How not to impress the ladies on OkCupid
So @catches_stars on Twitter is pretty hilarious. She’s also got an OkCupid account, and regularly posts snippets of her conversations with some of the more problematic dudes who contact her, some on her main Twitter account and some on @okcupid_TXT. With her permission, and because I’m too lazy to actually write a post today, I’m passing along a few of my favorites.
This overeager fellow has a rather sudden change of heart when his stated plan runs into an obstacle, that obstacle being that @catches_stars finds him completely repulsive.
This guy is either totally high or trying some weird and misguided PUA wizardry on her. (It does not succeed.)
This foot-obsessed fellow spammed her with the same message from several different accounts.
This guy, who seems to be shirtless in his profile pic, gets what I assume is, to him, a very disappointing answer.
As does this fellow.
Romance is hard.
Posted on February 28, 2013, in antifeminism, creep-shaming, creepy, homophobia, incoherent rage, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, okcupid, penises, PUA, the c-word and tagged antifeminism, misogyny, okcupid, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 777 Comments.
All this blather about theory … kid, do you not grasp* that
1) your take on the theory is crap. It’s been shown already from REAL LIFE EXPERIENCE that game is about manipulation that escalates all the way to rape.
2) all you have to do is read links to it yourself (like, y’know, the shit that Jeffries creature wrote and Myoo posted right here)
3) even if you were right about the theory, it DOES NOT MATTER. What matters is how it is put into practice, and how it affects people.
Are you really saying your claims about books matter more than what this shit does?
Or is it just that you spent ££££££££££££££££££££ on these books and now have to justify it?
We’re here to mock misogyny.
You stumbled in this thread by saying that iPhone users are dumb, and that Game is peachy. You failed to back up either.
“I came here to want to learn”
LOL No you didn’t. Do you think everyone is so dense and forgetful that they have no idea what things you have said? Not a single statement you have made indicated a willingness to learn.
He wants only to teach us! Why must we be so hard-headed!
Teaching emotional ladies is itself practical.
Cloudiah: Your wish is my command.
Do e books or paperback count? I don’t think mine will be in hardcover. :(
Some Gal: yeah, he clearly cannot read the site header. Or simply sit quietly and read old threads before making a flaming jackass out of himself.
@Martyn
We covered this umpteen times already.
By listening and asking questions if you get lost. You misunderstood a post, answered a question that wasn’t asked, people got understandably upset, you doubled down on answering the unasked question. Just admit you were wrong and shut up.
Shutting up is itself practical. (Still funny, btw.)
No, you did not.
You approach everything by assuming that you are right to begin with and then shoot down everyone who says something that goes against your assumptions. That’s not how someone who wants to learn acts. That’s how someone who thinks they know everything and wants to teach everyone else what they know acts.
And, while you claim that you are not ignoring me, you still haven’t answered my question: Why haven’t you stopped doing any of the things I’ve told you to stop?
@hellkell
At what point did I try to dictate? Unless you haven’t got a mind of your own, that’s a pretty redundant statement.
@Kitteh
When it comes to threats; sometimes I honestly don’t know what to believe when it comes to threats – I’ve seen claims from both sides of doxing and threats. But it’s a good suggestion nonetheless.
Apartheid is not a theory, it’s the practical implementation and application of racial segregation. There are sociological theories which were used to justify it, centered around how homogenous societies function better than heterogenous societies though.
(Really? Dude, really? I think you’re trolling me now! >_>)
@hellkell
Reading the site header is itself practical, while the mocking misogyny is a set of purposes governing how people should engage on this site.
katz: applause
I know Pierre has something of a backlog, but Martyn the muppet is well worthy of a comic.
I’m oppressing Martyn’s learning! Or would be, if that’s really what he came here for.
@katz
Sorry. I guess it’s because the personal attacks haven’t stopped and the personal attacks have not addressed the original arguments.
I lose respect over time for people who make personal attacks without merit when discussing abstract theory that is not in any form the actual application of said theory which harms people.
Honestly, I feel too sorry for him to do a comic about him. He’s not, it appears, miserable now, but he’ll Mr. Al in a few years and he’s too pig-headed for anyone to help him reach a different outcome.
Know who else liked himself a theory or two? Hitler.
What the fuck, may as well just Godwin the fucking thread. It’s not getting better.
@Martyn
The existence of the theory is itself practical. (Both mocking and informative!)
Anyone else miss Dragon Slayer right about now?
Martyn;
Sorry, I lose respect over assholes who can’t read the very simple explanations that have been given to them over and over and over and over again about why it is not “just a theory” and why it is fucking personal.
You’re not smart. You haven’t gotcha’d anyone. You’re the asshole sitting the back of the class ignoring everything the teacher says then whining about how “the teacher is out to get you” when you fail the test. That’s not cool, its pathetic.
I don;t give a rip if you repsect me or not, kiddo. You do realize that the sexism that drives game theory is not an abstract for women? No, you don’t. Only a truly clueless asshat thinks like you.
SHUT UP. JUST SHUT UP AND KEEP ON SHUTTING UP UNTIL THERE’S NO MORE UP TO SHUT. wanker.
Um, Martyn, be honest, why do you keep posting here?
By the way, you said a bunch of ignorant and damaging things about lesbians and other queer women. It wasn’t a “win” because oh, hey, you learned something! No harm done!
So? That’s how life is, boy. Not everything is a formally moderated debate and, honestly, you should be glad for that because you’d get spanked if you went up against these people at one of those.
But nothing I’ve told you to do requires people to not be telling you to fuck off. In fact, several things I’ve told you to do are specifically things you’re supposed to do when told to fuck off. (Didn’t you read my journal article?) And that, coupled with your general pattern of not responding to what’s actually being said, suggests that you are not understanding what you read.
So I’ll just ask: What is one thing I’ve suggested that you do or refrain from doing?
So our personal experiences with PUAs, the numerous posts our host has presented where PUAs are quoted directly, and the number of PUAs who have shown up throughout the history of this blog to defend this “theory” and actually use terms like “last minute resistance” and “bareback persistence,” are worth nothing?
We haven’t quoted How to Succeed with Women so our opinions are meritless?
How about this: Like several other posters, I’m a woman who has actually had to deal with wannabe PUAs in the social sphere. It fucking sucks. There’s nothing playful or sexy about it; there’s no “emotional journey.” It is usually annoying, occasionally humorous (in a laughing “at” not “with” sort of way) and can, depending on the practitioner, run the gamut from creepy and uncomfortable to scary.
@katz
I have massive respect for you.
Perhaps I have an unrealistic expectation in that I expect arguments to be backed up. The reaction(s) I’ve seen to a harmless explanation of the game have been ridiculously blown out of proportion.
I have learned quite a bit and probably will continue to do so, perhaps on different days with different subject matter to what has been discussed this time round.
@hellkell
That’s what learning from many sources is for. If you didn’t make things personal, y’know, your words could have a much larger impact on a greater range of people. Why stick to ridicule and insult which obscures what important points you do have when you could simply make points and contribute an awful lot to not just my own learning, but that of everyone else too!
@Martyn
Look at all the people you’ve alienated. How does that not make you stop, SHUT UP FOR THE NIGHT, and think about why that might be?
Well played.
That’s a myth. Myth!
Yeth?
@Marty – this isn’t a classroom. The world does not exist for you to learn. Nobody is obligated to stop what they are doing because a pretentious little wanker has wandered in demanding to be educated. And you don’t get to set the terms of how people engage with you when you behave like a spoiled little shit.
Nobody here cares about whether or not you respect us. I can tell you we absolutely do not respect you.
Also you REALLY need to read all of these:
http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#educate
http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#hostile
http://birdofparadox.wordpress.com/derailing-for-dummies-google-cache-reconstruction/#intellectual
@Martyn
It isn’t fucking harmless and it wasn’t fucking appropriate in multiple ways. Do you remember even one of them?
Fuck fuck fuck. You are so aggravating.
Nice tone troll, Martyn. Shut up.
Just FUCK OFF. Nobody wants you here. Are you getting some cheap thrill from that, sonny?
We aren’t here to teach you or anyone. You’ve willfully ignored everything said and now worn out what little welcome you had. If you wanted to learn, you’d have been off reading all those links at the side.
FUCK
OFF
FOREVER
What on earth made you think that we needed an explanation, let alone your highly specious explanation, of “game.” Did you bother to check the blog’s history? Do you think we’d never heard of “game”? Did anybody ask you for an explanation?
@Kim “Good grief, it’s a running gag.”
:)
@katz: What is one thing I’ve suggested that you do or refrain from doing?
In general terms, don’t be obnoxious.
In terms of your list, perhaps the most important one is ‘not assume what I say is right’. However, you did also say, not in these words (I am typing this without scrolling):
– to not frame myself as an authority
– to not disregard the personal views of people
– to use qualifers when starting sentences to better add context
I can’t take Martyn’s obdurate obtuseness and tone trolling any more. I’m going to snuggle the Biscuit.
Have fun with the new chew toy. Goodnight!
I can never pick a favorite between The Muppet Movie and The Great Muppet Caper. They both edge out the other films as my top two but I cannot choose between them. On the one hand, I love the music in The Muppet Movie. “I’m Going to Go Back There Someday,” almost never fails to move me to tears. I know, I know.
But The Great Muppet Caper has high fashion models and water ballet.
Probably not possible, but wouldn’t it be cool is there was a way to give select regulars, those who have shown that they are smart and not trolls, a way to downvote people. Then after say 3 downvotes that person is put in a temporary ban until David has a chance to read over it and make a decision. Obviously that power couldn’t be given to everyone, just for select ones. *wishful thinking*
Holy moly. The guy that decided to message her in order to drone on and on about his I-rage is so strange. I know that when a dude starts checkin’ out my electronics and proceeds to give me a patronizing lecture on why they are garbage is like…my number one turn on.
I guess the thinnest of silver linings is that for once it is someone shaming a gadget rather than a human body part?
Oh lord, I must say that Martyn Hale is one of the most snobby and entitled people I’ve ever had the pleasure of not meeting.
But hey, he demands that we challenge things on exactly the grounds he wants, so let’s all get in our padded armchairs, light up our pipes, and jovially discuss the theory behind overcoming “last minute resistance” as a means to get laid.
Dude, a harmless explanation would make clear that “Game” is a misogynistic system of thought which portrays women as puzzleboxes for men to solve through manipulation and even intimidation. Casting “Game” as some form of play in which everybody feels warm and fuzzy at the end is not harmless, it’s dangerous: that’s why people have been reacting the way they have.
PS the friendzone don’t real.
@hellkell
Enjoy your snuggles! Good night!
Gah. So many feels. I aspire to be Rowlf (the rare Zen Muppet) but I’m probably way more of a Gonzo in reality.
Martyn, you at a mixer (in meatspace, of course) must be a really sad thing.
You’re one of those smug little squirts who thinks he’s some kind of intellectual ninja. I know your type, most people here do. You’re not here to learn. I dunno if you’re actually telling yourself that or not, but there ya go. You’re a mansplainer who gets off on mansplaining.
Plato said humans were given two ears and one mouth so they can listen twice as much as they speak — or in this case, post.
Since we are talking about Muppet movies, can I put in my vote for “Follow That Bird.” It was my all-time fave non-animated movie as a kid.
I love The Muppets! I really like Rowlf too, but Animal is my favourite.
Why do my links not work, btw? :(
Muppets!
Okay, good. But you are still doing those first two and not doing the third. You are framing yourself as an authority by saying what does and doesn’t count as a source. (Not everything important was ever written in a book, and if you’re at school, you ought to know that primary sources are the most valuable of all.) You’re disregarding people’s personal views by insisting that this is a theoretical conversation when lots of people have had real-life experiences about it. And, well, if you’ve been using qualifiers, it hasn’t made you sound less like you think you know everything.
P.S. You can’t respect me without respecting my friends.
Oh, drst, there’s some dust in my eyes.
Just when I’ve decided that The Muppet Movie wins:
I can’t choose. I won’t.
God new troll is boring. JAQing off tone trolling? Almost makes me with he was ranting about the gold standard.
not from the movies, but this is one of my favorite bits from the Muppet Show.
And with that, I have a couple of beers, take myself for a walk and go to bed.
Night, drst!
Rowlf is my favorite, too. His face is very static, but they get lots of expression out of his body language. I love his Tom Waits-esque voice, too. His parts aren’t usually funny, exactly, I just really enjoy watching them!
I’m trying to pin down what childhood emotion it is The Muppets always rekindle in me, and I think it’s hope. Hope that the world can be a great place for everyone, and wonder at all the little things that are already special.
Martyn, no one actually believes that you’re here for intellectually honest discussions. Go away.
Anybody who thinks you need to slight the marginalized in order to be funny should take a lesson from the very funny, very warm-hearted and caring, world of The Muppets.
*Sniffs for no particular reason*
@Viscaria
They make me feel loved.
*eyes HP computer and iPhone hooked up to it*
Somehow, knowing SmartyMarty would never be interested in me makes me feel like I’ve won such a prize! Such an amazing wealth of happiness. It’s like winning the Lotto, I think. I mean, in general, I value reading for comprehension, so being distained by someone who can’t read a subheading is so delicious.
I actually started a whole second on How Not to Pick up a Chick from my experiences with Second Life. Having it all in plain text somehow helped a lot in showing just how… pathetic the interactions are. How clear it is that the person on the other end has no interest in me. I’ve been considering putting up a How To from a recent person I met (where it actually started with a complement), but I want to ask him permission first.
It seems like there are these basic errors men keep making that, I dunno… seem obvious to me? Don’t lead with a sexual comment. Be interesting and have something to say. Ask questions. If you’re not interested, excuse yourself and move on. Sometimes I feel like someone explaining tying a shoelace to someone in their thirties who keeps interrupting me with, “But when do the PENGUINS show up????”
@Harey
If you really want to learn, this is not the place to do it. You need to learn how to be in a minority space first before you come to a place like this.
I am not convinced you actually *want* to be an ally, but if you do, then you need to learn how to do it. Try this article – http://bunnika.wordpress.com/2011/12/04/overstepping-allies/ and then spend some time reading 101 blogs and understanding how your privilege makes you sound like an insufferable arse. There are plenty of articles out there that you can read without interacting directly with women before you’re ready. That way we don’t get irritated and you don’t get told to fuck off. It’s win/win.
@Shiraz
It’s not called being an intellectual ninja to want to see some basic justifications, it’s called knowing that when people supply the information, that’s it’s good and can be backed up. That’s not to say personal opinions are bad at all.
“mansplaining” just sounds like a cop-out, claiming that I believe my explanations are somehow superior due to sex. That’s not really the case at all.
@Some Gal
Sorry I failed to appreciate the effect my explanation would have. What else can I possibly say? It was made in good faith, not with the intent of being offensive, upsetting or forming any attempt at invalidating the personal opinions of others.
@Tulgey Logger
There are misogynists abusing women whos methods of abuse include ideas derived from game. That cannot be denied.
I don’t believe game holds up to scrutiny, but casting game as a “misogynistic system of thought which portrays women as puzzleboxes for men to solve through manipulation and even intimidation” is harmful – it stifles discussion of ways for people to better express their desires in a more attractive way to others. Because, lets face it, if someone does not want to have sex with someone else, they’re not going to have sex with them.
I feel for people who suffer shit because people who wont take no for an answer try to manipulate and intimidate others but that should *never* *ever* stifle legitimate discussion of any psychosocial theory or concept (and yes, I use the term loosely here).
This is my favorite random starter. You can start to sing it and people will just… join in.
@Some Gal, a million thanks to Jim Henson and his team for bringing that feeling to you and others.
The kid who’s making Baby’s First Attempt at Talking Politics is still here? Do we need to start talking bra sizes again to banish him?
Sorry, but my patience with 101 stuff is very low.
P.S. to everyone else… I know there are better, more general articles out there about how to engage in a minority space but my google fu fails me atm. Can anyone throw some links at me?
@Kim
I will take what you’re saying on-board. I’ve thus far only read one 101 blog. My only experiences with minority spaces consist of a small period of time speaking to people at an REC.
yeah, okay
Idiot, that is discussion. It’s perfectly possible to discuss things without framing them in positive ways. You may have noticed this in… well, in everywhere, at all times, pretty much.
@CassandraSays
I’m beginning to think it is Baby’s First Time on the Internet.
Game is psychosocial theory?
Ugh, jeez.
The question you should ask yourself is why you felt the need to offer it in the first place. What made you decide that the posters on this blog needed any explanation of “game” theory, let alone yours?
You know, for someone so fond of declarative statements and citations you’re woefully short on research. A quick google search on the term “mainsplaining” would help.
You feel for us? Really? You feel for us. What an unbelievably patronizing and dismissive choice of expression.
You. Feel. For. Us.
What do you feel?
“Your insistence on calling my behaviour ‘mansplaining’ simply shows how little you’ve understood what’s going on here. Allow me to explain it for you, once again.”
Lemme guess: your favourite Muppet is Sam, yes?