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Splitsville! Paul Elam starts a rival Men’s Rights subreddit, where he can ban people

It was, perhaps, inevitable, and now it has come to pass: obviously fed up with Men’s Rights Redditors questioning his wisdom (and his tactics, and his general narcissistic assholery) on a fairly regular basis, A Voice for Men Supreme Leader Paul Elam has started up his own Men’s Rights subredditr/mensrightsactivists –in which he can summarily ban all ”armchair activists” and “white knights” and “people who disagree with him.” Yep, that’s right: he’s made like a Trotskyist banana, and split.

Elam has long had a fairly strained relationship with Reddit MRAs. If you search through his comment history on Reddit, you can see evidence of numerous meltdowns on his part, which occur fairly regularly whenever anyone challenges him on pretty much anything, even when they are otherwise sympathetic to his views. On his own blog, he responds to such criticism by quickly banning the critics; on Reddit, he has tended to respond with schoolyard insults, digs at the masculinity of his critics, long recitations of his many fine accomplishments as a dedicated armchair activist, and the occasional rape joke.

Clearly the final straw for Elam was the reception given to a post of his on the poster controversy I wrote about here.  Some samples from the discussion. Builtbro offers a substantive critique of Elam’s badly worded posters:

HolyCounsel is a bit more blunt:

And then there’s this edifying exchange:

The massive numbers of upvotes for Elam’s critics and downvotes for his, er, rebuttals seem to be at least partially the result of an invasion from r/SubredditDrama. Still, Elam seems to take each and every downvote personally, so the 238 net downvotes on his “Kleenex” comment must have stung.

In his new subreddit, threads like these clearly won’t be allowed to happen. As Elam explains in his less-than-welcoming “Welcome” message to new visitors:

While dissenters and the blue pill public will be welcome to post links and comment, trolls and other annoyances will be summarily booted with pleasure. This is an MRA dominated zone.

A couple of things to consider: Dissent, especially that which serves to further the improvement of the men’s movement, is welcome and appreciated. But if you want to post here, as a supposed MRA, telling others what is wrong with their work, you better have some MRA credentials.

Inactive, armchair quarterbacks, are not allowed here, unless their posts reflect genuine concern for improving and supporting the MRM and respect for those actually doing the work. If you want to ask questions so that you can learn, that is fine. But if you want to question, just so you can tear down, and you are not an MRA, then it will be adios for you. I’d sooner give a feminist the floor than a back seat driver.

R/mensrightsactivists: Come for the Elam-approved opinions, stay for the bans! Indeed, Elam devotes as much space in his “welcome” message to explaining whom he’ll ban as he does to actually spelling out what the subreddit will ostensibly do differently than good old r/mensrights.

Of course, this is not the first time that some angry MRA or two has decided to start another Men’s Rights subreddit designed to appeal to more, well, belligerent  MRAs. Reddit already boasts an assortment of such subreddits, all of them fairly sparsely populated, including Rights4Men, Male Studies, and FeMRAs, a more obnoxious alternative to the already sparsely populated LadyMRAs. There’s even another subreddit devoted to MRA activism; it goes by the name of, well, MRAactivism. (There may be several more, but I can’t remember what they’re called.)

The Men’s Rights subreddit has nearly 45,000 subscribers; Elam’s new subreddit currently has 49, which is no doubt why he continues to post links to his blog in the original Men’s Rights subreddit. Whether Elam’s new subreddit succeeds and splits the MRM in two, or dies an inglorious death, one thing is sure: there will be plenty of new material for me here at Man Boobz.

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Posted on August 27, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, are these guys 12 years old?, dozens of upvotes, grandiosity, homophobia, incoherent rage, melodrama, MRA, narcissism, paul elam, rape jokes, reddit, the poster revolution has begun and tagged , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 382 Comments.

  1. Does Elam specify the gender of the victim or the assailants that he wants to acquit?

    For example, does he believe that the rapers of men in prison should be acquitted? And of children?

  2. Interestingly enough for a guy who’s supposed to be all about men’s rights, Elam doesn’t seem to care that men can be raped too. I guess he figures that male rape victims are acceptable collateral damage in his war against women.

  3. NO GUYS, ITS THE RAPE CULTURES! I’M FUCKING SERIOUS!

    Hide yo wife, hide yo keeeeds! Dey rapin’ errybody up in hurr!

    Hit the fucking deck! The rape cultures are sending out rape torpedos!

  4. Still trying to prove there’s no rape culture by making light of rape? You don’t have to keep it up, we understood the first time..

  5. You guys go on back to trying to convince yourselves of “rape culture” and the like.

    DLZ, fuck you. Seriously, fuck the fucking fuck off. This summer, after three years of campaigning for the funds to do it, a Detroit prosecutor has discovered 20 serial rapists and one serial murder by processing only 1,000 of the 11,000 untested rape kits in her city. That’s right — a serial killer who went on to kill five women because he wasn’t caught when his first rape was never properly investigated. That’s how rape is treated in this country. It is ignored. It isn’t even investigated. We would rather have serial killers slaughtering people than spend the money even processing a rape kit.

    So again, GO FUCK YOURSELF and take your bullshit with you.

  6. So again, GO FUCK YOURSELF and take your bullshit with you.

    [applause]

  7. And, it’s even worse than I thought. They found 20 serial rapists and 1 serial killer out of just over 150 of the 11,000 kits. Their federal grant is only enough to process around 1500 of the 11,000 untested kits. So, out of less than 200 reported rapes in just one large city, 20 were committed by men who raped multiple women, and one was committed by a man who went on to kill five women.

  8. Rape is not a problem! I will prove this by making jokes about rape!

  9. Seriously DLZ (you dumbshit troll), you’re only proving our point for us.

  10. DLZ is banned for rape jokes, racism and homophobia. Good work, DLZ!

  11. Thanks David, he was pretty over the top.

  12. some guy bored with your schtick

    David,

    I only went over the last three pages of comments, and found DLZ’s remarks on two of them. His offenses hardly seem worth banning, at least not in a post in which you complain that Paul Elam has this horrible new sub-reddit so he can ban people.

    Somewhat interestingly, cloudiah also made a rape joke:

    “Keep fucking that chicken, DLZ.”

    Bye cloudiah, I felt you were one of the more interesting commentators, too.

  13. Not a rape joke, a reference.

  14. some guy, let me know when Elam stops banning people who disagree with him, and starts banning people for rape jokes, homophobia and racism, and I will offer him sincere praise.

    Of course, if he were to do that, he’s have to start with himself, since he’s made homophobic remarks and rape jokes on reddit and on AVFM.

  15. Some guy does not realize that he’s far more likely to be banned eventually than Cloudiah ever will be.

  16. some guy bored with your schtick

    But that’s my point, cloudiah made a rape joke, no ban there. DLZ said you lost to Elam, I have no idea, and frankly don’t care, and he seems to be gone.

    And I apologize to everyone, seriously, in my very brief review, of the past two pages, I didn’t see any homophobia or racism from DLZ (I could easily have missed it.)

    Also ShadeTheDruid, just because cloudiah made a familiar rape joke doesn’t make it less of a rape joke.

    Anyway, David, there is a post at http://www.reddit.com/r/mensrightsactivists/ claiming that this blog, your blog, is the source of a downvote brigade that is hiding their posts.

    There seems little to no evidence of that, but you may wish to take the opportunity to remind your readers that you do not condone such attacks on anyone, and that in the interest of free and open dialogue, even with people you disagree with, you want no part of your blog to be associated with such disruptive behavior.

  17. I guess some guy feels that DLZ’s rape jokes and homophobic slurs were adding a valuable perspective to the conversation. Never mind that David’s commenting policy is one of the most lenient you’ll find on the web, as evidenced by the fact that some guy still hasn’t been banned for being unbearably tedious.

    Somewhat interestingly

    Do you have to work at being this terrible a writer or does it just come naturally?

  18. Are “it’s not fair” trolls a recognized type? You know, those who just hang around in order to latch onto any perceived disparity?

    Earth to some guy: This is David’s blog. He can ban one person for being a dipshit and keep another for being awesome, it’s entirely his prerogative.

  19. Anyway, David, there is a post at http://www.reddit.com/r/mensrightsactivists/ claiming that this blog, your blog, is the source of a downvote brigade that is hiding their posts.

    Right, because no one else in the entire interwebs could ever find any of the shit that goes on there offensive.

  20. I didn’t see any homophobia or racism from DLZ (I could easily have missed it.)

    It’s on the spooge thread.

  21. But that’s my point, cloudiah made a rape joke, no ban there. DLZ said you lost to Elam, I have no idea, and frankly don’t care, and he seems to be gone.

    it wasnt a rape joke you drooling moron

    btw at this point you really should probably consider a name change to ‘some guy obsessed with you shtick’ for accuracy’s sake

  22. Anyway, David, there is a post at http://www.reddit.com/r/mensrightsactivists/ claiming that this blog, your blog, is the source of a downvote brigade that is hiding their posts.

    A website that exposes hate groups leads people to downvote the posts of hate groups?

    I am SHOCKED. SHOCKED!

  23. I love how by now, the working MRA definition of “free speech” is:
    “I get to say hateful crap and everyone has to treat it like it’s an actual political position. If I advocate rape, noone can call me creepy or rapey. If I post things in a public forum, noone can downvote it. If I post homophobic slurs on someone’s website, they can’t ban me.

    Anything less is an attack on my human rights.”

  24. There seems little to no evidence of that,

    Well that’s hardly different from all the other claims MRAs make, so hey, don’t let that stop you.

  25. some guy bored with your schtick

    Thank you Ugh for the pointer.

  26. some guy bored with your schtick

    “I love how by now, the working MRA definition of “free speech” is:
    “I get to say hateful crap and everyone has to treat it like it’s an actual political position. If I advocate rape, noone can call me creepy or rapey. If I post things in a public forum, noone can downvote it. If I post homophobic slurs on someone’s website, they can’t ban me.”

    If you’re referring to me, that’s pretty much filled with straw.

  27. “Keep fucking that chicken” is a rape joke now? Do you MRAs have a compulsion to trivialize rape, no matter what?

  28. In this conversation, you have:
    1. Objected to David banning somebody for homophobic slurs against another user
    2. Objected to people downvoting the posts of hate groups.

    I didn’t even have to press older comments this time.

    Attention all MRAs: “Strawman” does not mean “an argument against a person’s stated position.”

  29. You also have insisted multiple times over the last week that your hate is an actual political position. If you had said something about calling MRAs creepy and rapey, you would be four for four.

  30. I was going to say that DLZ is off to whine about being banned by the mean meanies, but behold! Some guy is here to do it for him.

    That seems more common lately, this affected outrage over moderation and bans on feminist sites (despite the fact that most MRA sites will ban for far less). I think at least part of it is that there’s a common MRA tactic of trying to overrun places where they don’t like the tone of the conversation (see r/feminism, r/2x and just about every hapless news site that gets linked from r/MR or AVfM). Strong moderation policies prevent them from doing that, and so they come and complain about how ‘unfair’ it is that they don’t get to control the conversation.

    Of course the moderation policy here is so lenient that none of that really applies. And still we get complaints about not giving the people who just come here to be nasty a chance.

  31. @Dan

    Well, the primary idea of their movement is that men should be allowed to abuse women and children without suffering any consequences, so it makes sense that they would also feel entitled to make internet personal attacks without consequence.

    In some guy’s case, though, I think he has gotten it into his head that if he can catch us on semantic or blog policy errors, that would change the fact that he’s in a hate movement.

    Note to some guy: it wouldn’t.

  32. I like how if people upvote stuff on Reddit, they’re expressing their opinions as a matter of course, but if people downvote it, they’re a “brigade” and this is evil and wrong.

    (I dunno about you guys, but I don’t even bother to downvote MRA crap on MRA subreddits. I’d be there all day, and I don’t care that much about your Internet Points. Probably the downvotes are coming from other MRAs considering all the intra-MRM shit Elam has been stirring.)

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