Fellas! Better hold on to yourselves, because I’ve got some terrible news for you.
Actually, you’d better NOT hold on to yourselves. Because this is the news, straight from that always 100% reliable news source, the Men’s Rights subreddit:
I wonder if manginal orgasms are still allowed?
Posted on January 8, 2013, in antifeminism, MRA, oppressed men, rape, reddit, sex and tagged men's rights, MRA, reddit, sex. Bookmark the permalink. 777 Comments.
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@Student: Yeah, I’m familiar with the word (originally because of the D&D3.5 class…), I just fail to see how it does anything other than alliterate meaninglessly.
Eugh he is gross!
David Collard
May 11, 2012 at 9:39 am
I am still fond of my synonym for a woman – personette.
Rhymes with serviette – something you use once and then throw away.
oh gog
patronising, creepy and generally unpleasant
Is ‘person’ not good enough? >_>
Lolz at the hilarious misogyny joke that actually isn’t a joke but a thinly-veiled representation of his actual opinion
@The Kittehs’
Alley cats are the best cats. My Shazzer was found in a box with her mom and littermates behind a 7-11 convenience store/gas station. (That’s basically an alley, right?) Her mom apparently wouldn’t leave her kitties and was starving to death, but all the kittens were happy and healthy. Their age was hard to determine because the vet didn’t know if they were undernourished and small or decently nourished and average. I just decided she was 6 weeks (I think the average of the two ages the vet gave, but it has been almost 9 years) because it put her birthday on my anniversary and would thus be easy to remember.
@deezers
I find the “personette” guy about ten times more creepy than stam, I think because it is so close to sounding reasonable (after all, we do have a lot of different words for women) while hiding even more viciousness than the guy who wants to force women on dates. Both don’t consider women to be fully human, but the “joke” guy is so much more upfront about it. I find that terrifying.
The mere fact that Collard’s posts are sometimes tagged with “females” tells you everything you need to know.
Waiting for Libertarians to show up and object to Big Government’s involvement in prostitution, maybe suggest it’d all be better handled by companies like Blackwater or Starbucks and then object to their hard earned money being taxed and taken away from them by actual, literal government whores.
I seem to recall that we had a long conversation about how women would be persuaded to participate in the government girlfriend plan. His theory boiled down to “isn’t is wonderful how we could take advantage of the broken economy and some people’s resulting poverty?”.
That seems like something that libertarians would be all for.
I’ll finish catching up in a minute here, but I only got bout half way through the Schwyzer article before deciding to put down my iPad before I crushed it — co,ing from anyone else I might’ve been able to stand the “this is why women should pander to men’s emotions” long enough to get to where he apparently says “except no they shouldn’t”. From him it just read to much like “maybe I wouldn’t have tried killing my ex if she’d cared more about my feeeeeelings”
No, I cannot take him seriously. Him saying things on feminist sites, in and of itself, makes me see red.
Crazy Kotaku MRA is back! This time with a near novel-length rant on the hardships of men! I would post it, but it’s way too long, so I’ll link to it instead:
http://kotaku.com/5972869/?post=56006916
read the reply to it if you want to see my takedown of all of his points.
Links to the main article, not to a comment.
@CassandraSays
Scroll to the bottom. The comment should be fully expanded. The site layout is pretty shitty.
By the way, YoungZer0 is the MRA, I’m DocTemna.
“Maine Coons are such beautiful cats. I’d love to have one but between the expense and the amount of grooming needed, it ain’t gonna happen.”
I have a Maine Coon, but she might by part something else because she’s a little on the small side for Coons (big for cats, though) and she only gets knots once in a blue moon. She doesn’t need a lot of grooming despite being long-haired.
She was a homeless baby that we adopted from the shelter and now she cuddles and insists on being held like a baby you’re burping (weirdest cat ever) and I swear I caught her reading a newspaper once.
Wtf was that? Wow…
So, I keep amazing psychs that I haven’t been hospitalized (cuz danger to self) dude here is either full of it, or was deemed a danger to others.
And cloudiah’s aVfP script is hilarious.
I’m getting “No Discussions Found”, so no idea which conversation you mean. This is Kotaku after all – expanding all comments means that 90% of them are going to be sexist bullshit.
@Argenti
I’m with you on the Schwyzer article. Maybe if he weren’t who he is, he could get away with burying his point, but he is him. I find him too sympathetic to the horrors of having privilege stripped away. If it feels so horrific, you are still too fucking privileged imo.
I can’t read anything from Hugo anymore without “yes, but you tried to kill your girlfriend because she was raped” repeating over and over in the back of my mind. Makes it a bit hard to take his claims to have empathy for women seriously.
@CassandraSays
If only everyone heard that on a loop when reading his articles. I think it is disgusting that he writes for Jezebel (even with their hit or miss record).
Since the link is not working, I made a pastebin:
http://pastebin.com/VgTyZqiR
It includes the original post and my reply. That should work :D
“That you would invoke any of this shit just to troll makes you pond scum.”
Lower than pond scum, we never did decide on something more harmful than planaria but more common than guinea worm did we? This guy is it, what it is.
Hydra maybe, generally best ignored but might pick off newborn fry who can’t yet defend themselves. That seems about the right level for these guys.
“’Abortion on demand’ is such a stupid framing phrase anyway.” — except if it were truly available on demand it’d probably almost all be early abortion // morning after pill // RU 486 // none of this bullshit about ultrasounds and waiting periods and “on demand” meaning “assuming arbitrary criteria are met” — point here that truly “on demand ” abortion sounds like an improvement to me.
“…including Mr Hadji who was an alley cat – all of three weeks old when Mum found him.”
I iz ded, been killed by teh cute.
It’s particularly annoying that so many people respond with the “everyone makes mistakes” argument. Yes, everyone does, but most people’s relationship mistakes are more “said something nasty in the middle of an argument” or “cheated on ex” and less “tried to kill ex for incredibly misogynistic reasons”.
Could not find YoungZer0, and there was only one DocTemna and that was someone @quoting.
My thought on lady gamers is this: Even if I assume you are right (you are not), and girls only play video games because they’re attention whores (totally not even true) – if you are the kind of person who gets SO DISTRACTED by boobs that you lose your game? You’re a shit gamer.
Regarding Hugo. I think he often makes great points, but you’re right. His past makes anything he says subject to the “poisoning the well” fallacy.
You’d think that seeing so many virtual boobs would desensitize people to the point where the real thing wouldn’t be all that distracting any more.
“Could not find YoungZer0, and there was only one DocTemna and that was someone @quoting.”
Ugh, comments… so… broken…
I have no idea what that guy is referring to. I didn’t write it though.
The pastebin I posted works, I think.
“You’d think that seeing so many virtual boobs would desensitize people to the point where the real thing wouldn’t be all that distracting any more.”
Oh no no! Not according to Kotaku commenters! Boobs apparently have special mind-control over gamers!
It does! I read it.
It makes me really really upset when men see something they don’t like about society and then assume Feminists are running the world so it’s their fault something is the way it is, even if Feminists are actively working towards changing whatever it is they don’t like.
:(
I feel like the problem with Hugo still being allowed to post on places like Jez is less about Hugo himself than about the way that people have responded to the information about what he did in the past by trying to either hand-wave it away or pretend that it doesn’t matter. Attempted murder always matters, especially when the person you tried to kill was a member of the group who you are claiming to be an advocate for. It’s like finding out that someone who’s an advocate for victims of child abuse was a child abuser in the past. It should change the way they’re seen and people’s willingness to accept them as an advocate for the group of people who they behaved so badly towards in the past.
“Sorry, I just can not click those links. Angry incels are the utter worst, normal MRAs tend to excuse rape, these fuckwads actually encourage it.”
Ooo broken sidebar CSS! Didn’t even make it to trying to read the drivel, I have a policy about not supporting bad web design (it’s a bit of a boycott in hopes that if ignored it’ll go away)
Also, that looks horribly lacking in basic humanity, so I’d rather mock the code.
“In a weird way the incel communities remind me of pro-ana communities – the same sort of deliberate exclusion of anyone who might point out the flaws in people’s rationalizations or attempt to force them to confront how completely divergent from the norm their way of seeing things is.”
Curious, you thinking they’re more or less dangerous? I’d agree but the incel communities, by and large, don’t seem to encourage this sort of suicidal ideation the sock showed, while the pro-ana communities do, if not directly them certainly by ignoring how dangerous eating disorders are.
(Christ guys, this thread got long!)
@atomicgrizzly
Wow. That MRA hit practically every talking point except the whines about dating being harder on men and family court judges loving women too much. Good job with each of your points.
I live his list of “could of”s. Especially this: “You don’t know if i’m thin, ugly, fat, dorky, bulky, stupid, or could be poor.” Poor (and “stupid,” though that is a horrible way to get at it) so totally does not belong with thin, ugly and dorky. And what does bulky mean if not fat? Is he saying he could have been born with lots of muscles? o.O
To make it even creepier, sometimes he seems to be trying to sell himself as an ideal advocate for feminist issues BECAUSE he behaved so badly to women and girls in the past (for example the way he tries to frame his history of taking advantage of his academic position and sleeping with students). That way of framing things is just totally ass-backwards.
AMEN. Yesterday he an article about keeping lists of the people you’ve slept with, and he was regretting not keeping one. I said he could always make a list of the blogs, magazines, etc. that he’s wanked on.
Atomicgrizzly: It’s not a fallacy in Hugo’s case.
Pro-ana communities are far more dangerous to their own members. Incel communities are certainly not helping their members, but overall they’re probably more dangerous to the women unfortunate enough to encounter the men involved in those communities than to the men themselves.
“ooh Shiny!”
Lol, I would not have pegged you for the ooh Shiny! type! Too bad I only have one HD disc or I’d give you one, they’re very shiny (the dishes themselves, the parts you can’t see until the HD is dead and you decide to take it apart)
I should send you a pic of my violin though, it’s an ooh Shiny! electric :)
I like how NO ONE understands intersectionality. Like dude, you can have dude privilege but not white privilege. It happens.
I wanna see your violin.
“He also sent me a long e-mail trying to elaborate his thesis.”
1) fuck him. 2) I’m sending you that violin pic then, it’s certainly less annoying than that!
@CassandraSays
It is the typical religious conversion narrative. I think it is always bullshit since the format encourages lying or exaggerating to make the conversion seem more real or something. I the exaggeration typical of the form is part of the hand-waving about Schwyzer. People assume he is exaggerating when everything about his story actually screams minimizing.
I don’t understand how being a horrible person is supposed to prove you are better than people who have been good all along, but that seems to be the way the story traditionally works.
Cassandra and some gal re: Hugo, that about sums up my thoughts on the asshole. With side dishes of “and then you tried to hide it like we’d forget”
I might feel different about it if he seemed to have learned anything from his past, but the way he presented the story about his ex made it very clear that he hasn’t.
“And what does bulky mean if not fat? Is he saying he could have been born with lots of muscles?”
I guess stocky and/or heavyset, which is what I am (buying clothes sucks!)
“Atomicgrizzly: It’s not a fallacy in Hugo’s case.”
Actually it is. If someone gives good advice, but they don’t follow it, it makes them a hypocrite, but it doesn’t make the actual advice worse.
I still don’t like hugo, but a fallacy is a fallacy.
Ok, caught up, I hope. Agree with Cassandra on ALL THE THINGS re: Hugo.
“Pro-ana communities are far more dangerous to their own members. Incel communities are certainly not helping their members, but overall they’re probably more dangerous to the women unfortunate enough to encounter the men involved in those communities than to the men themselves.”
Good point, I was thinking that the incel men might just read along and have a pity party but not turn into assholes. Or even, gasp, take some dating tips! But no, you’re right, they probably do affect a larger number of people since the pro-ana communities are only dangerous to their members.
And ok I’ll get the violin on tinypic or something!
Does anyone know if there are stats on the average length of time people are involved with pro-ana communities? I’ve heard stories that involvement with them has actually led some people to realize they have a problem and knowing the averages would help me figure out exactly how I feel about them.
(I developed an eating disorder, most likely encouraged by my taking Wellbutrin, and so I understand wanting a community to help you feel less alone and that will always lead to sharing stories and tips. I feel like having a community is important enough to overlook a lot of the self-harm aspects as community prevents even more permanent/irreversible self-harm like suicide, but it would be helpful to know how damaging the communities are.)
Of course, a community around something like incel that hurts others is not okay.
“It makes me really really upset when men see something they don’t like about society and then assume Feminists are running the world so it’s their fault something is the way it is, even if Feminists are actively working towards changing whatever it is they don’t like.”
Yeah, it’s pretty ironic. I think a lot of these guys have skewed views on what feminism is. They think that feminists are working with some kind of zero sum game where they take power from men for themselves. They don’t know that we’re working for everyone.
It’s like when people talk about Socialism like it’ll automatically make America into Soviet Russia. They don’t know that the US government uses socialist policies all the time (Social Security/mediacre/medicaid)
I feel like any community that includes the concept of thinspiration is inherently harmful.
“I still don’t like hugo, but a fallacy is a fallacy.”
True, but there’s got to be a point where the advice is obvious enough that the asshole it’s coming from makes the whole thing moot. Eg he who learned nothing about attempting murder doesn’t really get to give advice on being a dencent human being unless it’s so damn revolutionary it couldn’t possibly come from somewhere else.
And the violin pic seems to be on the other computer, let me get breakfast and coffee and I’ll break out the Mac (need it to code Pierre’s CSS too :) )
Incels? pro-ana? Thinspiration?
Can someone get me caught up on what these are, because they sound pretty scary.
Do yourself a favor and don’t google thinspiration.
“True, but there’s got to be a point where the advice is obvious enough that the asshole it’s coming from makes the whole thing moot.”
Definitively, I agree. Just because something is a fallacy doesn’t mean it’s irrelevant.
If John Boehner came out today and said that everyone needs to join together and make things better for the American people, that’s great advice, but I’d still tell him to STFU.
“don’t google thinspiration.”
noted. It’s in my mental ungooglable list, along with Sonic the hedgehog and every anime ever.
@CassandraSays
I don’t know if the harm outweighs the benefits, though. When I was at my worst, I was cutting myself every day, starving myself or hinging and purging, and contemplating suicide all the time. Seeing that other people were dealing with the same things and were able to hide how fucked up things were for them, gave me hope enough to not kill myself and, as screwed up as it is, the disordered eating gave me something to live for. I wouldn’t deny that to anyone. (I got more comfort from reading about other cutters than the pro-ana communities, but I could easily see that going the other way.)
I’ve never seen statistics, but am inclined to agree with Cassandra here. Years upon years ago I was a mod over here — http://buslist.org/phpBB/ — and they have very strict rules about both trigger warning and anything that might be encouraging dangerous behavior. That’s where I learned about trigger warnings actually. Pro-ana communities seem like they’re getting the community part completely wrong, it isn’t sympathy that you’re in pain, but encouraging you to take harmful measures to “deal with” that (scare quotes because there isn’t any actual dealing with it going on). Versus “what could you do instead?” type advice.
(Idk how good the community is at BUS anymore, but the games sub-board has always been a decent source of distraction…and I’d be remiss not to mention that I was a founding mod of random weirdness and they’re…well…about as on topic as here :) )
Well, I guess you could google it, just not as an image search unless you enjoy upsetting yourself.
If pro-ana communities had been around when I was a teenager I doubt that I’d ever have been able to develop a more reasonable attitude towards food. Your mileage may vary, obviously, but I think they’re pure poison.
@Argenti
I found the communities where you had to monitor what you said stigmatizing at the time. (I still do, to a certain degree, depending on the commuthis and what specifically is off-limits.)
I was in college (well, had just dropped out/been kicked out of college) so I might not be looking out for younger girls as much as I should be with regards to this.
‘Incel’ = ‘involuntarily celibate’. Put bluntly, people who can’t get laid but really really badly want to. Most ‘incels’ that I’ve encountered seem to have a decidedly paranoid view of the world in general and the opposite sex in particular, which may partly or indeed completely explain their lack of success.
This show probably counts as anti-thinspiration:
Hugo Shit is a flaming hypocrite who condemns other straight men for preferring teens and twenty-somethings like it was a crime against humanity while celebrating cougars despite not bothering to actually practice what he preaches. He is the very definition of mangina as he is a rabid gender-traitor who sucks up to women at the expense of other straight men just to get laid.
“‘Incel’ = ‘involuntarily celibate’. Put bluntly, people who can’t get laid but really really badly want to.”
Why don’t male incels and femal incels get together and sex each other up?
Male incels would be very upset with you for suggesting that there might be female incels. That’s misandry, that is.
Short version because Do Not Google. Pro-ana is short for pro-anorexia, they range from “your eating disorder is acceptable” to “I want an eating disorder it’d make me thin!” Pretty sure Cassandra’s also referring to the latter sort, I don’t really see the former as pro-ana since they aren’t bout developing an eating disorder.
Thinspiration = pics of scarily thin people, mostly women/girls, probably ‘shopped or anorexic, used to discourage / guilt trip one about eating, because you want to look like that don’t you!
“When I was at my worst, I was cutting myself every day, starving myself or hinging and purging, and contemplating suicide all the time.”
Ick, I’m sorry, that sounds rather familiar and was no fun at all. That’s also why I just shamelessly plugged the bodies under siege board. Made some good friends there, hell, got a book of traditional Irish fiddle music from one for Yule (and goddamned are jigs easier to play than EA!)
@atomicgrizzly
Female incels don’t exist, apparently. Women can just walk up to men and get sex. (And the women who can’t don’t count. Who wants to have sex with the ugly chick? /sarcasm)
“That’s misandry, that is.”
Yeesh! My bad XD!
Even though I was partially joking, I think it’s worth noting that my first (and current) serious relationship was with a woman who was in the same situation as me (no real serious relationships before).
So basically if these incel guys think they’re alone, they probably aren’t.
I don’t know how you get rid of all the pro-ana (decentish and worse) without reinforcing that it is something to hide and be ashamed of, which is not a message that I think should be sent. Especially if the average length of time people spend with these communities is short (which all the anecdotes I’ve heard support, but that’s not data).
“I want an eating disorder it’d make me thin!”
I’ve actually heard people say this before, and it’s always unnerving.
I don’t think I’ll ever say it myself. Food is awesome! Who care if I have a belly? It’s mine, not yours! >:p
Yeah, the issue is getting across “this is bad for you” without it turning into “so the fact that you do it makes you a bad person.”