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Posted on October 12, 2012, in BINGO!, misogyny, MRA and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 116 Comments.

  1. Diogenes The Cynic

    Its funny how some people on here are likes sharks in the water waiting for a drop of blood. I don’t think what I said was particularly controversial. I just didn’t express it in the orthodoxy of some on this site.

    Now, Ugh, I think one of my favorite phrases is playing out here. “We see the world for the way we are.”

    If we watched the same guy cluelessly hitting on a girl who wasn’t interested, you would probably interpret it as creepy, and threatening, and I would see it as socially clueless.

    Now Kitty, it isn’t an excuse to be whiny or entitled, but it can make a person seem creepy.

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to pull away some guy to tell him the girl he’s talking to isn’t interested in him. Or how many times I’ve been around a female friend, saw a mouth-breather heading her way, and just wandered off just to laugh hysterically at her getting hit on as she mouthed the words “fuck you fuck you fuck you” to me.

  2. Creative Writing Student

    How to lose a ‘female friend’ in ten minutes.

    Step One:

    Or how many times I’ve been around a female friend, saw a mouth-breather heading her way, and just wandered off just to laugh hysterically at her getting hit on as she mouthed the words “fuck you fuck you fuck you” to me.

  3. We know that you see the world the way you are, Diogynes, which is why your worldview is so limited. Luckily not everyone shares that problem, but since you’re aware of it in yourself it really is something you should work on.

  4. If we watched the same guy cluelessly hitting on a girl who wasn’t interested, you would probably interpret it as creepy, and threatening, and I would see it as socially clueless.

    First of all, I’ve seen many men hit on women who weren’t interested. I’ve even been one of them. It’s not creepy unless they do it in a creepy way. There are plenty of non-creepy ways to hit on someone. But let’s assume they were doing it in a creepy way..

    Hitting on in a creepy way and not realising: probably clueless.

    Hitting on, being told they are being creepy: can no longer claim to be clueless.

    Exploding with rage and indignation at someone giving them friendly advice about how not to be creepy: extra, extra creepy and threatening with no excuse.

  5. If we watched the same guy cluelessly hitting on a girl who wasn’t interested, you would probably interpret it as creepy, and threatening, and I would see it as socially clueless.

    Way to shift the goalposts there. Let’s talk about what we were actually talking about.

    We’re talking about a massive reaction of anger at a woman for daring to say that she felt threatened by a guy asking her to come into his hotel room while alone in a confined space at 4 AM.

    Are you saying that people had a right to be angry at Watson for speaking up or not? If so, would you say that it’s wrong to speak up about theft because some people might cluelessly interpret private property differently?

  6. Haven’t we been through the “creepy men just have Asperger’s and that makes it okay for them to be creepy” bullshit before?

    I have Asperger’s. That doesn’t make it okay for me to be a creep. End of story.

  7. @Diogenes as Lauralot pointed out, the Aspie Defense is one we’ve all heard before. I know you thought you were dropping some truth bomb none of us had considered, but in reality this argument gets brought up pretty much every time women try to talk about inappropriate behavior from men, and those of us who hang out in feminist spaces have already seen it discussed and debated a million times. Feel free to check out those discussions and save us the trouble of having to explain, yet again, why that argument doesn’t hold up.

  8. @ugh
    A closer analogy is probably someone coming into your backyard. If you invite them in, all fine and dandy. During the day, someone might come in by being clueless about property boundaries. At 4am, you’re completely justified being uncomfortable or frightened that someone is there.

  9. Its funny how some people on here are likes sharks in the water waiting for a drop of blood.

    Dude, did you read the label on the tin? *points up* This is a forum where we mock misogynists for our own amusement. We are, in fact, waiting for people like you to come here and show their asses, so that we can laugh at them.

  10. Clearly he has a special computer that changes “mock” into “cuddle” in order to make the internet feel more cosy.

  11. Creative Writing Student

    Cuddling misogyny? Eww!

    *scrubs with bleach*

    Oh god, the stink isn’t coming off! Although my skin is! Oh god!

  12. Or how many times I’ve been around a female friend, saw a mouth-breather heading her way, and just wandered off just to laugh hysterically at her getting hit on as she mouthed the words “fuck you fuck you fuck you” to me.

    shitthatneverhappened.txt

  13. What if we changed “misogyny” to “kitten”, and “mock” to “cuddle”?

  14. “Cuddling virtual kittens” is already this blog’s secondary function, so why not?

  15. Diogenes the Naïf: If we watched the same guy cluelessly hitting on a girl who wasn’t interested, you would probably interpret it as creepy, and threatening, and I would see it as socially clueless.

    Let me be the one to gladly shatter your worldview†

    One instance? Clueless.

    Repeated instances, with different women, clueless.

    Dogged pursuit of one (or just a few women)… creepy.

    Continuing the behaviors described as clueless, after people explain why they might be seen as creepy… not clueless. Careless of other peoples’ feelings, and creepy.

    I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to pull away some guy to tell him the girl he’s talking to isn’t interested in him. Or how many times I’ve been around a female friend, saw a mouth-breather heading her way, and just wandered off just to laugh hysterically at her getting hit on as she mouthed the words “fuck you fuck you fuck you” to me.

    Not creepy, but dickish in the extreme, and a piss-poor way to be a friend.

    † OK, I admit it, I am not so young and naive as to think facts are really going to persuade you, but a guy can hope.

  16. Diogenes the Naïf: It’s not that “we see the world the way we are”* it’s that:

    1: You presume to tell us what the “truth” is.
    2: You tell us we have no clue about our personal experience.
    3: You admit you have neither personal experience, nor have you bothered to do the most trivial of research.
    4: You still insist that we are wrong, and we ought to give credence to your ignorant maunderings.

    That, my little chickadee, is something which has to be kept in mind. If we let it go by without mention than anyone who didn’t know what a fool you are might be willing to take your mendacious blather as that of a reasonable person.

    You have earned that level of response, just as Meller has earned the steady repetition of his comment that murdered women ask for it.

    Of course worldview isn’t the real subject here, and neither are you (though you may get a chunk of topic drift onto your intellectual and moral failings). The topic here is that TAA has decided that not only should he not give a damn about someone who was driven to suicide by a stalking bully; and the culture which made it possible, but that he needs to bully the people who are offended by that.

    He’s also bullying her friends and relatives by saying it’s the Amanda’s fault she was driven to suicide. That she wasn’t “tough” enough.

    We can add your ignoring that, to whine about how all the people here who are calling you on your bullshit to the aforementioned list of moral failings.

    *and if this is what you really believe, why do you bother to speak to anyone?

  17. Sorry, I made a mistake. I lost track of which thread I was in. You aren’t trying to derail from TAA.

    All I said about him stands, but what I said about you ignoring it doesn’t apply. Mea Culpa.

  18. If we watched the same guy cluelessly hitting on a girl who wasn’t interested, you would probably interpret it as creepy, and threatening, and I would see it as socially clueless.

    Pecunium addressed this very well, but I also want to point out that these aren’t mutually exclusive. A clueless guy with good intentions could still come off as creepy and threatening.

  19. I’d also like to point out that the guy who sexually harassed me throughout my senior year of high school was the class clown and a hell of a lot more socially talented than I am. (I’m not on the spectrum, but I am introverted and not particularly good with people.) It made it really hard for me to figure out how to respond. Where is the love for all the socially awkward women who are made uncomfortable by creepy guys overstepping their boundaries, hmmm?

  20. I always wonder about this when the oh but what about the poor socially awkward guys whine comes up. What about socially awkward women? It’s hard enough to navigate aggressive propositions, sneaky manipulation, and general sex-related assholery if you’re a woman with excellent social skills. How much harder must it be for women without those skills? The closest example I have at hand is a friend who’s Aspie, and in my observation her social awkwardness both makes her a target and makes it extra hard for her to deal with being targeted.

  21. NightShadeQueen

    [whoops, wrong email address. Please delete the copy of this in moderation?]

    Additionally, it’s not like not being a creep is a difficult thing, social-skills speaking.

    If you’re not getting a clear “yes”, back the fuck away.

    I’m pretty shitty at social skills but even I can get that.

  22. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Diogenes the Creep: it doesn’t matter a damn whether YOU think someone’s a perfectly innocent oh-poor-thing-so-awkward person. What matters is the feelings of the person they’re hitting on. You’re not the one being subjected to something that could go all the way from mildly annoying and unwelcome to seriously frightening and possibly triggering. So shut the fuck up about it being something that you find amusing. If that ever happened at all, you’re a shit of a “friend” and if it didn’t, you’re making up pathetic fantasies to support the idea that women exist for men to hit on, and hey, you wouldn’t even help a so-called friend (if you actually think of women as friends, which your MRM defences make me doubt) if it meant interfering with some dude’s opportunity to hit on her.

    Go fuck yourself, you little loser.

  23. Diogenes The Cynic

    @Ugh, we were talking about that?

    If its the event I think it is then yeah, I can see her point.

    I think its just harder for me, as a guy to think of other guys as threatening than women would.

    @Nepenthe

    I am not the misogyinist you are looking for. I’m pretty consistantly egalitarian.

    Manboobz: Misogyny, we mock it. And Diogenes The Cynic.

  24. Sir Bodsworth Rugglesby III

    Dude, you’re not even close to the top of the list of trolls we love mocking. In fact, I get the impression that people go easy on you because you give the impression of being a teenager.

  25. I’m pretty consistantly egalitarian.

    lol

  26. Diogenes The Cynic

    @hellkell

    Why do you doubt every story from my personal life? Its as if….you can only see the world for the way you are, and if people act differently than you’re used to, you have trouble reconciling it to your reality.

    @pecunium

    Didn’t you notice where I would take these guys aside? Eventually.
    I remember this one time one of my friends had a creeper texting her after a single date. He was getting angrier and angrier at her. I asked her where she found him. Online. After mocking her for using a dating site, we start mocking the dude together. She forwards me a few of his texts, and I start responding to them with my phone. I think he got the point, but was slow to get it.

    Not the most dickish move out there. One of my friends has a habit I don’t like much. When we get rip-roaring drunk, he picks up my rifle, asks me if its loaded, then dry-fires it at my head. I always had it unloaded before, but now I detach the bolt on it too.

    If you want, I’ll address your second post.

  27. Diogenes The Cynic

    “Pecunium addressed this very well, but I also want to point out that these aren’t mutually exclusive. A clueless guy with good intentions could still come off as creepy and threatening.” -emilygoddess

    I’ll eventually learn to quote. This will do for now.

    Hence my saying that we view the world for the way we are. Ever hear about Schrodinger’s Rapist? A woman wrote an essay on how easily she could be intimidated by any given guy. It was pretty eye-opening for me. I’m not used to viewing other guys as threatening, so I don’t interpret them that way. The average woman is smaller than the average guy, so I can, to an extent, see how a guy could be threatening to a woman.

  28. I think its just harder for me, as a guy to think of other guys as threatening than women would.

    Dude, for the eleventy billionth time, your inability to wrap your head around other people’s perspectives is your problem. Go away and work on that before making any more generalized statements.

  29. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    It took reading Schrodinger’s Rapist to get the idea into your head that most men are stronger than most women? What the fuck have you been doing, sleepwalking all your life?

    And that post is about so much more than the mere matter of strength and potential threat. Being treated as public property, men ignoring fear or hostility or simple indifference (and pretending they can’t read body language) because they don’t like the message, the whole attitude of being owed attention by women … gods, there’s more than I can summarise. READ THE COMMENTS again and go think about them, ferchrissakes.

  30. Diogenes The Cynic

    The Kitteh!

    Not stronger. Intimidating. I’ve stared down felons, pet a shark (not my brightest moment), faced down a bear charge, etc. I don’t intimidate easily, so its difficult to put myself in the frame of reference to a person that does. What with everyone seeing the world for the way they are, and all. It may be a defect in the English language, that just “knowing” doesn’t explain anything. In French I’d say I can connais something, but not sais it because I’m not a woman. You also could connais what its like to be a man, but not sais it.

    Being treated like public property? How so? Men treat you as if they’re owed your attention? Hmmmm. If I could experience what it was like to be a woman for a day, I might be able to understand. The closest I have though is asking you to explain it to me. Would you please?

    Post Script: There is one thing that does terrify me; skunks. They’re cute as hell, but can ruin your week. All the clothes you’re wearing, etc. I’ve broken the 100m dash record more than once getting away from one scampering towards me.

    Post post script: please don’t call me a creep. Thats uncalled for.

  31. @Diogenes

    We were. Your first comment on this thread was in response to wordsp1nner’s “But you know, telling guys not to hit on women at 4 am in an elevator is just so much worse. Free speech, man! (Or at least free speech for men.)”

    Also, it’s not just that men are on average larger than women. Depending on the study you read, between 6% and 12% of men will admit to having committed rape in an anonymous survey.

    So, something to think about when you’re laughing about letting dudes creep on your friends:somewhere between one in twenty and one in ten of them have raped somebody.

    You’re an ableist sexist who thinks that being opposed to ableism and sexism is an “orthodoxy.” You lost the right to ask for civility on this thread a long time ago.

  32. The closest I have though is asking you to explain it to me. Would you please?

    This blog is for mocking misogyny, not for educating people too lazy to read the copious amounts written on the subject already.

    Go. Google. Learn.

  33. One of my friends has a habit I don’t like much. When we get rip-roaring drunk, he picks up my rifle, asks me if its loaded, then dry-fires it at my head. I always had it unloaded before, but now I detach the bolt on it too.

    Stop being friends with this person right now, or at least tell him not to do that anymore. Never point a gun at someone unless you want to shoot them, NEVER! Far too many people die that way.

  34. Why do you doubt every story from my personal life? Its as if….you can only see the world for the way you are, and if people act differently than you’re used to, you have trouble reconciling it to your reality.

    Haha, nice try, kid. There’s a simpler, more elegant explanation as to why I don’t believe you about your richly storied existence. You’re a troll. Trolls lie.

    Oh, stop with the pleas for education. No one here owes you what you’re too lazy and privileged to find on your own.

  35. I am not the misogyinist you are looking for. I’m pretty consistantly egalitarian.

    Then you’re a dumbass wandering through the woods during hunting season while wearing a deer suit. As a Northern Midwesterner, I feel no sympathy for people dumb enough to do that.

  36. Also, you might have an easier time seeing the world from other points of view if you, you know, did some investigating about those points of view instead of immersing yourself in the perspectives of wealthy, white, mostly dead dudes. I’m pretty sure we talked about this earlier; shoulda known it wouldn’t take.

  37. Wow, that’s two really stupid gun-related comments so far from Diogenes (on two different posts). I’m not even a gun owner (because, you know, British), and even I wince every time someone breaks out the irresponsible gun owner stereotypes.

  38. Diogenes the Naïf: I think its just harder for me, as a guy to think of other guys as threatening than women would.

    Ding, ding, ding.

    But you insist that your idea of what is threatening/creepy is the one they should use.

    I’m pretty consistantly egalitarian.

    News to me. You must do that elsewhere.

    Not the most dickish move out there. One of my friends has a habit I don’t like much. When we get rip-roaring drunk, he picks up my rifle, asks me if its loaded, then dry-fires it at my head. I always had it unloaded before, but now I detach the bolt on it too.

    So… tell me why you leave rifles lying about when you are getting drunk?

    Tell me why you didn’t kick the shit out of him for threatening you (see other comments by someone in the bus-driver thread… some dude who thinks he’s a cynic).

    Tell me how this is the same as laughing at a friend whom you are abandoning to the attentions of someone she doesn’t like?

    You made fun of someone for using a on online dating site. Also, I’m not seeing where you are “taking these guys aside” (even if it is, “eventually”). I’m sure not seeing it in the post I was responding to. If you want me to give you credit for being a mensch, you have to give me menschlich, not schmucky, examples of your behavior.

    If you want, I’ll address your second post.

    Oohhh really?

    Like really address it? I’m so honored. This will be one of the rare times you have done that for anyone.

    I have to head to work, so I’ll address this vapid stupidity when I get home.

    Not stronger. Intimidating. I’ve stared down felons, pet a shark (not my brightest moment), faced down a bear charge, etc. I don’t intimidate easily, so its difficult to put myself in the frame of reference to a person that does.

    Suffice it to say… rigggghhht.

    And completely irrelevant to the issue of Schr&oml;dinger’s Rapist.

  39. @Diogenes thanks for mansplaining Schroedinger’s Rapist to me, I guess. It’s not like I already live it, being a woman and all.

    I’m not sure if you understood it, though, since you’re now making my argument for me. You claimed that “creepy” guys might just be socially awkward, and when I (and others) pointed out that we might still feel threatened by them, you turned around and…agreed with us? If you understand that, why were you bringing up social awkwardness in the first place?

  40. I should point out to mr. tougher-than-thou, that men, as a group, don’t intimidate me. Noticing when someone does something that is known to be the behaviour of a rapist (i.e. testing of boundaries and not taking no for an answer) and judging/punishing them for it is not the same thing as being intimidated. There is a difference between being cautious and being scared. (Not that I judge if someone is scared. Though I would wish that it wasn’t so)

    But you would know that if you actually understood the concept of Schrodinger’s Rapist.

  41. I’m home from work, and I’ve made dinner (pan-fried steelhead with homemade dill-mayonaise and sweet-potato chips), in the time of baking I’ve managed address the foolish comment of our dear Diogenes the Naïf.

    Not stronger. Intimidating. I’ve stared down felons, pet a shark (not my brightest moment), faced down a bear charge, etc. I don’t intimidate easily, so its difficult to put myself in the frame of reference to a person that does. What with everyone seeing the world for the way they are, and all. It may be a defect in the English language, that just “knowing” doesn’t explain anything. In French I’d say I can connais something, but not sais it because I’m not a woman. You also could connais what its like to be a man, but not sais it.

    The defect is that you don’t understand Schrödinger’s Rapist (that, or you choose to misunderstand it a-purpose. I shall be charitable and stipulate you are clueless, not mendacious).

    I don’t intimidate much at all. I grew up in the fringes of E. Los Angeles in the latter ‘70s/early ‘80s. Kids were killed at the corner of my elementary school. A bullet landed on the roof of my Scout Leaders house, while we were having a meeting. I boxed. I took judo. I practice aikido. I fence. I studied knife fighting with Marc MacYoung. I spent 16 years in the Army. I’ve been shot at, I’ve been shelled. I was in Iraq in April of 2003, just behind the Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA), and sometimes right up against the Forward Line Of Troops (FLOT). I’ve been homeless and I moved to New York City from East Palo Alto; where I had someone murdered for his winnings at a dice game about 50 meters from my front door.

    I’ve been “jumped”. I’ve been stalked. I’ve been clubbed with rocks. I’ve had people try to pull me from my bicycle. I’ve stared down dobermans who wanted to chase me on a skateboard and rottweilers who broke the leash. I’ve looked bulls in the eye, and ridden stallions.

    I’ve had life and death for people in the whims of the moment and 4 lbs of pressure on the trigger; once a former friend and sort of sometime housemate.

    You list of “accomplishments” doesn’t impress me much.

    Not because it’s a shabby list, but because you don’t understand shit about fighting, or about Schrödinger’s Rapist.

    Why do I say that? Because for all that I’m not intimidated by much of anyone, I see pretty much everyone I don’t know as Schrödinger’s Assailant. When I see a cop, I look to see what side they carry their weapon on; and I do it by checking where they carry their baton. I give the troops and airmen at the Penn Station the fisheye as I go by. I assess everyone I pass for threat.

    Why? Because they are. I know what it takes to win a fight; you, it seems, do not. If you did you’d not be so blithe. As I told Joe, in a previous discussion about fighting… what it takes to win a fight is simple.

    1: Be prepared.
    2: If at all possible, be the one who starts the fight.
    3: Be willing to kill your opponent.

    If you do all three of those, 9 times out of 10 you will win. If you do those, you will also (Thank God) almost certainly end up in jail.

    Being treated like public property? How so? Men treat you as if they’re owed your attention? Hmmmm. If I could experience what it was like to be a woman for a day, I might be able to understand. The closest I have though is asking you to explain it to me. Would you please?

    Why should anyone? When people have told you what they experience, you call them liars. We told you what we saw in the MRM, you said it was impossible to believe. All you had to do was follow the links, and you weren’t willing to do that. You are openly hostile to the subject, and expect us to believe that you will suddenly become intellectually (and argumentatively) honest.

    Forgive me if I don’t believe you.

  42. You forgot to add “Feminazi” as one of the Bingo blocks.

  43. The cards are generated randomly from a list of terms, and feminazi is on the list — try clicking the links in the text a couple times and I’m sure it’ll show up.

  44. I was inspired by this post to create Women Against Feminism Bingo. Enjoy!

  45. Now, this is the kind of necro’ing of old threads that I can get behind.

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