No Godwin’s Law here. This Men’s Rights Activist really IS a Nazi.
Great. Another Hitler baby.
Well, now you’ve gone and done it, you evil feminists: you’ve turned 0bvious_Atheist into a Nazi!
We first met the Men’s Rights subreddit regular the other day, when in a fit of ingenuity he blamed the Newtown school shootings on, er, Title IX. Well, his strange political journey has continued, and on his blog, on Boxing Day, the Canadian MRA officially announced his conversion to neo-Nazism. Literally. Let’s let him explain:
I have grown impatient
I have lost my desire for conventional activism. We live in an era where men like Warren Farrell are run off campus by mobs of Femistasi, men like Keenan Midgley get maligned for trying to start Men’s Centres, JohnTheOther gets harassed in the streets and others like him get assaulted, Mr. Heimbach a white students advocate in the United States, is constantly maligned by the media and the intellectual establishment, and Jared Taylor, a meek and mild Yale graduate, is harassed at every turn by the establishment.
Huh. I have to admit I’m not completely up-to-date on all the examples of anti-white, anti-male oppression he lists here, but I would like to point out that Warren Farrell did not, in fact, get run off the University of Toronto campus. A number of students protested his visit, some of them quite rudely, but the police interceded on his behalf, clearing away protesters so he could go ahead and make his speech.
I also looked up that vague reference to “Mr. Heinbach,” and discovered that Matthew Heimbach is a student at Maryland’s Towson University who wants to start a White Student Union there. As part of his campaign for tolerance on behalf of America’s beleaguered white majority, he recently posed in front of Martin Luther King Jr.’s church in Montgomery holding a Confederate flag.
Gosh, how terribly unfair it is that some people might have criticized him for this.
Mr. Atheist continues:
I’m a young man. I don’t have the patience to go around asking for permission to exercise my inalienable, natural right to freedom of association. As Harold Covington said, Whites feel they need a permission slip from quote “the Jews” unquote to advocate for them. I feel the same thing can be said of Men’s Rights Activism. We feel that we need permission from Feminists, the intellectual establishment, and the state to self-advocate. Our entire movement has become a quest for permission from the left to self-advocate.
I’m pretty sure that not even a single molecule of that is even remotely true. What color is the sky in Imaginary Backwards Land?
We want a Men’s Ministry in the government. We want Men’s organizations on campus. We want White student unions. All of those things are politically toxic to the establishment and out of reach, and furthermore, if you look at what the “Men’s Ministries” in the Northern European welfare states have done you will remain unimpressed, and perhaps even alarmed, at how little they have mitigated the total alienation of young men from the respective societies of those countries.
Of course, the young men who are most alienated from society in the Northern (and Southern) European welfare states today are the immigrants who are so despised by Mr. Atheist and his fellow White “Nationalist” racist assholes. And these young male immigrants aren’t feeling alienated because of a lack of White Student Unions or the unimpressive actions of Men’s Ministries; they’re feeling alienated because of racism and a lack of jobs.
With this in mind we must recognize that productive organizations simply are not going to become a reality. If you doubt me, you can go look at what they did to Dr Warren Farrell when he tried to speak at the University of Toronto. I have absolutely no desire to be screamed at, spit on, expelled, fired, ostracized, and made into a pariah for simply asking to exercise my right to freedom of association.
So the fact that a couple of dozen students protested against a speaker on a college campus, delaying his talk for half an hour or so, means that normal political activity on behalf of your ass-backwards faux “civil rights movement” is impossible? Mr. Atheist, do you have any fucking idea what real civil rights advocates went through in order to get the same basic rights as everyone else, like the right to fucking vote? Do you think that feminists weren’t ever “screamed at, spit on, expelled, fired, ostracized, and made into … pariah(s)?”
What sort of strange entitled bubble do you live in that you think political activism should be painless? Or that your political opponents should simply roll over once you express your opinions?
Congratulations intellectual establishment. After around 14 years of politically correct education at politically correct institutions run by politically correct professors you have alienated me, first as a White, and secondly as a male. I have got absolutely no patience for your goddamn processes, your forms, your organizational quotas and quorums required to get approval from the UVSS. I’m fed up, and I’m going elsewhere else to self-advocate.
If you’re really serious about going “elsewhere else,” might I suggest another planet?
As market Anarchists and Libertarians constantly must remind you crypto-Marxists, if you ban something the buyer will go elsewhere in the market to get it. That’s exactly what I plan to do. Rather than grovelling at the feet of professors, academics, pseudo-intellectual social justice warriors, and Femistasi, I’m just going to go join the Western Front, a quasi-Neo-Nazi, semi-illegal White Nationalist political organization that accepts me for what I am and understands my problems. You have driven a relatively well off, intelligent, middle class, White male, who used to vote NDP, into the arms of the very people you taught me to despise for the totality of my formative years.
Great. I guess the one upside of all this is that Mr. Atheist won’t be calling feminists “feminazis” from now on. Not that “femistasi” is much of an improvement.
Oh, and in case anyone needs visual evidence of how much of a racist fuck 0bvious_Atheist really is — not that there’s much doubt — here’s a link to a cartoon he stuck onto the end of one of his recent YouTube videos. But first, a TRIGGER WARNING for really really racist rape imagery. Link.
(Note: There doesn’t seem to be any information online about a neo-Nazi group called Western Front, at least not in Canada. There was evidently one by that name in Los Angeles at one point. Does this group, like the anti-white-male oppression he talks about, exist only in 0bvious_Atheist’s head? EDITED TO ADD: There is a group called Northwest Front; presumably that’s what he meant.)
Posted on December 30, 2012, in antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, entitled babies, grandiosity, imaginary backwards land, irony alert, literal nazis, lying liars, men who should not ever be with women ever, MRA, narcissism, not-quite-explicit threats, oppressed white men, paranoia, playing the victim, racism, reactionary bullshit, warren farrell and tagged antifeminism, men's rights, MRA, neo-nazis, warren farrell. Bookmark the permalink. 474 Comments.
I love how he makes this declaration as if anyone beyond himself gives a shit.
I don’t know who Obvious_Atheist is, but given this crap, it seems to me like we’d be better off without him, anyways.
Good riddance.
What a coincidence! I’m just finishing up “Manhood in America; a cultural history” by Michael Kimmel….white, angry men…terrific…
“Femistasi”
I want that stenciled on a tank top.
Let me guess, Obvious Fuckwit is also one of that breed of internet douchebags who think being atheist proves they’re smarter than anyone who isn’t, all the while demonstrating their own stupidity.
What. A. Loser.
Holy shit, don’t click on the link to the cartoon, just take David’s word for it that it’s horrible.
Also, I wonder which Obvious Feminist Overlord English Teacher taught Mr. Atheist to capitalize “white” when using it as a descriptor. It isn’t derived from a proper noun, and it shouldn’t be capitalized unless at the beginning of a sentence or quotation.
::gasp::
You mean he went to school with Steele?
Somehow I think he wanted to be a neo-Nazi all along, but didn’t have the stones. This is his excuse. I love how it’s always someone else’s fault with MRAs. They always frame themselves as such passive actors.
Of course it’s toxic. It’s fucking racist, sexist garbage. Duh.
… Jesus pants.
*needs brain bleach*
Seconding.
My all time favorite MRA meme:
We tried being reasonable!
Uh… when, exactly?
I don’t believe he’s flounced off in a huff into the neo-Nazis so much as found where his leanings have been all along. His neo-Nazism was up his sleeve/in his pocket/under the false bottom in the hat all along. He’ll never make a good magician, he was no good at misdirection.
Brain bleach: this is how to overthrow feminism (warning: involves kittehs) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAfpq6EPKck
“We thought about organizing politically, but it turns out that this takes work, and also, pretty much everyone hates us. So we’ll just, uh, overthrow the government instead?”
Don’t tell me, let me guess. He is one of the “nice guys” from OKcupid, right?
I’m always rather relieved when they openly admit their racism, since it usually lurks just below the surface in talk about “thugs” and such. I will not click on that cartoon, since I can all too easily imagine…
Another thing not to click on is the recent AVfM post about India — the comments especially. Again, you can probably all too easily imagine what they’re saying. (For that matter, the comments on recent FtB posts about India have their fair share of fail too, but at least the bloggers and commenters treat the asshats as they deserve.)
White supremacists like to capitalize “white,” I guess ’cause it makes just them just that more special.
And here we have yet another “I’m leaving, for reals this time!” manifesto from yet another MRA. Yes, you’re so fucking oppressed. If you promise to really leave, we promise to miss you, okay? Now fuck off, that’s a good boy.
Holy…
That “cartoon” is really one of the most horrible things I’ve ever seen illustrated. And just why does Obvious Atheist believe that it’s perfectly fine to be not only sexist, but also racist and antisemitic?
I’m always so confused as to where the heck people learn that it’s acceptable to go around hating others like that…?
First an MRA and now a Neo-Nazi, eh? So I guess he’ll be spending the rest of his sorry existence wanking off intellectually on stormfront. Yup, he’s a real winner, that guy.
So raise your hand is you’re surprised that an MRA feels aligned with Nazis.
*crickets*
Also, why do so many MRAs believe that civil rights for those of us who are NOT white and/or male were so easily won? Did they just not pay attention in any history class from 7th grade forward?
Or do they truly feel that the documentations of women and racial minorities are works of fiction created solely to make them feel bad?
I think they are convinced that people are abusing the White Man civil rights by exercising their not White Man civil rights.
Thirding.
“Or do they truly feel that the documentations of women and racial minorities are works of fiction created solely to make them feel bad?”
In NWOs case, yes.
[cheese]
Boy, this guy really puts the ZERO in Zerobvious!
[/cheese]
But yeah, count me as among those not surprised that the privilege blind chucklefuck turns to fucking Nazis when the world doesn’t immediately bow to his demands. Hitler Baby in a nutshell.
These MRAs are giving us atheists a bad name.
White middle class reactionary afraid of losing privilege (i.e. of being declasse and joining the working class) decides to join fascist parties. Surprise! (Not really, that’s like the classic fascist demographic.)
Yeah, that cartoon is messed up on several levels. Disgusting.
Shut up, Melissa.
Ah…yes. Because white males have, historically, been SO oppressed, precipitating a need for such things as white student unions and men’s organizations. Most of these MRA loons drive me up a wall.
Please just leave me alone
Melissa, Daughter of Ruby.
He has “absolutely no desire to be screamed at, spit on, expelled, fired, ostracized, and made into a pariah…”
…so he’s becoming a Nazi.
Okay then.
I don’t undersand that. Who is Ruby?
Understand this, Melissa: if you come onto a feminist site spouting abuse-apologist lines, people aren’t going to forget all about it every new thread. This isn’t a schoolyard you can’t get away from; nobody is forcing you to be here or comment if you read. You’ve blotted your copybook pretty badly.
Ruby Hypatia is a troll here who thinks that prison rape is funny and spouts evo-psych bullshit about women marrying for money. I wasn’t here when she was at her height and she just does drive-by statements of the bleedin’ obvious these days – and gets told to shut up.
“Please just leave me alone”
There is an easy solution here you know, go read a book, or any other corner of the Internet.
To be fair through, I thought the mockery of Ruby only followed her around after her pro-prison-rape statements. Maybe let Melissa say something dumb before mocking her?
“abuse-apologist”? That’s a bit over the top isn’t it?
I never suggested or implied that any kind of abuse is ever justified or acceptable. In fact I stated several times that abusers are responsible for their actions. I think you’re miss understanding my position.
I thought people were being too hard on Ruby at first, and then I saw her views on prison rape and pulled a quick U-turn into the “Shut Up, Ruby” brigade.
Kitteh, afaik, Ruby always did drive by state the obvious comments, until she dropped one about prisoners deserving rape, and then dug in hard defending it, and got roundly mocked.
So while I think continuing to question Melissa’s abuse apologism is fair game (and justified), not everything she says is inherently wrong.
Of course, this isn’t a schoolyard, she could go play somewhere else.
Melissa, go answer the rest of those questions then. You did say you would.
I’m sorry, I am a bit new to this blog. What in the hell is a “Femistasi”?
Fuck! So now I’m being compared to someone who’s in favour of prison rape? That’s a bit messed up. I think you’re being unfair on me.
I admit that I can be a bit trollish sometimes in the sense that I like to get into discussion and debate. But I’m sincere at the same time. I don’t insult people, or mock them. I can be sarcastic sometimes but I try to reign it in.
Melissa, if you want to be left alone, leave.
You do realize we can pull up your previous posts, right? We’re not misunderstanding a thing about your positions, you’ve made them abundantly clear.
Melissa: you seem so surprised when you say assy things and get called on it. You’re under the impression that your bullshit will go unchallenged.
Don;t want to be compared to Ruby and think it’s unfair? Stop acting like her.
POOR MEEK AND MILD JARED TAYLOR!!!
WHY WON’T PEOPLE JUST LEAVE HIM ALONE?
Why on earth would anyone dislike such a nice white supremacist asshole?
Misunderstanding your position, am I, Melissa? Let’s quote you from that thread:
Yeah, totally not saying women should KNOW beforehand that a man’s going to abuse them.
Ditto. Also not putting any responsibility on the abuser to, y’know, not abuse people.
Like abusers start it on the first date, as I said at the time. Like they’re not predators who know very well how to entrap someone.
Ah yes, the old abuse is a force of nature, it just happens, y’know, like it’s there all the time and you just have to avoid doing something to start it. No suggestion at all that the abuser makes the choice to do it.
Nope, Melissa just dug in deeper all through that thread, I’m not having these wounded cries.
Songthe: It’s a variation on “Feminazi” coined by one Paula Kirby. You can read about it here:
http://skepchick.org/2012/07/hot-gossip-were-all-burqa-wearing-nazis/
Since its coinage, it has been used as a tongue-in-cheek self-description by feminist atheists and, of course, completely earnestly by shitlords to describe feminists.
You know how you can get people to give you a break Melissa? By learning from the feedback you’re getting, realising that you said some stupid fucking things rather than doubling down on them, educating yourself on why the things you’ve said make you an abuse apologist (or at least sound like one) by reading up on social justice, internalised misogyny and victim blaming rather than just blundering around on blogs like this thinking you know better than everyone, apologising for things you said or at least acknowledge they were fucking stupid, then shutting up until you can contribute something worthwhile to the conversation.
Ok?
“Melissa, go answer the rest of those questions then. You did say you would.”
There were a heck of a lot of responses, and I was getting tired and feeling down from all the negativity being thrown at me.
I’ve been thinking. And I think that there are times when “it was a consequence of your actions”:-
1) Is gonna hurt someone a lot
2) Is drawing attention away from more important issues
3) Is a front for misogyny
I’ve never meant it in that way. When I’ve given my friends advice it was always been intended constructively, and the phrasing and timing has been sensitive. I felt hurt when people accused me of being a horrible friend. That friend I mentioned was even asking for my thoughts. Should I have lied to her?
Also people accused me of having no experience of abuse or abusive relationships. That isn’t true either. I suffered emotional and physical abuse from both parents. Some of it was pretty bad. As an adult I was once in emotionally abusive, fortunately it didn’t last very long. I’ve been sexually assaulted on two occasions, though both were very minor. Also, on two occasions I ended up alone in situations where I believed I was in danger of being raped; fortunately I was wrong both times, but it still left me shaken. Anyway my point is that I wasn’t coming from a place of ignorance or lack of experience.
After one those scary times when I thought I might be raped, I told my then-girl friend what had happened. I also told some other people; some friends and a family member. They told me I should not walk alone at night; and I DID put myself at risk by doing that. It was stupid of me. Do you think that was wrong of them to say that? No. They just care about me and don’t want me to get hurt.
I’m nearly crying now. Please don’t be horrible to me. It isn’t fair.
I read this today and thought of MRA’s. The author actually specifically mentions Nice Guys ™.
http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/
I’m very sorry those things happened to you.
Yes. You have every right to walk alone at night. If you had been raped, I can only imagine where they would take the blaming. It isn’t helpful, even though it looks like it.
At the risk of sounding like a huge bitch, oh no you don’t. Own your shit.
Melissa:
I’m sorry you feel bad.
How do you think a victim of domestic violence is made to feel reading the stuff you spewed out?
You’ll pardon us for being more concerned for their feelings than yours.
Mr Futrelle
Is it possible for you to not go after low hanging fruit like these guys, and say write a factual, coherent critique of Roosh, Roissy and why they are factually objectively wrong, or even The Misandry Bubble, an article that is quite respected in our side of the interwebs. Basically something intelligent and not entirely made up of jokes and ad hominum remarks.
I would also like to thank you, because it is you I discovered the manosphere.Ironic I know! I am now lifting weights, doing much better with women, and have found out many an interesting and useful blogpost in relation to improving ones live.
Yours sincerely
Francis Begbie
Melissa, I am sorry all those things happened to you, and that people tried to make you responsible for them. But don’t you see, you were doing the same thing? Think about whether you’ve internalised those horrible victim-blaming messages.
It was totally wrong of them to say you should not walk alone at night. Do you think they’d have said that to a man who was assaulted or raped? No, they wouldn’t. This is part of misogyny, it puts blame onto women for men’s behaviour. It is never “you shouldn’t walk alone at night”; the message should be DO NOT RAPE.
Kittehs’ Unpaid Help,
None of those quotes say that abuse sufferers deserve what happens to them.
None of those quotes say that abuse is legitimate or acceptable, or that abusers are not responsible. So why do you call that abuse apologetics?
I will admit that I was stupid to say that it is obvious when a person/relationship will be abusive. I’ve been thinking about that, and I’m possibly much more intuitive, and better at reading people than most are. It generally is obvious to me who is messed up and should be avoided, but I was wrong to extrapolate that ability to others. I’m sorry.
I didn’t mean to imply that abuse was a force of nature. The point of the metaphor was to create emotional distance from the sensitive subject and illustrate that someone can put themselves in harms way without doing something that is morally wrong. I wasn’t even thinking about the abuser, they weren’t actually relevant to what I was trying to get across. Admittedly not a well thought out metaphor, I’m sorry for that too.
Does all of that really justify the evil misogynistic abuse apologist accusations that was thrown at me? Seems a little harsh.
Hellkell,
“I’m nearly crying now. Please don’t be horrible to me. It isn’t fair.”
“At the risk of sounding like a huge bitch, oh no you don’t. Own your shit.”
You know it is possible to criticise without all the cruelty that has been thrown at me. I’m asking for protection from criticism. But some awareness that I am a human being with feelings. Also, I think I am “owning [my] shit”.
“It is never “you shouldn’t walk alone at night”; the message should be DO NOT RAPE.”
I don’t think the rapists will listen to that. But the potential victims might listen to “you shouldn’t walk alone at night”.
@eline:
That article made me want to punch something. It specifically states that our only value as human beings and our identities are based entirely on what use we provide to society. I don’t get why people are calling it brilliant. It’s pure utilitarianism on crack.
Do you hear the dipshits sing,
Singing a song of angry men?
It is a song of privileged douches
Hoping to own slaves again!
When no one can oppose them
When women are in the kitchen
The world will be white mens’ once more
When tomorrow comes!
Melissa: no one is protected from criticism, and you are doubling down on your ignorance by saying that the onus on not getting raped is on the victims (don’t walk alone at night). Maybe you can read people, but you sure as hell can’t read this room.
You’d think for all your experiences, you’d have learned some empathy. Shit, maybe just some basic insight for a start.
We are taking your advice Melissa. Recognizing right up front that the person we are talking to is a victim blamer and acting accordingly. You see, you didn’t bother to pretend that you were a decent human being when you first showed up the way that abusive men do. You just went straight for the victim blaming.
@themisanthropicmuse
I didn’t read that as the central message myself. I’m in the part of people who go “fuck yeah let’s sell real estate!” I guess, because I read it as a motivator. It’s not pleasant to hear it and there are always more nuances to everything (and it doesn’t mean you should be a jerk to get by in life; nice doctor beats jerky doctor in patience’s preference), but essentially it is the truth. It just hurts a lot like all truths people don’t want to hear. But a lot of MRAs are just those people who mentally combat against what was said there.
Melissa,
The point is to change rape culture. “Do not rape” includes educating people that supporting rape culture – by making rape jokes, or ignoring or laughing with them, or blaming victims, or talking about women being “slutty” or “should have known better” or “shouldn’t have had a drink” and so on – is in fact supporting rapists. A lot of rapists will avoid using the term to justify what they do; the stranger leaping out of bushes is the minority. Most rapes are committed by someone known to the victim, someone abusing a position of trust. They may deny that what they do is rape, and these are the people (predominantly men) who need to be taught that yes, this is rape, and no, it is not cool, it is a crime.
Your earlier posts were all about the behaviour of the victim of abuse, and that sort of focus is exactly what happens to women in rape trials or anything where they are the victims of male violence, up to and including murder. That’s the problem: it treats abuse as if it’s just something that happens, something that could be avoided, and thus removes the criminal from the spotlight.
Sorry, typo. I meant to say “I’m *NOT* asking for protection from criticism.”
Oh for eff sake, now you have progressed to cage the women to keep them safe.
You are surely an MRA troll from the dupe the feminists school started by maleelam.
That or else you are so thoroughly programed to believe that women are not human that you can argue that they should never ever ever behave as though they are.
Go away concern troll. Go away. You are so transparent you glow.
Less than 100 years ago, it was completely acceptable for people to attend public lynchings as a form of entertainment. Hell, people sold POSTCARDS of them, so people could spread the entertainment far and wide. By the way, what should potential victims of lynchings have done to avoid that fate, other than, you know, not have been born black (or Chinese, or whatever)? And then the NAACP and other groups started organizing campaigns against lynchings, to make lynching MORALLY UNACCEPTABLE FOR DECENT HUMAN BEINGS. You know what would have been an incredibly stupid thing to say to those brave people who said we should teach people not to lynch?
And lookie here — can you find a single mainstream comedian who makes jokes about people being lynched? Imagine that — attitudes towards lynching have changed!!!
PART OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO CHANGE HERE IS CULTURE, SPECIFICALLY RAPE CULTURE, THAT CONTINUALLY TRIES TO TELL WOMEN THAT THEY CAN PREVENT BEING RAPED BY MERELY ALTERING THEIR BEHAVIOR. That is unacceptable.
@Francis Begbie:
This is a comedy blog. Go get your ‘factually objectively wrong’ articles someplace else, like a scientific paper.
Seems that Melissa user is getting a lot of hate for posting something that is logically sound and agreed upon by the vast majority of rational people.
Plus, she seems polite. What’s with all the puerile behaviour?
Francis Begbie – PUAs and MRAs condemn themselves by their own words. If you haven’t the reading comprehension, ethics and empathy to grasp that, it’s your bad luck. This blog isn’t here as a journalistic exercise in “explain why misogyny is wrong to idiots”.
Hmm … harping on Dave and journalism … not a Schticky sock, are we? All these try-hards appearing at voting time, I dunno.
Dear Penthouse,
I never thought it could happen to me, but boy was I wrong…
Meanwhile on the one hand we have MRAs who say women have to fight back/actively resist or it can’t be rape; on the other hand, we have the Indian scientist who said “Had the girl [i.e. the woman gang-raped on a bus in India, who subsequently died of her injuries] simply surrendered (and not resisted) when surrounded by six men, she would not have lost her intestine. Why was she out with her boyfriend at 10 pm?”