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FeMRA TyphonBlue: What if the men who seem to run the world … AREN’T REALLY MEN?

How women rule the world.

Women ruling the world?

When confronted with the simple fact that men hold the overwhelming majority of positions of power in the world – in government, business, culture, and pretty much everything else – MRAs like to pretend that the actual gender of those in power makes no difference because, well, the men in power are probably a bunch of manginas doing the dirty work of the women who really run the world. Or something like that.

Indeed, some MRAs have even managed to convince themselves that the very basic historical and sociological fact that men in power, by and large, tend to represent men’s interests more than women’s interests is some sort of locical fallacy – something that they’ve labeled  “The Frontman Fallacy.”

Now A Voice for Men contributor and YouTube videoblogger TyphonBlue has done these guys one better in terms of sheer antifeminist loopiness. In the comments on one of the Warren Farrell protest videos I recently wrote about, she argues that men in power don’t really push male interests because … they probably don’t even think of themselves as men.

Here she is, writing under her other nom-de-net Genderratic:

yttyphonbluebizarre3yttyphonbluebizarre2yttyphonbluebizarre

I don’t even know what to say to this. I mean, WHAT?!

PROTIP: You’re not going to convince anyone you’re a great ally of trans* people if you refer to them as “it.”

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Posted on December 9, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, facepalm, FemRAs, frontman fallacy, MRA, oppressed men, transphobia, TyphonBlue, whaaaaa?, YouTube and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 687 Comments.

  1. Another ‘not surprised about the indictment’ person here. I would hate humanity, but there are sparks of progress every once and a while, so I keep hoping.

  2. One of the things I find hardest to understand about virulent racists is the way their racism shuts off the natural adult response that most of us have to the idea of a child being attacked.

  3. I just posted an open thread to discuss Ferguson.

  4. @cassandrakitty, to me that’s the clearest indication of just how fucked up they are. Even children are Other to them.

  5. Valerie Keefe is an actual trans woman, not a dude pretending to be one for trolling purposes, just FYI.

  6. On tangent with the loong troll party of last night, I really hate the term ‘preferred pronouns’. Like, this is my preference, but I also have secondary choices in case that’s a problem? Is that a thing that happens?

    Pepper: And what pronouns would prefer this evening?
    Salt: I’d like she, please.
    Pepper: I’m sorry, we’re all out of ‘she’, do you have a second choice?
    Salt: Could I have ‘zie’, then?
    Pepper: Let me check. Nope, we just used the last one.
    Salt: Well, what do you actually have left?
    Pepper: *checks list* Well, we have ‘sie’, one ‘they’, and lots of ‘mango’. Nobody seems to like mango.

  7. Yeah, Bina, what cassandrakitty said above: VK is a trans woman, and a loathesome misogynist, not some MRA pretending. There’s more overlap than you’d (general you) believe between extreme gender activists and MRAs, until you’ve seen their shit for yourself. The frothing misogyny isn’t all they have in common: a total FAIL at biology is another.

  8. I quite like “preferred pronouns”, because the obvious-to-me alternative is “correct pronouns”, and it’s much easier to police that. Preferred takes us out of the realm where anyone else gets to have an opinion, and into the realm of personal sovereignty. If I say I prefer “he”, then you can talk til the cows come home about whether I deserve “he” or have earned “he” or ought to like “he” or am perpetuating binary oppression by using “he”, but none of that will change the fact that I prefer “he”. If you choose not to use my preferred pronouns, it forces you to be honest that you think you are entitled to select the correct pronouns for me – maybe we can have a conversation about why you think that, but you won’t be able to hide your refusal to honour my preference behind a philosophical disagreement. You’ll have to openly override my decision.
    It’s a bit like dietary preferences: in my world, a dietary preference is to be respected. I don’t need to know whether you’re vegetarian because of animal rights or enviromentalism or Buddhism or digestive comfort. I just don’t need to know why your dietary preference is not to eat meat. I only have to honour that preference.

    unrelatedly, I went and read quite a lot of Keefe’s writing elseweb, and now I feel dysphoric and crappy.

  9. duckbunny – hugs, if they’re welcome.

  10. I just like ‘these are my pronouns’. Cuz it’s NOT up for debate.

    Sorry if I added to the dysphoria. Dysphoria sucks.

  11. Seconding the hugs. Reading Keefe’s stuff is enough to put anyone in a bad mood. I can’t even imagine how much more worse it would be for someone who’s actually trans, but I can imagine having the same sort of “why do I have to be part of the same demographic as these assholes?” reaction I’m having the the people cheerleading Wilson.

  12. If you factor in Valerie’s belief that she is so much better at being a woman than we are, it makes perfect sense that she’s an MRA. Part of their ideology is that women get everything easier than men, but they are also terrible. If you take that line of thinking to it’s logical conclusion, becoming a woman makes perfect sense. It’s all the other MRAs who stay men who are the hypercritical.

  13. Puddleglum: yeah, I can see that aspect. “My pronoun IS” has a definite appeal.

    Keefe’s worldview is… yeah. She speculates on people presenting as cis men being secretly trans women based on having in-her-eyes feminine features, but trans men are “dudebros”. It’s like trans women are the only real women, but trans men are fake men.
    And then she started going on about how transitioning before the end of puberty is important for women but not really for men because for us “time isn’t skeleton”. The width of my pelvis would like to disagree, as would the calcification of my long bones.
    And then I got dysphoric, because apparently all the way in which my body is irreversibly feminised just aren’t important. Trans men have it easy. Nobody’s heard of us, but we have it easy.

  14. There seems to be a strong vein of hatred for trans men in the specific form of trans woman activism that Keefe represents, and I find it deeply troubling. It’s showing up in more and more spaces too, I’ve even seen people drop comments suggesting that they subscribe to that worldview here.

  15. Or maybe contempt would be a better word? I don’t know quite how to put it, there’s just a very strong sense of “you don’t matter” coming across in reference to trans men.

  16. Catherine von Überwald

    After reading few pages of her tumblr, I don’t think that in her word-view anybody who’s not her or thinking just like her, matter at all.

  17. Keefe et al seem to hate trans men, because they’re not real men, and cis women, because we’re not real women (yes you read that correctly). They manage to ignore cis men entirely (funny that) and hold trans women up as the only humans Doin It Right. Yet they’re also of the variety who sneer at people with dysphoria, because apparently the only right and true way of being trans is to be male and declare yourself female, without even necessarily doing anything about transitioning. It really is like men trying to erase or subsume everything about being female.

  18. Catherine – that probably sums her up.

    I’d love to see her get into an argument with Fidelbogen. Such purple word-salad ragefroth would be entertaining, if largely incomprehensible.

  19. I looked up some of VK’s online presence. Oh, my, but she should get a refund from Dale Carnegie. There are all SORTS of folks who just don’t like her. Oddly, both people I’d like and those I’d cross the street to avoid are in that category.

    If she does write a piece about how cruelly we treated her, would someone link to it, please? I could do with a good laugh.

  20. Oh, my, but she should get a refund from Dale Carnegie.

    LOL!

  21. Are the tweets worth reading or will they just make me want to give up and start singing the rubber ducky song again?

  22. The tweets are not worth reading.

  23. I’m sort of enjoying her tweet screeds but I’m easily amused. I just like how she’s condemning David for all sorts of anti-transfeminity crimes, she even has receipts!, without bothering to make any reasonable, or even intelligible, points.

    My favorite passive aggressive, disingenious moment:

    @DavidFutrelle But you go on believing it was in bad faith. I understand the need to project from someone with Rich-quoting commenters.

  24. She also thinks David was totes unfair to Typhonblue, of all fucking people. Tee hee.

  25. When was the last time someone quoted Rich here? I don’t even remember that, and I’ve been here for a while.

    (Not that it would be a sin anyway. I’m still not sure why Robin Morgan is supposed to be under house arrest either.)

  26. See? FeMRA.

  27. Keefe is the only MRA I was familiar with well before discovering David’s blog, I’ve been rolling my eyes at Keefe’s antics for years, sadly. She pulls this same shit in comment threads at The Bilerico Project and similar LBGT sites, plus her HuffPo columns are a waking nightmare full of MRA non-facts and cheap debating tricks. Watching her implode here was an early holiday treat for me.

  28. Discovering that it was an entire movement rather than one lone crackpot can’t have been much fun, though.

  29. Out of curiosity, how well received were her “feminists are to blame for everything” arguments received on Bilerico and so on?

  30. I can’t figure out why seemingly all the internet FeMRAs of, er, note are Canadian. I guess hardcore antifeminists can get book deals in the US, but their Canadian counterpoints have to settle for ranting about how terrible women and/or feminists are to an online audience of asshole guys.

  31. My theory would be, OK, let’s say you’re a screeching ragemonkey of the kind that tends to find the MRM appealing, and you live in Canada, where people are on average calm and nice and generally affable. Wouldn’t it drive you nuts? Walking around in perma-rage mode, surrounded by all these genial individuals who, when you attempt to enlist them in your vendetta of the week, shrug and say “oh well, that’s just how it is, eh”? Wouldn’t that drive you nuts?

    And that’s how they end up with YouTube channels. Or at least that’s my theory.

  32. The Bilerico stuff was years ago, but she was a pain in the ass to anyone who didn’t agree with every fucking thing she said. It’s mostly gay men so she focused on yelling at them and trans men, natch. I remember her picking a fight with an intersex activist (don’t ask) and claiming that she has little privilege as a poor transwomen “prole”, because race and education don’t seemingly factor in. As other people noticed, she seems to spend a lot of time defending cis men and denouncing cis women even while pretending to focus on trans issues. She’s delightfully a conservative with “libertarian leanings” IIRC.

    And I don’t care if I remember correctly, quite honestly. I was going to google up some of her past bullshit, but I done with her, unless it’s happily picturing her raging against David and the mod “silencing” her.

  33. And that’s how they end up with YouTube channels. Or at least that’s my theory.

    And we end up with a woman lecturing her a toaster about male disposability for two hours. Your theory has merit.

  34. Catherine von Überwald

    At first I also found the tweets amusing (especially the ones where she try to ping David but misspells Futrelle).
    But after reading some more of her tumblr posts I’m just too fed up with rampant misogyny on display.

    It’s beyond me how she can consider herself some kind of a feminist but still write this:

    Too many of my lesbian friends don’t want to hurt the precious feelings of these cissexually-constructed ‘females,’ (as though mullerian bits do, a female make), don’t want to dispute how they ‘identify’ when they’ve never had to really face misogyny without the training wheels of a patriarchal society designed to do everything to reaffirm their chosen role as cisheterosexual fuckholes. These ciswomen are bred by men to replace womyn and especially lesbian womyn.

    http://valeriekeefe.tumblr.com/post/103446710586/peak-cis

  35. It seems like a good general rule to assume that people who are feminists do not refer to women as “fuckholes”, yes.

    Didn’t we just have this conversation about Christina Hoff Sommers? If you call yourself a feminist, but consistently talk and act like an anti-feminist and do your best to undermine feminism whenever you can, then you are not in fact a feminist, because words mean things.

    Also, the social justice aikido via linguistic weirdness she’s attempting in the comment above? Imagine your average person who’re not familiar with any of this stuff trying to make sense of that. They’re not going to go “wow, my mind is blown”, they’re just going to frown and look confused.

  36. patriarchal society = training wheels for lesbians facing misogyny. Okdokey.

  37. My chosen role is not a cisheterosexual fuckhole.

    Feminism, what was that about again?

  38. Catherine von Überwald

    Funny you should mention Christina Hoff Sommers.
    VK also have a rebloged post about Sommers totally being a feminists.
    So, I think it’s just another example of “words mean what I want them to mean” mindset.

  39. I’m also curious where the farm upon which young cis lesbians are being bred is located.

  40. More from Valerie.

    The central thread running through my feminism is that you don’t face anything resembling the kind of full on, unbridled, vicious misogyny trans women face. You just don’t. There are people there to rush to your defense in a way they never would for me.

    I think she should go have a chat with Zoe Quinn, it might be illuminating. And also notice that the people who rushed to Quinn’s defense? Have been defending Brianna Wu too.

  41. I hope they’re raising the young cis lesbians as free-range. Do you think they’re cornfed?

    And re the bit you just quoted, so she wants to be damselled? That’s her key issue?

  42. These chocolate covered almonds I’m eating came from Trader Joe’s, and I didn’t check the label. Shit, this probably means that I’m a non-organic bisexual, doesn’t it? At this rate they may not let me back on the farm.

  43. You’re a purple cat, so you could be anything.

  44. ignorantianescia

    And also notice that the people who rushed to Quinn’s defense? Have been defending Brianna Wu too.

    I am almost certain that the talking point of transsexualism has been fabricated by GamerGate, if that’s what you meant. It’s how they work, they just throw around accusations to soil the results of search engines. That might be very harmful, because of the transphobia rampant in society.

    Their motivation is that they’re transphobic (that’s a given) and probably inspired by her acknowledgement of the plight of trans* people in the industry: http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment

    My understanding of their evidence is limited, but I think their argument boils down to “her hands are too large for a woman” and “her face looks male”. So it’s all sexist, transphobic garbage.

    It is a classic catch-22: don’t be vocal enough in rebutting the claim and it won’t be noticed, be too vocal and people will call your advocacy for trans* people hypocritical or insincere. There’s no doubt that some GamerGaters are deliberately this malicious with their tactics.

  45. Oh, dear dog! I can’t with this.

    Damselling does not exist, except as some faux-chivalrous exercise in mind wanking. And talk about solipsism! “Only I know what true suffering is! You’re all faking it!”

    Also, back to the 8 year old not being traumatised because she will be damselled; nice way to make a child’s rape all about teh menz! Obviously, women and girls who are not trans only exist when a male type person looks at them. She fails at compassion. Can you imagine how painful it must be to go through life that filled with rage and hatred and bitter entitlement?

    Also, about all the Canadian FeMRA’s – I apologise profusely for the horrible behaviour of my countrywomen. If I’ve ever met one of these charmers in real life, they at least had the (?) decency to keep it quiet.

  46. ignorantianescia

    Addition:

    Of course, nothing of the previous post means that standing up against misplaced transphobia is anything other than sincerely standing up against transphobia. cassandrakitty’s point about how Quinn’s defenders oppose transphobic pile is also unaffected by my post.

  47. ignorantianescia

    Eh, make that “my previous post”.

  48. Transphobia is wrong and bad and people who discriminate against or abuse transpeople are horrid. However, calling a jerk (who happens to be a transwoman) a jerk because she said jerky things does not make anyone a transphobe.

  49. @Alex:

    Permission granted!

  50. The central thread running through my feminism is that you don’t face anything resembling the kind of full on, unbridled, vicious misogyny trans women face. You just don’t. There are people there to rush to your defense in a way they never would for me.

    Wait what?

    The higher incidence of misogyny trans people experience invalidates the feminism of other people?

    So a woman born a woman experiences less misogyny than a woman becoming her self because… But that would imply misogyny is especially severe for “men becoming women”, assumption being because they willingly choose/desire the inferior binary role, so it loops back around and wait is she more of a woman than the people who can happily rely on the fact that their identity is assigned by others desiring more fuck holes and this is somehow a bad thing for *the trans person who does not get that free role affirmation*

    Hhhccchhhkkkkkkkkkk
    Fibi.exe encountered a fatal error. Runtime ceased. Reboot.

  51. Thanks, kirbywarp!

  52. I suggest you have some chocolate, abandon logic, and avoid this train wreck of a thread, Fibinachi. Then, I’m sure you’ll feel better soon, and that blue screen of death thing will clear right up.

  53. Reading Valerie’s writing…it’s like Fidelbogan and the TimeCube guy had a baby, and then hired Michel Foucoult as a tutor.

  54. You kids keep it quiet down here, some of us are trying to sleep!

    Oh, the party’s over already?

  55. Maybe Valerie had sads because David didn’t write a single post about her FeMRA stuff. Cuz everyone knows that to be featured in a post here totally improves your status among other MRAs.

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