Manosphere misogynists: Perpetually angry that women can say no?
Women: Not obliged to say “yes.”
I‘m beginning to wonder if every single complaint from manosphere misogynists comes back to their rage at the fact that women get to decide who can have sex with them. Take the following comment from MGTOWforums.com. The ostensible topic of conversation? A study reporting that women tend to feel more stressed than men at work. Watch how deftly MGTOWforums “senior member” 7 Deadly Sins turns the topic from “women in the workplace” to “my sad penis.”
They wanted to work so now they’re working. Oh work is too hard and stressing you out? Too bad. You wanted to be career whores, right ? Enjoy. If you give women what they ask for, they still want more. Who cares if they’re stressed out? They can always get dicked down and take some of the edge off. Men can’t get sex whenever they “feel” like it. Nobody cares what you whores think or feel any more.
Damn. That’s some pretty intense boner rage there, dude.
Posted on March 25, 2013, in antifeminism, boner rage, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, misogyny, oppressed men, penises, whores, women shouldn't work and tagged mgtow, misogyny. Bookmark the permalink. 1,147 Comments.
*teleports an Ativan to hellkell* pretty sure it’s only illegal to share actual drugs, virtual ones should be safe! And thanks.
Well it sure isn’t going to be bMRA as bonobos get plenty! Huh, they are sorta matriarchal though, so maybe they would have MRAs?
Wait, did talacaris just manage to say something funny?
@kittehs
what cute kitties <3
Yes, I’ve totally been silenced into going from agnostic-atheist to spirit-channelling, earth-Spirit-commuting blogger and sometime cat medium.
cMRAs?
How could one tell the difference between one lot of screaming poo-flingers and the other?
I probably should have used sarcasm tags.
@ Fade
That’s how I read his comments too, as background noise.
gelar – no, the sarcasm was clear. :)
@gelar
I assumed you were mocking him, so it worked for me. Though I suppose sarcasm tags always help clarify.
Two things we need here:
sarcasm code (though that’d probably create a Sarcasm Monster)
the kitty smiley that’s in the forums but doesn’t work here WHY WORDPRESS WHY
Forumkitty always looks like Forumbunny to me.
Either is good! :)
I think it would. can’t we just use /sarcasm. Though I suppose sometimes that sounds more awkward, I just don’t want another monster chasing me XD
you guys have a kitty smiley in the forums! *envy*
It’s important to keep one’s priorities straight. Of course, because they get laid all the time there is no need for bMRAs.
For example let’s take our fellow blogger JudgyBitch, she thinks what happened in Steubenville isn’t a big deal and that the punishment for the two guys is excessive (also check out the posts “Why don’t we have a Dumb F*cking Wh*re Registry? Now that would be justice.” and “You weren’t raped. You’re a wh*re. Join the club.” which add several new interesting aspects to the discussion…).
Now how do you change her attitudes?
No… you won’t proceed like if she were wrong about the Monty Hall Problem! You’ll call her out and if that doesn’t help, you’ll mock her, then shame her, paint her as the “bigot she is” and bash her until she keeps quiet.
Bash her until she keeps quiet?
Bring it.
Please do.
I’d love to see you try.
@marie & fade*
Acually the use of female here is gramatically correct since he’s trying to specify the gender of the student. “woman student” doesn’t work because you’re using two nouns together, as opposed to “female/male student”, which is adjective+noun. Of course, his not so subtle reason to specify the gender of his classmate, OTOH, just reeks with his sexist agenda
*how often do you get the chance to address twins, that you’ve never met, at the same time. Ahhh Manboobz, you are the jewel of the interwebz
@shadow
That makes sense. Thanks for explaining :) I just tend to…ignore grammar. Like, a lot.
@Marie, it’s my understanding that, if you send David a request via email (click the big head!!), he can grant you access to the forum. I don’t actually participate there anymore.
@viscaria
Thanks for info :) Maybe I’ll try when I want to, I’d like to, but I don’t think I have much time atm. XD This is taking up my free internet time…that and really poor time management.
For example let’s take our fellow blogger JudgyBitch, she thinks what happened in Steubenville isn’t a big deal and that the punishment for the two guys is excessive (also check out the posts “Why don’t we have a Dumb F*cking Wh*re Registry? Now that would be justice.” and “You weren’t raped. You’re a wh*re. Join the club.” which add several new interesting aspects to the discussion…).
Now how do you change her attitudes?
Oh… the tone argument. Fuck that noise.
Here’s the deal… we tried taking her at face value. Logic, reasoned arguments, mannered responses to her vitriol. As you may imagine it didn’t work.
Being tolerably well versed in these sorts of things I didn’t expect them to work, but I did it anyway. But there comes a point where you realise that the judgybitches of the world don’t have open minds (and yes, I know that you will level the same charge at us. All I can say is I’ve seen people here come to new understandings of things, so my experience says your assertion is invalid. I know your mileage varies. It’s why, in a couple of weeks (at most) you will almost certainly not be here. It’s hard to maintain delusions in the face of evidence. One can maintain cognitive dissonance, but it’s hard when the dissonance has to be rectified, again and again and again and again).
When that moment comes why bother treating them as honest actors? At that point treating them as such validates their opinions more than giving them the bum’s rush does. It gives the veneer of respectability to their inanity, their dishonesty and the Fountains of Wrong which cascades from their ever busy fingers.
If they leave in a huff, to tell people how mean we were… well they were going to crow anyway; that ship sails when they show up. Other people, however, might see the treatment of their arguments as completely serious, and meriting attention, as some hint of actual merit.
Which is wrong, and it would be foolish to let that linger. So some of us (quite rightly) jump on that shit the moment it shows its crappy head.
Which is what happened to you. You aren’t being treated unkindly. You are, actually, getting better than you deserve; because some people here enjoy taking apart shitty logic, some enjoy making sure the crowd at large (the lurker whom we know to exist) has ammunition to take away to the other parts of the world/internet they inhabit (that, BTW, is some of the, “real meaning to life” you dismissed earlier), and some enjoy backhanding the stupid when it shows up.
Since not everyone does the latter (or at least not immediately) you were spared the sort of treatment Mr. Al, Virgil, NWO, Meller, et al. get. If you want to join that company you have to work at it. I don’t think you have the chops. That is, in its way, a compliment. If I am wrong, well stupid is as stupid does.
“Wrong” convictions that are challenged in this way don’t disappear, they only become hidden and may find other ways to express themselves, which of course you will want to suppress, too.
Nope. I don’t care what people think. I care what they do. Shame is a useful thing; when someone does something wrong. Michael Crook, or whatever his name is, who was tweeting stupid shit about Stuebenville made his twitter feed private. I’m ok with that. He was a shitheel.
The thing is, and this is the hard part, proportion matters too. No one targeted his job, or told his employer to fire him or be put out of business. He got a spanking, and he went to his room. Nothing will stop him from making his twitter public again (I suspect he could do it now, but by May Day he won’t have any worries). Then he only has to worry about stepping on his dick again.
Because letting people make public displays of sexism/racism/homophobia, etc. perpetuates it.
You seem to be fine with that.
I’m not.
re changing opinions. I used to be a moderately anti-abortion person. I still have some personal reservations about it; but I have been persuaded my opinions on the matter are, practically, irrelevant. It’s not my body, so I don’t have any moral claim to an effecting opinion.
And it’s not that I’ve, “repressed” it. I’ve been convinced. It is what I believe.
…
What the fuck did I just read?
That sounded like a 13 year old pretending to be a Star Trek villain.
Also how is making it illegal to act or speak in certain ways that are discriminatory attempting to impose beliefs on anyone? oh right, trollboy believes anything that disagrees with him is silence and oppression, just like all MRAs.
drst: I forgot all about that “You cannot win” faux super villain talk. What a maroon.
I wonder if his fake moustache falls off when he tries to twirl it.
What the hell blockquote monster?! Whyfore u not ever let me quote rite?
It’s those oatmeal and raisin cookies historophilia was sneaking to it (I SAW YOU DO NOT DENY IT) while she was baking ‘em. Got it all frisky.
man… I missed another Pelltown?
Sigh… if I am here for the next one (esp. if he bring Evolution into it) I am prepared.
Pecunium, did you invent “Pelltdown”? Argenti was asking yest and I couldn’t remember. I had a feeling you had, with the bonus play on “Piltdown” in it.
Aw, Judgybitch is here and trying to act tough. Careful, cupcake, you might lose your Special Snowflake crown or break a nail.
Twit.
Has she got over her snit at missing out on Troll of the Year despite all the pleading?
Pity she won’t post more. Like striking gold for me.
:D
JudgyBitch can dish it…
Oh I know, I read her blog for my sins. And my Lecturer. Mostly my sins.
Oh judgy-snookums… duz oo has a sad?
It’s not like you’ve managed to stay in the ring here. You come in, make a stink, get your ass handed to you on a plate, carry it home, and rant about how stupid and vile we are to your cheering section.
If that’s your A-Game, you suck. If it’s not your A-Game, you suck even more; because coming here ought to be where you shine. This is your chance to make converts, if you’re just phoning it in, that’s shitty testimony. It’s hiding your light under a bushel, burying the coins rather than putting them to work.
God will not be pleased when he puts you in the balance (though if I were you, I’d worry more about sheep and goats, and the casting into the outer darkness).
God will not be pleased when he puts you in the balance (though if I were you, I’d worry more about sheep and goats, and the casting into the outer darkness).
Geez, she doesn’t have to wait for God to deem her a failure. I can do that for free. No worshiping required.
Kitteh’s, I don’t recall who made that name, but I’ve been waiting to make a play on the Piltdown Man (the sad thing is that for a constructed creature, meant to show the best of the manly traits, the Pelltown Man is so poorly artificed it can’t fool anyone).
Bagelsan: I think she’s a failure too, at what she does, and at what she wants to do.
But she claims to answer to a Higher Power, and looking at His Rule Book, she’s not putting out the required efforts; and seems to be actively doing it wrong.
Ha ha, JudgyBitch is playing tough on the Internet, but fails at comprehension. Darlin’, you do realize that was a troll’s comment; in other words, one of your own.
They are so astoundingly dense, those AVfMers.
bait for JudgyBitch: does premarital sex cause men to shoot up schools? GO.
cMRAs?
How could one tell the difference between one lot of screaming poo-flingers and the other?
One eat their young, the others are chimps.
Yep. Dense, pathetic and utterly convinced that the men will do for them. Oblivious of the fact they are a means to a laughable end.
Judgybitch gets to feel safe in an unsafe world, because she knows she’s the Right Kind of Woman that bad things don’t happen to. And all she had to do was throw a few raped girls and women under the bus to get there. Well done you.
/goes to bed in disgust
and this comment got lost in my catching up.
I wrote “fellow female student”… what should I write instead? I refuse to use “fellow woman student”.
Are you telling us you are a woman?
No? Then we have an order of operations problem here (English Grammar being, largely a positional one). Fellow modifies both female and student.
You could have said, “I was helping a woman; a fellow student,” and avoided both problems.
But if you choose to use, “female”, you need to use “male”.
The Right Kind of Women need to realise they are just like the rest of us..They are us. The feminists, the sluts, the queers, the housewives, the working women. None of us are exempt. The men aren’t exempt either, not by a long shot. But their twisted logic makes it a game, us versus you and they are only hurting their own cause in the end.
Damn my bile fascination that kept me from going to sleep. I haven’t actually gone to AVfM in months and I thought I would take a look at JB’s articles for… some reason, I don’t know. On her “You weren’t raped. Join the club” article there is the following comment:
That sure makes me trust the police even less than I already did.
Cannonball, I fear their “cause” is the status quo, aka injustice, suffering, and un-freedom*, which is why they believe so strongly that they are helping their own cause by being asshats in many forums.
0_0
*What? That’s a word.
Oh Viscaria, I am so sorry you read that right before trying to go to sleep. Would a capybara who cares for abandoned puppies help you wash the taste of that out of your brain?
@ cloudiah | Unfortunately, knowing this doesn’t make me less ragey! It’s like one of those magic-eye pictures. You see it so clearly and you are getting grumpy waiting for them to catch up.
The only cure for ragey is animal videos. ;-)
Well that might just be the best advice!
Animals that raise other animal babies are the best! I’m totally alright though, just rolling my eyes at my choice. Soft comfy bed? Naw. How about some rape apologism!
Instead here are some kitty snuggles:
Aw, my kitties do that. They’re sisters. I’ve always had pairs of cats, but I’ve never had cats who really loved each other like that.
Here’s another cute picture.
@Viscaria
Sorry you ran across that. The sad fact is that hateful people hate. All of us suffer from confirmation bias to some degree, but I was genuinely surprised by how police officers who happened to be bigoted could hang on to their hateful beliefs despite contrary evidence.
I was a cop for 5 years and the above idiot is lying or his hate makes him awful at his job. Either way, he is a horror of a human being.
@WeeBoy
I meant to say this much earlier…
I am sorry those cops treated your trans friend so poorly. There is so much prejudice about trans people: I can honestly say everything the senior police officers ‘taught’ me in the 1980s me was wrong. It is sad that things don’t sound much improved. Maybe things are better here in Los Angeles compared to NZ, but I honestly don’t know.
I really must remember your remark the other day about “always swallow the tea before reading the next comment”.
Talacaris can be almost funny when he drops the intellectually dishonest trolling. (and his grammar-trolling here was a complete and utter failure, of course) In fact, he can be almost not boring.
But he doesn’t care enough about things like truth and justice to ever stop being boring.
A lot like JudgyBitch in that way.
An antidote to their boringness. http://www.xojane.com/family/what-my-mother-taught-me-about-the-eff-words-feminism-and-fear
Please pay attention to me! Please please please! I’m still relevant, I promise! *flails*
It’s really rather pathetic, she’s trying to stir up traffic for her site by negging people here, but it’s barely even a proper neg.
I’m personally rather dubious of the idea that mocking people actually does silence them (see also, US politicians wanking on major news networks about “legitimate rape” and then doubling down on that bullshit when there was righteous outrage over that) mostly I’m just of the opinion that mocking the horrible things horrible people say at least makes their odious word-vomit have entertainment value. Plus, it’s not like the trolls don’t make it easy for us.
@Argenti
I know a few people in the Boston area matching that description. Or you could go to Diesel in Somerville (especially when the kinky or poly groups are meeting there). Davis Square is like Mecca for queer kinky poly folks.
Frankly, I’m “the right kind of woman” when I keep my mouth shut; young, white, cis, feminine-presenting, upper-middle class, American, in a monogamous relationship — I’m probably “righter” than JudgyBitch in a lot of wayts. Do I think that trumps reality, or keeps me safe no matter what? Fuck no. And does that mean I should throw other women (who by choice or chance are not “right”) under the bus? FUCK NO.
If you’re privileged, you should use that to help those who are less privileged; this means talking about racism, this means going to slut walks, this means not calling people “whores” or “tr*nnies” and calling out those who do. I’m not top of the heap but I’m up in that general vicinity, and that means I often have the social power to say “hey, here’s the thing” and be listened to (or at least tolerated.) Even if it’s just putting pressure on the men in my life not to be assholes, even if it’s just insisting that they respect my delicate sensibilities and stop saying X, that’s more than a lot of people have.
Yep. This is why I hate the “you can’t change people” nonsense. I’m living proof that you can. And I’m not convinced that silencing people (oh noes!) won’t change their minds anyway. Yeah, for a very long time growing up we had to just shut my dad up when he’d say racist shit, but finally he seems to be getting WHY we weren’t down with his occasional racist snarks. He’s nearly 70. He’s not perfect, but he’s changed, most certainly for the better.
I remember being insecure about bringing my first husband to meet my father back in the mid-1980s. Dad was a cradle Catholic WWII veteran, and Manuel was a Chinese-Panamanian interior designer. I was surprised at how well they got along, until my younger sister pointed out, “This is his last chance to get a Catholic son-in-law; he’s not going to screw it up.” After what my older siblings had put him through, Manuel looked really good. I sometimes look back and think that, if it hadn’t been for the gayness, I could have wound up as one of the red-caped loons in Tradition,Family, Property. So glad for the gayness.
@Bagelson: The distinction between ethics and values on the one side and factual beliefs on the other is very important, don’t ignore that
Factual beliefs can be changed by rational arguments, which means communication, engaging in a collective search for truth. This will only become an imposition of beliefs if you intentionally deceive, like by using false evidence.
Shaming others to articulate beliefs is imposition of beliefs and an especially pernicious variant of it, I might add, because you’ll blind yourself and others to rational counterarguments. It will not just silence ignorant, stupid grandpa, it will also force troll’s remorse in Nobel Laureates (James Watson) or John Bates Clark Medalists (Larry Summers).
Average human Sheepie has neither the knowledge nor the resources to test claims about complex matters. Ze depends on others, on a free exchange of ideas. So the real question is, when shaming is efficient, how do we know it really made Sheepie recognize it’s mistakes (that ze feels that way doesn’t prove anything, might be just an illusion!) instead of just cutting Sheepie off from the truth and misleading zir?
Now to values and ethics. I grudgingly must admit, that two types of rational arguments are possible here:
(1) Questioning consistency (e. g. you can present ethical dilemmas)
(2) Questioning definitions and how they are applied (like if you adopt “don’t do to other humans what you don’t want other humans do to you” the question “are women human?” becomes important)
But since moral nihilism is true, any other argument about ethics is imposition of beliefs, it can only amount to emotional bullying.
Experiences of course influences ethical views and values, but you can’t force adults to make those, that would only breed anger and resistance. Like buyers of Findus 100% beef 100% horse lasagna weren’t happy for the opportunity to reconsider their attitudes about eating Horsey.
And so it still stands that social norms or laws can’t make adults change their values and ethical views, if they were not already vulnerable by criticism through (1) & (2), it will just manage to silence them – in those cases we’re not dealing with sheep but with donkeys.
Now when I say I’m a misogynist it’s just a fundamental value I’ve adopted, maybe it was caused by my experiences with women (allegorical portrayal) but that doesn’t matter. It’s not irrational or inconsistent.
Sure, sure, it’s still in one of these states at any moment. We’ve heard a lot about responsibility, control and free will here. I just wonder why complexity should magically make the brain behave radically different than ordinary matter, so that we can attribute a concept of causation to it that is completely unknown to physics. The only way that would work would be by postulating holistic natural laws… but holism has quite a bad track record (and now don’t tell me thermodynamics is a holistic theory).
@Marie
Nope, that really happened. Where is your God now?
IIRC the law doesn’t consider “victim was drunk” as a mitigating factor… why isn’t that enough? In a sense that’s already a discrimination of a minority ethical position. Why do we still want to silence JudgyBitch (as long as she doesn’t start to act on those convictions, like this British “cutie pie”) why can’t we just negotiate a truce with her (like “the law won’t change, but feel free to espouse your ethical views”), behind which wholesome mutual contempt can flourish?
Well, I was in a deep depression when I imagined how the next generation might end up living in what liberal would consider their utopia. John Gray with his book “Straw Dogs” gave me new hopes. He convincingly argued that it’s far more likely that they’ll end up as genetically modified slaves of some run-of-the-mill dictator.
@Pecunium:
– To make a true Bavarian Cream you have to make a Creme Anglaise first, and this is a bit tricky (especially without a thermometer), you want it well thickened but if it gets too hot it will curdle and all is lost :-( also when you lighten it up with whipped cream you want it well mixed but you don’t want it to collapse. I’ve got a lot of practice making it, also with the fruit based variants, but when I made it the first time it was one of the few challenging recipes (not that it’s so much work, though)…
– I already made a Linzer Torte, what’s so difficult about it?
– Traditional streudel ZOMG waaaaaaaay to much work, I’m not going to do that… (especially if used to feed women, pseudo-streudels made with pre-made puff pastry should suffice…)
– Buche de Noël… I made other Genoise based cakes… but I admit that seems difficult… maybe I’ll try it someday…
– Napoleon aka Mille-Feuille: so many easy variants with pre-made puff pastry
Now I just was talking about desserts and now we’re talking talking about libido… that feels so wrong…
But I don’t understand why you’re so upset, what’s so bad about moving the goalposts, somehow people here are especially paranoid about this “fallacy”… Is the problem that I don’t acknowledge the refutation (I acknowledge it, I’ll reconsider my position, there was too much stuff I’ve never heard about)? Or is it generally not allowed to concede something?
@Fade:
I meant the following (this is mainly about factual beliefs):
If drst really believes (I’d like to see the evidence because superficial change in behavior doesn’t prove anything) that shaming certain beliefs made people change their minds in a way they would subjectively describe just as an “encouragement to think”, why assume something very different went on, when things changed to the worse, like when we went from racism to ((racism²)²)²?
And since I’ve already got a fool’s license, I’m going to drop a Godwin now: Now guess what is the last line spoken in “Hitlerjunge Quex”?
“It’s in our Germany. You know, you really ought to give that some thought.“.
Oh, the irony!
@ostara321
Actually my claim is much more nuanced.
Wake up sheeple, Jaro has dropped some truth!
Anyone who reads the Daily Fail and uses “sheeple” is not someone I have to take seriously.
Bzzzzt, you fail, Jaro. NEXT!
How cute, he wants us to call a truce with the likes of Judgybitch. Not gonna happen, I have no reason to settle with those who would wish me active harm.
Get fucked.
Now when I say I’m a misogynist it’s just a fundamental value I’ve adopted, maybe it was caused by my experiences with women (allegorical portrayal) but that doesn’t matter. It’s not irrational or inconsistent.
Really? What’s your “rationale” for hating women? And as for consistency, how do you reconcile your hatred of women with your dependency on them for so many things in life? Furthermore, when you say misogyny is a “fundamental value”, do you believe you would be a fundamentally different person if you, say, didn’t hate women? Is that really an integral part of your identity, hating someone?
I just wonder why complexity should magically make the brain behave radically different than ordinary matter, so that we can attribute a concept of causation to it that is completely unknown to physics.
Bullshit. Have you heard of emergent properties?