Pickup Artistry, Victorian Style
(Click on image for a larger version.)
I ran across this remarkable painting, titled “The Irritating Gentleman,” on Sheltered and Safe From Sorrow, a blog devoted to Victorian mourning rituals and other creepiness from that period. The gentleman in question seems to be a Victorian era Pickup Artist in action. He’s even peacocking, Mystery style, with that bow tie and stupid hat and even a non-ironic handlebar moustache. Probably the only thing keeping him from wearing aviator goggles is the fact that airplanes haven’t yet been invented.
What makes it all the worse is that the PUA’s target is clearly in mourning. As the blogger behind rawr I’m a tumblr notes:
She’s wearing all black in 1874. Black gloves, hat, cloak, and dress. In public. The whole nine yards. That’s not a fashion choice or a gothic thing. Back then when people wore all black like that, they were in mourning for someone who died. No one did mourning like the Victorians, that shit was an art form to them.
Someone in her family has died—she could even be a young widow. No one’s accompanying her either. With the carpet bag? She’s traveling alone while still in deep mourning. Look at the closeup. She’s got tears in her eyes. She is upset, devastated in a way that one is only when someone has died. And the guy’s still bothering her, like her problems are flippant bullshit and she needs to just smile or pay attention to him because ladies are supposed to be pleasing for men no matter what shit they’re going through. That’s not a look of “what an ass.” That’s a look of devastation that even in her pain, she’s expected to give people like him focus. She’s not mad. She’s hurt. And to add insult to injury? Everyone would be able to tell. It was a clear sign and still is in ways that someone is mourning, to dress in black crepe like that. He would know why she’s wearing all black, and he’s still demanding her attention.
What an insufferable dick.
Yep.
Posted on January 12, 2013, in creepy, douchebaggery, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, PUA, sexual harassment and tagged art, misogyny, pickup artists, PUA, victorian era. Bookmark the permalink. 493 Comments.
@Podkayne
Looks like a purse.
Podkayne – I think it’s a purse. If you blow the pic up you can see a gold edge, perhaps a hinge, on it. There were some seriously gorgeous purses and handbags made around that time. /end fashion derail
Cassandra, that sounds like good news overall, then!
Article in The Age today mentioned that Saville’s family put up a huge headstone for him with every bit of praise imaginable … but when all these things came out, they had it smashed up and ground into landfill.
@lowquacks Then in my mind I’m going to be imagining her socking him with it, because that is a better scenario in my mind than in all my years of awkward train rides.
I haven’t seen any articles trying to excuse or defend Savile in the media, it’s the comments on articles that are the problem. This one is a good example.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/11/jimmy-savile-report-turning-point?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
For Savile’s family I do have some compassion, since most of them seemed to have no idea what was going on. Taking down the gravestones was the right thing to do. His mother, on the other hand, seems to have known, which…well, we’re back to people sometimes being monsters again there.
Fashion derail – this is my absolute favourite handbag. It’s from 1889 and I can never get over how modern it looks.
http://collections.vam.ac.uk/item/O75551/handbag-unknown/
http://www.morbidoutlook.com/fashion/historical/2001_03_victorianmourn.html
All the coverage about Seville I’ve seen in aus is a bout the disgrace that he was protected. None has been anti victim, maybe we are finally growing up?
I mean Saville not the oranges :-)
That site reminds me of when I saw one of Victoria’s full mourning dresses in an exhibtion. It was entirely covered in crepe, IIRC, and utterly plain – it hit the eye as a perfect expression of her grief, especially in comparison with more ornate dresses.
Interesting thing I read in a book on her clothes (In Royal Fashion by Kay Staniland) was that she wasn’t strictly speaking in mourning for fourty years, as is often said. In her later life she was simply wearing the clothes of a wealthy, elderly woman – who would often enough wear black anyway – with a slight nod to the fashionable lines of the day.
I highly recommend that book, btw. It’s from an exhibition of Victoria’s and Princess Charlotte of Wales’s clothes and the photos are stunning.
Let us take a moment to acknowledge that someone who is unwelcome and not at all liked continually comes into the space in which he is unwelcome to tell the people who don’t like him about how irrational they’re being for discussing Victorian mourning traditions.
Also, that’s not how Poe’s law works. FYI.
At my grandpa’s funeral last year, some family friend thought it was the perfect time to flirt with me (and not exactly appropriately either). My aunt once told a story about something similar happening at her mother-in-law’s funeral. Are mourning women special PUA targets? Perhaps they are already sufficiently negged by their grief. I must consult the pick up artist forums!
@ Fed Up With the M-sphere
Yes yes yes yes yes. I hate it when men on the street tell me to “smile.” I have a resting face. I see no reason why it has to appeal to your boner.
I wonder what Joe thinks people do in art history classes, or does he think those are imaginary? Oh, well, he’s probably drunk drive-by posting anyway.
I’ve probably said this here before, but the most aggressive and intrusive street harrassment I’ve encountered in years was in the week or two after my old cat died, when I was walking around quite visible grieving (lots of tears, a facial expression that had even the coldest co-workers ask me if I was OK). During that time period the harrassment amped up to a level that I hadn’t experienced since my early to mid teens. So my theory is that it’s about perceived vulnerability – predatory people know that the target isn’t in the right state of mind to be able to fight back effectively.
Joe’s trying to keep up the fine old tradition of “being an entitled dickhead who thinks it’s his God-given right to impose himself on women” exemplified by Mr Crass Red Tie.
@ CassandraSays
I’m sorry you had to put up with that. I think you’re right about the vulnerability. I’ve certainly noticed a lot more harassment when I’m walking alone or with arms full of groceries than when I’m walking in a group or something.
The grocery thing! That’s happened to me too. Also once when I was taking out the (very heavy) trash after cleaning most of my apartment, which was particularly lulzy – dude, really? When your target is sweaty and dirty and carrying a bag full of cat shit?
If my worst street harassment is any indicator of male preference, then apparently guys love SUPER SUNBURNED gals.
Also, I actually did go to the pick up forums and well…
At least the second poster had a reasonable response.
Now I can’t stop looking at that creepy Victorian Tumblr. I found another good potential Manboobz illustration:
https://www.artfinder.com/work/dollbreakers-detail-charles-j-staniland/
“Dollbreakers”!
@Fed Up With the M-Sphere and JustACheeto – it’s even worse than random blokes expecting women to be all bright and smiling and fuck-me welcoming. Women do the “Are you all right? You look worried/sad/angry!” stuff too. My mum and I have had a lifetime of that because our faces at rest are anything but cheerful-looking, regardless of our moods. I’ve never been hit on for that (I’m lucky enough to have had very little harassment at all)* but we’ve both had plenty of acquaintances or workmates come out with that line.
Being extra harassed while grieving or vulnerable – argh, excuse me while I puke. Curious thing, I read an article many years ago where a woman mentioned getting this sort of “Give us a smile, love” shit from guys in the street (workmen, specifically, I think). She used to snap back at them, “Actually, my mother just died” and she said they were always taken aback and apologetic – she’d suddenly gone from nameless sex object to person with a life. Can’t see it working when someone’s targetting you when they know or can see you’re distressed, though.
*isn’t it stupid and rarrrrgh that “not being treated like potentially fuckable meat” is “lucky” instead of “baseline expectation”.
OT to anyone who helped out with my necklace questions yesterday – it’s done, wanna see a photo?
@Kitteh: another lovely photo of your costume skills, And a beach scene too!
@JustACheeto: yes, I had a guy I had never met face-to-face show up to my father’s funeral to pick me up. Friends of mine ran interference thank goodness, and it was made VERY clear that he wasn’t welcome at the wake, nor would he be welcome to contact me in the future either. When someone dies, I have never thought “the funeral will be the perfect place to hit on the bereaved”. Just WTF?
On the painting, are those grey gloves on the seat opposite her? She has her gloves in her lap, so I guess they’re not her’s. Also, I couldn’t tell from the perspective whether they would be too large for her, and was wondering if they were male gloves, for someone who was not grieving.
@Kitteh, we pasted in posting. I would LOVE to see your necklace.
Pls show me the picture!
Kiwi girl – I think the grey thing on the seat is another shawl or blanket. It looks too bulky to be gloves, and there’s more fringing on the edge of it.
That pic of Miss McIver was taken at Urquhart Castle on the shore of Loch Ness. I’ve never been so cold and windswept, and I was worried she’d get blown off that ledge before I could get the pic. She was mega-popular in Scotland, what with her tartan dresses and all. The locals couldn’t believe she was a little Aussie. One guy asked to take her photo ‘cos her face looked like his real kitty. :)
And here is the necklace!
Excellent! Well done you!
Thank you! :)
@Kitteh thanks and thanks. The necklace is lovely, is it double-stranded or do you have it looped?
Thank you also! :)
It’s looped. It was long enough to do so before, but it’s longer with the links instead of thread, which is good. Any necklace I wear has to work with my locket with Mr K’s pic in it.
Had the funniest moment the other day when I was buying a ring. Shop assistant noticed locket, asked who it is (it’s a glass-fronted one so you can see the pic). I said “My other half” and her expression went from interest to a sort of “Oooh” pursed-lips-raised-eyebrows-lucky-you one. :D
I love the mourning hair brooches and necklaces. It’s interesting how many of the sci fi authors, ( good ones) add Victorian steam punk themes, especially Gibson, Gaiman and Mieville.
There’s an interesting comparison in railway + mourning in Abraham Solomon’s Second Class: the Parting from 1854. The family’s obviously respectable, but probably cash-strapped – the young boy is off to Australia to try to make his fortune, most likely at the goldfields.
I’d guess family, because women that young tended to be unmarried, esp. in the comfortable bourgeoisie. Looking at the style of dress it’s in Central Europe (and the artiste seems not to have left Germany, certainly the rest of his work is clearly German in subject matter), which moves the age of complete mourning down some.
So he’s even creepier.
His hat is middle class, at best. It’s a peaked cloth, not a felted wool/satin. The band is decent, but overall his look is more striving than settled.
lowquacks: The tartan “blanket” looks more like an overcoat draped over the back of the seat to me
That was my first thought, but I found some larger images (it is a moderately well known painting, and last sold for about $50,000US). It’s some sort of lap rug/throw. The only structure appears to be folds, and it has fringe on the selvage.
Uncle Joe: Bwahahhahahahaaa! RAGE! Rage against (very beautifully painted) fictional scene set nearly 150 years ago!! Dissect it for meaning as tho’ it was a photograph taken yesterday!
Bwahahhahahahaaa! CLUELESS, Clueless in the very present tense. It’s not rage, and it’s not about the event in the past. It’s analysis of how jerks and assholes like him are with us still. Never mind that your appreciation of art (apart from thinking it’s pretty) fails to appreciate that, because it wasn’t a photograph, paintings said something.
It might (as with a still life) be as simple as, “the world is beautiful”, but it might (as with Breughel’s “Icarus” be about how the life of the peasant goes on, no matter what, “momentous” events are happening elswhere.
Here is seems to be, “Dickwads have no sense of decency”
But I do agree, there are some clear examples of Poe’s Law to be found here.
The more I look at that man’s face in the enlarged pic, the creepier and more gloatingly predatory he looks. It’s all the worse because between being physically unable to get away and the massive social conditioning on how well-bred women were meant to behave, there is nothing she can do about it.
Also look at the body language. He knows that she’s uncomfortable, she’s curling into the corner and has placed her bag as a (not very effective) shield between herself and the rest of the carriage, and still he persists with a big shit-eating grin on his face.
I’m guessing that the artist must have witnessed some pretty obvious harassment, to be able to depict it so accurately.
Yes, exactly. Grandfather Roissy is gloating about the whole situation.
And it’s not like he seems to he thinking terms of a seduction – I doubt that would be considered possible in that situation. I’m pretty sure he’s harassing her for its own sake, for the pleasure of frightening and distressing her.
Very little public harassment is intended as an attempt at seduction, in my opinion. The usual goal is to get a rise out of someone.
I was thinking more in terms of other Victorian paintings where there’s an overlap. There’s one where a woman’s evidently lost a lot of money at a casino, and a man is evidently offering cash for sex. It came to mind because the arrangement of the figures is similar to this. I’ll have a scout round and see if I can find it. But yes, public harassment is definitely about other things than seduction, however the slime of the MRM and PUA want to pretend it isn’t.
I suppose Owly would say that girl was assaulting the poor fellow with her seductive youth and that revealing black gown.
Here it is – On the Brink by Alfred Elmore.
There’s nothing you feminists hate more than a heterosexual man that is confident is his sexuality.
Except of course for “nice guys”.
The woman in that looks about 12…
@RomanCandle
“confident in his sexuality” =/= “raging creep”
kthanx bai
Hey, don’t you admire men who’re confident in their right to be creeps?
Misandrist.
hth
It’s great how “shaming male sexuality” or similar seems to always mean “telling people they’re being creeps”, as if male sexuality had something to do with intimidation or harassment.
And by “great” I mean “terrible”.
as if male sexuality had something to do with intimidation or harassment
But, you see, MRAs. PUAs, and all the associated misogynists who float around at the edges of the manosphere think that intimidation and harassment are universal components of male sexuality. They’re not even secretive about it, because they believe that it’s an obvious fact that everyone except feminists agrees with them about, and that anyone who objects to intimidation or harassment or bullying women into sex is objecting to men having any sexuality at all, because their reasoning is so circular that they’ve turned into the Uroboros.
MRA’s are quite different to the Ouroboros, actually. The ouroboros has its ass inside its head.
Nice work on the necklace, Kitteh! That seems like it would take a long time??
I am totally amazed at all you people with very specific knowledge about information relative to this painting. It’s funny because art history always seemed like THE MOST BORING THING EVER, but this discussion is really interesting!
It pretty much fits with my theory that everything in the world is interesting if you do it right.
“There’s nothing you feminists hate more than a heterosexual man that is confident is his sexuality.”
Being a misogynist, creepy asshole could be a way of being confident in one’s sexuality, but it’s a kind of confidence no decent human being would ever encourage because, you know, people who are like that are awful human beings. It’s quite easy for a man to be confident in his sexuality while still being a decent person. It happens all the fucking time.
“Except of course for ‘nice guys’.”
Ah, yes, the guys who think that nice things done for women should be rewarded with physical and/or emotional intimacy with those women. I sure am unreasonable for thinking that they’re whiny, misogynistic shitstains.
“Bwahahhahahahaaa! RAGE! Rage against (very beautifully painted) fictional scene set nearly 150 years ago!! Dissect it for meaning as tho’ it was a photograph taken yesterday!”
Do you understand this blog post? Do you even understand the damn painting? Or do you just want to act like you’re some witty and interesting MRA?
The meaning of this painting is so fucking obvious that you barely have to even try to understand it.
@Kittehhelp
I feel unqualified to say anything on necklaces but that’s a fab tattoo!
But wait a minute, guys, the patriarchy DOES construct male sexuality as something that’s intertwined with violence (harassment and creep-ness fall under that umbrella). It’s absolutely no surprise that when you decry the violence part of it, MRAs think that you’re trying to deny them their entire sexuality. Without the violence, there is no patriarchal male sexuality, it just can’t stand on its legs that way.
(And since I’m a radical feminist, I think that the only way to fix male sexuality is to dismantle the patriarchy, the other way around won’t work, there’s no incentive for most men to try to build a new male sexuality because the male sexuality as it is right now has the overwhelming societal support. (Including the support of most women, unfortunately.))
Which reminds me… just now I had a rather creepy moment when my flatmate and her friend casually remarked that they both were kinda glad that her first child’s going to be a boy… because “You don’t have to worry about them getting raped or anything…”
Jesus christ. Is this really something that should cross people’s mind when they’re talking about their first child’s future life?
Hrovitnir – thank you! It didn’t take as long as I expected, about eight hours, maybe? I did it yesterday and today and didn’t really keep time, but it wouldn’t have been longer than that. Once I got the hang of curling the wires it was pretty easy, and most of today’s work was fiddling around re-arranging the beads so they colours balanced the way I wanted. (Forward planning? What’s that?)
I know what you mean about art history, it was pretty damn boring in school (high school back in the 70s, ’nuff said). I think Victorian painting’s a good place to start in a way, because so much of it was about narrative, whether it’s genre painting or social commentary or whatever. They loved a picture to tell a story, and has already been said, the works were in a language and scattered with clues the audience would read. Picking out the clues when they’re not familiar is fun, I think.
Plus of course it means one can talk CLOTHES! :D
lowquacks – thank you! I’m very fond of that tattoo. It’s Mr K’s signature, I got it from one of his letters. Had it about seven years. (You should see my mum’s tattoo – Michael Schumacher’s logo on her arm. Threw my aunt completely when she first saw it.)
Oh my, so feminists hate confident hetero men? I guess all the feminists here who’re in relationships with confident hetero men better hand in their feminism cards, or tell the blokes they’re not Really Confident In Their Sexuality because they don’t feel the need to hit on grieving teenage girls who are young enough to be their daughters.
Funny, I’d have thought part of being a confident man – whatever his sexuality and in whatever situation – would be that he’s not shit-scared of half the human race and projecting that fear into hate. That’s not Confident Hetero, that’s Loser.
I was wondering what trolling the post could possibly generate, but evidently the subject just doesn’t matter: shitlords gon’ shit.
@Cassandra:
I remember that… I think it was after I wrote about how I was harassed all the time when I had just moved to Stockholm from the countryside, and kept looking at maps all the time to find my way around. When I invented the trick of pretending to know where I was going all the time (even if that sometimes meant having to turn and go back again, since I ended up the wrong spot, and then look at a map when there were less people around) the harassment dropped drastically. So although it’s not the only factor that make men harass women, I do think “perceived vulnerability” often plays an important part.
So it’s either, “be hated by feminists” or, “have no confidence in my male sexuality.”
Hunh. Here I thought I confident in the one, and liked (even loved) by members of the other. Just goes to show what I don’t know. Apparently I needed a Misogynist to explain to me how miserable, and lacking in confidence I was.
My life is so much better now.
I think I slide through a loophole here – do I have to hand my card in for being one?
You are so right. Except not. You MRAs are such delicate flowers.
hellkell: that is the nub of it. Me, I am confident in my ways of sexual expression (because I can’t tell you what my, “sexuality” is, I’ll phrase it that way). If I am interested in someone, and there doesn’t seem a reason not to, I express it to them. If they aren’t interested, oh well.
The Delicate Flowers who come in here to complain about how “feminism is suppressing Teh Menz!” can’t seem to manage that. The thing is, there are women who like that (there are women who think Meller’s Gor Fantasies are fine). But these morons think all women should have to put up with them, all the time.
The jerk in the painting… nothing (but nothing) stops him from pursuing young blonde women, if that’s his bent. And, all things being equal, I don’t care if he likes young women (of whatever complexion). But all things aren’t equal in that picture.
Which is the PUA in a nutshell. They don’t want things to be equal.
It’s the MRM, in a nutshell. They don’t want things to be equal.
See Abnoy, and his “if you don’t let men treat woman as nothing but objects, the human race will die out”. If he’s right, and it requires treating people like things…. we ought to die out.
“But wait a minute, guys, the patriarchy DOES construct male sexuality as something that’s intertwined with violence (harassment and creep-ness fall under that umbrella). It’s absolutely no surprise that when you decry the violence part of it, MRAs think that you’re trying to deny them their entire sexuality. Without the violence, there is no patriarchal male sexuality, it just can’t stand on its legs that way.”
I get what you’re saying here, but MRAs fail to grasp that “societal norms condition you to understand your sexuality through a lens of violence but that’s not mandatory and it’s actually kind of bad” does not mean “your sexuality can only be violent”.
Your average man, even if he has no experience whatsoever with feminism or sociology, can understand that “this is the way things are” is followed by “because of social conditioning”. MRAs miss that entire second step; all they seem to hear is “this is how male sexuality is… and it’s bad.”
Seriously, I think we should teach sociology 101 in high school as a mandatory class.
Lovely job on the necklace, Kitteh! I love those long style necklaces, but I always found the length (lol!) of time it took to make them a bit frustrating. I hope you get many more compliments on it!!
And thanks everyone for the art history discussion, it’s been absolutely fascinating!
Wow, you guys aren’t just geekery geeks, you’re Victorian geeks as well *feels right at home*
Her hair being down leads me to suspect it’s a parent (or better yet, last living relative, if you want to bring up as much high dwama as possible) for whom she’s in mourning. Score one more for the PUA for hitting on a virgin (in fact, if she were a widow, she’d be considered “experienced” and therefor the picture would inspire far less audience outrage). And I’d judge her social status/income demographic on the carriage class and the fact she’s traveling alone, not on her duds: the latter (especially for non-adults) were often rented rather than shelled-out-for by the lower-middle classes; and in general women (especially unmarried) did *not* travel unattended, and those who could afford a ladies’ maid, nanny, etc would travel with them if there were no suitable family accompaniment.
I think the artist wrote in every possible hand-wringing vulnerability for his subject.
<Is not a Victorian expert, just plays one on the intertubes.
“the loss of whomever she’s mourning has changed her social status”
Very good point of possibility.
@JustACheeto and Cassandra, yes, people who are clearly emotionally vulnerable are particular targets of predators, so I’m not surprised you guys had to go through that : (
Is it just me, or does she look Teutonic, but he doesn’t? Also, am I misreading the painting, or is she painted as breaking the fourth wall?
@Joe
Dude, you can’t goo aroound insisting we have to say “C1A” and then accuse us of being poe-like. I mean,
@Kitteh’s
Love the necklace. Did you decide on the beading pattern as well?
I’ll go back and catch up in a second, but man, that painting is Amazing.
Hmm. 8 hours doesn’t seem too bad, Kitteh.
That is depressing. Pretty major statement about how much of an every day reality the threat of sexual assault is for women.
He looks german to me. He certainly doesn’t look “not-german”, so I don’t think that was the message.
Unless I missed it, no one seems to have commented on the disgruntled man behind Sleazy Buffoon in Bowtie. I like to think he’s about to say something like this:
“Aye, ya stupid git, leave the poor lass alone!”
To everyone observing that they have been harassed more when they are clearly in some way vulnerable I totally agree.
The last couple of times I’ve been harassed were when I was in some way clearly vulnerable.
Once was when I was on my way back from work, I was very tired and was feeling and looking quite ill. I was walking a lot slower than usual and had my arms folded across my chest.
Normally when I’m walking on the street I walk fast, my gaze ahead but not at a level where I’d accidently catch someones eyes, I swing my arms as I walk and I have my “purposeful” face on. Whenever I am not walking and acting like this I am far more likely to be harassed.
The other time recently was when I walking home from the tube station at about 11 at night, it was obviously dark but it was on a main road,well lit and while there weren’t loads of people about there were other pedestrians. But basically, there were three guys walking down the pavement in the opposite direction (ie. towards me) to me and they were spread out so they took up the whole pavement. I would have to walk between them when our paths crossed which obviously as a woman on my own at night I am not going to do as it makes it easy to grab me or block my path or whatever. So what I do is step off the pavement into the gutter to walk past them.
They notice this and they can clearly see that I have assessed them as a potential threat and ma trying to avoid them. Since I’m in the gutter to avoid cars the one walking closest to the edge is still quite close as we pass and as we do so he leans over close to me and says “Hey gorgeous” in that gross leery voice with a big nasty grin on his face.
He was quite clearly not looking to compliment me but to intimidate me, he didn’t even look at me until I very obviously moved out of their way.
He could see that I was made nervous by him and was trying to unnerve me even more.
If I’d just marched straight through them with my arms swinging then they might just have ignored me, but I took the decision to avoid doing so and this guy went out of his way to make an already vulnerable feeling woman feel MORE vulnerable.
I wasn’t actually that freaked out but many people would have been and reasonably so.
@Kittehs, “On the Brink” is pretty creepy, as well.
@hrovitnir
I’m inclined to agree.
Thank you all for an amazing thread of analysis, I think I just learned a ridiculous amount.