How not to impress the ladies on OkCupid
So @catches_stars on Twitter is pretty hilarious. She’s also got an OkCupid account, and regularly posts snippets of her conversations with some of the more problematic dudes who contact her, some on her main Twitter account and some on @okcupid_TXT. With her permission, and because I’m too lazy to actually write a post today, I’m passing along a few of my favorites.
This overeager fellow has a rather sudden change of heart when his stated plan runs into an obstacle, that obstacle being that @catches_stars finds him completely repulsive.
This guy is either totally high or trying some weird and misguided PUA wizardry on her. (It does not succeed.)
This foot-obsessed fellow spammed her with the same message from several different accounts.
This guy, who seems to be shirtless in his profile pic, gets what I assume is, to him, a very disappointing answer.
As does this fellow.
Romance is hard.
Posted on February 28, 2013, in antifeminism, creep-shaming, creepy, homophobia, incoherent rage, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, okcupid, penises, PUA, the c-word and tagged antifeminism, misogyny, okcupid, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 777 Comments.
Say, was game/PUA ever one of Mr Al’s hobbyhorses?
@Kitteh’s Unpaid Help: Yup. I was going to type “cobwebbed”!
Driving is itself practical, while the highway code is a set of rules governing how people should drive. @cloudiah
Agreed. Let’s all laugh at it again, shall we?
Hahahaha.
Hahaha. “Is itself practical” should be a thing and that’s real.
drst – first thing I thought was that it was an ad for the Hog’s Breath Cafe. I didn’t even think of Pigs in Space till I saw the caption. :D
Kitteh’s: no, not really. Besides, this lackwit is completely devoid of humor, unlike Mr. Al.
Apparently, I was so amused, I pasted it a third time.
Pasting correctly is itself practical.
hellkell – I wondered if this was one of Mr Al’s more elaborate sock schemes.
I read a thread from about a year ago last night, and Mr Al was actually showing his smart side rather than his douchey side – it must have been that short period (?) when he was behaving. It’s a pity he couldn’t get his shit together, or rather, expunge all the shittiness. All his trolling since then suggests it was a lost cause.
Martyn,
Game = theory: This is the way in which a man might (at best) manipulate a woman into sleeping with him or (at worst) sexually assault her.
PUA = practice: I’m going to use of game to achieve either end (manipulation or assault).
People are objecting to the theory because its use in practice is to achieve terrible ends, and those ends are the very intention of the theory.
I’ve read many commercially published works on the subject. Yet no-one has ever cited the physical, hardback books found in stores like Waterstones or Barnes and Noble when making the claim that it’s about rape.
http://eqwithdenise.wordpress.com/2010/02/02/game-over-whats-wrong-with-game-seduction-and-the-pick-up-artist-industry/
http://www.xojane.com/issues/are-pickup-artists-contributing-rape-culture
http://www.politicususa.com/beware-creepy-rape-van-guy-pick-artist-cult.html
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pick-up_artist
http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-854
Trolls are always wrong.
They apparently cannot google!
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.
Hi Ithiliana!
Did you get snow the other day?
Are you suggesting that the muppets are not necessary for cultural literacy these days?
I don’t really know much about the muppets beyond being able to identify some of the characters, but I’m an outlier. I was born in 1991 and know nothing about Pokemon or any other kid’s shows of that time…
I FAILED MY CULTURAL LITERACY EXAM SO HARD
*melodramatic sobbing*
@hellkell
When did I imply I said stuff about flirting prior to when I typed that comment? That comment is a valid counterargument for the assertion that the game is a tool for rape.
I don’t think the goalposts have moved at all by explaining other potential uses of a theory. You’ve not even provided your explanation of the theory to compare notes on, so how can anyone determine if someone has moved the goalposts as you put it.
How about I ask your personal judgement on this*: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_293378&feature=iv&src_vid=l8W71JaSTpo&v=5Bm3_9_7H4c
It’s practical application of push-pull :)
* Full unconditional acceptance of your judgement regarding this video hereby explicitly stated – feel free to tell me to go fuck myself if I dare so much as try to invalidate your opinions on this.
@Baroncognito – for me Muppet literacy is a requirement for life. However, the kids these days, with their iPhones vs. Android vendettas and their Angry Birds and loud music and all may not know the glory that was Link Hogthrob.
@CWS – The original Muppet Show was the 1970s so I think you can justifiably not worry about it. Pokemon is another story ;)
@Marty – this isn’t a courtroom, nor are you Sam Waterson. Nobody owes you a “valid” anything here. Nobody gives a shit what you think is valid or not. You’re a useless troll who is, optimistically, in for a terrible, painful shock of reality when you actually go out and engage with the adult world. I only hope at some point you have the education and self-awareness to remember the nonsense you’ve been spewing here for days and have to live with the memory making you squirm in endless embarrassment.
Martyn: I am all out of spoons with which to feed you, baby bird. This means you should go look up what “moving goalposts” means in this context, and you should realize I’m not going to watch your videos. I’m not a fan of Argumentum YouTube.
@Martyn
Nope. You don’t know what you are talking about. You aren’t even listening. Why are you here?
Between the talk of the Muppets and hellkell calling Martyn “baby bird,” I am picturing Martyn as a very verbose Muppet Baby. It sadly doesn’t make him any more fun.
Who does this kid think he is? He’s under the impression that we should fall all over ourselves to educate his dumb ass, or failing that, tell him how right and brilliant he is. LORD is he tiresome.
Martyn: go look for validation elsewhere.
@drst
I had four channels, one TV, a playstation, and a disabled father who needed low-interactivity entertainment. I have a very good reason for not knowing anything mentioned in the 90s Kid things, but it still hurts. :(
@ithiliana:
Props for the first link you provided. If I could virtually bow down to show just how good that link was in providing a decent argument against the game theory, that is one.
LMR (Last Minute Resistance) and/or ASD are perhaps the most controversial elements of PUA theories in general (including the game), in that it makes some very very dodgy assumptions:
1) That people are societally pressured into not having sex when they want to
2) That people de-facto put up false resistance in order to feel comfortable with sex
I personally disagree with these ideas from having met enough women to know that resistance == sex is not wanted, at all.
@Creative Writing Student
I had to pick up a lot of 80s/90s entertainment after the fact. We had four channels and an SNES. I didn’t listen to pop music until I was 13. Now, I think it is a bit cool that I missed out on the crap and can pick up the good stuff (yay internet!) if I want, but I know not everyone would see it that way. It sucked being uncool and self-conscious as a kid, though.
Martyn, I notice you’re no longer responding to any of my posts. I assume you’re deliberately ignoring them because I’m telling you to change your behavior and you don’t want to. If you are not deliberately ignoring my posts, please prove it (and demonstrate your ability to do things in response to requests) by responding to this post with an animal picture of your choice. If you don’t, I’ll stop trying to help you.
Controversial
Do you know what that actually means?
Referring to it that way says you think there’s an argument to be made for pressuring, coercing or forcing people to have sex.
You’re saying there’s some controversy about the idea of enthusiastic, informed consent.
You’re saying there’s some controversy about the idea that rape is wrong.
That, or you’re so fucking stupid you go for the idea that rape = stranger jumping out from bushes and nothing else.
Go choke on gravel, you disgusting little slime. How often do you have to be told that there is nothing excusable about this system or the creatures promoting it?
@hellkell
Fuck off. Now you’re just making stupid assumptions.
@Some Gal: By the time I’ve posted, there are already additional comments, it’s not “not listening”, it’s “haven’t gotten around to seeing what’s new” and then my posts appearing to not address what others have said.
@Katz:
Martyn, between you and Hellkell, do you know who everyone is going to pick?
@Some Gal
I didn’t care as a kid because I was socially oblivious enough to only have a vague idea that these things existed, maybe. It’s now all my friends reminisce about things and I have no idea what they’re talking about or I just don’t get it because it’s a nostalgia thing (e.g. Pokemon).
It makes me feel like I’ve failed as a geek, sometimes. :(
… I made myself sad. I’m gonna go reset my brain with sleep. Night.
No, sonny, you fuck off. You don’t get to dictate to the regulars here. Take your misogynistic stupidity and piss off. You’re not remotely interested in listening and learning from other people’s experiences, you’re just big-noting yourself.
An MRA at Stanford:
http://www.stanforddaily.com/2013/02/28/a-discussion-on-feminism/
Just goes to show how “smart” people can be utterly clueless…
[studiously ignores the boring troll proving that point in this very thread]
@Martyn
You weren’t listening before I went to make dinner. You still hadn’t absorbed what was said by the time I finished making it and finished eating it and put it away. You have been focusing on the people ALREADY MAD AT YOU and ignoring those of use who tried to help. You need to cut that’s shit out. You are entitled and an asshole. Please leave.
Okay, I’ll assume that last post was attempting to use the IMG SRC tag, which doesn’t actually work here, rather than replying with a blank message.
If so, and if that indicates that you actually are interested in doing something here other than throwing a tantrum, why are you still doing all the things I’ve explained to you not to do?
Do you think you’re playing your precious game here, fuckwit? Ignoring boundaries, refusing to go away and leave people alone when you’re told to?
Protip: everyone here likes hellkell.
Nobody here likes you.
Go away.
@CWS – night! Also there is no right way to be a geek, so don’t let other people shame you for what you do or do not know. I totally missed the Dr. Who thing. Almost everyone I know either was a fan or has become one recently. It’s alienating sometimes to not know, but life goes on, yanno?
There are no failures at being geeks. To want to be a geek is to be one :)
@Creative Writing Student
You haven’t, but I understand that isn’t really the point. I am so sorry and I hope you feel better. Night!
Aw, the little man’s mask just slipped. Whoopsie.
Let us now bask in the irony of Martyn claiming someone other than him is making assumptions.
@Kitteh:
That was a response to the number of personal attacks with zero merit put out by hellkell. If you believe any of what I said has been misogynistic then please, show me where and point out why.
@Katz:
Sorry, did try to add a picture, but for some reason embedding just failed O_o
I’m not ignoring you, I promise.
You are a totally righteous geek, CWS! Sleep well!
Did Martyn just tell hellkell to fuck off? Like, does he think he has that power here? I was enjoying the troll beatdown you all were giving him, but now I’m just confused. Is he aware that if David came flying in with the ban hammer right now it would not be aimed at hellkell?
hellkell – lol, you got the troll. ::high five::
Making assumptions is NOT itself practical.
(I don’t care if no one plays with me, it is still cracking me up.)
@hellkell:
Hah! Says the one who makes personal attacks without being able to justify a single assertion made.
katz, maybe we need to resurrect your peer-reviewed journal to try to get through to him?
cloudiah: Argh, that article. Another wanker going on about theory. They just don’t get it.
Some Gal, I’m glad you thought that was hilarious too.
Fuckwit misogynist troll – you want proof you’re misogynist? Engage brain and read all the shit you’ve posted here over the last couple of days, and the replies, and note especially how you ignore everything the readers here (mostly women) say, and how you double down even when you’re demonstrably wrong.
You’ve more than earned everything hellkell has said.
@Martyn
Hellkell has certainly justified the assertion that you need to fuck off.
Martyn; you’re a pathetic, pretentious, idiotic, troll. Justification? Every single comment you have made in this thread.
@Ranter: I just responded like with like. Nothing more, nothing less.
If you consider trolling to be discussing what is well documented rather than making personal attacks, then yeah hellkell is totally beating me down by “fuck”ing me “off”.
Otherwise, I felt it appropriate to respond with the same language (s)he used towards me without any real merit.
Marytn: did you forget how it works? You made the assertions when you barged in here, YOU get to back them up. That’s some 101 shit, son.
If he thinks I’ve been giving him personal attacks, the delicate flower hasn’t gotten around on the web much. I can think of a lot of sites that would have roasted and banned his tiresome self by now.
Trolling is itself practical, while misogyny is one of the sets of rules governing how people should troll, and that’s real, and now I have to make dinner.
hellkell doesn’t need to justify assertions. hellkell is a regular and knows wtf is going on.
You can sit there and calmly ask people to point shit out to you but they already have and you’re not listening. People are telling you to fuck off because you’re not here in good faith. They know you’re not here in good faith.
Do you?
@cloudiah
It is literally the best thing I’ve seen today. I loved your “set-up” too, but the cluelessness of the response was just so precious.
Aw man, I love when men come to tell women that we aren’t permitted to object to the treatment and abuse we’ve received until we’ve all sat down and had a nice, civil, objective discussion about the theory behind it. It’s almost as fun as when straight men tell queer women how free we are to explore our sexuality as teenagers in societies that only consider sex involving men to be “real” sex/forget we exist half the time.
(But seriously, I really dislike you.)
Not to mention all his “moderate”, “reasonable” MRAs. If he posted on their sites with stuff they didn’t like, he’d be getting all the homophobic slurs you could imagine. If he did a little experiment and posted with a female-identifying name, we know what level of threats he’d be getting.
Why do all the trolls quibble with our definition of troll like that will make us go “Oh! RIGHT! Troll does mean something slightly different than you are. I guess we love you now.”?
Viscaria: I wonder if Martin has sat down with black people and had a discussion about the theory of racism. There’s a chat I’d love to see.
Oh, and the “game = flirting”?
Maybe it’s just me, but if you need a goddamn script, you aren’t flirting.
Now I’m imagining David’s entrance like this.
hellkell – don’t forget the theory of apartheid!
Most people have not quoted any books on the game or PUA concepts, instead, rather than just get links with references to actual elements of the game, people started with personal attacks.
ithiliana has provided links which directly challenge game concepts, which is what should have been posted in the first place.
It is not just you.
Martyn: do you have any “theories” on why you’re not really in a position to dictate what should or shouldn’t happen here?
I think being willfully obtuse is a lifestyle choice with this one.
@Martyn
What should have been done in the first place is for you to shut up and listen more. Now, what should be done is for you to fuck off. Fucking off is itself practical.
If we write and publish autobiographies in hard cover, will we be allowed to talk about our actual experiences again?
@whataboutthemoonz:
I came here to want to learn, and I did learn plenty regarding the feminist perspective on MRAs, plenty in fact. I also received a nice guide on terminology for understanding the LGBT and transgender/transsex communities.
There’s a difference with this argument though in that a lot of people dodged challenging the game entirely and proceeded to throw out personal attacks. That’s intellectually dishonest!
I’m not here to troll whatsoever. I’m here to have a decent discussion on issues which people bring up. I didn’t mention the game, someone else did. But hey, if people are going to get personal over theory which can be applied in many different ways, then how can anyone learn anything?
Aw yes Game. Many books have been written about it and thousands of blog posts posted. I can sum up Game in 5 points: 1) workout 2) dress sharp 3) have an agreeable and fun personality 4) take an interest in lots of things and 5) don’t be a spineless wimp. Oh and a bonus 6) Go after what you want (friends, dating, career, health, etc…).
There! just saved everyone a bunch of money they don’t have to spend on useless PUA nonsense. Now take that grand you were going to spend on a “bootcamp” and get yourself a gym membership/equipment, some fitted clothes and a few books on topics you never read about.
@hellkell
I think that what Martyn wants is for us to sit down like we are all in an intro level course and cite the texts. He doesn’t seem to realize that this is not an intro level class and we can all discuss Plato without citing chapter and verse first. Everyone is already supposed to be familiar with the basic concepts and to demonstrate advanced understanding.
I have actually met students like him, but they never brought the attitude outside the classroom. (Thank FSM.)