What do women want? Ask a dude. Ask an awesome dude.
Oh, ladies, you poor, deluded ladies, so unaware of the basic facts about yourselves. If only you had an objective source for information on the mystery that is you! Happily, a Men’s Rights Redditor by the name of nigglereddit has decided to throw a giant clue your way:
You may want to step back and take a look at the entire thread here, especially nigglereddit’s original post about the different ways he and his wife have responded to being new parents, in which he mocks his wife for what sounds very much like undiagnosed postpartum depression, blaming her misery not on brain chemistry or sleep deprivation or any of a zillion other things that tend to stress out new mothers but on all those terrible women’s magazines and books and TV shows she reads and/or watches.
Also, he pats himself on the back for being a totally cool and awesome dude who handles both his job and his duties as a father in a super awesome way — way better than his wife handles her new motherhood — because he’s a man, damnit, and totally able to see the world in an objective way.
Needless to day, this meaty slab of misogynist shitthatneverthappened got dozens up upvotes from the r/mensrights regulars.
Thanks to r/againstmensrights for pointing me to this terrible post.
EDITED TO ADD:
Speaking of which, the good folks at r/againstmensrights have assembled these handy guides to the shittiest comments in the shitty r/mensrights thread. A-one and a-two.
Posted on September 26, 2012, in antifeminism, douchebaggery, dozens of upvotes, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, reddit, self-congratulation, shit that never happened and tagged anti-feminism, antifeminism, child-rearing, men's rights, misogyny, MRA, mras, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 549 Comments.
Fembot: I would wager that there are far more men who have raped women roaming free, then there are men in prison for false accusations.
“it is better for ten guilty men to go free…”
This is not about striking a balance between the number of rapists who go free and the number of innocents who are incarcerated. This is about treating rape just like any other crime, with the exact same standard of evidence. Duke Lacrosse illustrated how many rape trials are carried out – the burden of proof was on the defendants, rather than the accuser.
I read somewhere that only one in three murderers are ever convicted, by the way. I just felt that was worth mentioning.
Now, to counteract all of these claims that the Men’s Rights Movement has done “nothing,” feminism has been around for over a century. The Men’s Rights Movement is still in its infancy and is still growing. This is not about what good the Men’s Rights Movement done, but what good it will do in the future. What David Futrelle and many other feminists are trying to do is to stymie the organization before it has a chance to take root. I don’t think that is a healthy way to approach new ideologies.
Sharon: I’m not against white folks hanging out. I’m not against them hanging out and talking about their heritage. I’ve had some good times at clan meetings, drinking whisky, listening to bagpipes, watching the caber-tossing.
But Klan meetings… I’m against them.
Sunshine Troll approves of everything on the list except for the threesomes part??! So it’s more “heartbreaking” that some women never marry than it is to be married to an asshole like this? If you’re around Mary, please explain to me why it’s better to be treated like shit than it is to be unmarried.
The only problem with this statement, and it’s a teensy-tiny one, is that it is complete bullshit. The burden of proof is no different between rape and any other crime, whether the accused is male or female.
Also the Men’s Rights Movement has been around since the beginning of time, you ass.
PosterformerlyknownasElizabethWhat more do MRAs what? (Rhetorical question.)
An apology from the feminists who proclaimed their indisputable guilt before a shred of evidence was found would be nice, but hope springs eternal.
Also, the accused men did not so much have their accuser discredited so much as no evidence was found which linked them to a rape. Now, if you or anyone else knows of any evidence that a rape actually occurred cited from a neutral source, I will gladly hear you out.
I’m not against women hanging out and talking about their problems. Women hanging out, and funnelling federal funds for their own privileges, such as NOW for instance…
The only problem with this statement, and it’s a teensy-tiny one, is that it is complete bullshit. The burden of proof is no different between rape and any other crime, whether the accused is male or female.
How so?
Also the Men’s Rights Movement has been around since the beginning of time, you ass.
So the Men’s Rights Movement sent male soldiers to die in foreign lands? You shouldn’t curse out people when they are being polite and civil, by the way.
Because of course the accuser is never a “neutral source” that a rape actually occurred, therefore ALL RAPE VICTIMS ARE INNOCENT.
Are you straining yourself moving those goalposts? I recommend stretching first, and maybe some liniment.
And don’t fucking tell me not to swear, you fucking idiot. :-)
Also, you fucking idiot (I enjoy fucking with people who don’t like swearing), you do realize that the burden of proof is on you for proving there’s a different burden of proof for rape as versus other crimes, right? Or are you a fucking idiot?
Oh shit, it turns out all you need to do to protect men’s rights is say you’re doing it, and then everyone that criticizes you is a big bad meanie who hates men? Word up, I’m definitely starting a Society For the Promotion of Kittens and Rainbows, no one will be able to criticize me for anything ever again.
cloudiah: And don’t fucking tell me not to swear, you fucking idiot. :-)
You can be as miserable and angry as you want to be, I just don’t think it’s beneficial for either of us. It might dissuade some people from a hateful ideology, however, so it may be beneficial to them.
If by “the men’s rights movement” you mean “men invested in and dedicated to a social structure which maintains an imbalance of power between men and women,” then, uh, yeah, those dudes have been responsible for, like, all the wars. The fact that you ding-dongs have come up with a fancy new name for yourselves doesn’t change the fact that the MRM is just the latest incarnation of reactionaries desperately clinging to millennia-old privilege.
“So the Men’s Rights Movement sent male soldiers to die in foreign lands?”
Don’t tell me you’re going to say this is women’s fault too.
Also, you fucking idiot (I enjoy fucking with people who don’t like swearing), you do realize that the burden of proof is on you for proving there’s a different burden of proof for rape as versus other crimes, right?
There is. It tends to rely more on the word of the accuser than impartial evidence, such as forensic or witness testimony. I cannot say the same for any other crime – if I were to claim my neighbor stole my TV, I would need a reasonably impartial witness for a conviction to occur.
Ooh, is this the part where we pretend that we’ve won the argument on the basis of fabricating emotions and motivations for our interlocutors? Let me try!
*ahem* ideologuereview, you sound pretty worked up about all this. Maybe you should take a break from the internet and try arguing again sometime when you aren’t so emotional; it’d help you approach things more rationally.
Wait… sunshinemary is fine with that list, except the threesomes… so she thinks a dude who cheats is ok? Got it.
@Game
So the man who had his guts spilled was actually more privileged than his wife in every conceivable way, right to the point that the blade or bullet entered his stomach? I find the claim that one group is universally and indisputably privileged over another to be naive and almost religious.
Colour me absolutely shocked that you don’t understand what the word “privileged” means.
Honestly, bro, take like five minutes out of your busy commenting-on-a-blog schedule to actually read some of the goddamn literature. Don’t just assume that when people say men qua are privileged over women qua women, it means feminists think all men are immortal god-emperors toying with a world of their devising.
P.S. You are not half as subtle as you think you are with your ridiculous little weasel words. C’mon, dude, just straight-up adding “in every conceivable way” is ham-fisted and obvious; you need to be sneaky if you want to get away with disingenuous obfuscation and gaslighting!
cloudiah: Also, you fucking idiot (I enjoy fucking with people who don’t like swearing)
Swearing is something you do because it’s part of who you are, like getting a tattoo or a piercing. Some people may disapprove of it, but you have to spend a lot more time with yourself than they do with you.
Oh golly, IR/PP, please don’t project your misery onto me. This is a hobby, and I enjoy swearing at trolls (in addition to hiking, cooking vegetarian meals, preserving old photos, playing with my cats, and walking the neighbor’s Jack Russell terrier). I’m sorry that you are miserable, but I am not.
You didn’t actually provide any proof that there’s a different standard of proof for rape; you just said that you assumed there was. I am sorry you don’t understand how to do this, and I am not sure how to explain it to you. Proof means something different than “I really, really believe that…” There often is forensic evidence in rape cases. (Why are so many rape kits untested? Is it that no one really cares about prosecuting rapists?) In any case, the burden of proof is exactly the same; if you think it isn’t, prove it. You fucking idiot. (I just threw that in to fuck with you, now that I know swearing bothers you.)
That’s okay, I like spending time with myself and with my friends. And I like swearing at you on the internet, since it give you such a hissy fit.
So your argument is that men aren’t privileged over women because of war? Pathetic.
IR has no clue what rhetorical means.
What a fucking surprise. Not.
“I find the claim that one group is universally and indisputably privileged over another to be naive and almost religious.”
That’s because admitting that you are actually privileged would contradict your woe is me victim mentality that so many MRAs carry.
Also, the funny thing is, I have no tattoos and no piercings — not even in my ears. But I do like swearing at trolls, idiots, and bad drivers. (Since I am a pedestrian in Los Angeles, I feel completely justified in the last; my gosh, there are lots of people willing to run down pedestrians while texting on their smart phones in this city.) Since feminists apparently don’t believe in the burden of proof, I am just going to accuse IR/PP of being the person who tried to run me down in the crosswalk last week. XD
One thing that does have a real effect on greater society is the Duke Lacrosse rape accusation. I’m sure those men would have been better off if the feminist movement never existed.
1. Nothing happened to the accused, so no, they would not be better off. The case never even went to trial.
2. There was no greater effect on society.
3. Even if the feminist movement never existed, everyone except MRAs would still think rape was bad.
You are a funny little man.
One small example of privilege. I love that it’s quantifiable now!
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/unofficial-prognosis/2012/09/23/study-shows-gender-bias-in-science-is-real-heres-why-it-matters/
IRFF is boring. Go away.
By the way, everybody, this is tone trolling.
The only problem with this statement, and it’s a teensy-tiny one, is that it is complete bullshit. The burden of proof is no different between rape and any other crime, whether the accused is male or female.
How so?
How so indeed! What a brilliantly insightful question. How so is it not different?
Let me list the ways in which a thing can be not different from another thing.
1. It’s not different.
2.
Hope that clears things up!
>What David Futrelle and many other feminists are trying to do is to stymie the organization before it has a chance to take root.
You guys are really completely unaware that the movement dates back to the 60s or so? You seriously think you’re the first rather than the third generation?
It has to be said that againstmensrights wasn’t the smartest choice for the subreddit title, as it was bound to be used as outrage fodder by the truly disingenuous or the truly stupid – Sharon, pick one, or both if you like – but perhaps againstmras was already taken or something.
Not only that, but he of Preggo Punchout fame doesn’t seem to understand the difference between a political movement and a political organization. Perhaps if he found a dictionary that would help.
Well, he doesn’t seem to understand the difference between ‘helping men’ and ‘pretending to punch pregnant women in the stomach’, so…
Hey, inurashii, is there a chocolate for noideawhatsoever? I thought there was but was confusing it with the Truffle.
Chocolate Idea-Log?
I think his chocolate should taste like bile, to simulate the feeling a pregnant woman might experience while participating in his game.
I’m sure Dave has already heard about this, but the MRAs have created YET ANOTHER shitty subreddit for themselves, this one called “Sons of Former Feminists”, dedicated entirely to the topic of women who abandoned their feminist leanings, because apparently that is something that happens enough to warrant a subreddit on the topic. There’s not much yet–only two posts–but I imagine it will become a great source of comedy very shortly.
Just to point out IR/FF is lying about the lawyer being up for a hearing because of MRAs too.
IR/Lackoffacts/PreggoPunchout: The Duke case never even went to trial, you fucking dolt.
Oh look, another asshole who needs his own blog. Fuck off, ID Douche boy.
Off topic, but the forum says it’s your birthday today hellkell! If so, happy times to you!
“Historophilia | September 26, 2012 at 5:58 pm
Well sex robots wouldn’t need to eat so that means they could never get fat! And would remain 18 for ever!”
18 is a bit old for an MRA, isn’t it?
“Dvärghundspossen | September 26, 2012 at 1:14 pm
I read his original post and well… Maybe it’s true that she’s lying through her teeth and pretend to be super happy over the baby when she’s with her female friends. And maybe that’s because our culture glorify motherhood a lot. You’re SUPPOSED to be super-happy over your baby. You’re NOT supposed to be depressed about it.”
Good points here too- and yes, he’s right that these magazines are run by women, but they’re the kind of “just as sexist as men” antifeminist women the MRAs often attack. They’re women who perpetuate the idea that women are good for motherhood and nothing else, that women should find birth (ideally a “natural” vaginal birth with no pain relief), breastfeeding and childcare come to them naturally, and that those who struggle with any of these things or get PPD should be ashamed. This is obviously bad for women, and also bad for men who aren’t seen as naturals at child-rearing and end up losing a disproportionate number of child custody cases.
Fathers’ Rights appears to be one of the main MRA causes, so you’d think the MRAs be with the feminists here and attacking the sexist women and men who run these magazines, but of course they’re just sat at their computers ranting themselves into a confused state in between twiddling their thumbs.
Duke Lacrosse illustrated how many rape trials are carried out – the burden of proof was on the defendants, rather than the accuser.
There was never a trial in the Duke Lacrosse accusations; the charges were dropped long before any trial. I’m surprised that you pretend not to know that.
Well you’re off to a great start, aren’t you?
Thanks, Shade!
Yay, happy birthday to hellkell!
I will be really happy when we finally have those glasses things that we can use to record interactions. I will turn them on every time there is a situation in which I believe someone is predating upon me (and encourage my children and others to do so as well). Said video feed will automatically go onto the web and be saved for later as irrefutable evidence. This way, there WILL be evidence if someone is trying to rape someone else, if proper consent was garnered, and rape will be much easier to prosecute, therefore there will be less of a gray area for predators to operate within.
I think that’s the problem. Rapists want to rape. They’re looking for opportunities to dismiss everything as a “misunderstanding” so they can get away with their crime. The less opportunity they get to spread the cognitive dissonance, the better.
QFT. See: victim blaming, people ‘just asking’ ‘hypothetical’ questions, casting aspersions on victims, calling people who point out the fucking epidemic of rape ‘hysterical’, demonisation of female sexuality, lying and cherrypicking statistics, comparing rape victims to inanimate objects and sex to a financial transaction, whining about being ‘owed’ sex, biological falsehoods based on shitty evopsych just-so stories, euphemisms such as the type being used by Truthy in the ‘victimology’ thread, and on and on and on ad fucking nauseum.
They want to make it so there’s no such thing as a true rape, and everything else was a victim’s fault for making the rapist just so dern confuzeled.
@thenatfantastic
I personal favourite of mine that I see come up from time to time is doodz responding to discussions of rape and rape culture by saying that it is a “demonisation of male sexuality”.
Da Fudge?
@Historophilia
And they call us misandrists!
@thenatfantastic
Time and again the evidence is pretty much irrefutable that MRA’s have more insulting, damaging and downright nasty views about men and male sexuality than any Feminist that I’ve ever met.
Certainly when it is women parroting the “men just can’t help themselves” views of male sexuality they certainly aren’t Feminists.
Reading these list posts I’m always amazed at how many people take them completely seriously and talk about how many boxes they or their partners can tick, and how they’re aiming to work harder to tick more boxes. I’d understand people doing this with, say, a list of the top ten warning signs of pre-diabetes compiled by the National Institute for Health and backed up with credible research, but I can’t see why anyone would do the same with a list of “Top Ten Things A Chick Has To Have Before I’ll Bang Her” made by a frustrated and unhinged loner in his bedroom.
@ pecunium
“Wait… sunshinemary is fine with that list, except the threesomes… so she thinks a dude who cheats is ok? Got it.”
I read her comment again more carefully – apparently a man who cheats is okay because men shouldn’t be demonized for their “preferences.” She even wants to post the list to her own blog to let women know that their “spinsterdom” is a direct result of not conforming to those expectations, ie, not being okay with being treated like shit. I don’t think she realizes that women have preferences for men too, and generally it doesn’t include being obligated to be a virgin sex toy who is okay with infidelity.
Can we get it tuned? It sounds a lot flat.
Happy birthday, Hellkell!
What irony – the guy I dated who had a list like this was also adamantly opposed to marrying anyone, ever, while most of the guys who had no such dehumanizing expectations of women were also willing to marry.
Not to overlook the fact that there isn’t a damn thing in the world wrong with “spinsterdom.”
Thanks for the birfday wishes!
For hellkell, Happy Birthday!
Happy birthday Hellkell, I’m sorry for making you barf by quoting Heartiste.
Have a birthday cat:
I’d say ninjaed, but this was always going to happen.
Also, can we just keep re-purposing this wonderful birthday octopus that Myoo created for whataboutthemoonz? ‘Cos I just think it’s the cutest thing ever, and I bet whataboutthemoonz wouldn’t mind sharing.
The original Reddit post is so upsetting. It sounds like the guy’s wife has severe depression that’s gone untreated for two years now, and all he can think about is how it affects him and his personal comfort. He doesn’t even express concern about the effect it could have on their child; it’s all me, me, me, why isn’t she working harder to please ME?
Everything he writes about his wife drips with condescension. It’s gross to read.
And the hypocrisy! He scaled back his job to spend more time at home, and he frames this as a noble sacrifice. She quit her job entirely, but that’s not a sacrifice, it’s just what girls do, and her job sucked anyway. He lovingly details every tiny thing he does to contribute to childcare, while not mentioning anything she does, even though she’s apparently the primary caregiver. She was shocked by the discovery that parenthood is harder than she expected because she’s brainwashed by the media; he was shocked by the discovery that parenthood is harder than he expected because his stupid wife isn’t doing all the work with a big happy smile, like wives do on TV. Her feelings are dumb; his feelings are truth bombs the world isn’t ready for.
Oh, and reading books on childcare is stupid, because, um…because she did it and he didn’t, and she’s the stupid one, dammit!
The frustrating thing is that their problems are solvable (get that poor woman into counseling!), but they won’t get solved because he’d rather belittle his wife and thump his chest on the Internet. A few years from now, he’ll have shed his slimy larval form and blossomed into a fully mature The Bitch Left Me For No Reason MRA.
@Shaenon,
Yeah, this is one rare case where I would support doxxing this guy — not to make his life hell, but to get his wife help! :(
I do hope he makes that transformation, because it will mean that she left the bastard.
I was under the impression he was the primary care giver who worked from home, while she went out to work and the child disappeared into a magical realm everyday (OK not the last bit but where the daughter went all day wasn’t explained). This seemed to be a fairly standard relationship in terms of work distribution (judging from relatives) but with gender roles reversed.
The magically disappearing wife and child did confuse me a bit though (the wife seems to arrive at the door with the child every evening but not exist before that, the child disappears after she gets dressed).
@pear_tree
Presumably the child goes to day care and is transported there by the wife.
That or they both enter stasis chambers at 8am.
Nepenthe I assumed the same but he was saying his wife did nothing with the child so I wasn’t sure about that. I also found it odd the wife went from having a low paying nothing job at 32 to a really high paying career while still being young enough to have a child. Maybe that does happen but given she was “hopeless” when they met I’m surprised how quickly it happened. (Unless of course hopeless is highly qualified temporarily underemployed by choice or economy). There wasn’t enough information to work everything out but I like the idea of the stasis chamber, maybe that is why his wife feels trapped?
Jumping on the bandwagon – happy birthday to Hellkell!
On topic (sorta) I thought dudes could never know what women want because we’re so mysterious and nonsensical and of course you could never ASK any woman because where’s the fun in that? I mean, Mel Gibson stared in a whole shitty movie because of that premise.
This, as mythago points out is true; but not for the reason you allege.
There was never a trial in the Duke Lacrosse accusations; the charges were dropped long before any trial.
As she said, I’m surprised that you pretend not to know that.
Happy birthday, Hellkell. Have a Pusheen Gangnam Style.