“Nice Guys” on parade
So, “Nice Guys” are causing a stir on the Internet again, thanks largely to a new(ish) Tumblr blog called “Nice Guys” of Ok Cupid, which posts selected highlights from the OKCupid profiles of self-proclaimed “nice guys” who make it very clear, in their profiles and in their answers to OKCupid’s “match” questions, that they are in fact anything but nice.
Some of them are actual or potential date rapists, convinced that women that they’re “nice” to owe them sex. Others are bitter from too many rejections, and launch long tirades in their profiles about how women are bitches and whores. Still others are clueless on a more fundamental level, declaring that women have “an obligation to shave their legs” and otherwise prettify themselves for men while noting that they themselves only shower or brush their teeth occasionally.
It’s not clear how any of this is supposed to convince the women of OKCupid that these angry, ranting, hapless-yet-entitled “nice guys” are indeed as “nice” as advertised, much less convince any rational human being to have sex with them.
The site is a goldmine of unintentional self-revelation — as is a similar site with the name of, er, OKCupid Goldmine — and I’ve spent hours looking through the pictures on both sites and discussing them with friends. The only reason I haven’t linked to it in the past is that neither of them blur out the faces of the people they feature, which seems to me a pretty major invasion of privacy. (As you no doubt have noticed, I’ve taken the liberty of somewhat creeepily disguising the faces of the guys in the pics I’m posting here.) But “Nice Guys of OKCupid has been pretty widely discussed, linked to by Jezebel (1, 2) and The Guardian and even the Men’s Rights subreddit, to mention merely a few examples; Ok Cupid Goldmine is also provoking discussions. Posts on both sites regularly get dozens if not hundreds of comments and reblogs on Tumblr. The cat’s already out of the bag.
Here are a couple more of these “Nice Guys” with their faces all spiral-ized:
Posted on January 4, 2013, in creep-shaming, creepy, douchebaggery, entitled babies, hypocrisy, incoherent rage, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, nice guys, rape, rapey and tagged misogyny, nice guys, okcupid, rape, rape apology. Bookmark the permalink. 1,346 Comments.
I was going to make a comment on nice guys vs. jerks, but then I saw ako had pretty much said it already (dammit). Some people think of loud, confident and succesful people with jerkishness, when that’s not always fair. One mistake I used to make was to assume the quieter, less obviously ‘sexual’ people were nicer (mostly because I resented confident people). Not a mistake I will make again.
Oh man. One of the reasons I’m so glad not to be dating right now is because negging would totally work on me. It certainly has in the past. I mean, I hope that it’d be different now that I know what they’re doing, but I’m not so sure.
Yay, new Pierre!
drst: I remember Sniglets. I’ll meet you at the Werther’s Original candy dish.
talacaris: you’d have to be a lot more interesting than you are now to be in a Pierre strip.
The first guy does have a point: there seems to be an absurdly high concentration of bi women on OKC.
“Do you believe in dinosaurs?” “No.”
I was also unaware that dinosaurs are part of some religion on okcupid. Wow. :p
Well, anti-evolutionaries often don’t believe in dinosaurs.
But there are fossils! With respect to the MLP fans, this isn’t like asking about unicorns or something!
…narwhals?
http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2010/07/26/bisexuality-and-dating-on-okcupid/
http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/the-biggest-lies-in-online-dating/
“REALITY: 80% of self-identified bisexuals are only interested in one gender.”
WOMEN:
“12% of women under 35 on OkCupid (and the internet in general, I’d wager) self-identify as bi. However, as you can see above, only about 1 in 4 of those women is actually into both guys and girls at the same time.”
MEN:
“throughout the teens and twenties, the male bisexual population is mostly observably gay men. “
The OKC blog seems to have a pretty shallow understanding of what it means to be bi. But nice to be reminded, once again, that we must always endeavor to prove ourselves to others or be assumed to be lying 9_9\
FWIW I identified as straight on OKC when I used it, because I wasn’t ready for a relationship with a woman. So maybe I made up for one of the lying liars going the other way.
I think the Nice Guy thing about ‘treating you like a Princess’ is a smokescreen for ‘but I expect to be treated like a King’.
And by “King” he means “Henry VIII” and by “Princess” he means “Mary Tudor.” In other words, “I expect to be treated as if I am your unquestioned lord and master who is beholden only to my personal version of God, and I in return will treat you exactly as shittily as I personally think you deserve at any given moment, which may or may not (but often is) dependent on how some other woman is making my boner feel.”
Hah, I used a couple of dating sites in my 20’s (OKC, and a local one in Vermont), and frequently got messages from dudes whose profiles said they had daughters my age. The Vermont one even had me listed as taken and looking for friends, but that didn’t stop them (which, come to think of it, also happened on MySpace…). I think some guys will just message anyone listed as female.
Can’t sleep … jerks will eat me … can’t sleep … jerks will eat me ….
But why the fuck should I care what a potential mate had to say to that particular question? Nobody says, “I’m looking for a girl who shares my views on leg shaving.”
I actually found the leg-shaving question to be one of the most useful potential date filters on OKCupid. Because I figure any guy who thinks I have an “obligation” to shave my legs is one who does not think I own my own legs and therefore call all the shots regarding their presentation and use. (I answered it “no” and wrote in the comment box, “‘Obligated’ to whom? They’re MY legs!”)
I do happen to shave my legs, even though I have very fine hair that’s almost impossible to see, because I like the way it feels. But any guy who answered that with a “yes” was immediately off my list, because I found it such a basic bodily autonomy question. I mean, if a guy thinks I’m “obligated” to do something as benign as shave, he probably also thinks I’m “obligated” to provide my boobs/vagina/etc. on his terms as well. And as I was coming off a long-term relationship in which my ex thought I was in fact obligated to do just that, that was an INSTANT NO for me.
Incidentally, I met on OkCupid the guy I eventually married. He still does not think I am obligated to shave my legs. ;)
@drst
I have the board game. (Back to reading the rest of the thread.)
Oh yeah, don’t they say that evil scientists faked the fossils?
Some creationists believe in dinosaurs. They believe the dinosaurs lived in the Garden of Eden, but it was only 6000 years ago rather than millions. Sadly, like the unicorns, they did not survive the Flood :-(
He’s Jewish and has a rebbe, so it’s probable he wears peyot, and shows tzitzit
He likes math (see, “I invented the concept of ‘x’, and my rebbe solved Fermat’s Last Theorom in his head in 30 seconds).
drst: OK that I seem to be the only one old enough to remember Rich Hall’s “sniglets” aka “words that should be in the dictionary but aren’t.”
I remembered them. I thought most of them were better at, “let’s be cute”, than, “I think that works,”.
“Do you think women have an obligation to keep their legs shaved?” This question irks me. I’m sure many guys who answer in the affirmative are simply assuming it is asking about personal preference, since this is a dating site, after all. But the phrasing couches it in terms of ‘obligation’ to which I say, nay, it’s a free country. So I suppose I’d answer ‘No’, although that may imply that I would actually date someone who didn’t shave, as I fail to see how the question is relevant in any other respect.
So… you don’t think it’s relevant, and you don’t like the use of, “obligation” but if a woman is to considered a viable candidate; for you, and she doesn’t shave her legs you won’t date her.
So the honest answer from you, in the context of, “if she wants to date me does a woman have an obligation to shave her legs?” is Yes.
Which is why it’s a useful question.
“Some creationists believe in dinosaurs. They believe the dinosaurs lived in the Garden of Eden, but it was only 6000 years ago rather than millions. Sadly, like the unicorns, they did not survive the Flood ”
That explains so much…poor unicorns! :(
I haven’t heard any creationists deny dinosaurs existed, although I’m sure that some do… I’ve only heard the “they actually lived at the same time as humans” version. And that Behemoth in the Bible was a dinosaur, and all legends and fairy-tales of dragons were inspired by dinosaurs that people actually met long ago.
The Creation Museum in Kentucky spends a lot of time baiting their hook with dinosaurs. They have dinosaur sculptures outside, they have animatronic dinosaurs inside with their mannequins of Adam &
StEve, they explain how the Tyrannosaur will lie down with the Gallimimus, and they patiently explain how this was all possible because there was no death in the world.And seriously, while you’re oohing and ahhing at the rather cheesy dinos, they try to slip past things like “Cain married his sister, because God decides what’s moral and immoral, and God hadn’t decided that impregnating your close relatives was a Bad Thing yet,” together with “We had a nice thing going, and then Some Woman Done Fucked It Up, and now we have inner-city gun violence.”
I believe they stopped the animatronic robots who were laughing at Moses and sounded like a bad Mel Brooks routine, but I think the gimlet-eyed Methuselah creepadroid is still going.
Ken Ham recently decried feathered dinosaurs as the Lies of Satan, probably so he wouldn’t have to spend money he doesn’t have on new dino models. And it isn’t even every dino species that’s feathered!
Sorry for the rant. Ken Ham and his Creation Museum are in my home state, it’s a sore spot for me.
oops, I Will go fix Pierre’ s moustache immediately!
I’ve heard that God left the dinosaur bones around, looking all old, to test the faith of believer’s. So…I guess that means dinosaurs didn’t really exist, just their bones exist.
I never put the bones were planted theory together with not-existing before, but it makes sense. Well, it doesn’t make sense, but it is illogically consistent.
That’s okay, Falconer. John the Otter appears to share both a city and a first name with me… :(
Believers. I blame my autocorrect. That is one of those typos that makes my brain hurt.
“Faith of believer’s” — not just wrong, but repetitive!
Somehow dinosaurs having feathers just makes them more awesome.
Hence the brain-hurting. (I can handle lots of typos, but unnecessary apostrophes set my teeth on edge.)
I rather like the idea of Pierre’s mustache resigning in protest of MRAs. Yay Pierre!
*mental image*
On MReddit:
spiffytash: So anyway, your belief about penguins in crude and inaccurate, and you should engage with varied penguins in order to gain a true picture of what penguins are like before dismissing them based on really… bizarre… stereotypes.
RandomMRA: ARGLEBARGLE MANGINA!
spiffytash: I’m not a mangina, I’m a moustache.
Dani: I think he doesn’t mean Mary Tudor, as the only person I associate that with is Elizabeth I’s older sister, and she would truck with no dissent.
I’ve seen this tumblr and I think it’s always a service to humanity to publicly out anyone who has stated they believe rape is acceptable in any circumstance. I’ll admit though I’m confused about the whole “Nice Guys wear fedoras” thing. None of the Nice Guys I’ve dealt with had them, it’s something I remember more from people into ska, the one my husband and I share, and the one Abuelito kept for formal occasions, though he preferred those old-timey wool caps
RE: Argenti
One of my favorite one-off moments in Fantasia 2000 was during ‘Pomp and Circumstance,’ which they had rigged as Noah’s Ark. As the rain came down and the ark geared up to go, you had a brief glimpse of a unicorn, a dragon, and possibly something else pointing and laughing. You never saw them again.
RE: leg-shaving
God, I HATE that meme. Also the meme of body as communal resource. When I had top surgery, there was some backlash about how our tits were just SO AWESOME (yeah, dude, you try finding a cost-effective 30D bra) that it was somehow a public disservice to hack them off. Like we were desecrating a public space or something, instead of tailoring OUR personal body for OUR use. What the hell?
RE: bi women on OKCupid
Oh god that article makes me head hurt. That’s NOT HOW FUCKING BISEXUALITY WORKS. Christ on a crutch.
http://catsthatlooklikepinupgirls.tumblr.com/
NSFW but not hardcore or anything… Think this is my favorite: http://catsthatlooklikepinupgirls.tumblr.com/post/35965717068
re hats. I like them. I don’t like trilbys (the small fedoras which are so popular now). I like a good fedora (which includes my semi-stetson). I have a bowler, a stetson, an opera hat (satin topper, with a spring frame) berets, a newsie, some watch caps (and crochet head warmers), a winter-Tilley, felt “snap brim” leather flat cap (ca. 1580 for style), patrol caps, the hat my dress-blues require (not suitable for any other purpose) a campaign hat (think Smokey the Bear).
I think that’s all of them, but I might be wrong.
I feel like if I just sat some Nice Guys down and talked to them they would learn, and then I tell myself “Remember what happened last time you tried to do that?” so I don’t.
HHhhmmmm….Oh, nice guys, how pathetic you are
“…you had a brief glimpse of a unicorn, a dragon, and possibly something else pointing and laughing. You never saw them again.”
They all flew off with pegasus and stayed gone because we’re too stupid for their awesome.
Pecunium, you may have too many hats! Where do you store them? I’ve got enough issues with my teeny tiny tophat, eeyore winter hat and fedora/trilby.
LBT, if we meet up in Boston, I’ll try to wear the teeny tiny tophat, it’s quite noticeable! Eeyore if it’s freezing (just as noticable!)
I am so happy I don’t meet people online. These guys need a hard baseball bat shoved up their stinking asses!
WORD! They’re hanging out with Nessie and Ogopogo, Bigfoot, and all them guys.
I have a trilby. Last time I wore it was when we went to see Breaking Dawn 2 for shits and giggles (plenty were provided), and we all dressed up as Spiffy the Vampire Slayer. :D
@Jenny.
Rape threats = not okay. Seriously not okay.
Sorry–I meant Jennie
RE: Jennie
Male survivor of rape here. Believe it or not, I have never found someone whose behavior was improved by brutal sodomization. Please fuck off now.
RE: Argenti
We’ll grab Sneak’s pink cat ear hat. It’s nice and easy to pick out in a crowd, plus will keep our fuzzy Q-tip head warm.
Oh my god is Jennie still hanging around?
What exactly are you trying to achieve?
If you’re trolling it’s a pretty pathetic attempt.
I’m 85% sure Jennie is Pell.
Who is this Jennie?
LBT — eeyore’s ears are floppy and lined with pink, it’ll be a pink eared lunch!
Now, wtf to tell my mother, I’m thinking just saying we’re getting lunch with a male friend from manboobz, she may get a bit weird bout it, but she’s got the manners to ask me latter. She um, doesn’t do well with non-cis people, thinks it must be so hard on their parents…which means I’m stuck as bio-gender now that I’m living with them again. At least she has manners, so this should go fine. Do you still have my email?
Jennie: I, for one, would NOT want people to be raped. Go away pls.
RE: Argenti
Er, dunno what we pass for these days. We were being read as male for a while, but we seem to be slipping back over to the female side of reading for some reason. Male should be fine if it’s me, but Sneak was getting read female no matter what zie was wearing or hormonal status. (Ah, the fun of multiplicity. Your gender gets read ALL OVER THE PLACE.)
As for it being hard on our parents… yes, it was. But now it’s not, because we cut them off! :D We’re not their problem anymore!
And I think we lost your email, sorry.
“And I think we lost your email, sorry.” — I still have yours, so no problem.
As for cutting off parents…she has some blind spot to the fact people do this.
Assuming I have the right addy, you’ve got mail :)
No, because clearly that’s not what the question means. The context is more like, “Are women, in general, obligated to play the role of eye candy on your behalf, regardless of whether you are dating them?” More importantly, that is the interpretation favoured by the maker of the blog.
Argenti: I have a shelf,and some hat boxes.
I wear them. The bowler gets lots of appreciation. When I got my winter coat I started wearing my topper.
Since I wear a hat, all the time, what I’m wearing will decide what hat looks best.
Grumbles. Nope. Look at the things the women who speak here are saying. Look at your actual opinion on leg hair.
Look at the context of the question: Yes, there are some “big” philosophical questions but the point of the questionaire is, “how suitable are this person’s views to mine”.
I know a lot of women who use OK cupid, and the sentiments expressed here, are pretty consistent. Even women who wouldn’t imagine not shaving their legs (of my acquaintance) balk at men who think women need to.
Nice coat! And your storage makes sense, I tend to fill any open space with a fish tank XD
Dani: I think he doesn’t mean Mary Tudor, as the only person I associate that with is Elizabeth I’s older sister, and she would truck with no dissent.
That’s precisely the Mary I mean. And, given that during her childhood Henry VIII prohibited her from seeing or communicating with her mother, forced her to live in a very wet and drafty castle on the Welsh Marches, conscripted her into serving her bastard infant half-sister while accepting the moniker “Lady Mary” rather than “Princess Mary,” and then forced her to sign an oath proclaiming that her parents’ marriage was never valid and that she was in fact a bastard with no claim to the throne whatsoever (after ten or so years of raising her to believe she had the only rightful claim to it) – and that Henry did all this only because Anne Boleyn gave him PENISFEELINGS – I think the comparison is wholly apt.
Remember, Queen Mary never got to burn her father at the stake, no matter how much she might have liked to. ;)
Wrong, pecunium. You said the appropriate answer I should give to the question is ‘Yes.’ Obviously it isn’t. The correct response on my part is to simply skip the question, which I have done.
Yeah, but even at that, she was a prince; using the language of the times, when she came into her own.
There was more to what Henry did than his lust. For reasons of politics he needed a son, and Catherine wasn’t likely to give him another child. The lack of a son (more than any infidelity, real or imagined) is why Ann went to the block.
And Mary’s claim was only valid, at the time, so long as there was no male heir. Had Catherine produced a son, Mary wasn’t the heir.
When Henry finally did have a male heir it mellowed things (though for all the storm of their relationship [sort of like Henry II and Richard I] they were still close, and Henry sent his physicians when Mary was really ill in 1542). Given Edward’s age Henry put Mary back in the succession.
I see why you chose them, but the relationship isn’t really, Prince and Princess, but Father/Daughter; and father daughter in a very unbalanced situation.
In case anyone is devastated with curiosity, the third critter in the Fantasia 2000 Noah’s Ark Skeptics’ Club is a griffin:
>re hats. I like them.
Same here. I know that they kinda look silly, but I simply found that a hat and a good coat protects me from the elements better than an umbrella. And that’s a fairly important consideration if you’re living in a place that’s cold and wet for eight months or more.
Makes reading Fedoras of OKC is kinda painful for me though.
Grumbles: Wrong, pecunium. You said the appropriate answer I should give to the question is ‘Yes.’ Obviously it isn’t. The correct response on my part is to simply skip the question, which I have done.
That’s the cop out. Your personal opinion is women can do what they like, but if they don’t shave their legs, you won’t date them.
You think the women who date you are obliged to shave their legs.
By saying, “yes” you honestly express your position. By not answering the question you pretend you don’t have an oppressors view of your partner.
Hats! There’s been a hat conversation while I slept! ::sobs::
I had a gorgeous one, sort of like a shortish top hat, and a wide-brimmed black straw one with black lace veiling during my Goth days. These days it’s more caps – I really like the butcher-boy or baker-boy style and have a few of those. I’ve also got lots of berets. Since I took up knitting and happened upon a pattern for a slouch cap that adapts really well (pure luck, that) to a beret pattern you can do on straight needles, I’ve made a couple of those and will do more once the weather is more knitting-friendly.
I really like fedoras, especially since Mr K took to wearing them. Half my time watching Foyle’s War was spent drooling over Foyle’s and Milner’s hats and Foyle’s gorgeous overcoat.
Summer hats are a bit of a pain, though. I find it’s generally more useful to just carry an umbrella as a sunshade when it gets seriously hot; hats are limited to middling-sunny days. A few years back (marriage day!) I bought a wide-brimmed red straw hat. Once we were out of the shop I asked Mr K what he thought of it. He gave me a sidelong look and said, “It’s very red.”
I made him pay for that, though. Next time I went to the shop where I bought it I told the staff what he said and we had a good laugh about it.
Forgot to add – CWS wins an internet for the spiffytash script!
Can this not turn into another “Let’s All Explain To Sgt Grumbles That We Don’t Care About What Makes His Penis Do A Happy”-A-Thon?
I don’t shave my legs because it bores the fuck out of me. If someone doesn’t want to date me because of it, then I know that I don’t want them anywhere near my (fuzzy) crotch. It’s up to no one but the bearer of the legs in question.
Oh and inb4 “BUT MEN SHAVE THEIR FACES”, if I liked a bloke and he grew a beard, it’s none of my business, it’s his damn face.
nat, good point, about feeding the unterbrücken, even if what I’m saying is he’s a lying sack of shit.
I guess now would be a good time to totally confess that it took this website and a few others to point out to my thickheaded, misogynist (sp?) brain what is actually wrong with what they are saying. And I still don’t fully understand what’s wrong. And, um, the weather was better today! Sunny!
Hey Tina, you want some sun, I’ll donate ours if I can figure out how! Going to be 36 C here again tomorrow … shudder.
@kittehs
Woah! I’m a far bit further north then you and we’re only at 27C now.