MGTOWer: “Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good.”
Like women, cats are sneaky creatures, up to no good.
So over on MGTOWforums, the regulars are pondering the age-old question – should these committed women-avoiders deal with their continued desire to stick their penises in the women they’re allegedly avoiding by resorting to prostitutes?
In the midst of a lively discussion on the advantages of “going pro” over trying to pick up a “bar hog,” one regular by the nom de internet Xtc sets forth some thoughts that, for a moment at least, seem to transcend the usual MGTOW crudity and bitterness.
“I don’t think it’s really about sex,” he writes. “I think what a lot of people are looking for is love, respect, and intimacy – which you can’t buy.”
Why, that almost seems like an insight!
Alas, in his very next sentence he spoils the moment by returning to the standard MGTOW narrative of female perfidy:
I think what put me off women altogether was the realisation that you’ll NEVER get [love, respect, and intimacy] for real. It’s sad and sobering, but that’s the way it is.
Thinking that the attention of women validates you as a person collapses once you realise they are attracted to the worst qualities in the worst men.
Thinking that the attention of women equals affection, intimacy, or love – collapses once you realise they will leave you in a second if they sense any weakness or if a BBD [bigger better deal] comes along. Then you’ll realise that the meter was running all the time, whether this was clear at the time or not.
Women are like a bitter medicine that you force yourself to swallow because you believe it is doing you good. Once you realise it’s a quack remedy, and the whole thing is a scam, you’re free to spit it out and never partake again.
That leaves you with sex alone, which is really rather easy to come by.
If women really and truly are “attracted to the worst qualities of the worst men,” why aren’t they lining up at these dudes’ front doors?
Posted on November 28, 2012, in $MONEY$, alpha males, evil women, hypergamy, men who should not ever be with women ever, MGTOW, MGTOW paradox, misogyny, sex and tagged mgtow, misogyny. Bookmark the permalink. 1,159 Comments.
Bob: “In retrospect I wanted her to not promise things she couldn’t and wouldn’t deliver on. In what world do you communicate enthusiastic plans to marry if you are not enthusiastic about the other person? And if you do have deep feelings for somebody, why not try and work things out? Why throw the baby out with the bathwater? ”
Thanks for answering my questions in that sentence there. Unfortunately, i cannot answer the questions you’ve asked that follow. I don’t know why any of those things happened between you and your GF. I recommend discussing this with a professional who can help you come to terms with this personal tragedy that you have suffered. You clearly are very hurt and wounded and you don’t know what happened. You can only move past it through careful introspection and/or help from a person good at guiding that process.
But here’s the problem that we’ve all been noticing. This problem you experienced, that is your personal problem, and you are applying it to all people. I was once called a name by a guy. Doesn’t mean i’m going to go into various blog comment threads and say that there is a subculture of women who are checking out and men have to take responsibility for it because they’re always calling women names.
“At this point, I am pretty sure Bob’s girlfriend was lying to him because she was afraid of him.”
You know nothing about our day to day dynamic or how I treated her, but you are comfortable with labeling me an abuser that hits women and is manipulative and controlling. Good job! You are absolutely not the mirror images of the MRAs you so bitterly hate.
Bob, you were talking earlier about emotional violence and time theft. Not listening to people, attempting to gas-light them by shifting goalposts and not admitting to your original offensive argument, etc, is actually abusing and emotional violence. There are more ways to abuse than with by hitting.
Bob, please refresh my memory: why are you here?
Bob does not seem to realize how much of his underlying character he has exposed in his long rants here.
“But if you are in serious relationship with somebody, is there not an implicit understanding that [a lot of stuff that should actually be discussed explicitly.”
I have to be pedantic and say “You’re not going to abandon me after pretending everything is peachy, right? If something is bothering you, you’ll actually tell me, right?” That doesn’t go without saying if you’re trying to have a relationship with an adult and not a child?
You can call it pedantic, Bob, but the rest of us might calling it having an adult relationship. That you would call it pedantic, however, is very telling.
Or that emotionally abusive behavior patterns aren’t familiar as shit to people here.
How about “Hey, hon, can I talk to you? I’m honestly a little worried about how you’re hoping to be in heaven. Can you talk to me more about that? Because obviously maybe I should hold out on those wedding invitations until i know where you want to hold the wedding, the chapel over in Morristown or THE ONE IN HEAVEN?”
Grown ups in grown up relationships talk to each other about lots of things, Bob. It has nothing to do with being pedantic and everything to do with, sound it out now, com-mu-ni-ca-tion. Children invent their world all the time. Adults don’t have that luxury.
“Not listening to people, attempting to gas-light them by shifting goalposts and not admitting to your original offensive argument, etc, is actually abusing and emotional violence. There are more ways to abuse than with by hitting.”
You have evidence that I abused my ex-girlfriend? Pretty sad, but this is how you guys prefer to argue. Express pain and bewilderment over somebody’s decision to do what they feel is best for them, even though I didn’t like it, and abided by their decision without interfering, and get labeled an abuser. Don’t express anti-gay bigotry, get labeled a homophobe. Make the accurate observation that Saudi Arabian society treats women as second-class citizens, get labeled a racist. Make the accurate observation that relationship patterns in the West constitute men usually pursue women, alrhough there are exceptions, get labeled a sexist. Apparently if you have observed that most of the time it is the men who do the asking out, this means you think women are emotionally and mentally inferior to men.
It’s been pretty eye-opening to say the least. I have a low opinion of MRAs because they have let their bitterness and hatred infect their psyches and they’ve descended into misogyny, but at least they have mastered basic reading comprehension. They can counter your actual argument instead of what they want to argue.
Adults change their minds, bob. What can you do? Do you expect a collective apology from women everywhere because your ex bailed? Come on. Actually, it would have been more childish of her to stick with the relationship if her instincts told her not to. Some self-awareness may have kicked in. Can you honestly say it would have been — and more fair if she had gone on “pretending?”
Bob, how on Earth could this place have been eye-opening for you? You’ve only seen what you wanted. We’re not kissing your ass and telling you how right about women you are, so apparently we can’t read. OK, then.
““Hey, hon, can I talk to you? I’m honestly a little worried about how you’re hoping to be in heaven. Can you talk to me more about that? Because obviously maybe I should hold out on those wedding invitations until i know where you want to hold the wedding, the chapel over in Morristown or THE ONE IN HEAVEN?””
That’s exactly the conversation I would have had with her in retrospect. It’s on me that I chose to gloss over that.
Also, i check in with my husband all the time. i’ve noticed over the years that he has a hard time talking about his darker, sadder emotions. This doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel sad, merely that bringing up feeling sad is hard, and, knowing that, every few months (more often in winter!) i bring him a treat, sit with him, and let him know how much I love him and that, because i love him, I want him to tell me how he thinks things are going between us, if he has any outstanding issues that may feel unresolved, if he has any thing that he’s worried about, both in our relationship and in life beyond our little circle of two. So, yeah, bob, it’s pedantic to check in and ask if the person you love is still happy. Even when they act happy.
Bob tries to pull standard emotionally abusive moves on us, and is shocked — SHOCKED, I tell you — when we think he might do the same in his personal relationships.
So it’s not pedantic after all?
“Adults change their minds, bob. What can you do? Do you expect a collective apology from women everywhere because your ex bailed? ”
Just an acknowledgement that it’s not only men that struggle with intimate, close relationships. I get sick of double standards. What do you think would have happened if they shoe had been on the other foot? I would be judged way more harshly by society than her for cutting and running like that.
For the last two days you have, in fact, been arguing that women are mentally and emotionally inferior. Just because you haven’t been using gender slurs doesn’t mean that you haven’t been. Sorry to burst your bubble, Bob; you have in fact descended into misogyny.
Bob: Do you think it is wrong to lead people on?
Depends on what you mean by, “lead people on”. We don’t know what happened (if you’ve not seen Rashamon order it on NEtflix).
We have you, justifying your rules for life with the story you told us. A story you aren’t paying attention to. A story in which the woman tells the man a perfectly valid reason (which context, and everything) for her decisions.
Which you are all Young Werther over, because you didn’t get what you wanted.
That sucks. But it’s not “being led on”. You wanted her to marry, “your friend”. Even though she didn’t want to. Then you’d have wanted her to stay married.
In short, her desires don’t mean shit to you; but this is what you describe as, “being willing to do anything for her”.
If that’s the case, what you need to do is get over it, get over yourself; do some serious introspection (however you do that, retreat to a zen monastery, talk to a therapist, hike the Pacific Crest Trail, follow The Dead, whatever).
You seem to think that I am arguing that any woman over the age of 27 should rush and get married to the first guy that comes along that isn’t a functioning derelict without first exploring whether or not a life together is something they want to pursue.
That seems to be what you are advocating.
Pop-quiz: If a woman has been seeing someone for 6 months, and the sex is good, and the dates aren’t awkward and she’s 27-32 and he pops the question: What are the grounds you think she has to say “no”?
“Even when they act happy.”
If somebody is acting happy, why would I suspect they are feeling otherwise? We had those sorts of “temperature-taking” conversations all the time.
Motherfucker, did we SAY that only men struggle with this shit? No. But we did mention that it’s not nearly the BFD you seem to think because you got burned.
We seem to be able to realize that one bad break does not equal all bad breaks.
Bob: You seriously think mating patterns in ancient Rome are germane and relevant to the institution of marriage in North America in the 21st Century?
Only insofar as you said that no group, any time, in any place, ever expected marriage to be non-permanent.
You were the one who made Classical Rome relevant.
Learn to cope with the disappointments which stem from your actions.
re Judaism and ketubim : I think it’s pretty pedantic.
Only if yo consider that having one’s entire line of argument to be utter bullshit is pedantry. Again, you made a universal claim. You were wrong.
You really need to work on the whole accepting unpleasant realities thing.
if you’re a mature adult, you let them leave and don’t try to arm-twist or manipulate them into staying.
Which isn’t what “your friend” did. Your “friend” told his partner that she didn’t have a good reason for leaving (which isn’t true), and that she needed to stay and work it out.
So the example you provided is of someone acting in a way you describe as not being a mature adult. You might want to consider what that says about your, “friend”.
you’re accusing me of goalpost shifting?
Yep. You’re quick. I said it in simple words and you figured it out. Kudos.
But when you say, “ I would not want to get married to somebody who thinks of our marriage in terms of “It’s fine for now, we’ll see how it goes.” You are misrepresenting the facts.
Jews don’t get married with the expectation of it ending. They do it with every intent of making that wonderful love story the tragedy of someone who lives past the death of a beloved spouse.
Part of how they do that is by admitting up front that marriages can end. They lay out just what that couple will do if it fails, and they have to dissolve it.
That reminds them that marriage is work, and that if they don’t work at it, if they take it easy, counting on, ” ’til death us do part”, to make it last, then they are fools.
You, however, want women to say, “He’s decent, and I’m getting up there, so I need to marry him and never leave, even if it’s not working, because I might hurt his feelings.
So you are a fool, at least twice over.
Are you saying men usually asking women out makes dudes second class citizens? Weird, you make it sound like a law. And some women do the asking, and no one is forcing you to persue anyone.
Bob: “That’s exactly the conversation I would have had with her in retrospect. It’s on me that I chose to gloss over that.”
So, bob, basically in nearly 600 comments, you’ve learned actually that it was in fact your fault that you were gobsmacked by her leaving, and that it was not actually the fault of womenkind?
Okay, guys! It looked touch and go for a while, but we pulled it out! but maybe we need a strategy for better return on investment next time?
Says whole country hasn’t “evolved.” Can’t understand why anyone else would see that as racist.
“That sucks. But it’s not “being led on”. You wanted her to marry, “your friend”. Even though she didn’t want to. Then you’d have wanted her to stay married.”
No, I stated pretty clearly that I don’t want to be with somebody that is only there out of obligation, pity, guilt and not desire. What I want is for people’s words to match their actions. What I want is for people to not be so reckless with other people’s hearts. That’s not the same thing as sticking with another person no matter what.
Again, this is your shit that you brought here. No one here was talking about how men are the only people who struggle with close relationships. The only person who’s been slinging about double standards has been you! There may well be people who would’ve judged you harshly for leaving her, Bob but we aren’t those people.
You can’t make that happen. The sooner you unclench and realize that, the happier you’ll be.
“Says whole country hasn’t “evolved.” Can’t understand why anyone else would see that as racist.”
Are women treated like second-class citizens or not in Saudi Arabia? That does not preclude individual Muslims having more enlightened attitudes, but are woman treated well in Saudi Arabia or not? That supposedly makes me a racist?
Is Bob 17? I only ask because I think I had a rant similar after my first dumping as a teenager.
Well, we’ll always have the cat gifs.
Bob: In retrospect I wanted her to not promise things she couldn’t and wouldn’t deliver on.
And she didn’t. She realised she couldn’t/wouldn’t be able to marry you. To give you the love, and lover, you deserved. So she broke it off.
What you want is for the “yes, I will marry you” to be a permanent state. A binding obligation, forever and ever (even though that’s never actually been the case, for any culture in the world).
She did right by you, and you are pissed off about it.
Dude, that’s sad.
“You, however, want women to say, “He’s decent, and I’m getting up there, so I need to marry him and never leave, even if it’s not working, because I might hurt his feelings.
So you are a fool, at least twice over.”
That is a complete distortion of my earlier comment and you know it. In fact what I said was pretty much the same as what you said, that people go into marriages with the best of hopes and intentions.
And there go the goalposts…
I’m scared that he might actually be over the age of thirty.
“What you want is for the “yes, I will marry you” to be a permanent state”
No, what I want is for people to be way more careful before they start throwing around such promises. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. I agree that it’s better for her to do what she did before and not after we had gotten married, since it was unavoidable.
@Cloudiah “Well, we’ll always have the cat gifs.”
You’re right I hadn’t factored those into the equation!
GUISE THIS WAS A BANNER THREAD! :D
Hi denizens of manboobz! My first comment (I’ve been lurking for a few months; I read the threads on my commutes to work). I think all of you are hilarious and brilliant (minus the trolls, who are just hilarious when they aren’t being repugnant).
But anyways. Y’all have pretty much covered everything wrong with Bob’s argument and I don’t mean to be repetitive (though it’s kind of unavoidable with trolls). But one thing that still boggles me about his first argument (there have been SO MANY shifting arguments with this one) is how MGTOW is natural because it’s about men saying they won’t conform to society’s pressures for them to get married/have kids as though those are the only options.
I mean…does he not realize women have been dealing with that pressure for CENTURIES? And yes, men in history were also expected to get married, but it wasn’t near the pressure women faced, the idea that marriage and children is ALL we were good for, and our lives would be MEANINGLESS without them, and we were DEFECTIVE if we couldn’t/wouldn’t pursue that.
Quite frankly, I still see way more of THAT than the notion that men are worthless if they don’t get married. As a trope, they might get called immature, but not defective or useless.
Also. Bob. People who DELIBERATELY lead people on with the SOLE PURPOSE of hurting them are not nice people. Satisfied? But by your own account, to me that doesn’t sound like what Girl did. Seems like she tried really, really hard to be what you wanted, and really wanted to get married or believed she should really want it, and in the end she just couldn’t. She gave you an explanation (which again, no one is owed), and you were unable to talk her out of it (which is the problem with explanations: people think they can fix it). It’s sad, but it’s not indicative of this massive cultural movement against marriage which (in your mind) is caused MORE by women than men. (Note: that’s where the accusation of sexism starts).
It is always, always, always our fault. Women and the gays (because OBVIOUSLY there is no intersection between the two) ::sarcasm::
(Apologies for the capitalization stuff, I don’t know how to do bold/italics and whatnot)
mfw i checked manboobz today
It is. It’s very sad; I’m not even being sarcastic.
It’s also inevitable when, instead of processing your hurt, pain and confusion, you decide that women are frivolous and emotionally immature.
“She did right by you, and you are pissed off about it.
Dude, that’s sad.”
In what universe is that kind of behavior “doing right by me?” It’s sad that you think that’s acceptable. Sparing me an even worse outcome in the future? Sure, that’s obvious. How about not putting certain things on the table to begin with?
“I agree that it’s better for her to do what she did before and not after we had gotten married, since it was unavoidable.”
But you still seem angry. Why? The whole thing was “unavoidable.”
I’m so confused. What does Bob want from us?????
A gif representing Bob’s contortions when arguing.
Bob. Please. For the love of little fishes.
You aren’t talking about “people,” you’re talking about you. You’re talking about you. Your relationship with your former fiance. You are talking about you.
“In what universe is that kind of behavior “doing right by me?” It’s sad that you think that’s acceptable. Sparing me an even worse outcome in the future? Sure, that’s obvious. How about not putting certain things on the table to begin.”
OK, now it sounds like you expect to live in this universe and never have to experience anything negative. Either you accept that not marrying her turned out to be for the best or you don’t. You keep changing your mind.
“It is. It’s very sad; I’m not even being sarcastic.
It’s also inevitable when, instead of processing your hurt, pain and confusion, you decide that women are frivolous and emotionally immature.”
So you would have no problem getting seriously involved with a person, they start talking out their ass about how much they want to be with you for the long-term, they never communicate any problems or concerns, up until the very end they make it clear they are “Full spead ahead” and then at the start of a family crisis, they bail without anything more than “I don’t want to” and you think she “did right by me.” If she were going to do right by me, how about when the subject of marriage came up, she said “Things are going great now, but why don’t we revisit that subject down the road? I’m not comfortable starting to make such long-term plans right now.” And you think she did right by me, just because in the end I was spared lawyer fees and sparring over custody rights and visitation schedules. That’s messed up.
The one in which she had her own come-to-Jesus moment, realized her mistake and risked the wrath and judgment of you, her family, and our culture in act of incredible bravery that saved you both from a loveless marriage.
Bob: Consider the irony… It’s been pretty eye-opening to say the least. I have a low opinion of MRAs because they have let their bitterness and hatred infect their psyches
And compare that to the tens of thousands of words you’ve written here about how bitter you are at all women (see above the shit about, “leaving because they are bored”, and the ills of no-fault divorce, and the 27 year olds who spurn perfectly decent dudes… and the evidence provided to show that all of that was bullshit).
You’ve let bitterness infect your psyche. Hatred may follow.
Just an acknowledgement that it’s not only men that struggle with intimate, close relationships.
And that bit of codswallop is why people here think you were/are emotionally abusive (that or denser than neutronium). No one here has said any such thing.
Just like this makes me think you are prone to emotionally abusive behaviors: No, I stated pretty clearly that I don’t want to be with somebody that is only there out of obligation, pity, guilt and not desire.
If that’s what you think… what the fucking problem?
Seriously.
If that’s what you want, then the reason she gave is MORE than “adequate”. Hell, if that’s what you think then every single line of argument you’ve made about divorce is diametrically opposed to your belief system.
So which is it… is “boredom” not grounds for divorce? Or is staying out of “obligation, pity, guilt, and not desire” the thing women have to do.
You can’t have both; you have to choose.
I’m home sick today, so you might be seeing lots of cat gifs from me. I’m just sayin’.
“The one in which she had her own come-to-Jesus moment, realized her mistake and risked the wrath and judgment of you, her family, and our culture in act of incredible bravery that saved you both from a loveless marriage.”
Yes, that’s very brave. I can think of something that required even more courage: At an earlier point, risking me ending things because I wasn’t sure this person could meet my long-term needs by saying “Things are going great now, but why don’t we revisit that subject down the road? I’m not comfortable starting to make such long-term plans right now.”
This is exactly what I’m talking about. Just about anything a woman does can be spun as courageous and brave. If I had done what she did in the same manner, I would be an evil, cowardly piece of shit.
Bob, I would be hurt and sad and confused. I wouldn’t throw up my hands and decide that it’s because men as a group are emotionally immature and frivolous, and all the other bullshit you’ve thrown around this thread for the last two days.
Own. Your. Shit.
Maybe I’ll go take a little nap after this one.
Carry on.
Cloudiah: sorry you’re sick, but the cat gifs are making my day.
Bullshit.
This is you, projecting your insecurities and prejudices onto me. I did actually counsel a guy friend of mine to end a serious engagement. He loved her but didn’t want to be married. He’d proposed out of fear that he would lose her. He didn’t want to be married. He started acting out. We talked a lot. He didn’t want to be married.
I told him that he had to end it; if it wasn’t something about their relationship and just that he didn’t really want to be married, then he was going to have to take his lumps (possibly come up off some reimbursement cash) and end it. He said “I’ll be a terrible person.” I said, “Marrying a woman you don’t want to be married to and breaking her heart will be worse.”
Deal with your shit, Bob. Get off the MGTOW boards and forums. You aren’t doing better.
Bob: That is a complete distortion of my earlier comment and you know it.
Is it? I don’t think so, and your second clause doesn’t relate to what I said: In fact what I said was pretty much the same as what you said, that people go into marriages with the best of hopes and intentions.
I wasn’t talking about people’s expectations when they decide to get married. I was talking about your complaint that 27 year old women are “turning down suitors of decent character”.
No, what I want is for people to be way more careful before they start throwing around such promises.
Are you accusing her of knowing she didn’t want to marry you when she said yes? That’s cold. Have any evidence to support it?
IIn what universe is that kind of behavior “doing right by me?” It’s sad that you think that’s acceptable. Sparing me an even worse outcome in the future? Sure, that’s obvious. How about not putting certain things on the table to begin with?
And you double down. You are, basically, accusing her of jerking you around from the beginning. Of intending to “jilt” you. Got proof? No.
You haven’t been honest with us (see the shift from, “my friend” to it being your personal story; as well as the inability to keep to any single argument; or admit when you’ve been given information you demanded; because it proved your thesis to be invalid on it’s face).
Why should we give you the benefit of doubt? What have we got to judge you on? A mish-mash of half-truths, changed stories and shifting goalposts.
I second that call of bullshit.
Why do you assume we’d demonize a man who decided getting married just because other people wanted him to is a bad idea. No one here even came close to saying that.
Bee: I’m so confused. What does Bob want from us?????
To tell him he was hard done by. Since he wasn’t, it’s not going to happen. Which offends him, and gives him a sad.
I don’t know, Pecunium. Bob is a pretty classic example of wanting to have cake and eat cake.
I think he wants us to admit that some women do bad things…using his personal example as proof.
Except we know some women do bad things…but your personal example wasn’t a good example of that.
That would be a problem if it happened to me — and it certainly HAS happened to me that a breakup seemingly came out of nowhere — but it wouldn’t lead me to an inference that men in general are frivolous and emotionally immature. Seriously, let’s state the obvious here: if you are heterosexual male, it’s a safe bet you’ve never been involved in a relationship with a man. So your argument on how men supposedly treat women better than women treat men is based on (1) your self-serving perception of your own relationships; and (2) self-serving statements made by your male buddies. Based on these two things, you make the myopic assumption that men don’t do the shit that you accuse women of doing. Or maybe you believe, though you won’t explicitly say it, that men are the default “people”, and thus it is women’s responsibility to adjust in order to meet men’s dreams and expectations, while men do not have a reciprocal obligation. Whatever your stance on this, you should realize that all of us have been hurt, badly. I think I’m not a horrible person, and I was quite easy on the eye in my dating days (if I say so myself) — and yet, surprise surprise, I didn’t get to date every man I was ever interested in, and I was occasionally treated horribly by men and had my heart broken repeatedly. Including by an ex-husband who, you know, promised to be nice to me forever and ever. So saying this nonsense that relationships are “on women’s terms” simply because one woman had the audacity to dash your hopes is self-centered and just plain absurd. You have no experience of being with a man, so you can’t say on whose terms relationships are from a woman’s point of view.
Maybe she felt that she did want to marry you until something happened that made her reconsider. I know that it’s happened to me a number of times when a seemingly small occurrence flipped a switch inside my head and told that this man was not worth my time, and I wanted to get away immediately. It’s normal for people to feel conflicted, and to be unable to articulate those conflicts in a way that you seem to be demanding, it takes time to sort out their thoughts. And, it’s pretty much impossible to continually update another person on the conflicts that go on inside your head until your thoughts have coagulated. “Hey, darling? That story that you told me about that practical joke that put a girl in a hospital for a couple of days left a really bad taste in my mouth, and I although I now feel so put off that I am not sure I’ll be able to do it with you anymore, and I wonder whether you are a fit person to raise our children, I guess owe you a few months of couples counseling, so … separate bedrooms and I’ll get out my check book? Maybe someone with a PhD will help me overlook my doubts.” Sorry, it doesn’t work that way.
NOW who’s being cavalier about divorce?
Bob: This is exactly what I’m talking about. Just about anything a woman does can be spun as courageous and brave. If I had done what she did in the same manner, I would be an evil, cowardly piece of shit.
You’re channeling your inner MRA.
My first fiancée treated me shabbily: She didn’t give me a good idea of what it was she expected from me, and when the circumstances (I’d moved 400 miles, and left full-time employment in the process, had no good support network, etc) she broke up with me.
That wasn’t a complete surprise; painful though it was. That she broke up with me that evening because she wanted to see someone else; right away. That was shitty.
That she didn’t have the decency to spend her nights with him at his place, but brought him back to ours… that was really shitty.
She didn’t do right by me. I’d say that she was a sad, and sorry, excuse for a human being. It was about a year before I got out of the really fucked up headspace.
That’s not what happened to you. What happened to you was someone realised they couldn’t do what they’d thought they were able to.
And you are pissed off.
That’s childish. It self-destructive. It’s stupid.
You want us to agree that you were screwed over. Well, from the details you gave, you weren’t. Had she ignored that, and married you… then you’d be right to say she didn’t do right by you. If she knew, at the outset, that marriage wasn’t going to happen, then she did you wrong.
But you’ve given no indication that was the case. Which is why I said you want the acceptance of the proposal to be the same as the vow; and you don’t believe in divorce.
That makes you a selfish asshole.
Remember like eight pages back when divorce was this terrible thing that women did out of nothing but boredom and the desire for profit?
I have to go and shop for supper (we have houseguests, I think they are going to be home for supper). I’ll be back to deal with The Tomes o’ Bob later.
Have fun with the piñata while I’m gone. Save me some candy.
Ah, yes. Eight pages back, or as I like to call it, “the good old days.”
Oh no! I have been led on. They aren’t going to be home for supper, and are keeping my partner from coming home. WOE IS ME! My life is destroyed. Whatever shall I do?
Probably go out and eat at the local estaminet; though the best of those are closed; it being Monday.
“And you are pissed off.
That’s childish. It self-destructive. It’s stupid.”
I was treated poorly, and that makes me childish, self-destructive and stupid. Got it.
” Which is why I said you want the acceptance of the proposal to be the same as the vow; and you don’t believe in divorce.
That makes you a selfish asshole.”
Yes, I am the selfish asshole in this saga. We can agree that it was better for it to end when it did and not after we had gotten married. But I am the selfish asshole in this scenario because…I didn’t get hateful and spiteful with her? I accepted her decision and let her go? Unlike her, I am the one whose words matched his deeds. I am the one who could communicate his needs, concerns and feelings. I am the one who didn’t abandon my putative fiance in the middle of a family crisis , while she never communicated anything other than wanting to move forward. That I might not appreciate how she handled the whole thing, even though I left her alone and abided by her decision, that makes me a selfish asshole and her a courageous and brave soul, according to you? And when MRAs and PUAs and MGOTWs make the argument that society is conditioned to give women a pass for bad behavior, this argument shouldn’t resonate with me because here you are arguing that she is courageous and brave for how she handled the whole thing. Really? You could argue “Hey, she pulled the plug before she hurt you even worse,” but you want to paint her as having the heart of a Lion?
*sigh* I don’t think this one’s ever going to break. We’re gonna have to buy our own candy today.