRA)then??