National Review writer: Men and “husky” boys could have prevented the Newtown school shootings
Apparently Charlotte Allen thinks all janitors look like this.
It’s always a little distressing to see manosphere-style dumbassery outside the manosphere. Today’s offender: Charlotte Allen at National Review Online, explaining how the deaths in Newtown are the result of the school’s “feminized setting.” Had the school been filled with manly men (and manly boys), Adam Lanza could have been stopped in his tracks!
No, really, that’s what she says. Except that what she wrote is somehow even more egregious than my sarcastic summary. Read for yourself:
There was not a single adult male on the school premises when the shooting occurred. In this school of 450 students, a sizeable number of whom were undoubtedly 11- and 12-year-old boys (it was a K–6 school), all the personnel — the teachers, the principal, the assistant principal, the school psychologist, the “reading specialist” — were female. There didn’t even seem to be a male janitor to heave his bucket at Adam Lanza’s knees.
As everyone knows, janitors with buckets can easily overwhelm adult males firing semiautomatic rifles. That’s why most armies in the world have given up guns, are stocking up on buckets, and have started massive recruiting drives aimed at janitors.
(In fact, there was a male custodian on duty, who (according to one witness) warned students and teachers of the gunman, probably saving lives in the process. It does not appear that any buckets were thrown.)
Oh, Allen gives the women at the school some grudging credit for confronting Lanza and saving lives.
The principal, Dawn Hochsprung, seemed to have performed bravely. According to reports, she activated the school’s public-address system and also lunged at Lanza, before he shot her to death. Some of the teachers managed to save all or some of their charges by rushing them into closets or bathrooms.
But they were ladies, and ladies just aren’t made to be heroes.
[I]n general, a feminized setting is a setting in which helpless passivity is the norm. Male aggression can be a good thing, as in protecting the weak — but it has been forced out of the culture of elementary schools and the education schools that train their personnel. Think of what Sandy Hook might have been like if a couple of male teachers who had played high-school football, or even some of the huskier 12-year-old boys, had converged on Lanza.
I’m pretty sure that if this had happened they would have been gunned down, and there would be a couple of former high school football stars and “some of the huskier 12-year-old boys” added to the list of victims. Not even the “huskiest” 12-year-old is any match for a man with a semiautomatic rifle. [EDITED TO ADD: Also, if there were any 12-year-olds on the scene they would have had to have have flunked several years, as the school only goes up to the fourth grade, as several commenters here have pointed out.]
People, even unarmed people, need to fight back against criminals — because usually, no one else will. It took the police 20 minutes to arrive at Sandy Hook.
According to this timeline, a police SWAT team was there ten minutes after the shooting started.
By the time they got there, it was over. Cops and everybody else encourage civilians not to try to defend themselves when they are criminally assaulted. This is stupid advice. There are things you can do. Run is one of them, because most shooters can’t hit a moving target. The other, if you are in a confined space, is throw things at the killer, or try a tackle.
Many students, with the help of teachers, saved themselves by hiding. Some of the students in one classroom tried to run, and were gunned down. Their classmates who stayed hidden survived.
Remember United Flight 93 on 9/11. It was a “flight of heroes” because a bunch of guys on that plane did what they could with what they had. They probably prevented the destruction of the White House or the Capitol.
The hijackers weren’t carrying semiautomatic rifles. And the heroes literally had nothing to lose by attacking them.
Parents of sick children need to be realistic about them. I know at least two sets of fine and devoted parents who have had the misfortune to raise sons who were troubled for genetic reasons beyond anyone’s control. Either of those boys could have been an Adam Lanza. You simply can’t give a non-working, non-school-enrolled 20-year-old man free range of your home, much less your cache of weapons. You have to set boundaries. You have to say, “You can’t live here anymore — you’re an adult, and it’s time for you to be a man. We’ll give you all the support you need, but we won’t be enablers.” Unfortunately, the idea of being an “adult” and a “man” once one has reached physical maturity seems to have faded out of our coddling culture.
Really? Very few mass killers have lived at home with their mothers, but somehow being “adult” and “men” didn’t stop them from killing. It’s good that Allen, without actually knowing any of the details of Adam Lanza’s apparent “sickness” (because at this point none of us do) is able to tell us what would have been best for him.
Appalling.
Posted on December 19, 2012, in crackpottery, I'm totally being sarcastic, ladies against women, masculinity, misogyny, pig ignorance, victim blaming, violence and tagged antifeminism, charlotte allen, misogyny, national review, newtown, newtown shooting, sandy hook. Bookmark the permalink. 291 Comments.
…Lanza’s parents “enabled” a mass shooting by having their son live with them at the ripe old age of 20?
Yeah, and never mind that had mom kicked him out, that would have been twisted to “that cold, callous bitch of a woman caused this”. Also, I’m pretty sure that kids younger than twenty can be given free range of the house. But go on telling us that “coddling” is the fault that men aren’t stepping up.
Also, comments section of latest poist on spreadhead is outright proclaiming that women, namely mom and teachers are at fault and the shooter is really a victim.
One of many idiots barking up the wrong tree.
The big question people should be asking is what it is in American culture that creates so many sociopaths. I usually don’t take Stephan Molyneux seriously, but he makes a good point that spanking, and other forms of corporeal punishment damage the psyches of children. Creating less sociopaths should be our goal here. Its not banning guns, or violent video games, or crap like that. Its raising people into adulthood who don’t have the desire to harm other people.
As to this specific idiot, he’s is actually trying to reinforce the old way of thinking. Being male doesn’t make me the bodyguard of society. If he were a real MRA, he would realize that.
This seems like a pretty good response (to me, at least) to the people who are trying to connect Lanza’s supposed Asperger’s diagnosis with the shooting.
On the one hand, Lanza’s mother “enabled” him by having him live with her; on the other hand, she is also being blamed because it is rumored she was looking to move him into an assisted living center or some such place. What is certain, though, is that she is to blame somehow. Woman, you know.
So the conservative media is still not acknowledging that if the dude hadn’t been able to get a semi-automatic he wouldn’t have been able to kill so many people in the first place? And instead they’re suggesting that 12 year old boys should offer themselves up as cannon fodder (with no real hope of taking the gunman down, but hey, it sure would be manly)?
If these people really believe that you can overcome automatic weapons by being manly at them that would partially explain their ridiculous opposition to gun control. Unfortunately in reality if you rush at someone who is firing an automatic weapon without protective gear or proper training, you usually end up dead, and the person with the weapon moves on to the next victim.
Diogenes… The writer is a woman, and not an MRA. You have no idea what a “sociopath” is. Stop talking.
God, cloudiah, you’re so bitter. Why can’t you just let Diogenes be stupid in public without pointing out how dumb he’s being?
What the fuck does spanking have to do with anything, Dio? Almost no one spanks their kids anymore – what makes you think Nancy Lanza spanked hers?
More people need to see lowquacks comment on this incident, explaining how janitors can take down an armed attacker:
“Varnish into the shadows” was my favorite.
I work at a school, and OUR janitors take special combat classes. The can take down any number of gunmen with buckets, brooms, and (in extreme cases) wads of wet toilet paper.
Cloudiah, lowquacks, I laughed so hard at that comment.
So Ms Hochsprung gets a begrudging “performed bravely” – if she’d been a man doing the same thing, Allen and all the other misogynists would be praising him to the skies as a true hero. Except, of course, when they were saying that a man giving his life trying to save others, especially women and children, is misandry.
I wonder what Charlotte thinks would be in the bucket. Dynamite? Axe cologne? Semen? Warren Farrell books? What???
“Varnish into the shadows” ROFL!
Beware the ninja janitors.
“If these people really believe that you can overcome automatic weapons by being manly at them that would partially explain their ridiculous opposition to gun control.”
Ironic, isn’t it – if guns can be overcome by someone’s manly man vibes, why the hell does the right wing fetishise them so much? They can’t be very useful weapons if a blast of testosterone is enough to take care of them.
To answer the question in the previous thread? Not much. For any number of reasons (not least, I wasn’t there, and have no access to credible reports as to what actually happened) I’ve been avoiding this subject like the plague.
In part because I’m of the opinion that hard cases make for bad law.
But, absent a way to disarm/disable him, there isn’t much anyone can do. The advice in that column is cracked.
Diogenes, you were doing better in the rape discussion than you are here.
The school goes up to fourth grade, so that would be the husky nine year old boys she thinks should have rushed to shooter.
MAN LAW: Women are responsible for what men do to them.
There are so many things wrong with this “explanation” that I don’t even know where to start. This woman actually manages to be misandric (thinking that men and frickin’ TWELVE YEAR OLD BOYS should “heroically” lay down their lives to tackle a gunman) AND misogynistic (thinking that women are all incapable of handling a crisis that none were prepared for).
How the bleep can you be a misogynist and a misandrist AT THE SAME TIME? Does she just hate people in general? :(
Cassandra
There are no automatics. They’re basically impossible to buy.
The gun is one problem, but the person behind it is another. I see the point that you’re trying to make; guns enable mass killings. What you miss is that this person might have just stabbed someone else to death eventually. Sure it would be less dead people, but its not a more acceptable scenario. At least the person Lanza would have killed would think it so. Were better off taking care of the impulse to harm others.
Cloudia
Either way, my point still stands. By virtue of being a man, I did not sign up to be societys bodyguard.
Diogenes The Cynic, everyone!
So now you’re playing semantics? He had a semi-automatic. That shouldn’t be allowed either, since it’s not needed for hunting.
If you think that mass killings versus individual murders aren’t a problem then we’re back to the problem you were experiencing in the other thread, where your rather poorly evolved sense of moral reasoning is tripping you up, or possibly being tripped up by your egotistical need to try to “win” arguments.
Fuck OFF, Diogenes. Being armed with a knife is just as bad as being armed with a semi-automatic? There’s some chance of overcoming and disarming someone with a knife. Go screw yourself, you horrible little loser.
To expand, “making sure less people have deadly weapons” and “making sure no-one thinks it’s a good idea to kill people” are not in any way mutually exclusive.
If you don’t want to be society’s bodyguard then stop demanding all the perks that go with the position.
I can’t wait to see how hilariously clueless his ideas about how society can produce less people who’re inclined to kill are going to be, though.
Diogenes: I take that back… you were doing MUCH better in the rape discussion.
Less people dead is only a marginal goal. Ideally, you want no one dead. That means society has to have a better gameplan than “ban everything.”
So, create a society where less people will grow up to be capable of killing people.
What lowquacks said. (Both on the “varnish” remark, and on things not being mutually exclusive.)
And no one here is saying men should be expected to risk their lives just because they’re men. That ain’t a feminist argument, Diogenes the Clueless. Go take it up with Charlotte.
I don’t think anyone would argue the gun magically transforms innocent young men into bloodthirsty killers, but not having a gun would certainly limit the efficacy of their murder sprees.
Dio, guns aren’t everything. Better plans may be needed, but moderately effective ones will do in the interim.
WTF did I just read? All the ableism and sexism is *rank.* Honestly, aside from the fact the article is utterly disgusting to the point of making vogon poetry and “agony in pink” look like veritable works or art, the author does not understand the very simple notion that GUNS ARE GENERALLY MORE HARMFUL AND DANGEROUS THAN KNIVES, FISTS AND NON-PROJECTILE WEAPONS IN A SETTING WHERE 20+ CHILDREN ARE CRAMMED INTO ONE ROOM, AND THE NUMBER OF BULLETS A SEMI CAN LOOSE IN MERE SECONDS. How did this wanker get published? Really, why do people like this exist in a world where we can understand nuclear physics and relativity? Charlotte Allen should step on legos for the rest of her life.
“Capable”? In theory anyone is capable of killing people.
(You are so dumb. Like, really really dumb.)
hippo, where do I sign up?
What am I giving up?
Fuck this “guns don’t kill people” bullshit. Wool doesn’t make jerseys, but making jersys is a lot easier if you have a shitload of wool.
@ CatBeast
Oh, so this is your first encounter with Charlotte Allen? How very lucky you are. She’s awful.
Go on, Diogenes, tell us about how you will create your mythical utopia where no one will ever be violent.
(1) No spanking (I assume this goes only for parents; would consensual adult spanking be allowed, or does that also create sociopaths?)
(2) ???
(3) Profit.
Dio: Maybe you should stop typing. Youain’teven good at it.
Walk away. Be a better man. You don’t have to try to win this argument
Really.
Nobody is expecting you to, anyway.
Are you telling me this woman wrote another, similarly crazy article and still has a job? Is it for the shock value?
@Cassandra: I’m sorta glad I haven’t come across Charlotte wankstain before.
;________; Oh god, why…
I bet I could kill as many people with woolen jerseys as with a semi-automatic weapon, given enough time. THIS DISPROVES YOUR HYPOTHESIS, WEEBOY!
~cloudiah the sarcastic
Allen has quite a history of saying incredibly stupid things in public. You’d think Diogenes would see her as a kindred spirit.
Cassandra, do you have any ideas?
Right after the murders, people who knew him in childhood said he “was weird.” He seems to have had few if any close friends, and had not spoken to his own brother in 2 years. Those aren’t major red flags?
You want easy answers, and you’re not going to get them.
The fact that this guy could grow up into adulthood and not have people close to him is in itself a problem. Its a societal failure.
You want a society with less sociopaths? I have a few suggestions.
-Stop people from hitting their children. It’ll take a while to work, but the next generation wont be as violent.
-Stop jailing 25% of the world America. It reinforces people who have problems to come out of jail with bigger, uglier problems.
-Stop making receiving mental health services punitive.
@Cassandra: Maybe they’re… Secret lovers? *swoons in shock*
So I point out sociopathy as a problem, and the hivemind disagrees with me? How is this even an argument?
If you want a career in the corporate media this is pretty much what you are expected to have in your rotation, along with women opting out of career, the world will end if women don’t have more babies, women don’t rilly rilly want what they say they want, men would save you from yourself if you let them, and how feminists are ruining everything.
“The first two sentences in this Charlotte Allen piece contain five factual errors.”
And I see Diogenes is continuing to be clueless about more subjects. Sigh. There aren’t enough hours in the day…
But don’t, for heaven’s sake, do anything to restrict access to weapons that make killing sprees so much easier. THAT would be stupid.
OMG, yes, that’s right Dio, the FEMINIST HIVEMIND IS IN FAVOR OF SOCIOPATHY, SPANKING CHILDREN, AND JAILING ALL THE MENZ. It’s not just that you’re an idiot prattling on about things you know nothing about.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
Ignore the argument
Attack the speaker
Its manboobz logic in action!
Dio, when no one wants to talk to you, if you had any manners at all, you would take the hint and go away.
Diogenes: You don’t have answers. You have a dream.
That’s nice dear.
Hippo, how come these things tend to not happen in Yemen, Israel, or Switzerland?
pecunium
Ok, so we don’t want mass murders.
Now what? How do we do this according to you?
Diogenes: Ignore the argument
Attack the speaker
What argument?
But you MO is just leave when losing (see the Register Her thread for the most recent example) and pretend as if everything is new when you make a non-argument in a new thread.
Grow up.
THERE’S NO SPANKING IN YEMEN, DUMMIEZ — THAT’S WHY!
Dio: Gooby, pls. Staaahp.
HE’S STILL DIGGING HIS HOLE. CAN’T HE TAKE A HINT? SOMEONE GET A CLUEBAT WE HAVE A SITUATION!
(But seriously, Dio; what you said was ableist and hitting kids is not the only factor that manufactures sociopathy. Please check your privilege, I’m asking you to do so as a non-neurotypical person.)
Also, why is the media trying to pin the blame on Asperger’s as the driving factor for the murders? Oh yeah, because all aspies are scum./Sacrasm.
Diogenes: I’m waiting for your plan.
You are the one positing that we can “make everyone so happy they no one is ever violent”.
So tell me, how is this fantasy to come into being?
Because me, I’m a cynic. I figure that some people will always be violent, the trick is to minimize the damage.
You can stop projecting now, kid. I don’t want or expect easy answers because there are none. In every society there are some people who are very disturbed, and sometimes those people do terrible things. Some societies create more of those people than others, and the reasons for that are a lot more complex than whether or not kids are spanked (and there are countries where kids are more likely to be spanked that have less of this kind of acting out). In the case of the US, I strongly suspect that the national love affair with guns is part of the social stew that creates so many people who act out in violent ways, and that curbing that is part of the solution. Which isn’t going to happen as long as idiots like you keep trying to avoid the issue.
Yay, more stupidity. We don’t really know enough about this guy yet to be sure what was going on with him, but in every society there are some people who others don’t want to be close to because they’re just not very nice people, or because they scare others. The fact that those people tend not to have many friends is not a societal failure. If you think it is you’re welcome to go find the scariest, most inclined towards violence person you can and ask them to be your buddy.
I think society should address the reasons why someone can grow up to become a spree killer. In my opinion thats a higher goal than taking away access to tools to be one.
Look at Tim Mcveigh for example. Killed 168 people with fertilizer. Its not the tools, its the urge thats gotta be fixed.
I think society should address the reasons why someone can grow up to become a spree killer. In my opinion thats a higher goal than taking away access to tools to be one.
That’s a non answer.
BTW, and this is way more important than what DtC is babbling about, if anyone here wants one of these fabulous kitty avatars the instructions are here:
http://manboobz.forummotion.com/t1086-kitty-avatar
(I keep mistaking CatBeast with DtC because GREEN, and I’m just thinking maybe someone named CatBeast might prefer to be a kitty.)
Okay, gotta run and make dinner. Have fun with the troll!
Seriously. It’s not only a non-answer, it’s stupid.
I’ll bet you have no idea what the most horrific event like this one was, nor when it happened, nor what the weapon was.
Sorry one more:
Yeah, it was a little more complicated than that. He wasn’t smothering people in Scotts Super Turf Builder.
About the Aspergers: given (a) the sheer number of shooters we’ve had lately and (b) how common Aspergers is amount the population that is going on these shooting sprees (young, usually white, men), it is just good odds that one of the shooters would have ASD.
After all, this was just three days after a man walked into the Macy’s at a suburban Portland mall and killed two people, and a teenage girl into the hospital for days.
But it’s an answer that neatly relieves him of any obligation to actually do anything about the problem.
CatBeast
If you wanted to create a child that would grow up to be violent, how would you do it?
A chaotic childhood, lots of beatings, verbal abuse, etc. Not saying that everyone who grows up in that sort of environment will become violent, but that kind of environment tends to create people capable of doing horrible things.
Also, from the perspective of someone who actually studied psychology, I have to point out that being an Aspie is not the same thing as being a sociopath. And this doesn’t really fit the profile for a sociopath anyway.
pec, you talking about the Bath School Disaster?
Cassandra, so you have an education relevant to the discussion.
How do we raise people who don’t have violent urges?
If you think that’s a question that can be answered neatly and easily in one comment then you’re even dumber than I thought.