Abused women “demand” their abuse: How MRAs make the abusers’ arguments for them

Arrestreport

An Orlando man, Faron Thompson, was recently charged with battery and child neglect after an altercation in which he allegedly tried to force his fiancée to swallow her engagement ring when she tried to leave him. (More details here.)

This sort of abuse is depressingly commonplace when women try to free themselves from abusive and controlling men; indeed, if I posted every news account along these lines on this blog I wouldn’t have time to do anything else.

No, I mention this case because something that Thompson reportedly told police reveals a lot about the mindset of abusers. When they arrested him, police say, Thompson complained that:

Women always claim assault, but never accept responsibility for provoking someone.

That is how abusers think.

It’s also how a lot of MRAs think.

Indeed, when I read Thomson’s reported remarks, the y immediately brought to mind something written not that long ago by Karen Straughan, the YouTube videoblogger who goes by the name of Girl Writes What. Straughan describes herself in her A Voice for Men bio as “the most popular and visible MRA in North America,” and given the rapturous reception her videos get on You Tube and on Reddit, this may not be an idle boast.

In the rather revealing Reddit comment I’m thinking of (which I blogged about earlier), Straughan suggested not only that abused women regularly “demand” the abuse they receive, but that many of them also get some sort of sexual charge from it. Oh, I’m sure she’ll deny that she really meant all that, but I can’t see any other way to read the following.
fmragwwdv1

Oh, and in case you were wondering what article she’s referring to in the last paragraph — the one she says isn’t “seriously ethically questionable” — it’s a post from the repugnant Ferdinand Bardamu arguing that men should “terrorize” their partners because that’s the “the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.” For more about that charming piece, titled “The Necessity of Domestic Violence,” see my post here.

I’m having less and less of a problem with calling the Men’s Rights movement “the abusers lobby.”

I’m sure there are some MRAs who are as repulsed by Straughan’s argument as I am. If you’re one of them, and want your movement, such as it is, to be remembered as something other than “the abusers lobby,” you need to call out all those MRAs who make such arguments. Might I suggest that you start by challenging the “the most popular and visible MRA in North America,” otherwise known as Girl Writes What?

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Posted on January 25, 2013, in a voice for men, a woman is always to blame, antifeminism, domestic violence, excusing abuse, FemRAs, GirlWritesWhat, misogyny, MRA, victim blaming and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 326 Comments.

  1. Hi Cloudia, hello Argenti Aertheri–shortening my name is totally fine with me.

  2. I haven’t caught up with the comments yet, but I banned babyd and deleted his comments. Racist shithead.

    I let though some extremely problematic victim blaming comments from “disposable man”; I’ve got him on moderation.

  3. Disposable man, I didn’t “dox drop” anyone. Straughan/GWW has started to identify herself with her real name on AVFM. It’s in the bio at the end of her articles, which she wrote herself.

  4. Shorter disposableman: You’re all lying women. Because I say so.

    Yawns.

  5. Let’s see… Feminists are opposed to both physical and verbal abuse by any gender. MRAs think a woman who verbally abuses a man deserves to be beaten, choked, etc.

    Yeah, I’m still sticking with feminism.

  6. Disposable man, who is WBB? Wooly Bumblebee? I’m pretty sure she’s posted her real name on AVFM, but I don’t actually know what it is, nor do I really give a shit. I wrote about her once and I don’t think anyone referred to her w/ her name.

  7. Oh David, how could you be so manipulative, provoking disposableman into making that false accusation? He can’t possibly be expected to be responsible for checking his facts before sounding off. /snark

  8. Poor Daveeeeeed, relegated to his little treefort, raging impotently at the world.

  9. Wooly Bumblebee: prime example of how atheists are not automatically superior to xtians for beliefs/reasoning ability.

  10. Creating conflict out of willful misunderstandings with friends and family members, then demanding that the partner take their side in the conflict, is one of the most common isolating techniques that abusers use.

  11. Erin Pizzey… back in the day, I worked for Women’s Aid, both at a local level and at the national office. She ran Refuge, I think, based mostly in London. She was a very contentious figure as she wanted to appropriate the entire refuge movement as her invention and made some pretty problematic statements. She was not well liked within the broader, more regional and grassroots based collection of organisations that was (and is) Women’s Aid.

  12. Disposable man, I didn’t “dox drop” anyone. Straughan/GWW has started to identify herself with her real name on AVFM. It’s in the bio at the end of her articles, which she wrote herself.

    I like how TheDisposableMan followed the comments just enough to catch Wooly Bumblebee’s real name being used, but not enough to realize that I “doxxed” her by quoting John The Otter.

  13. BigMomma, that’s really interesting about Pizzey. I wish there was more reliable information available about her, especially from her peers.

  14. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    “Poor Daveeeeeed, MRAs, relegated to his their little treefort, raging impotently at the world.”

    FTFY

    Because it’s the MRM raging that women vote. And work. And aren’t forced to choose between marriage and starvation. And own our own property and wages. And are being heard. And know fucking losers when we see you and are free to laugh in your faces.

  15. *votes, works, owns property, laughs in MRA faces*

    Wow, these guys are super easy to beat, aren’t they? I just exploded their hopes and dreams by doing my normal routine. That’s like… wet tissue levels of “easily defeated.”

  16. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Aren’t they just? They think they can stop the world on its axis by threatening to hold their breath till they turn blue.

    Go ahead, sonny, cobalt will suit you perfectly.

  17. @cloudiah, yeah, sorry that my comment is in the realms of anecdata. This was the mid 90s, but i remember Erin being quite prominent at the time. Womens Aid was run collective style with the umbrella organisation of National Women’s Aid, whereas Erin was running a traditional hierarchical management style in London and saying horrendous things about DV and feminism. We were in a phase of shelters being defunded so she was positioning herself very well within the prevailing political trend. We were all so pissed off, as we were campaigning so hard to stay open all over the country. She really distanced herself and was publicly dismissive of the movement’s founding principles. As a result,it felt as if she created a space for hard pressed local government to justify slashing funding.

  18. I lived in London during the time period BigMomma is talking about, and although I never worked directly with Women’s Aid, I knew people who did, and lots of activisty types in general. I never met anyone who had anything good to say about Erin.

  19. @Cassandrasays, yup, that’s my rickety memory too, glad I’m not totally misremembering. Women’s Aid, btw, rather bizarrely had/has its HQ in Bristol. Otherwise we may well have crossed paths. You never went to a Women’s Citizenship conference in Brighton?

  20. Fatrelle’s back with the usual incisive commentary.

  21. Nope, when I was in London I was so in love with the city that I hardly ever left it except to visit family in Scotland. But yeah, I knew a lot of people who were working on women’s issues back in the day, and even then everyone seemed to be side-eyeing Erin. Compare her organization to one like Southall Black Sisters and it’s not hard to see why.

  22. QFT, Cassandra.

  23. I’m surprised no one’s ever written a history of Women’s Aid, even an article. (Or maybe I should say no one other than Pizzey herself.)

    Pizzey seems to have confused feminism with a movement that thinks women are better than men, and therefore her experience being raised by two abusive parents proved that feminism was a lie. Well, if you start from a completely mistaken premise about feminism…

  24. She seems to be confused about a lot of things. The idea that you can deal with domestic violence in a top-down way is just inherently stupid. In reality you need to ask the victims what they need, rather than telling them what you think they should want, and that seems to go against Erin’s fundamental personality.

  25. Southall Black Sisters looks like a totally amazing org. I think I’ll send them some money, just to piss off any lurking MRAs.

  26. Oh, they’re made of awesome. If you were only going to donate to one woman-focused org in the UK, that’s the one I’d recommend.

  27. thenatfantastic

    Seconding the SBS love, great group.

  28. From the original post…

    >> “Women always claim assault, but never accept responsibility for provoking someone.”
    >> That is how abusers think.
    >> It’s also how a lot of MRAs think.

    What you’re saying then…

    Men, the physical abusers, are THE ABUSERS and women, the verbal abusers, liars and manipulators, are the poor victims.

    You suggest that there couldn’t possibly be any provocation by the women. That’s impossible.

    Men, just out of the blue, decide “hey, I’m bored maybe I should just go beat up on my wife for shits and giggles”.

    Your poor argument may appeal to the perma-victim feminist gaggle that follow you but any rational human being can see through your logical leaps.

    Yeah, no. What David is really saying is that abusers often blame the victim for being abused and that many MRAs blame the victims just like abusers do, not that verbally and emotionally abusive women are innocent. And the reality is that abusers choose to be abusive. It doesn’t matter if the woman is verbally abusive – the man has no right to abuse her in retaliation. Same goes for the situation in which the sexes are switched around. Abusers who are deliberately abusive are never innocent. No “provocation” justifies abuse. And abuse is never justified. I’m all for abused people retaliating in self-defense when they are physically attacked by their partners, but such self-defense is not abuse.

    Moreover, you oversimplify the reality of abuse by saying that abusive men spontaneously decide to abuse their partners. They don’t. Abusers have many reasons for abusing their loved ones. The most salient motivation for abuse is the desire to exercise power over others. And then there are people who become abusive due to psychological problems (very often ones arising from past traumatic experiences). And as abusers are individuals, I’m sure there are many reasons they use to “justify” their abuse of others.

    Lastly, I assure you that none of us think that women are permanent victims. This is a lie you and your anti-feminist buddies have made up in order to serve your own agenda. It’s either that or a gross misunderstanding of feminist discourse. And I’m pretty sure that such a misunderstanding is also made in bad faith. Many anti-feminists who think that feminism paints all women as permanent victims are really just lazy critics who don’t really give a shit about understanding feminist discourse.

    Any rational human being can see that you’re definitely one of those people. That you blindly jumped to conclusions in response to Dave’s post is proof of that.

  29. mxe354, that was awesome. Also, you’ve got some hair advice waiting on the Roosh thread, if you’re interested. ;-)

  30. Am I the only one who finds Fatrelle kind of adorable, in a “toothless puppy trying to bite you” kind of way?

  31. Argenti Aertheri

    ec — yeah, he reminds me a bit of my former roommate’s poodle puppy trying to gum me to death. All “aww, you have a cute little fierce don’t you? Come on, get my finger!”

    Danielle — good to know, and Argenti’s fine for me :)

    As for this BS about men don’t just decide to abuse — last time I had an abusive asshole ex, he went from how calling in sick because of insomnia was unacceptable to threatening my life (and then calling my best friend to try preemptively blaming me, that part was hilarious)

  32. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Argenti, come over to the combat zone thread, there is the dumbest of dumb trolls flailing around. :D

  33. ——-“Poor Daveeeeeed, MRAs, relegated to his their little treefort, raging impotently at the world.”

    FTFY

    Because it’s the MRM raging that women vote. And work. And aren’t forced to choose between marriage and starvation. And own our own property and wages. And are being heard. And know fucking losers when we see you and are free to laugh in your faces.———

    MRAs are influncing legislation in countries across the world. The spectre of feminsim is diminishing, thanks to our efforts. What is Little David doing other than posting on his shitty little blog? Maybe he’s aiming to lose his virginity.

  34. MRAs are influncing legislation in countries across the world. The spectre of feminsim is diminishing, thanks to our efforts.

    Much to the chagrin of anyone who has an ounce of decency and actually cares about helping out men without screwing over women.

    What is Little David doing other than posting on his shitty little blog? Maybe he’s aiming to lose his virginity.

    This is some of the most pathetic trolling I have ever seen.

  35. What is “influncing legislation” – it sounds like legislation fail. :)

    LOL at the spectre of feminism, which would make MRAs what, James Bond?

  36. I guess that feminsim is a simulation of feminism, maybe part of some sort of VR experience?

  37. Argenti Aertheri

    Kitteh, so there! :)

    Re: Fatrelle, dude, seriously? Apparently that whole thing about the ACA covering birth control even if the employer is religious never happened, and we aren’t still fighting the BS that is pharmacists being able to deny the morning after pill, personhood amendment shit? Never happened either!

    To everyone else — my not-an-ex is a pharmacy student who finds that to be a smear on zir profession, so yeah, there are still pharmacists who remember wtf their job is (or pharm students anyways)

  38. “You suggest that there couldn’t possibly be any provocation by the women. That’s impossible… Your poor argument may appeal to the perma-victim feminist gaggle that follow you but any rational human being can see through your logical leaps.”

    You do understand that abusive behavior is, by definition, the behavior of the abuser and not the person who is abused, right? (Of course you don’t, but everyone else reading does. That’s because some people actually do logic.)

    I want someone to give me a dollar every time a troll does a drive by “You don’t haz logic” while not engaging with logic at all.

  39. I want someone to give me a dollar every time a troll does a drive by “You don’t haz logic” while not engaging with logic at all.

    I have a full-time job with insurance/benefits, but I am unable to commit to this financial expense. It happens too damn often!

  40. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    “What is “influncing legislation” – it sounds like legislation fail.”

    Sounds like an ingrown flounce, which pretty much summarises the MRM.

    As for fathead’s claim of the MRM influencing legislation around the world – sorry, nope. Not happening. The anti-women countries were never remotely feminist. My country is better than some, has a long way to go, but even the worst of our conservative politicians would laugh you morons to scorn if they’d ever heard of you.

  41. TheDisposableMan

    @David Futrelle
    “extremely problematic victim blaming”

    I get it. Your site -> Your rules. However, feminists have been using “victim blaming” as excuse to silence debate for a very long time. If you’re asserting that in all altercations between a man and a woman the victim is always the woman and she is always 100% blameless then you won’t have to ban me. I’ll leave voluntarily.

    If this is not your assertion and furthermore you allow challenges to your assertions/axioms then I look forward to further debate.

  42. DisposableMan, are you really this obtuse? It has nothing to do with women “always being right” or men “always being wrong.” The point is that NO ONE DESERVES ABUSE. Male or female.

    Abused people, male or female, are not responsible for the abuse they suffer. Their abusers are.

    Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.

    Yes, there is such a thing as verbal abuse. But the answer to verbal abuse is not physical abuse.

    Of course, in most cases of abuse, there is no “provocation” that exists outside the mind of the abuser. That’s simply a rationalization for the abuse that the abuser wanted to inflict.

  43. Disposable, we each are in control of our own behaviors. When a person is being verbally abusive to you, you have the option and the right to determine how you respond/react. Your “blame the women” mentality shines through even to my fogged brain. Stop blaming others for your inability to control yourself. Take responsibility for once in your life.

  44. TheDisposableMan

    @mxe354 et al.

    OK, I take a “mia culpa” because after re-reading my own post. My point wasn’t as clear as I had intended and it is clear that after reading your post as well as others we’re talking past each other. Furthermore my tone probably invited some of the vitriol I got in return.

    I acknowledge that (1) there are men that chronically abuse women, this abuse is wrong and as a moral society we should work to prevent it, (2) these chronically abusive men tend to use physical abuse and so their victims can and do suffer serious injuries up to and including death, (3) these chronically abusive men try to justify their actions by blaming their victims for the abuse they perpetrate.

    Contentious bit:

    My assertion is that, in North America at least, these chronically abusive men are rare especially with respect to the group I was clumsily referring to in my first post: chronically abusive women.

    Chronically abusive women tend to use verbal abuse, lying to manipulate or defraud and destruction of personal property instead of physical abuse although slapping, pinching, kicking and thrown objects are not uncommon.

    Firstly, the abuse perpetrated by women is often seen as, if not acceptable, at least permissible. If you disagree, try to slap a man in public. You’ll probably get giggles if not cheers from the public. A man hitting a woman…well lets hope he can run fast.

    Secondly, the abuse perpetrated by women is pervasive, chronic and often low-intensity and subconscious. Evidence for this is indirect but easily demonstrable in how men describe their relationship with these abusive women: “nag, nag, nag”, “it’s just easier to do whatever she wants”, “I wouldn’t want to sleep in the dog house”, etc. It is remarkable that such comments are almost never made by women about their relationships with men. Also the pervasiveness of male self seclusion from their abusers provides further indirect evidence.

    Thirdly, abused men don’t have socially acceptable, gender appropriate support mechanisms to deal with the abuse perpetrated on them by women. With a feminist’s perspective, you may be unable to appreciate the difficulty a man would have finding support for the abuse of being repeatedly called a loser, having household items thrown at him and periodically having his clothes burned in the backyard.

    Consequently, the only avenue for these many abused men is to “be a man, grin and bear it”. Eventually, however, some men after being hit in the head for the umpteenth time just snap and retaliate in the most instinctual, primal way, with violence.

    TLDR; Also the crux of my argument..

    When you read about a man force feeding a woman a ring you see a “Chronically Abusive Man”. I don’t jump to that conclusion when reading the same material. I give him the benefit of doubt that this could just be him snapping after potentially years of abuse by the “Chronically Abusive Woman”.

    Now to address your assertion that despite the abuse perpetrated on a man he has no excuse to retaliate with violence. This is a reasonable demand for a feminist to make of an ideal feminized man but is totally unrealistic of an actual man. This post is too long as it is. I’ll have to defend my last statement somewhere else.

  45. TheDisposableMan

    >> Abused people, male or female, are not responsible for the abuse they suffer. Their abusers are.

    This is something you tell some abused person to make YOU feel better. The relationship between the abuser and the abused is complex especially if the abuse is chronic over a lengthy period. To make an absolutist statement about such a thing is irresponsible.

    >> Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.

    That’s feminist dogma. I DO accept that after a hundred years of indoctrination it has become culturally and legally normative at least in the United States. However, if you were to account for biology, anthropology and psychology it is neither plain nor simple.

    I recognize that you either believe these statements are self evidently true and you don’t need to prove them or you wish these statements were universally accepted as true and you shouldn’t have to defend them. However, although I accept them as mostly true, there is nuance in there interpretation.

  46. TheDisposableMan

    @ Tina
    >>Stop blaming others for your inability to control yourself. Take responsibility for once in your life.

    I think David Futrelle would like a word with you.

    >> Abused people, male or female, are not responsible for the abuse they suffer. Their abusers are.

  47. My assertion is that, in North America at least, these chronically abusive men are rare especially with respect to the group I was clumsily referring to in my first post: chronically abusive women.

    Citation needed. Please provide evidence to support your assertion. And by evidence, I don’t mean bumpluck.

  48. The disposable man keeps responding to arguments I don’t see being presented here.

  49. >> Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.

    That’s feminist dogma. I DO accept that after a hundred years of indoctrination it has become culturally and legally normative at least in the United States. However, if you were to account for biology, anthropology and psychology it is neither plain nor simple.

    Please clarify. Are you saying that if someone says something “provoking” to their partner, the partner should be able to hit them? Who gets to define what “provoking” is? Who gets to decide how hard the hit is, whether it can be with a weapon, fist, slap only, etc? Is there a sliding scale? Or is it just “might is right”?

    Or, more likely, do you like to speak, whether that speech is considered or not?

  50. This guy is the internet equivalent of the dude who stands on Market Street in San Francisco with the sign that demands the impeachment of all the dead presidents, or the other sign which is all about how the Dalai Lama keeps slaves. No answer is necessary or expected, he just wants a platform on which to rant.

  51. I see the Disposable Idiot is a full-fledged member of the abuser’s lobby. Dude, we can see your faux reasonable “two sides” bullshit for what it is. We’re not as dumb as you.

  52. Sweet Dreams 893

    David…thank you for highlighting these people who are part of the problem of domestic violence.

  53. Now to address your assertion that despite the abuse perpetrated on a man he has no excuse to retaliate with violence. This is a reasonable demand for a feminist to make of an ideal feminized man but is totally unrealistic of an actual man. This post is too long as it is. I’ll have to defend my last statement somewhere else.

    I just told you that a person being physically abused has the right to engage in physical self-defense. Ze just doesn’t have the right to abuse anyone in retaliation because abuse is never, ever justified. Abuse and self-defense are not the same thing.

    Also, “actual man” as opposed to “ideal feminized man?” Maybe you should take a good look at your own bigotry before you try to talk about the plight of male victims of domestic abuse.

    When you read about a man force feeding a woman a ring you see a “Chronically Abusive Man”. I don’t jump to that conclusion when reading the same material. I give him the benefit of doubt that this could just be him snapping after potentially years of abuse by the “Chronically Abusive Woman”.

    Forcing someone to swallow a ring is not self-defense. That’s abuse. It doesn’t matter if it’s because he “snapped”; he has no justification for doing that, and no one is forcing him to do that somehow. He chose to be an abusive asshole.

  54. Self-defense implies that there is a threat which one is defending oneself from. What threat requires or even suggests that a response of “make person eat ring” would be a reasonable and/or effective form of self-defense?

  55. This is a reasonable demand for a feminist to make of an ideal feminized man but is totally unrealistic of an actual man.

    If I were a man, I’d be really fucking offended by this assertion that I am inherently violent and cannot be expected to behave in a civilized manner. I hope the men I know won’t mind me being offended on their behalf (or maybe they’re just ~feminized~, whatever that means)

  56. Also, thinking about this whole “she abused him first!” thing, I wonder how many abusers prefer partners who are argumentative or rude because it provides an excuse for the beatings?

  57. MRA logic.

    “Honey, could you try to remember to mow the lawn this weekend? You’ve been saying that you were going to for the last few weeks and it’s starting to look kind of unkempt.”

    Abuse! Nagging is the worst form of domestic violence there is!

    Punching someone in the face because they said something that upset you – totally understandable, you can’t blame the guy for defending himself. Unless the person doing the punching is a woman, in which case obviously that’s real abuse.

  58. Cassandra, while I agree that many MRAs are part of the abusers’ lobby, I don’t think that TheDisposableMan is talking about nagging. Ze is talking about verbal abuse, which isn’t mere nagging. Nevertheless, verbal abuse is not something that can be justifiably countered with violence.

  59. I was thinking of the sort of relationship where Person A yells “and you still haven’t mown the goddamn lawn like you said you would! Why don’t you get off your ass and do some work around this house?”, at which point Person B can feel justified in shoving Person A.

    IDK, I’m just speculating, but I wonder if there are abusers who choose slightly aggressive partners so they can feel justified in escalating to insults or violence.

  60. mxe, I think Cassandra’s point is that many MRAs and abuse apologists have a very broad definition of “verbal abuse”. I have actually seen people say that nagging is a form of verbal abuse and justifies physical violence.

  61. He actually used the word “nag” in one of his comments, and characterized it as a form of abuse. Also apparently women “subconsciously” abuse their partners.

    “Secondly, the abuse perpetrated by women is pervasive, chronic and often low-intensity and subconscious. Evidence for this is indirect but easily demonstrable in how men describe their relationship with these abusive women: “nag, nag, nag”, “it’s just easier to do whatever she wants”, “I wouldn’t want to sleep in the dog house”, etc. It is remarkable that such comments are almost never made by women about their relationships with men.”

  62. The reason that women don’t complain about their male partners “nagging” them is that “nagging” is a gendered term that can mean pretty much anything up to and including “talking”. I’ve heard requests for partners to help with housework described as nagging. “Please remember to pick up your socks and put them in the laundry basket rather than leaving them on the floor” – nagging.

    Putting stuff like that in the same category as actual violence and using it to justify the violence is a trick that abusers have been pulling for a long time.

  63. I’ve heard requests for partners to help with housework described as nagging. “Please remember to pick up your socks and put them in the laundry basket rather than leaving them on the floor” – nagging.

    Yup. This one is so pervasive and ingrained that I actually apologize to my (male) partner for asking him to clean up after himself. It’s so annoying!

  64. My favorite abuser’s lobby argument is the one that calls women “withholding sex” a form of emotional abuse. Don’t want to fuck your partner for a while for some reason? You’re now an abuser.

  65. TheDisposableMan

    Thanks for the responses. I hope everyone noticed I made a conscious effort to be civil and non-accusatory in my posts.

    The careful reader would have noticed that in my response to David’s assertions…

    >> Abused people, male or female, are not responsible for the abuse they suffer.
    and
    >> Even if someone, male or female, says something “provoking” to their partner, male or female, that partner *doesn’t get to hit them*. Plain and simple.

    my response was…

    >> However, although I accept them as MOSTLY TRUE, there is nuance in their interpretation.*
    *corrected grammar, emphasis added.

    I never said that reacting violently to abuse is a “right” nor did I say it shouldn’t be punished nor did I say as a moral society we don’t need to reduce the incidences of this behavior.

    What I did say is that one day an abused man “snapping” and responding with disproportionate violence is normal abused male behavior – the abuse metered out on him should be considered, where evidence warrants it, for at least partial justification whenever you see a news story of a man assaulting a woman. (NOTICE: I didn’t say he had a right.)

    What you often see in the news is “Man beats up wife; sends her to hospital, man arrested”. What you don’t see is for the last two years she would routinely slap him on the back of the head and called him an idiot at every turn. Key point here, the man’s reaction was not self defense (at least not in a strict legal sense), I never claimed that it was. Her abuse was never life threatening but it was cumulative. His reaction was disproportionate to the latest incidence of abuse and irrational but these burdens are never placed on female victims of abuse.

    OK, I’m done with this thread. There are other threads I’d like to comment on. If you still have a beef with something I said (which I suspect some of you may) we can attempt to resolve it there. You have the last word if you choose to use it.

    One last thing…

    @Sweet Dreams 893

    >>David…thank you for highlighting these people who are part of the problem of domestic violence.

    I don’t want to seem presumptuous but I deserve a little credit too, no?

  66. So much angry… I can’t even.

    To the author of that awful article, who the f*ck do you think you are? As an abuse survivor, I don’t need help blaming myself for what happened to me. My silly overthinking brain does that perfectly fine on its own, thank you.

    Rationally, I know it wasn’t my fault. In my case (in two of my cases), I was a little kid who couldn’t possibly consent. Tell that to the voices in my brain.

    If I punch someone in the face, it wouldn’t be because someone made me do it. I’ve been blindingly livid many times in my life, but have never physically abused someone ONCE. I’ve screamed at people before, but not with the intent to control them or make them feel like dirt. I have some f*cking self-control, which I expect from all rational adults, especially those I choose to date.

    Abuse, including rape, is all about the abuser’s need to feel powerful and to exert that power over someone else. It’s not about liking kinky sex. It’s not about how much the victim turns the abuser on or how much the victim irritates the abuser. It’s about power. Full stop.

    To keep things sane, if you honestly and truly like the kinky stuff, perhaps safety words, agreements and/or out-clauses should be involved instead of unexpected violence or forced sex. *shudder*

    This is who an abuser is: http://www.domesticviolence.org/who-are-the-abusers/

    Why the hell are you trying to rationalize and excuse the behaviour of abusers? F*ck you for being so damn patronizing.

    P.S. You’ll notice that I didn’t use any specific genders at all in the main part of this post. Even though I am female and the most damaging abuse I suffered was from four separate males, I’m not going to let that make me assume that all victims of abuse are female and all abusers are males. I know better than that. The MRA needs to stop turning everything into a stupid gender war just because. This attitude of “Well women do it, too, so it’s okay” is childish, stupid, and doesn’t solve anything. IT IS NOT OKAY. ABUSE IS BAD AND RETALIATION IS NOT THE ANSWER. Done and done.

  67. TheDisposableMan

    OK, I made one last cursory glance at the responses to my post and I’d like to add one more thing (I’m a hypocrite, I know, because I said in my previous post that it would be my last. Being a hypocrite is just part of my male burden I guess.)

    Anyway…

    When I said abused men say things like “nag, nag, nag” and “I don’t want to be in the dog house” to describe the verbal abuse perpetrated against them to their friends, they are using clichéd euphemisms to describe language from their abuser like “You worthless piece of shit, why do I have to do everything” and “If you ever do that again I’ll cut your dick off”.

    Just to be clear I’m talking about abused men not all men. When most men say these things they’re not describing abusive language just as was mentioned, “Please pick you socks up off the floor.”

    Off point but needs to be said…

    Even though I know that most, if not all of you, vehemently disagree with my views, I do appreciate that at least some of you consider what I have to say and respond thoughtfully. I apologize for the invective nature of my first few posts (see glossary) but I was expecting to be labeled as “troll” and perma-banned (ip blocked) almost instantly as has been my experience on other pro-feminist sites.

  68. Whoever coined the term “abusers lobby” thanks that was genius, and Disposable Perspective here does not understand prioritizing but loves the false equivocations. He’s a perfect example of abuser’s lobby, someone should start a wiki entry and use his posts as examples.

  69. Shorter disposable bore: what about the menz?

  70. They can’t help themselves, they’re suffering from menz rea. It’s similar to diarrhoea, but the fingers are the body part affected.

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