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New frontiers in victimology: Men are “intimidated” into buying women drinks in bars

Women intimidating a man in a bar.

MRAs, forever exploring new frontiers in victimology!  The latest revelation: Apparently men are being intimidated into hitting on women in bars due to the mysterious, malevolent power of their femaleness.

Here’s Howsmydirktaste, putting this theory before the good folks in the Men’s Rights subreddit for some “peer review.”

[S]eduction aims to use a man’s desire against him by giving him the possibly false impression that he may have sexual relations with the seducer. By doing so he may make decisions that he might not otherwise make (buying a drink at a bar, paying for a purse, etc.)

So women are engaged in some vast conspiracy to extort drinks and purses from men they don’t want to have sex with?

I’m pretty sure that unless a woman is holding a sign that reads “I’ll have sex with you for a drink,” that you really shouldn’t assume that she’ll have sex with you for a drink.

Intimidation does the same; the prospect of physical, monetary or emotional pain subjects the subordinate into doing things they might not otherwise do. Both of these options result in the same consequence of the dominant one convincing the subordinate that it is in their best interest to do something that is not in their best interest.

So a woman sitting in a bar looking pretty is the equivalent of a mob enforcer.

 Now morally: the main claim against male intimidation is that men, on average bigger and stronger, are being unjust by asserting a natural superiority. By doing so they have an unfair disadvantage.

Well, the claim is that when men act in an intimidating way towards women, they’re intimidating. Merely being larger than a woman isn’t a crime.

But sexually, don’t women have that same power? Men are genetically predisposed to look for mating opportunities in all women, and when a woman presents that opportunity, even the most iron-willed man could fall prey.

Apparently, we men are all at the mercy of our penises, and our penises are at the mercy of ladies looking sexy in our general vicinity.

Women don’t face that same situation; their requisite near-monogamy (because they can only have one child at a time, they are more selective in their sexual selections) means that male seduction does not hold the same sway.

Actually, the problem is that many traditional methods of “male seduction” actually involve real intimidation. And today there are a vast array of PUA sites out there offering updated versions of the old intimidating ways, teaching “pickup” techniques that are basically guides to date rape.

I think everyone here can identify a situation in which they or others have given undue attention or favor to a woman who seems a possible sexual partner. Doesn’t that result in the same affect as intimidation?

I’m going to step out on a limb here and say “no.”

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Posted on September 24, 2012, in evil women, evo psych fairy tales, misogyny, MRA, narcissism, oppressed men, playing the victim, reddit and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 270 Comments.

  1. I also think it’s good manners to say “no thanks”, if somebody you’re totally not interested in asks if you want a drink. I know some women think it’s cool and feminist to accept the drink and immediately ditch the guy. I’ve never understood this. I mean, maybe he was an entitled asshole, and in that case you can argue that he got what he deserved, but then maybe again he was a perfectly decent guy who just thought that asking a woman if she wants a drink is a good first move. And in that case, it’s just polite to let him know straight away that you’re not interested, by saying “no thanks”.

    Sure, that sounds reasonable. I mean if the woman knows he is buying the drink as a way of flirting, it’s more polite (not mandatory, of course, because manners are not laws) to just decline the drink and let him know she’s not interested. If there’s any doubt, I also think it’s okay to flat out ask him “Hey, are you offering me a drink as a way of flirting or just as a platonic, friendly gesture?” It can be awkward to say things like that, but at least there is less room for people misinterpreting each other. These manners would the other way, too, and for anyone of any gender offering to buy a drink for someone else.

  2. Creative Writing Student

    I think the easier way is for a person to go up, say “hi, I think you’re a cutie-pie, can I get you a delightful beverage?”

  3. You all make talking to people you’re attracted to (or people in general, for that matter) sound easy. :P

  4. Any chance these pigs would do all women a favour and leave us alone? Just go away. We don’t want you, and we’re not that stuck for a drink.

    Personally, I’d rather be dead in a ditch than accept anything from these crazies.

  5. Offering to buy a drink is a friendly gesture that expresses interest (not necessarily sexual) in conversation and generosity. My partner and I are sometimes treated to drinks by people in the club we frequent, and it’s clearly not a sexual overture on anyone’s part. But we always get the second round. And if we’re not interested in talking to someone, we politely declne.

    Back in the days I was dating, I didn’t expect the guy to buy me a drink, but if he didn’t offer to buy the first drink, I took it as a sign of (1) lack of interest, or (2) cheapness. And of course, I always paid for the second drink if I was interested in continuing the conversation.

  6. Creative Writing Student

    @Shade

    Well, I figured that if you’ve already got the courage up to make an overture you may as well use that courage to ask them what kind of overture they’d like to drink.

  7. You’d have to be pretty uncool to get it, but I think Katz at least is a D&D nerd? Maybe? Someone was.

    Me! Me! I’m that guy!

    The idea behind defiling and preserving was that any wizard could cast, say, magic missile (which was about your weakest spell) and take energy from the environment to add oomph to it. The result was wilted plants, starving or dead animals, and desertification. That’s defiling. Preserving was choosing to forgo that extra oomph. It was a kind of Captain Planet thing, except I don’t think it had an anvilicious conservationist message.

    So people being assholes, as they are, and player characters being power-hungry, as they are, the world of Dark Sun is pretty much all desert now, and ruled by the most powerful sorcerers, who are all immortal, and the Dragon-King of Tyr, who’s the only one who actually changed into a dragon.

    They didn’t support it with 3.x, but there was a sourcebook and monster book for 4E.

    I am indeed a D&D nerd. (At this moment, my husband is playing a shitty homebrew system that our friend made that I refuse to play because it sucks.)

    I’ve played shitty homebrew systems before. The most recent was Boring World. Nothing but shallow swamps and four cities, with no dungeons or nothing in between. The Plot would advance when our characters fell asleep and dreamed, while in the waking world we were wandering about on drudge work. And the GM would not tell us anything, but make everything a puzzle that we had to figure out and guess at answers. No fun :(

  8. An Inconvenient Truth

    “OH YEAH WELL YOU’RE A SLUT!”

    I didn’t even insinuate she was a slut. I just pointed out that she presented a textbook example of female behavior as described by the PUA community: fellating an “evil” man for half a decade while two pedestalizing eunuchs worked up the nerve to express their ‘feelings.’ I bet at least one of those beta chumps provided a dependable shoulder to cry on about how awful her lover was.

    Like I said, it’s hilarious.

  9. Creative Writing Student

    “pedestalizing”

    You do know that pedestalising someone is not a good thing, right? I don’t want a relationship with someone who thinks I’m some kind of amazing god-flower. I do fart occasionally.

    Also, Thenatfantastic had said she’d just gotten out of a relationship at that point (for at least one of the guys). That’s not a good time to ask someone out because people need time to wound-lick.

  10. So women are dangerous because they elicit sexual thoughts and feelings in men by virtue of being female-bodied and existing. And how quickly we go from this basic psycho-social complex to “women are corrupting good men”, and “women who let me buy them a drink will maybe sleep with me”, to “women who let me buy them a drink owe me whatever sex it is I am seeking”, and “all women are prostitutes and whores because they will have sex with men who buy them a drink, and that man can’t possibly always be ME”…. aaaand right back to “Women use their bodies to elicit BAD FEELINGS in good men (and trick them into buying them drinks)”.

    It ain’t healthy. It’s misplaced aggression caused by being unable to own your own sexuality. If sex is dirty, even if you like it, then being turned on by another person is perceived as an act of aggression in itself — even though the entire “attack” occurs solely by and within the mind of the person who has been aroused.

  11. Shorter Truthster: “I find it hilarious when my confirmation bias enables me to read unsubstantiated details into stories!”

  12. @Troof, I’m not gonna try to disprove your claim because I don’t feel like reading back through comments to find this shit out and everyone else will do it for me.

    My point stands, though, that you got called out and your response was a derail.

    But derailing’s all you’ve really got, so I guess I should be lenient.

  13. OK, so this guy thinks he will end up getting used. Well, it happens, and users come in BOTH genders.

  14. I love Troof so much right now.

    “I didn’t call her a slut–I called her an alpha-fellater!! That’s totally different.”

    Seriously. You said that. You… you had me at “I’m an unabashed PUA, and that’s totally not rape.”

    Hee.

  15. Sorry, guys, but this troll always gives me giggle attacks. He works so hard to defeat his own arguments in one post!!

  16. To be clear, I’m apologizing because his views are so reprehensible nobody should ever laugh. They should gasp in horror, point, and shun him. Shun him hard.

    Fight the urge to laugh. Fight it!!!

  17. Here’s the deal.

    Seduction: You will be rewarded if you act in a way you might not act otherwise, but will probably not harm you.

    Intimidation: You will be actively harmed if you refuse to act in a way you probably would not act otherwise, and might also harm you.

    Everybody sees the difference, right?

  18. @moonz:

    Come on, let’s be fair. Blue balls are pretty painful! So basically not being given sex is like physical harm.

    Eh?

    Ehhhhhh?

  19. An Inconvenient Truth A Clichéd Fallacy.
    FTFY.

  20. I’m coming to this thread late, but I want to assure NWO that this will definitely be going into the Book of Learnin':

    EDUCATION
    In order to attend any college in the U.S., male students are required to watch a video about how men are evil and women are good. The student must then take a test about the video, and if he scores less than 100% he can’t go to college.

  21. I lived in Ireland for a while (ooh, maybe I was that Canadian guy’s dream girl!), and if you were a regular at a pub, it was considered rude not to stand your round and buy drinks for everyone in the house once in a while. That must’ve gotten messy after hours.

  22. That Last Minute Resistance and Freeze Outs Stuff is disturbing. Way to teach men how to be manipulative sociopaths. I had an ex who was extremely manipulative and seemed to play all sorts of passive aggressive head games. The more I learn about game, the more I think he was into it.

  23. Those posts were terrible, although some of the comments were not so much rape-y as just kind of sad…

    Nice post, a lot of good info. Once I have a woman in my living room, I like to transition to the bedroom. To me, there is something definitive about moving to the bedroom that screams sex. I do this by bringing up art. We will talk about art, painting, etc. (girls love this shit). I then tell her I painted a large canvas and ask if she would like to see it. They always enthusiastically say “yes.” (I painted an abstract painting on a large canvas I have in my room). I tell her the painting is in my room and I take her by the hand and lead her back there. That’s when I make my move. I found this dramatically lowers last minute resistance.

    So this is the modern day equivalent of “Would you like to come up and see my etchings?”

    I’m picturing something like this. And the discussion is probably along the lines of “The blue represents my sufferings and tribulations. The mauve bits are reflective of the lessons I’ve learned during my great trials (see how the mauve sort of ‘takes over’ that happy face in the upper left? That symbolizes my ‘don’t worry, be happy’ philosophy), and the white background is a reminder that hope springs eternal.” That dialog totally screams sex, and no woman can resist a man who screams about sex. Do not worry if the woman collapses in hysterical laughter at this point; that’s just another kind of LMR! Keep kinoing her, and don’t forget to LIHGOD:EKNG, since that is what really closes the deal.

  24. From one of those awful LMR sites:

    look, i have been at this a long time, constantly looking for the girl that i wanna fall in love with, i have been friend zoned so many times, im looking for a way to make everyones life better, not just me. i am a good person, and i will do anything at this point to show a women that. and if it means, employing so Technic then so be it. the women in my life deserve a real mad that isnt going to let them down. i have been to quiet for way to long. thank you alpha, and the other guys on this site. im learning stuff that i have seen work, but never has anyone been able to explain it to me.

    What a catch.

  25. BTW, if any men out there would like to know what LIHGOD:EKNG stands for, please send me $29.95 and I will send you my FREE e-book: How to Have Lots of Passionless, Machine-Like Sex with Insecure & Vulnerable Ladies. Manly orgasms are guaranteed!*

    *Orgasms for any gender are not actually guaranteed. E-book is not actually free. Product may contain peanuts, so if you have nut allergies proceed with caution. Pregnant women, the elderly and women who are conscious should avoid prolonged exposure to PUAs, as they have been known to cause irreversible vomiting laughter, which is dangerous for all in the vicinity. Please do not kino anyone without their express permission, as that can lead to assault charges. Do not read e-book in the shower or bathtub, or during thunderstorms. Please keep e-book refrigerated, and use before the expiration date on the package. Do not operate heavy machinery while under the influence of PUAs, unless you are chasing them down in an armored tank.

  26. Here’s a PUA bragging about how he totally scored with a HB! And by “scored,” he apparently meant “date raped.” [TRIGGER WARNING]

    I tried kissing her with the mystery question, would you like to kiss me? She said no, I don’t know you. A stupid trick and I won’t use it again… I’ll just come over and kiss, and this is what I did afterwards, without asking, just taking her and kissing. This is what they want (don’t listen to them.”

    “Things moved along… believe me, I came across countless objections on the way to close an FC (“Fuck close”), but I persisted and stayed consistent to the end. Okay we started making out on the bed and she just refused to take off her clothes and made all kinds of excuses… but I’m a blind rhino, she doesn’t know me. I used a quick seduction technique and it totally confused her, I took her hand and put it on my cock… slowly slowly I closed a BJC [Blowjob Close]. I thought I can stop there, but something inside told me not to give up, and Duracula’s contract was sitting on my head. I didn’t give up and continued being consistent to the end. I tried taking off her panties and the girl just wouldn’t! And then I thought, do I go for freeze out or quick seduction? I moved her panties to the right, and bang! The girl is stunned and so am I, actually… after that everything went fine, the clothes went off and the FC was closed.

    This PUA post is discussed in detail here:

    http://972mag.com/guys-i-just-totally-raped-this-student-chick/6803/

  27. From David’s link:

    Shtark replies: “There are safety rule that allow the girl to stop at any moment, so that it won’t be a rape. Roso was briefed in detail by our lawyer at the course.”

    They have LAWYERS present at their classes? Holy crap.

  28. Wow. [shudder] It looks like this was actually reported to the police as “incitement to rape” since he also encourages other men to use the same techniques. I couldn’t find any story that said what, if anything, happened, although the police were able to discover his real identity.

  29. Also what the hell was this magical “safety rule” that allowed her to make him stop?

    She told him no and refused to take her clothes and underwear off, repeatedly objected to what he was doing and he just kept going? What the hell else was she supposed to do?

    She clearly was not being allowed to “stop at any moment” IF THE GUY IGNORED HER EVERY TIME SHE TOLD HIM SHE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE SEX!

    What is this special password that will prevent PUA dudes from date raping me? Because I think we should all be informed as a matter of public safety.

    Also, when will these people understand, that if you do not allow someone to say no or withdraw consent, that if you repeatedly ignore their no’s, verbal or non-verbal and they eventually give up and lie there in the hope that it may be over sooner…. THEN YOU HAVE FUCKING RAPED SOMEONE ARGELHJBZDSKFYHZKDFJHVXKDFBKHFGB

  30. @inurashii

    the women in my life deserve a real mad that isnt going to let them down

    The good news for him is that he’ll definitely succeed in giving the women in his life a real mad

  31. Holy shit. Jesus H. Christ, if she says “no” repeatedly is it so damn difficult to say “OK, I’ll stop” and THEN STOP?? I’ve been in situations like that and damn. There comes a point where you realize “he’s going to rape me no matter what I say or do.” Stunned doesn’t begin to describe my reaction.

    There’s a famous rape case where a guy took a woman’s car keys away after she had driven him to his apartment after their date. Guy took the keys, wouldn’t give them back until she had come up to his place. Once up there, he took her clothes off and penetrated her as she lay there frozen and crying. After he was done she asked him, “Are you going to kill me now? Please don’t kill me.” Appallingly, at least four guys in my law school class said it WASN’T rape because “she never said no.”

    Those two weeks of Criminal class were the worst of my first year in law school. Triggers galore.

    Also, just to stay on topic, I’ve bought other women drinks before as a sign of interest. Somehow, I managed to refrain from raping them after they either declined the drink, or accepted it but didn’t reciprocate interest. Fancy that.

  32. @Historophilia

    It’s not that they don’t understand that, it’s just that they don’t give a shit as long as they don’t get caught.

  33. @shadow

    You are of course right, I am still naively functioning under the belief that most people are decent at heart.

    Well I still believe this but I’ll go so far as to say that anyone who subscribes to PUA beliefs automatically does not.

  34. What is this special password that will prevent PUA dudes from date raping me?

    Possibly this one: “I just dialed 911 so they can record me screaming NO STOP RAPING ME as you rape me to make it easier for the prosecutor during the trial. so NO STOP RAPING ME” and yell that last over and over until he stops.

    (I know this is very unlikely and not at all the secret password. Because there is no secret password since they have no intention of ever stopping. :( )

  35. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    Gods. I need kitties after that. And I didn’t even follow those links.

  36. themisanthropicmuse

    @Historophilia “Also what the hell was this magical “safety rule” that allowed her to make him stop?”
    Why do I imagine it’s similar to the following:

    PUA safety rule Number 1# If she gets ahold of something she can use as a deadly weapon while you are attempting to ‘seduce her forcefully’, run away for your own safety! Bitches be crazy, yo!

  37. If only women were taught to be assertive, and that is perfectly acceptable to say “No” and get up and leave, and that your safety is more important than hurting a man’s feelings or giving him blue balls.

  38. @thenatfantastic

    Ugh, that story, and this quote.

    “I watched her. She was one of those people who seemed the most genuine caring person you’d ever meet. I stood up and asked for directions and asked for the time – if I had just paid her a compliment, told her she was amazing, I could have put this to rest.”

    So if he’d told her she was amazing and she’d said “um, thanks? all I did was tell you how to get to the train station”, and he’d then asked her out and she’d said “no”, or “sorry but I’m married” or “actually I’m a lesbian” then he’d have been satisfied with that? Somehow I doubt it, given that he’s framing this as if an approach from him would have guaranteed that she’d be his forever.

    The whole thing is creepy for all the reasons you mentioned, but it’s his assumption that of course this complete stranger would go along with whatever plans he has for her if only he’d made those plans clear that really bothers me, because it reminds me of every incident I’ve ever experienced (or friends have experienced) where a man has acted first baffled and then angry that the woman he’s hitting on doesn’t actually exist purely to fulfill his needs.

    “Bareback persistence” made me quite literally shudder, and now I feel like I need to go bathe in disinfectant. Thanks for reminding us that PUAs are horrible people, Truthy.

  39. The same point can be made about the claim that men are genetically predisposed to sleep around. One can picture a situation where evolution has caused men to sleep around as much as they possibly can with women in a fertile age, because historically, men who did this spread their genes more. Once again, this evolutionary mechanism would only require that men are horny sex beasts ready to fuck anything which is young and female, that there was no birth control around, and that women generally took care of the babies once they were born. No actually WISH to spread his genes is required.

    The thing about this argument that gets me is that, if it were true, it would mean that men should not form any kind of instinctive attachment to their children. And yet, these guys who argue that this is how men work will turn right around and bemoan the fact that men don’t get custody of their children enough.

  40. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    And I wonder how the MRM creeps account for men who manage to love children that aren’t theirs, if it’s all about genetics?

    But then love of any sort is beyond their grasp.

  41. I just pointed out that she presented a textbook example of female behavior as described by the PUA community: fellating an “evil” man for half a decade while two pedestalizing eunuchs worked up the nerve to express their ‘feelings.’ I bet at least one of those beta chumps provided a dependable shoulder to cry on about how awful her lover was.

    Lol no. Was that a neg or something? Sorry Truthy, guess you’ll just have to stay a “lowly beta” for now, because I wouldn’t touch your bait with a 3000 foot pole with a bucket of disinfectant on the end.

    I’m sorry that everyone thinks you’re a horrible person, but you deserve it and I hope you fall into a vat of sticklebricks.

  42. Well, yeah, if your confirmation bias is strong enough then pretty much everything will seem like a textbook example of the behavior you expect to see. This doesn’t mean that your interpretation is correct, it means that you need to see a shrink.

  43. By the way, ‘Lol no’ is short for ‘every thing you read into that was wrong because a) you’re a terrible idiot who knows nothing about me, b) people don’t follow ‘textbook patterns’, c) ‘alpha’ and beta are meaningless terms both in biology and in PUA circles, since the definition changes more often than my underwear (and I’m a clean freak) and d) GAME IS FOR MORONIC TWITS WHO HAVE NO COMPUNCTION ABOUT RAPING PEOPLE, AND ARE THUS DISGUSTING ABUSIVE RAPIST MORONIC TWITS’.

  44. There’s also the fact that you mentioned that you barely knew one of the “beta chumps”, and that he had in fact been actively pursuing you.

    Therapy, Truthy – you should really look into it.

  45. @PsychoDan: Yeah, as I pointed out before, there are plenty of perfectly valid criticism to throw against evo-psych, and that’s one of them.

    All I wanted to point out is that there theories do NOT require that people actually think about or wish for chlldren when they have sex, so pointing THAT out is arguing against a straw man. But there’s plenty of other criticism to be made.

  46. And the other one I hadn’t seen for about six months beforehand, and did not, in fact, ‘pedestalise’ me, but merely wanted to see if I thought we could be more than friends, then backed off when I said no. I didn’t cry on anyone’s shoulder, because I wasn’t sad.

    I think Truthy thinks my ex was alpha because I described him as evil. He was evil, but not in the ‘fucking around and negging me’ TROO ALFA way, in the ‘was an average to middling partner then had a severe emotional breakdown after we’d been together for nearly four years and refused to get help, instead taking it all out on me’ way.

    But, y’know, confirmation bias.

  47. There’s a famous rape case where a guy took a woman’s car keys away after she had driven him to his apartment after their date. Guy took the keys, wouldn’t give them back until she had come up to his place. Once up there, he took her clothes off and penetrated her as she lay there frozen and crying. After he was done she asked him, “Are you going to kill me now? Please don’t kill me.” Appallingly, at least four guys in my law school class said it WASN’T rape because “she never said no.”

    That’s really, really terrible.

    I have a sunnier story. I just found out the other day that my male colleagues are pretty awesome.

    For some reason the issue of sexual violence came up in the lunch room when me and a bunch of men were sitting there. I mentioned the discussion that was all over the internet and media like a year ago – some feminist politician had suggested that the rape law should be changed, so that it counts as rape if one partner did nothing to show that zie was consenting. As the law is written now, it takes the use of actual physical force, an explicit threat, or the abuse of somebody who was “in a helpless condition” (which means more or less unconscious on booze or drugs), or a victim below the age of fifteen if it’s gonna count as rape. So the story you describe wouldn’t actually be rape according to Swedish law, if he hadn’t really made a threat, but it was “merely” a very threatening situation.

    So my male colleagues had somehow missed out on this entire debate, but when I explained to them the idea of a consent law they were like “Uh yeah that sounds reasonable”. I said “But there was extreme opposition from loads of guys who thought that it was completely preposterous that one would be demanded to make sure that the woman consents to sex before getting on with it… Everyone was like “Oh, if that were the law, poor innocent dudes could totally rape somebody by mistake! Because it’s SO DIFFICULT to know whether a woman really wants sex or not unless she screams NO I DON’T WANT TO HAVE SEX!”

    So all my male colleagues were like “WHAT? Seriously? Did people say that? That it’s difficult to know if a woman wants to have sex with you or not? Like…. what do they mean? Do they ask her, and think she says “okay”, but afterwars they’re like “or maybe she said ‘no’?” [okay and no rhymes in Swedish] Or do they just STARE at the woman without saying anything and then they’re all like “She LOOKS like she wanna have sex with me” and then they just charge ahead?”
    Everyone was laughing at how totally ridiculous it is to think that it’s difficult to know whether a woman wants to have sex with you or not.

    Okay, this doesn’t really make them awesome, rather makes them normal decent human beings… BUT it seems to be SUCH A TERRIFYINGLY COMMON attitude among men that it’s really hard to tell the difference between a woman who’s consenting and one who’s not, that this reaction from my colleagues warmed my heart a bit.

  48. Everyone was laughing at how totally ridiculous it is to think that it’s difficult to know whether a woman wants to have sex with you or not.

    Which would be my reaction too. Hand on heart, there has never been a point in my life when I haven’t been completely certain that full and enthusiastic consent was given. It really shouldn’t be hard to tell – and if it is, you either ask outright or just don’t do it.

    And I suspect I’m not the only one who thinks that having sex with someone who doesn’t actually want to have sex must be a pretty unpleasant experience for both participants. After all, unless you’re some kind of sadist, or someone profoundly incapable of empathy, shouldn’t an unmistakable look of fear, hatred or revulsion on her part be a fairly massive turn-off?

    But then again, my partner’s pleasure is an absolutely crucial ingredient for me, which puts me fundamentally at odds with most MRAs.

  49. An Inconvenient Truth

    I don’t know, Truthy, this looks to me like a vast array of sites offering advice that looks an awful lot like date-rape how-tos.

    Pigga, please. Closing a hesitant buyer is not theft.

  50. I would just like to recognize Truthy’s hard work here. It isn’t easy to be this stupid or evil; he really puts a lot of effort in. In recognition of that, Truthy, here is your certificate, suitable for framing.

  51. Closing a hesitant buyer is not theft.

    Taking the money out of someone’s wallet because they didn’t actively tell you “No, you are not allowed to take money from me without my permission” is theft, though, and that’s what pretty much every PUA story boils down to.

    (Obviously the framing of women’s bodies, or anyone’s bodies, as property to be negotiated over transactionally is gross and invasive and abusive and wrong, but since Truthster can’t even figure out the simple-ass implications of his own rapetastic worldview I thought I’d better stick to explaining how he’s wrong even if you accept his ugly assumptions.)

  52. Pigga, please. Closing a hesitant buyer is not theft.

    This is the stupidest analogy I’ve heard. There are any number of illegal ways to close a sale, so even if they don’t classify as theft, that doesn’t make them any less illegal or prosecutable.

  53. I’m gonna smooth past that “Pigga please” just to keep from being overwhelmed with pity at the thought of you gleefully rubbing your hands over your selfperceived wit.

  54. Aw, Truth, honey. A penis is not a defective car that you can only get off the lot by scamming customers until one of them gets fed up and calls the cops on you. At least, most people’s penises aren’t.

  55. An Inconvenient Truth

    There are any number of illegal ways to close a sale, so even if they don’t classify as theft, that doesn’t make them any less illegal or prosecutable.

    And there are a number of perfectly legal ways to convince fence-sitters to act, which is why Futterball’s blanket condemnation of all PUA sites that address LMR is idiotic.

  56. Honestly, I’m pretty sure there is not a single PUA site on the web that doesn’t advocate some form of coercive, abusive behaviour, but even if there is the fact that Truth-banana is more concerned about how PUAs are getting lumped in with rape advocates than about how there are any PUAs advocating rape speaks volumes about his priorities.

    Also, some day the “stop shaming men’s bodies” MRAs should really get together with the “men who don’t fit into my narrowly-defined conception of acceptable masculinity are worthless” MRAs and hash out their differences, because as it is they’re sort of muddling the message.

  57. @Troof:

    Link us.

    Show us one PUA site that mentions LMR in a non-rapey way. Just one.

    I mean, it’d take more than one example to actually convince anybody reasonable that the whole deal isn’t a clear-cut rape-enabling tactic, but I’m doubting that you can find a single one. So I want you to try.

  58. I suppose it’s pointless to ask truthy whether “not technically illegal” should really be the benchmark of one’s morality.

  59. My main hobby is going to public parks and whispering mean things at children playing until they cry. I mean, it’s not illegal. I don’t see why everyone is so fuckin’ judgemental.

  60. The Kittehs' Unpaid Help

    And I suspect I’m not the only one who thinks that having sex with someone who doesn’t actually want to have sex must be a pretty unpleasant experience for both participants. After all, unless you’re some kind of sadist, or someone profoundly incapable of empathy, shouldn’t an unmistakable look of fear, hatred or revulsion on her part be a fairly massive turn-off?

    But then again, my partner’s pleasure is an absolutely crucial ingredient for me, which puts me fundamentally at odds with most MRAs.

    This. More and more, it seems to me that the MRM is just a bunch of sadistic men who want to hurt women, who want to abuse us sexually and emotionally, and whose only pleasure comes from this.

  61. NWO: Yep… that guy is suffering; his life has been ruined.

    A former Xavier University basketball star, expelled for a student code violation but cleared of criminal charges, will be heading to the University of Maryland. Desmine Wells reportedly chose the Terps over Memphis, Oregon and Kentucky, according to CBS Sports.

    Or maybe not, he had four schools recruiting him, even after Xavier expelled him.

    Of course you want Xavier to be forced to not expel people; no matter what they think happened. The right of that institution to make its own decisions is null and void, so far as you are concerned, because a gov’t office disagreed with them.

    Xavier has to listen to the gov’t, not their own conscience if they want to please you.

  62. PUA?
    A good new danger to learn of.
    And the dangers never end.
    There is one saying doods should pick up chicks in least competitive social groups where “You get paired up with one of these girls and are forced into locking eyes with her” http://www.pick-up-artist-forum.com/kill-your-competition-with-this-obvious-tip-vt146782.html
    “Forced into locking eyes”
    These people are going to get friendzoned because they will not make the intention clear, and will become dangerous.

  63. An Inconvenient Truth

    Show us one PUA site that mentions LMR in a non-rapey way. Just one.

    Easy.

  64. That’s not a site, it’s a post by Roosh, who is well known for advocating rape.

    0/10

  65. I’m beginning to suspect that the inconvenient truth that our friend is hiding is that he doesn’t actually know what the word “rape” means. I also suspect that this is a deliberate choice on his part – if he learned what it meant he’d have to admit that he’s devoted his life to trying to make sure it happens as often as possible.

  66. @An Inconvenient Truth

    You’ve taken her on a date or two, you’ve held long conversations with her, and you’ve plotted and strategized — imagine the frustration to have her within ejaculating distance of your bed only to see sex vanish with a poof as she grabs her purse and tells you what a nice time she had.

    Women want to be led by men, and never is this more apparent, and more true, than two steps from your bedroom. Women particularly love when men tell them what to do sexually. It hits all the female buttons that crave submission to a dominant man. She will love you for making her a follower, and resent you for allowing her to lead.
    Ordering a girl to change positions — note, I said *ordering*, not politely asking — is one of the hottest things you can do for a woman in bed.

    Make your move sooner rather than later, but always make it on your terms, never hers.

    You really don’t understand what non-rapey means, do you?

  67. Cassandra and Myoo, I think he knows exactly what rape is, and has a positive view of it.

  68. An Inconvenient Truth

    That’s not a site, it’s a post by Roosh, who is well known for advocating rape.

    That’s not a post by Roosh, sweetie.

    You really don’t understand what non-rapey means, do you?

    You really don’t understand what consensual dominance means, do you?

  69. You really don’t understand what consensual dominance means, do you?

    Yeah, we do. But true to your unrelenting quest to further your exquisite fucknuttery, you and your PUA cohort don’t seem to know jack shit about consensual ANYTHING.

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