How to Hate and Envy Every Single Person in the World, PUAhate edition

Some guys get all the chicks

Some guys get all the chicks

The regulars at – we’ve met them before — are a strange and bitter bunch. Most seem to be self-loathing so-called “incels” who blame their lack of romantic and sexual success on their average or below-average looks. Rejecting the basic premise of the pickup artist crowd – that average guys can transform themselves into suave lotharios by mastering manipulative pickup formulas – the PUAhate regulars tend to be true believers in what they somewhat pretentiously call “looks theory,” the odd and obviously untrue notion that women only date men with “male model” looks.

As one PUAhater put it recently:

PUA makes you think that all your problems are because of your personality/behaviour – i.e. things you can control. So when you keep failing, it means that YOU are fucking up and doing things wrong

the reality is that many of us just lost the genetic lottery. we are ugly, the wrong race, the wrong height etc, and that fucked us up. there is NOTHING we can do about it

So, naturally, the PUAhaters spend a lot of their time jealous of tall, good-looking men for their supposed monopoly on the women of the world — whom they also hate.

But the strange thing is that the PUAhaters pretty much hate everyone else as well. They get angry when guys they consider ugly score “hot chicks.” They get angry when guys who are good-looking but not male models get attention from “really hot girls.” And so on, and so on, and so on.

Indeed, many of the regulars seem to walk around in a perpetual state of rage, angry at each and every man who’s managed to pair up with a woman, not to mention the women as well.

One regular recently described his “day from hell” to his comrades:

To start the day I saw a couple where it was an average White guy with an OBESE Asian girl. They were walking around acting like they were trying to prove shit. LMAO. I wanted to kick the guy in the fucking nuts for dating that landwhale. If you’re going to use the racial advantage, at least date a girl who is under 300lbs. Later I go to the gym and see the same tall guys I usually do. Even if I had a good face, how the fuck do you compete with guys who are fucking 6’4”?

Then at the gym there’s this good looking White guy there talking to this Asian dude about how Asian girls are easy and how they approach him. To make things worse after that these fucking frat douchebags come in with their girlfriends to show off . Then to cap off the day a girl I used to know from freshman year walks right past me without even saying anything. I used to fucking live next door to this bitch and now she doesn’t even say anything and acts like a pretentious cunt. She’s an Indian girl dating a White dude lmao. Days like today make you wonder why you even still try in the first place.

Of course, as I’ve mentioned before, most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own, at least judging from the pictures of themselves they sometimes post to the site, which reveal them to be mostly average-looking guys, with some of the regulars even quite conventionally handsome.

But evidently they would rather believe that they have “lost the genetic lottery” rather than face a more obvious explanation for why the girls don’t like them: because they’re shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore. (And some are even creepier than this, like this pedophile – sorry, ephebophile – who’s angry at me personally because unlike him I don’t chase after 15-year-olds. Link NSFW.)

The PUAhaters often talk about getting surgeries to “correct” their supposed genetic flaws. They would do far better to spend that money on therapy.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon,, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on March 19, 2013, in creepy, disgusting women, drama kings, entitled babies, evil fat fatties, incel, irony alert, misogyny, pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles, PUA, racism and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink. 1,520 Comments.

  1. Lol this was too easy! Last time I had it short I kept getting told I looked like Ryder in Girl, Interrupted. (Read the book!)

    But when it grew out even a little it got long enough I’m afraid I’d have a Bieber cut…maybe I’m just being a combo of excessively anti-Beiber, and attached to my hair despite my complaints about it.

    In totally random things, my biggest clown loach is falling over backwards trying to examine the underside of a leaf. Fish are silly!

  2. Argenti, I don’t think that Ryder-ish cut would grow out as Bieber-ish. As long as you don’t style it that way, anyway. :-)

  3. Best. Parent. Ever.

    [Note: Not really best parent ever.]

  4. 24 comments to go for 1,500. (23 after this one)

    So, that Rufus Sewell! I’m not sure I buy him as a good guy. Even as the very morally muddled Zen, whose biggest problem in a sea of corruption is that no matter how hard he tries he just can’t manage to be corrupt enough to fit in. Because there is something about his eyes, something very canny, almost lizard-like. He plays a villain like almost nobody else can.

    It’s like Colin Farrell. You can’t trust him as a good guy, because you just KNOW that behind those eyes he’s thinking about tearing your head off. Channel that into a meaty villain role–who else loved the Fright Night remake?

    Also, I saw the Croods. It was surprisingly feminist.

  5. The only things I’ve seen Rufus Sewell in are Knight’s Tale and Dark City, where he was villain and hero, respectively.

    Dark City was such an odd movie I’m not sure it’s a good example of him heroing, but there is a moment after he has obtained the macguffin and can take the villains on on their own terms when he looks right down the camera and you do get a sense that he’s capable of cruelty.

    So I started watching Midsomer Murders while feeding my children. I’m not done with the first episode yet, but it’s kind of a doozy. I’m not sure I like DS Troy, he’s not quite as bad as the DS and the other DC in The Last Detective (who are total dicks) but he used the term “arse bandits” without irony. ಠ__ಠ

    And the undertaker has a large gaydar profile AND ALSO he’s a despicable blackmailer so I feel like people can take agin him from the beginning (because he’s gay) and then along comes the blackmail and gives people an out for disliking him.

  6. Sewell was also the Large Ham villain in the second Zorro movie, which was eighteen miles of fail.

    And, y’know, it’s one thing to include gay villains. That’s fine, yeah, gay people can be just as bad as straight.

    When the only gay characters you have are villains? (I’m looking at you, Sherlock!) Um, maybe some gay characters who AREN’T the epitome of evil? Just to break things up?

  7. Cloudiah — maybe? Idk, I might just be wary of it taking another 5 years to grow out if I change my mind!

    Falconer — baby crane! Well sorta, cute though.

    Gay maybe villains? Captain Jack, the sometimes good guy (makes more sense if you’re seen Torchwood) — he isn’t exactly the hero much of the time. Except when he is. Captain Jack, chaotic neutral ish? (I’d say true neutral but they apparently never do anything *has not played D&D*)


  8. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Anyone seen Cold Comfort Farm? Rufus Sewell as Seth Starkadder, now that was something to see. Love that film. Plus you’ve got Ian McKellen at his wild-eyed best, Eileen Atkins, Kate Beckinsale, Stephen Fry and Joanna Lumley – what more could you want?

    Ha, Falconer, be warned – Troy doesn’t get any smarter. How the hell he eventually makes Inspector I’ll never know.

    Midsomer must be the most dangerous place in England, even worse than everywhere-north-of-Manchester-including-Scotland for its serial killer count. They must have to space out the series to repopulate the place.

  9. Rufus Sewell KILLED as Seth Starkadder. I love that movie so much~!!

  10. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Me too! I’ve lost count of how often I’ve watched it.


  11. It’s unfair that a jerk like Troy makes Inspector while Dangerous Davies stays a DC all his career. But I suppose that’s his tragic flaw.

    Great, now I has a sad because we’re never gonna have more Dalziel & Pascoe since the author passed away :( That was a great series.

  12. Gay maybe villains? Captain Jack, the sometimes good guy (makes more sense if you’re seen Torchwood) — he isn’t exactly the hero much of the time. Except when he is. Captain Jack, chaotic neutral ish? (I’d say true neutral but they apparently never do anything *has not played D&D*)

    I’d be tempted to give that one a passing grade just because he’s the protagonist–even if he’s morally grey, he’s not the bad guy. There are bad guys.

    Shows where the only gay guy is very definitely the bad guy are just way, way worse.

    And now I need to see Cold Comfort Farm.

  13. Saw Rufus Sewell on stage in Tom Stoppard’s Arcadia with – OMG what a cast – Felicity Kendal, BillNighy, Harriet Walters, Sam West. Desperately sad that noone thought to film that production. Think Byronic. *dies*

    If you want to see him in his youthful beauty, try Middlemarch. And he’s interesting as a cross-dressing Petruchio role in the BBC’s modern take of Taming of the Shrew.

  14. I has a sad about Dalziel & Pascoe too.

    [adds Cold Comfort Farm to list of movies to watch]

  15. And I think we should just keep this thread as the Open Thread for random discussions — no wait, what am I talking about? That is EVERY thread! :D

  16. Doctor Who has never pretended to be hard science fiction … At best Doctor Who is a fairytale, with fairytale logic about this wonderful man in this big blue box who at the beginning of every story lands somewhere where there is a problem. – neil gaiman

    Hah! It’s nice to have backup :P

  17. (I’d say true neutral but they apparently never do anything *has not played D&D*)

    The 3.5 Player’s Handbook says sometimes true neutral people don’t put too much moral thought into their actions and just do what seems like a good idea, while others make a commitment to avoid extremes of thought and view good, evil, lawful and chaotic as “biased and prejudiced” attitudes. &#3232__&#3232

    Yeah, I know it’s a nine-foot tall, goat-hoofed, brick-red being from the Lower Planes, but we haven’t actually seen it devour the souls of virgins, so I think you should not leap to any conclusions, Mr. Smite The Wicked With The Very Sharp Edge of My Enchanted Sword.

    Of course, in 4E there’s no neutral, there’s unaligned.

    I know what would make this thread burst 2,000 comments if anybody here cared: Edition wars! Everyone choose up sides and calmly explain why everybody else’s decision makes them a morally corrupt, despicable human being. Or stupid and immature. But few people here play D&D and those who do are all laid back.

  18. It seems like in the 70s a lot of British and possibly US* murder mysteries revolved around someone who was gay, and was being blackmailed, so the blackmailer gets killed and if the gay person didn’t do it, zie was the most obvious suspect.

    I’ve moved on to Series 1, Episode 2 of Midsomer, and I know DS Troy is a bit fick but could you at least answer him without the sarcasm, Inspector? Thank you.

  19. *I haven’t read that many US murder mysteries, for some reason it’s mostly British.

  20. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Barnaby does sarcasm better than he does detecting, I think. I like the second Barnaby, the one Neil Dudgeon (always enjoy seeing him and you’ve got to love that name) plays, better. Plus his dog Sykes is the best.

  21. thebewilderness

    Cold Comfort Farm is in every way splendid. One of the few instances where they did not do violence to the book.

  22. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    I can never see Ian McKellen without thinking of him as Amos Starkadder.

  23. Five! More! Comments!

    Well, four now.

  24. Never say I don’t do my part.

  25. Now 3 more!

    Falconer — ok, that makes some sense. So idk on Harkness, he’s more…wtf needs to be done, or he wants, fuck the consequences. Though I guess it’s usually for good, for some definition of good.

  26. Advance the thread. My internet connection is really spotty, if you can’t tell.

  27. Wow, you guys, it’s so very silly to just post extra comments to lengthen this thread.

  28. Very silly.

  29. Extremely.

  30. Silly is what I do best.

  31. I would never participate in such silliness.

  32. Hello silly thread :D

    So was the goal just to breach 1500, or to just rack up comments until people get bored?

  33. AnotherFrustratedChump

    I suppose the first step for these wayward souls might be to read the following account detailing what heterosexual women dating male models might really undergo:

    I would propose that at least some of the users on the forum you’re mocking aren’t so much acting like this out of an inherent hatred of women, so much as from being chronically under-informed. It’s easy, or at least not difficult, for men like these to believe that “women only date men with male model looks” or the like, especially if you feel tormented by an omnipresent sex drive, have no reliable and side-effects-free way of squelching it, and are missing key pieces of the puzzle, which I’ll outline below:

    -They don’t know the actual basis of heterosexual female attraction (which you’ve already covered in how they’ve been duped by the PUA industry), often dubbed “gina tingles” in this sector of the web. And how could they reliably find out? It’s not like the women who continually reject them can or will give them an aspect-by-aspect explanation of what they find unattractive about these men. So they misapply the “looks attraction model” (which they see as inherent to male attraction) to women, lacking any other tools of explanation. To them, attracting women for sex and/or relationships is a complete crapshoot with neither rhyme nor reason nor any factor they can control, and no matter how much they improve themselves in hopes of possessing that “unknown quality/quantity that will spark actual attraction,” the torment from their sex drives will only continue.

    -They don’t know the importance of personality in heterosexual attraction. This is partly because they can’t ask the women who reject them about it, partly because they can’t ask happy couples on the street about the minutiae of their relationships and how their personalities make it work, and partly because they can see plenty of “decent guys” (whom some women say they’d “do anything to meet and date”) who get rejected plenty of times, and have no idea why. When you get told time after time about how a woman rejected or broke up with a man, for no apparent reason despite all the obvious good qualities he brought to the relationship, it’s easy to become suspicious of female judgment on who makes good relationship potential.

    -They have little or nothing on which to base their confidence/self-esteem towards women. When you write that “most of those posting on PUAhate don’t actually seem to be ugly by anyone’s standards but their own,” how would they go about finding out something like that? I don’t believe that the majority of men get their looks validated on a regular basis in most First-World countries by women, for instance (whereas behaviour like cat-calls and wolf-whistling directed at women are inappropriate, but is still validation of their looks/sexual attractiveness in most cases nonetheless). In addition, western culture is full of putdowns on men, treating men or male characters as perpetually stupid and clueless (look at Homer Simpson) or fungible in relationships (listen to Beyonce’s hit song “Irreplaceable”). The old sayings about “women need men like fishes need bicycles” or “women need men because vibrators (which are talked about like they are better sex partners than any man) can’t mow the lawn” don’t help either. Being repeatedly rejected isn’t a positive experience for the majority of men.

    It’s easy (or again, at least not difficult) to go from a continual lack of validation to resentment, and from resentment to hatred. When you see something you so desperately want pick itself up and go with someone who is demonstrably harmful, it’s easy to take those steps. When you see women have inscrutable standards and yet “give it up” for someone you can’t see the value of, it’s easy to write it off to the mysterious “gina tingles.” When every sight of a happy couple, or even a girl who routinely and happily spends time around the same man, can’t help but remind you of what you are missing and craving every moment, what these “incels” (as you mockingly refer to them) write is a little more understandable.

    Perhaps it might even put a more human face on what you call “shallow, self-obsessed assholes who hate themselves and hate women and radiate their bitterness from every pore.” Perhaps they only want to love and be loved by the right woman, and are at a complete loss of how to get there. Perhaps they might even be taught better if we could understand, address, and offer better alternatives to their problematic viewpoints instead of reserving only mockery, derision, and better-than-you smugness for them.

    Or would that be completely beyond the purview of this blog?

  34. It would also be easy for them to inform themselves. A disdain, at the very least, seems to inform their lack of looking for such information.

  35. Pro-Equality MRA

    Brilliant post, AFC. Many feminists would do well to listen.

  36. AnotherFrustratedChump

    @pecunium: Actually, I covered the obstacles to these people informing themselves about women and their relationships. Are there specific points in my comment that you take issue with?

  37. Francis Lebrun

    I’m an incel myself, I’ve accepted a while ago that I’d never get a girlfriend and I don’t feel like it’s such a big deal.

    The real problems are much more important than that: you say personality can fix all of your problems, but I can tell you that I’m always trying really hard to be a nice, studious guy and I can hardly get FRIENDS or even a JOB because of it, it sucks and denying that society is not a game of appearance is really, really foolish in every possible way.
    Many studies have even reported that people who were under average looking were less likely to get high paid jobs.

    When you’re an incel, you get shunned by your colleague, mostly male, but the women tend to follow the trend, you’re the all-star loser. We’re stereotyped as villains, creepers and perverts in all medias. Ironically enough, most of us gave up on embarrassing ourselves by asking women out.

    You probably don’t even have these problems yourself, certainly you can’t see it much more clearly as I do. But if you look around you and you’ll see that attractive people form a clique around themselves as much as ugly people, both different. Attractive to average and average-low to plain ugly.
    The good thing is that some people are just lucky to have that burlesque face that screams “that funny guy”, these people will most certainly find some love, but some of them are just “awkward” looking and will scare everyone around them.

    I’m pretty much a 1/10 on that scale. I was bullied all of my life because of it and it’s not because I can’t speak, but because every time I smile, I look like someone who have a disability: my veins come out of my forehead, I have no chin, no jawline, no cheekbones, I can’t think of any person on earth I could compare myself to, except an ugnaught. I don’t even look like a man, I look like an ugly child.
    If your employer won’t give you enough sympathy for a job, how could a women marry you?… and if you can’t love yourself, who will?

    Some people are just doomed to be lonely and shunned by society, accept it and stop living in a dream world, you can see it everywhere around you, it’s not something you must cover under misogyny but something you have to change, it’s even more painful than fat shaming.

    Excuse my french.

  38. Francis Lebrun

    I’ve read the VICE article, but even if they wouldn’t date male models doesn’t mean they would date incels, not to mention that there’s this quote: “They’re too skinny. I can’t be seen with a guy who is thinner than me – are you fucking nuts?”
    How can you explain that society is not a game of appearance by reading this article? It proves the exact opposite.

  39. Francis Lebrun

    Just to clarify, I don’t blame women.
    I blame a society perverted by Hollywood stars and gossips, affecting men and women alike.

  40. Francis Lebrun

    Actually I’m not even sure that’s the case, I’m just plain ugly and my ugliness doesn’t reflect any positive aspect of my personality.

  41. I briefly checked out Most of the posters are guys who have purchased PUA material and criticise it, They’re annoyed because they feel like they have wasted time – and not to mention, money – on something that just doesn’t work.

    Those despicable self-proclaimed “incels” tend to stick around on one subforum.

  42. @Francis

    I know lots of conventionally unattractive people who are in happy relationships. They spend less time reading misogynistic nonsense on the internet and more time actually living their lives.

    “We’re stereotyped as villains, creepers and perverts in all medias.”

    BS. Yes, people who identify as “incel” are stereotyped. People who don’t see being single as some sort of cosmic punishment are not.

  43. kittehserf MOD

    Ugh, Francis’s comments are from a year ago. Not much point replying now, the thread’s only up again because J Smith necroed it.

  44. Haha my bad! I have no idea why my brain thought July 25th could have been recently!

  45. kittehserf MOD

    Don’t worry, I came *this* close to doing it too – saw July and didn’t read much further! :D

    How’ve you been, anyway? Haven’t seen you on site in ages.

  46. Alright! Pretty busy with work, so I haven’t had much time for commenting. How are you?

    Congrats on being a mod! Although, I’d imagine that heavy is the head that directs the banhammer.

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