A Voice for Men fights the rising tide of loose vaginas

Women: Always trying to kick a man’s pickle

Over on A Voice for Men, headquarters of the Greatest Super Awesome Human Rights Movement of the New Millennium, the regulars are troubled by those who make jokes and other unkind remarks about small penises, noting that this sort of body-shaming can wound the self-esteem of its targets and “has fostered a growing penis enlargement industry praying [sic] on young mens distorted perceptions of normality and worth.”

As a result, the AVFM regulars have vowed to set a higher standard of behavior for themselves, and not resort to easy body-shaming when arguing with, or talking about, women.

Ah, just kidding. They tried to see who could come up with the worst way to tell a woman she has a giant vagina.

Here are a few of the, er, standout comments from the discussion.

All these wonderful contributions inspired Kimski to suggest that AVFMenners should collect them together in a book titled “A 100 Ways To Fuck Their Shit Up.”

Gordius Knot expressed his distress that so many women seem to be ok with having cavernous “man-holes”:

Doc, meanwhile, offered some dating advice for men afraid of big vaginas:

Dr. F, meanwhile, offered these very confusing, er, observations:

If any of that makes sense to you, please let me know exactly what he’s on about here.

But, hey, at least the manly men at AVFM never resort to making disparaging remarks about the masculinity of other men, right? Oh, wait. (Then wait some more.)

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on November 19, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, creepy, disgusting women, douchebaggery, girl germs, hypocrisy, I'm totally being sarcastic, manginas, men who should not ever be with women ever, misandry, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, penises, playing the victim, shaming tactics, vaginas. Bookmark the permalink. 138 Comments.

  1. Well, it’s a museum, so they want to have the original signs.

  2. If I ever happen to come upon a “protest” I’ll steal one for them.

  3. RE: Katz

    I misread your statement as “they want to have the original sins.”

  4. I’d rather have the sins than the signs!

  5. well here’s to hoping they never go near a vagina again to save themselves some anxiety as well as some poor woman a bad experience with a jerk

  6. So, Dr. F’s comment…has anyone figured out WTF he’s on about, or at least WTF he was on when he wrote that?

  7. Their lack of knowledge on all things vagina does not surprise me.

  8. Oh sure. He is outraged that he can’t get laid because women are more interested in wealthy wallets expensive rugs a place on the beach and in the mountains partners than they are big dicks.

  9. The other standard MRA rant.

  10. If we had the “there is such a thing as too big” conversation do you think it would blow their minds?

  11. Hmmm, I wonder whether feminists or MRAs are more likely to shame people based on their bodies?

    Thought so.

  12. And now, another installment of Shaenon Tries To Explain Manboobz to Her Husband!

    Me: So now the MRA sites are very concerned about small penis jokes. Guess how they’re dealing with this issue.

    Andrew: Putting pants on?

    Me: No.

    Andrew: Not sending people any more photos of their–

    Me: Look, they’re not showing anyone their penises!

    Andrew: Oh. Then they’re probably complaining that vaginas are too big.

    Me: Now you’re thinking like an MRA. They’re trading big-vagina insults.

    Andrew: For in case they ever get near a vagina?

    Me: Don’t virgin-shame, Andrew.

  13. Shaenon Tries To Explain Manboobz to Her Husband!

    One of the few reality TV shows I would actually watch. :D

  14. If we had the “there is such a thing as too big” conversation do you think it would blow their minds?

    Almost certainly, seeing as it would entail discussing individual women not only experiencing sexual pleasure but having individual preferences while they do so, and MRAs know perfectly well that all women share a hivemind and do not actually enjoy sex, but merely engage in it as a means to steal men’s money/sperm/souls/precious bodily fluids.

  15. Also, by failing to show the most respect to the largest penis women are going against the law of nature and disrespecting men, or some shit like that.

  16. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    And when women have the Mature Orgasm it’s only ever from PiV sex.

    If, of course, female orgasms exist at all. There does seem to be some dispute among MRAs on that one, though how they can argue with the all-knowing DoctorGeneralCardinalLawyerPresidentPell on that one I don’t know.

  17. WTF is a flockartie rug?

  18. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    No idea – does it refer to Flock Art, the stuff from the 70s?

  19. *going to bed, up far too late trying to comprehend the incomprehensible weirdness of the amazing ladyparts that stay tight with one partner but expand massively with more than one*

    Flockartie rug?

    *going to bed now. MRAs make tiny brain hurt.*

    Flockartie rug?

  20. Very tight vaginas are usually due to people who are not aroused. Anyone who thinks that a woman should be so “tight” that she is in pain during sex (and obviously such people never think of lube or actually arousing their partners), is gravely messed up when it comes to sexual stuff in general.

    I’ve had two babies. The vagina is not a “hole”- it is more like a shutter in a camera- the muscles can contract and widen when needed. Kegals certainly can help, but it’s not a for sure thing. But even if you have a vagina that is “loose”, perhaps that is because bodies are all different, and not everything sexual needs to revolve around penis-in-vagina sex. People with a healthy sexual relationship do not necessarily lose the ability to enjoy one another just because they can’t have “traditional” heterosexual sex.

  21. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    The vagina is not a “hole”- it is more like a shutter in a camera- the muscles can contract and widen when needed.

    I am now never going to be able to look at that holiday-snap-where-the-shutter-didn’t-quite-open the same way again …

  22. <Oh hey! Dave! Did you watch the AVfM video challenging a prominent feminist to a formal debate? Of course you did! Here’s your chance! Show those tiny-penis-bearing, basement-dwelling, MISOGYNIST! cretins how a real man respects women! Go Dave Go!

    Yeah and then when no one accepts, MRAs will cry “See, they can’t argue with our logic!” right?

    You are nothing but miserable little shits who can;t even bother to hide your desire to kill and rape women. You are filth.

  23. He means a flokarti rug http://www.ikea.com/aa/en/catalog/products/70171994/ I bet he’s got some Dunning–Kruger effect going on.

    Lol at him calling his penis a wee-wee.

    And I wonder if it would blow his mind that I would much rather *earn* 45k+ and date an unemployed guy than date a 45k+ guy and have no money of my own.

  24. Dr. F – a translation


    See, now I like this, and it begs for other analogies. You know, wallets, dicks, long tall cars and rich expanses of rolling green fields.

    This is similar to other weird claims we’re always making, like how women only like wallets, dicks, cars and nature.

    Oww yum. It all tumbles down from the bountiful plump heavens that just spill their goodness downwards. Down to you Princess Mam.

    Women get given money by the government, which they think they deserve.

    Down comes the twit on a white horse to carry you away and prong you on a fluffy white Flockartie rug before a great “roaring fire”. After that, you can have a walk on the beach with your post-coital slitty eyed pasty face and talk about how in five years you are going to live in the mountains.

    Standard white-night/beta/mangina rant. How DARE those bitches want to be with men who act like they’re human and share their interests?

    Bugger all the other jerks who fly under the 45k a year salary eh? Big wee-wee is ok but “big all the rest” is what I am gunning for really. I’ll sort it out later just like god did with the crusades.

    But what women REALLY want is a man with a big wallet, because hypergamy and shit. Also they’re bitches.

    Pardon, I went off on a tangent a bit. Everything swirled around and it all went into a splatter-gun and made a strange but compelling pizza. I am good now.

    It’s like reading A Clockwork Orange, or Trainspotting. Once you memorise the lingo and break up the paragraphs, it’s a lot easier.

  25. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Thanks for that, Kim! I hope freitag comes back online to see what the heck it is. Looks like a nice rug … and wtf is that Dr F twit so upset about the idea of sex on a rug in front of a fire for? ‘Cause that isn’t actually something that’s limited to uber-rich blokes. And isn’t it weird that he describes it as “being pronged” – like MRAs are interested in anything but shoving it in and coming. Perhaps what really frightens him is the idea of a couple making love on a rug. Or anywhere else.

  26. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Ninja’d! :D

  27. @ Kitteh

    I thought the “pronged” bit was gibberish, but now I’m left with the image of PIV sex with a pronged penis – like a trident – and I can’t stop laughing.

    But on a general note, once again MRAs are their own worst enemy.

  28. I thought the “pronged” bit was gibberish, but now I’m left with the image of PIV sex with a pronged penis – like a trident – and I can’t stop laughing.

    If I believed in any deity I’d have to conclude that a trickster god who likes to mess with us is the only way to explain that such a penis actually exists: in the echidna.

  29. The walls of the vagina aren’t made of rubber bands. They’re made of muscle. Saying that lots of sex will loosen them up is as stupid as saying that doing lots of biceps curls would make your biceps go flabby.

    But regarding this:

    I have a suspicion that MRAs are ignorant of the fact that tiny penis remarks have nothing to do with the body part and everything to do with the behavior of the d00d under discussion. Kinda like that whole city boy with the monster truck dealio.

    Sure, people do make small dick jokes based on men’s behaviour rather than how bulgy their pants look. Still, small dick jokes imply that having a small one is BAD and PATHETIC. So I really don’t think these kind of jokes are okay.

    There’s a Swedish feminist who’s blog I used to follow who once posted that small-penis-shaming language is exactly as bad as fat-shaming-language; it makes people hate their bodies, think nobody’s ever gonna want to have sex with them etc. (She used to work as a model while being severely bulimic, and writes a lot about body image issues.) The weird thing was that lots of women commented that it’s not the same thing at all, because men are often told that size doesn’t matter, and therefore no man has reason to be ashamed of his small penis regardless of how many small-penis-jokes people make. And that’s such a terribly stupid reply. Yep, lots of people say that size doesn’t matter, just like lots of people say that weight doesn’t matter. These messages don’t magically cancel out the contrary messages of “fat is ugly and unattractive” and “small penises are bad for sex and pathetic” that drowns us from everywhere.

  30. “You have a huge vagina”

    Aw, isn’t it CUUUUTE? It looks just like a little baby Jesus


  31. I like how “lots of sex equals loose vaginas” only applies to “sex one time with a hundred different penises” and not “sex one hundred times with only one penis”.

    Like seriously, spend some time with actual vaginas before you make commentary.

    I want to know how that works, too. Maybe their reasoning is like “If she’s having sex with me every day, that’s okay and the penis won’t ruin her. But if she has sex with other guys, then their penises will ruin her”. Then again, these are the same kinds of guys that will have sex with a woman, and then slut shame her for it right afterwards. “You had sex with me? Ew, you slut! Wait, why won’t you have sex with me again?”

  32. I recall Obscurus Lupa making a small penis remark in the ‘Hercules in New York’ review, but that was to make Film Brain feel better about not being as muscular as the guys in the film. Don’t recall the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of, “Don’t worry. All that steroid use probably gives them tiny penises.”

    That brings up another caveat. Do these guys think it’s all right for women to make tiny dick jokes if they’re doing it to make a guy nearby feel better about himself? Like telling a boyfriend that his rival at work is “compensating for something” after a bad day. Are such jokes acceptable in the service of male egos?

  33. Yuyuko Saigyouji

    Reading the first paragraph: Well, they are right for once, only idiots care that much about penis sizes and comments about that are stupid as insults…

    Reading the second paragraph: Oh no, something seems wrong and completely unfitting with this…

    Reading the third paragraph: Well, of course…

  34. Ah, now I know what a Flockiarte rug is. Er, big deal?

    As to the whole big/small dick thing; most of us got over it in high school gym class. Ya got what ya got. But the whole body-shaming thing is universal I think. “You’re fat. You’re skinny. You’re short. You’re a scarecrow. Fattyfatfat. Stringbean. Pencilneck/pencildick.” Whatever, if you’re not a paragon of fillintheblank, you’re inadequate.

    Take a healthy dose of fuckitall and move on.

    (For the record, my high school nickname was Ichabod.)

  35. Only slightly on topic, but many years ago I saw a comedian, I *think* it was Jenny Eclair, doing stand-up and she had a sketch about, “how come you always hear guys going on about how massive their dicks are, but you never hear women bragging about the size of their vaginas? Like, ‘I am woman, hear me roar!'” *holds microphone to crotch and tilts hand across mouth to fake ventriloquism* “‘RARRRRRHH!'”
    (I thought it was funny, but I’m easily amused).

    Actually, I find witty comebacks to insults much more amusing than witty (or ‘witty’) insults, but I never have the brass neck to use them in real life, so if the opportunity arises:

    person: beshemoth, you have a huge vagina!

    me: yes! Do not steal my seat, for if I do not notice, I might sit down on you and swallow you whole!… And then, not notice!

    Eh. I should be thankful I don’t have the brass neck. Anyone got anything better?

  36. Honestly, I can’t imagine any comeback more devastating than a furrowed brow and a slight head tilt.

  37. My biggest question… Why does that pickle photo even exist?

    (Also, I think small penises are hot.)

  38. @katz: excellent advice for people who aren’t me, alas, I tried it in the mirror there and I look like Jasper Carrot.

  39. person: beshemoth, you have a huge vagina!

    me: yes! Do not steal my seat, for if I do not notice, I might sit down on you and swallow you whole!… And then, not notice!

    Like this?

  40. Finally, someone in the manosphere realizes that evolutionary psychology doesn’t really explain everything:

    If humans were motivated purely by “hard wired instincts” like animals than I’d agree 100% But obviously that is not true. Humans live a conflicted life where biological impulses pulls you one way but social conditioning pulls the other. It’s like a constant tug of war.

    I mean, not perfect, but you could have a conversation with this guy, maybe. [cloudiah reads further.]

    It’s my observation the lower classes are more ruled by their hard wired instinct. Basically they live like animals. It is the middle class and especially the upper middle class that are forced to live a life where social conditioning is so omnipresent it actually over powers biological impulses…..most of the time.

    [cloudiah gently rests head on desk, resisting urge to give herself a concussion.]

  41. I would think that for women, it would be somewhat useful to know the depth of the vagina instead of the width (because the width of the vagina can accomodate anything from a penis to a baby’s cranium as it passes down the birth canal during childbirth). I know that I have a “short” vagina, myself- I can’t use long toys all the way in without cervical pain. Most women have an average vaginal depth of about 4 inches. Obviously, this is “average”- but the “average” penis length is about 4 inches as well. Which means that on “average” you can find someone who is about compatible, but that’s not always a given thing.

    Which is why I believe that if I were ever single again, I’d absolutely have to make sure that my spouse had compatible sexual equipment for the sex we were having and/or enjoyed the same sort of sexual play as I did.

    Really, anyone who engages in body shaming of any sort (from size of genitals to size of body) is not someone I’d want to have sex with in the first place.

  42. “But there was one thing he had that you haven’t got.”

    “What’s that?”


    I’m sorry, it was playing in my head ALL DAY.

  43. ahahah well played, LBT.

  44. (Also, I think small penises are hot.)

    You spartan!

  45. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    @cloudiah – don’t you love the way he manages to combine classism (oh, those bestial lower orders!) with an implicit complaint that the middle and upper classes are so cruelly expected to, you know, not be bestial?

    Lower classes not being Civilised = bad

    Upper classes being Civilised = bad

    Which, I suspect boils down to the usual MRM whine that he should be allowed to fuck whoever he wants, whenever he wants, but nobody else should.

  46. The penis enlargement industry has been around since at LEAST the 1800s, and probably since medicine has been a thing. I have a fascination for old medical devices and patent medicines, and one of the books I own on the subject shows a print ad for a penis pump from sometime in the late 19th century. The text notes they were rare because they had glass tubes, and were prone to shattering under vaccuum. Scary when you consider this was before safety glass was invented.

  47. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    That’d make a great curse for using on MRAs here … may your pump tube shatter.

  48. No idea why I expected them to understand female anatomy and it’s response to arousal any more than what they’ve displayed in these comments. I should really set the bar lower shouldn’t I?

  49. I hate the whole women with big vagina thing. I also hate the fascination with virgins. I hate many things.
    Men can have lots of sex, but women can’t applies to both of those statements.

  50. This is slightly off-topic, but I just noticed that Rori’s annual Top 100 Sex Blogs list featured a “Take the red pill” -blog, http://marriedmansexlife.com/take-the-red-pill/ It was 25th! It is not as obviously bad as the manosphere blogs usually featured here, but it’s just a red pill in nicer package. Are the manosphere ideas going mainstream? Oh horrors.
    I thought of the sex blogger community as a fairly sex-positive one, and Rori’s list seems to be fairly big deal. I don’t know what is going on…

  51. You vastly misrepresent the article and then post a bunch of comments, which are matched in their eloquence or relevance by most of the comments on this website (see: not the most PC, nice, or thought-out words that humans have ever written.). Anyway, just wanted you to know that someone saw through what you did.

  52. Oh Alan, you silly boy…. Tell us how it was misrepresented? Explain to us how your penetrating wisdom saw though it.

    Enlighten us, rather than just sticking out your tongue and saying, “you’re WRONG!”

    Just wanted you to know that someone saw through what you did.

  53. Alan, just wanted you to know that you are not the rhetorical giant you seem to think you are.

  54. If we had the “there is such a thing as too big” conversation do you think it would blow their minds?

    A friend of mine once told me about a date that was about to end in sex, then promptly didn’t once pants hit the floor and she got a look at him. “Like a Coke can” she said. And we both nodded sympathetically.

  55. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Bagelsan – yeah, same thing happened to a friend of mine. One look at him and she said, “Don’t think you’re getting anywhere near me with that!”

    I’ve always preferred the “It’s not what you’ve got, it’s what you do with it” theory. :)

  56. I’ve done the hooking up with a guy with Penis of Unusual Size thing. Never again.

  57. I have a friend who suffers from being too long. He’s had several women who say, “That’s not going into me.”

  58. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Gawd, now I have an image of that bloke looking like a Rodent of Unusual Size (which would probably be a good reason all on its own never to have anything to do with him … )

  59. Gawd, now I have an image of that bloke looking like a Rodent of Unusual Size

    And now that mental image is in my head. XD

    Still, I feel like the “too big” thing is only really a problem if the penis-haver insists that sex = PIV (or alternate orifice of choice) sex, and only that will do… Anyway, I’ve always been a believer in the principle that people have the equipment they have, and with mutual attraction, good will, and creativity you can usually make things work.

  60. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Very good point about orifice-only sex, Cloudiah. PIV was certainly the sex in question with my friend, and I know for me (not that the question will ever arise)* PIO would be the stumbling block. But yeah, there are ways and ways.

    *no pun intended! :P

  61. for make vagina tight try to use myotaut serum which is help you to make your vagina tight naturally.

  62. The only place I like spam is in Monty Python skits.

  63. For make vagina padlock itself shut post sex related spam with avatar taken from children’s program.

  64. Did I just read “for make vagina tight”?

  65. So, I just googled Myotaut and it’s a product that claims to shrink tissue and, in doing so, tighten the vagina and/or asshole and reduce a woman’s external genitals. Because healthy female genitalia need fixing?

    I can think of a few ways this product causes tissue shrinkage. None are good. Ew.

  66. Also, what about transference? If there’s still some on the woman’s bits and it ends up on the man’s bits too does he end up with a teeny weenie?

    Of course I’m guessing they’re both more likely to end up in the ER, so.

  67. The answer to any man who wants a woman to tighten her vagina with this stuff: You have to use it first.

  68. M. the Social Justice Ranger

    I can think of a few ways this product causes tissue shrinkage. None are good. Ew.

    I wouldn’t worry. Ten bucks says it works by not actually doing anything at all.

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