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Yo, dudes: Alpha males are a myth, according to actual experts on wolves

Manosphere misogynists like to tell themselves fairy tales about women. Their favorite such tale, repeated endlessly, is one called “The Cock Carousel” – sometimes referred to in expanded form as the “Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel” or the “Bad Boy Cock Carousel.” (Hence that Rooster-riding gal you see in this blog’s header about half the time.)

Despite the different names, the story is always, monotonously, the same: In their late teens and twenties, when they’re at the height of their sexual appeal, women (or at least the overwhelming majority of them) have sex in rapid succession with an assortment of charismatic but unreliable alpha males and “bad boys” who make their vaginas (or just ‘ginas) tingle. Then, sometime in their mid-to-late twenties, these women “hit the wall,” with their so-called sexual market value (or SMV) dropping faster than Facebook’s stock price. As Roissy/Heartiste puts it, in his typically overheated prose:

So sad, so tragic, the inevitable slide into sexual worthlessness that accompanies women, the withering tick tock of the cosmic clock stripping their beauty in flayed bits of soulletting mignons like psychological ling chi. A sadistic thief in the night etching, billowing, draping and sagging a new affront to her most preciously guarded asset.

While many women try to pretend they’ve still “got it,” even at the ripe old age of thirty, they inevitably have to either get off or get thrown off the “cock carousel.” At this point the more savvy women glom onto some convenient “beta male” who, while somewhat lacking in sexual appeal, will at least be a good husband and provider for them – and in many cases the children they’ve had with alpha male seed. Those women who don’t accept the new reality are destined to end up alone and childless, surrounded by cats.

To borrow the phrase South Park used in its episodes about Scientology and Mormonism, this is what manosphere men actually believe. Not only that, but they claim that this fairy tale is based on real science.

So who are these mysterious alpha males that get the women so excited? As one guide to pickup artist (PUA) lingo puts it:

In animal hierarchies, the Alpha Male is the most dominant, and typically the physically strongest member of the group. For example, in wolf packs, the “alpha wolf” is the strongest member of the pack, and is the leader of the group. This position of leadership is often achieved by killing or defeating the previous Alpha Male in combat. Alpha wolves have first access to food as well as mating privileges with the females of the pack.

Social status among human social groups is less rigidly defined than in the animal kingdom, but there are some recognizable parallels. Although people don’t often engage in physical violence to achieve dominance, there are still recognizable leaders in different fields who have wide access to material resources and women.

Because the qualities of the Alpha Male (such as social dominance and leadership) are attractive to women, many PUAs have adopted these ideals as models of emulation. In fact, the term “alpha” has come be shorthand for the qualities of an attractive man, and it is a common refrain among PUAs to be “more alpha” or to “out alpha” competitors.

There’s a certain logic to all this. But unfortunately for the PUAs and other manospherians the notion of the Alpha male is based on bad science. The notion of Alpha dominance, as the definition above notes, came originally from studies of wolf packs. Even if we assume that wolf behavior is somehow a good model upon which to base our understanding of human romance  – as manosphere men and evolutionary psychologists tend to do – the science behind the Alpha male wolf has now come completely undone, with many of those who promulgated the theory in the first place decades ago now explicitly repudiating it.

The problem, you see, is that the studies underlying the notion of the alpha male wolf, who aggressively asserts his dominance over beta males in order to rule the pack, were all based on observations of wolves in captivity. In the real world, wolf packs don’t work that way at all. Most wolf packs are basically wolf families, with a breeding pair and their pups. When male pups reach adulthood, they don’t fight their fathers for dominance — they go out and start their own families.

As noted wolf behavior expert L. David Mech, one of those who helped to establish and popularize the notion of the alpha wolf in the first place, explains on his website:

The concept of the alpha wolf is well ingrained in the popular wolf literature at least partly because of my book “The Wolf: Ecology and Behavior of an Endangered Species,” written in 1968, published in 1970, republished in paperback in 1981, and currently still in print, despite my numerous pleas to the publisher to stop publishing it. Although most of the book’s info is still accurate, much is outdated. We have learned more about wolves in the last 40 years then in all of previous history.

One of the outdated pieces of information is the concept of the alpha wolf. “Alpha” implies competing with others and becoming top dog by winning a contest or battle. However, most wolves who lead packs achieved their position simply by mating and producing pups, which then became their pack. In other words they are merely breeders, or parents, and that’s all we call them today, the “breeding male,” “breeding female,” or “male parent,” “female parent,” or the “adult male” or “adult female.” In the rare packs that include more than one breeding animal, the “dominant breeder” can be called that, and any breeding daughter can be called a “subordinate breeder.”

So the dominant male wolves – those whom manosphere dudes would still call the alphas – achieve this position not by being sexy badasses but simply by siring and taking responsibility for pups. To use the terminology in the manner of manosphere dudes, alphas become alphas by acting like betas. That’s right: alphas are betas. (For more of the details, see this paper by Mech; it’s in pdf form.)

Also, they’re wolves and not humans, but that’s a whole other kettle of anthropomorphized fish.

Posted on August 22, 2012, in alpha asshole cock carousel, alpha males, bad boys, beta males, evo psych fairy tales, heartiste, MGTOW, misogyny, PUA, worst writing in the history of the universe and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 978 Comments.

  1. I’ve provided plenty of proof alphas exist. Alpha males are not a myth. Bye.

  2. NotMe, I challenge YOU.

    I am the Robert here. Please pick a different nym; even Robert2 would do. But if you’re going to stick around, we need a better way to tell us apart.

  3. @emilygoddess

    In case you didn’t know, this site you’re posting on and spreading this false information that alpha males are a myth, is a feminist website.

  4. But still want the door opened for them

    No. I am perfectly capable of opening a door for myself. If someone wants to open a door for me, I say thank you. I also open doors for other people quite often. Sometimes even for dudes.

    meals paid for on a date, of course (!)

    No. I always offer to pay for my own meal on a date. The only reason I ever don’t is when the man is insistent I don’t.

    and get on the life boat while the men stay behind cause there’s not enough space, etc etc etc.

    No. There need to be enough lifeboats for everyone.

    Signed,

    A feminist
    Is your head exploded yet?

  5. @ The fake Robert

    I’ll see your alpha male lions and raise you a clan of hyenas!

    Also, that Body Language University (lol) link has bullet points that make ‘alpha males’ sound like assholes, abusers, and rapists.

    For example:

    “He freely touches others in the group, without expressed or implied permission”
    and
    “He might intimidate by staring, or he could simply use the unnerving tactic to demand attention”
    or
    “He’ll unapologetically interrupt conversations or monologues.”

    Yeah, all of the red flags. ALL OF THEM. And it’s so full of so much debunked evo psych bull shit, none of which is cited, that it’s hard to believe it isn’t a parody.

    From the about page “Hi, my name is Tonya Reiman. I am the author of “The Power of Body Language” and a media expert. I am the featured body language expert on The O’Reilly Factor.”

    The O’Reilly Factor… That makes sense! Alpha males are like the tides! You can’t explain that!

    And that pdf you linked to?

    “Our results suggest that dominance hierarchy formation is a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought…”

    a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought
    a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought
    a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought

    You mean, like, it can’t be distilled down to ALPHA MALES?

  6. cassandrakitty

    Dear CheapKnockoffRobert – You are boring. You are also not an “alpha”, because they don’t exist. Even if they did, you wouldn’t be one, because you’re much too whiny and annoying. And also not a wolf. Now go make your own sandwich.

    No love,

    Feminism

  7. Alpha males are not a myth. Bye.

    Welp. I’m convinced. :rolleyes:

  8. tl;dr – a shorter fake Robert – Alphas are REAL cuz my fee fees tell me so (facts are misandry), how dare you break the dream!!!1!!1!

  9. cassandrakitty

    It’s OK, little FakeRobert buddy. You can listen to Winds of Change and whistle along with your lighter held aloft while pretending that feminism is the Berlin Wall if it makes you feel better.

  10. @grumpycatisagirl

    1. Lets not pretend that most woman in the western world don’t expect men to open doors for them on a date. Equality with all the female ‘privileges’.

    2. Have you ever insisted on paying for the date?

    3. Society expects men to sacrifice themselves if a situation arises where only one can live. If the man saves himself he’ll be seen with disdain from many and if the woman lives she’d be showered with sympathy and support.
    _______________________

    @fromafar2013

    So you agree alphas exist in lions?

    As for the .pdf.

    “Linear hierarchies, the classical pecking-order structures, are
    formed readily in both nature and the laboratory in a great range of species including humans.”

    “a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought”

    Simply means it’s not as simple as physically fighting and winning thereby becoming the leader.

    “You mean, like, it can’t be distilled down to ALPHA MALES?”

    You’re reading comprehension is not strong and your understanding of the term ‘alpha’ seems very limited to chest thumping.
    _______________________

    @cassandrakitty

    Resorting to personal attacks, I guess that means you’ve reached your intellectual ceiling.

    Much love,

    Robert

  11. cassandrakitty

    Keep the dream of future alphaness alive, little buddy!

  12. So, Not-Robert has stated both this:

    You feminists aren’t fooling people with your double standards and hypocrisy.

    And this:

    All people were not created equal.

    So, Not-Robert has accused feminists of talking about equality and not treating others as equals and expecting women to be treated better, for instance, having doors held open. This is bad of feminists. This makes them hypocrites.

    Then Not-Robert goes on to say not all people all equal.

    How sad that Not-Robert has to grasp at straws like this. How full of hate-rage Not-Robert must be.

  13. @OtherRobert:

    All people were not created equal. It’s that simple. All this feminist propaganda isn’t going to change millions of years of evolution. The feminist goal of destroying the alpha male amongst other aspects of socoiety is disgusting. And weak people latch on. Feminism, the new religion, thank you feminism, for without you, we wouldn’t have the Fat acceptance movement. Laugh. Feminists accept and respect a womans choice (!), unless it’s wanting to be a stay at home mom.

    @OtherRobert’sReadingOfThePaperOnCichlidFish:

    Linear hierarchies, the classical pecking-order structures, are
    formed readily in both nature and the laboratory in a great range of species including humans. However, the probability of getting linear structures by chance alone is quite low. In this paper we investigate the two hypotheses that are proposed most often to explain linear hierarchies: they are predetermined by differences in the attributes of animals, or they are produced by the dynamics of social interaction, i.e., they are self-organizing. We evaluate these hypotheses using cichlid fish as model animals, and although differences in attributes play a significant part, we find that social interaction is necessary for high proportions of groups with linear hierarchies. Our results suggest that dominance hierarchy forma-
    tion is a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought, and we explore the implications of these results for evolutionary biology, the social sciences, and the use of animal models in understanding human social organization

    @TheActualPaperOnCichlidFish:

    Linear structures should not be
    assumed to result simply from variation among individuals or
    from cumulative conflicts among pairs of individuals. Instead, to
    account for the common occurrence of linear hierarchies and
    provide more accurate accounts of how individuals acquire their
    ranks, we must look at patterns of interaction across whole
    groups and understand how these patterns produce hierarchy
    ladders. Even in dominance hierarchies among simple creatures,
    in which individual differences in raw physical power, aggression,
    and strategy might seem crucial, interaction processes are vital
    in providing the typical forms of social organization that we
    observe. Simply put, the formation of dominance hierarchies is
    a richer and more complex phenomenon than has been thought
    previously

    ie: “Alpha” is a meaningless term in dominance hierarchies in fish, because the expected hierarchies change a statistically meaningful amount of times (which means no One True Alpha Fish exists, but the state is fluid), which means that the process is a combination of social dynamics and individual characteristics, which apply even more when the process is applied to human beings, which you’ll find that the authors of the report also state at the very end.

    Also that more than merely 0 % of the time, a non-linear hierarchy developed. And what that does to the theory is profound in its implications.

  14. cassandrakitty

    OMG, there’s game for fish! Do they have their own Chateau Fartiste too? This totally proves that game works.

  15. 1. Lets not pretend that most woman in the western world don’t expect men to open doors for them on a date. Equality with all the female ‘privileges’.

    WTF. They’re just doors, dude. I can open them. Also “woman” is not the plural of “woman.”

    2. Have you ever insisted on paying for the date?

    Yes.

    3. Society expects men to sacrifice themselves if a situation arises where only one can live. If the man saves himself he’ll be seen with disdain from many and if the woman lives she’d be showered with sympathy and support.

    This is the least of the things wrong with your logic here, but society =/= feminism.

  16. You feminists aren’t fooling people with your double standards and hypocrisy.

    You’re not fooling anyone with your rank stupidity.

  17. 1. Lets not pretend that most woman in the western world don’t expect men to open doors for them on a date. Equality with all the female ‘privileges’.

    Citation needed. I find it incredibly awkward when people hold doors open for me. I also don’t understand how a social custom based on benevolent sexism is “female privilege.” Or that feminists are fighting to maintain the all-important “female privilege” of having doors held open for women, rather than reproductive rights or closing the gender wage gale or encouraging girls and women in the STEM fields or anything like that.

    2. Have you ever insisted on paying for the date?

    Yep. I just paid for my family’s meal this Tuesday. Your point?

    3. Society expects men to sacrifice themselves if a situation arises where only one can live. If the man saves himself he’ll be seen with disdain from many and if the woman lives she’d be showered with sympathy and support.

    Again, citation needed.

    Resorting to personal attacks, I guess that means you’ve reached your intellectual ceiling.

    Oh no, gumdrop, this is mocking. You’re sad little world-view is being torn down by people who are much smarter than you.

  18. cassandrakitty

    No no, we can’t open doors. You see, the door-opening gene lives on the Y chromosome, right in between the not listening to anything women say gene and the trolling feminist blogs when you feel sad and insecure gene.

  19. And Cool Robert, don’t worry. None of us could possibly confuse you with Not Cool Robert.

  20. @OtherRobert:

    3. Society expects men to sacrifice themselves if a situation arises where only one can live. If the man saves himself he’ll be seen with disdain from many and if the woman lives she’d be showered with sympathy and support.

    @OtherRobert’sLinkToSocialGroups:

    http://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/primate-sociality-and-social-systems-58068905

    The least gregarious primates have what is often referred to as a solitary dispersed social system. In these primates, an adult male’s territory overlaps the territory of one or more adult females, but each individual forages alone and maintains social contact mainly through vocal and/or olfactory communication. These primates are typically nocturnal, foraging at night and sleeping in trees during the day. The mating system in these primates is usually polygynous (i.e., each male mates with multiple females). This type of social system characterizes galagos, lorises, some lemurs, some tarsiers, and orangutans. Notably, orangutans are the only anthropoid primates with a solitary social system.

    Titi monkeys, owl monkeys, some callitrichids (marmosets and tamarins), and many hylobatids (gibbons and siamangs) are characterized by a pair-bonded social system. Here, one adult male and one adult female form a small social group and defend a territory from other pairs. The mating system in these groups is usually monogamous (only one male mates with only one female), though extra-pair copulations have been observed (Palombit 1994), and the male usually participates in offspring care, which is unusual for male mammals (Fuentes 2002).

    OH MY GOD, NOT ALL PRIMATES ARE THE SAME? The male usually participates in off-spring care, unusual for male mammals? Differentiated social organization models varying between classes of genus? I feel faint! I must be getting the vapors! Forsooth!

    Many marmosets and tamarins live in one-female multi-male groups characterized by cooperative breeding. In this type of system, usually only one female breeds, and that female suppresses the reproduction of any subordinate females via aggression and/or pheromonal (olfactory) signals. Usually there is more than one breeding male, thus the mating system is polyandrous, a rarity among mammals. Some or all of the individuals in these groups participate in offspring care and this social system is thus often called cooperative polyandry.

    Huh. I know several subsets of the internet dedicated to that topic and some very odd slash fiction.

    One of the most common primate social systems is the one-male group, which characterizes most colobine monkeys, most guenons, patas monkeys, howler monkeys, and some gorillas. Here, a single resident adult male defends a group of (usually) philopatric, related females from other males and, while his tenure lasts, enjoys exclusive mating access to those females (i.e., polygyny). Sometimes called harems, these groups are always at risk of takeover by non-resident males, who typically form all-male groups while awaiting their chance to become a resident male. Often, takeovers are accompanied by infanticide, in which the new resident male kills the young infants in the group. This behavior has the effect of bringing the mothers back into estrus (sexual receptivity) sooner than they would have otherwise.

    Yeah, that’s more like it. That’ll prove the thesis. Now I just gotta forget about the titi monkeys, owl monkeys, the marmosets, the tamarins, the gibbons and the siamangs.

    Also common among primates are multi-male multi-female groups, in which multiple individuals of each sex form large social groups in which the mating system is usually polygynandrous (i.e., both males and females are polygamous in that they mate with multiple members of the opposite sex). These are the largest groups of primates, and usually quite complex socially, with differentiated social and kin relationships among group members. This type of social system characterizes many monkeys, including macaques, most baboons, vervet monkeys, mangabeys, capuchins, squirrel monkeys, woolly monkeys, and some colobine monkeys, as well as some lemurs-most notably the ringtailed lemur and sifaka. In most of these species, females are philopatric and males disperse.

    Similar to multi-male multi-female groups are the fission-fusion communities of chimpanzees, bonobos, spider monkeys, and some other ateline monkeys. Fission-fusion communities are less cohesive than typical multi-male multi-female groups. These groups occupy very large home ranges in which temporary foraging parties cleave and coalesce over time with changes in resource availability and female reproductive condition. These social systems are typically characterized by female dispersal and male philopatry.

    The most complex type of social system found in primates, and in mammals as whole, is the multi-level society (also known as a hierarchical or modular society) characterizing hamadryas baboons (Figure 4), geladas, snub-nosed monkeys, and a few other mammals such as elephants. In this type of system, there are at least three levels of social structure: the one-male unit (OMU), the band, and the troop or herd. The OMU is the reproductive unit and consists of one “leader” male, sometimes a follower male, and several females; the band is the ecological unit that forages and sleeps together, and the troop or herd is a temporary aggregation at a sleeping site or foraging area. In hamadryas baboons, there is a fourth layer between the OMU and the band, the clan, which consists of OMUs and bachelor males linked by social bonds and possibly kinship among males. In geladas, bachelor males join together to form all-male groups. Reproduction in these societies is usually polygynous, and OMUs are always at risk of takeover by bachelor males, who may commit infanticide after taking over females with young infants.

    …. and the macagues, baboons, vervets, mangabeys, capuchins, squirrel monkeys, wooly monkeys, sifaka, ringtailed lemur and the colobine monkeys (Who are not from Colombine, interestingly enough).

    Moreover, one must be careful not to make assumptions about a species’ mating system simply upon observing its social system. For example, multi-male multi-female groups of gorillas may have an age-graded dominance structure in which only the oldest, highest-ranking (alpha) silverback male is allowed to copulate; in this case, the mating system is not polygynandrous (as one might expect in a multi-male group) but instead polygynous (Robbins 2011). Another example can be found in guenons, which live in one-male groups. During the mating season multi-male influxes occur in which outside males come into the group, copulate with the females, and then leave again (Cords 1988). The mating system in this case is not polygynous, which one would expect, but polygynandrous. Finally, gibbons and siamangs were first thought to be monogamous, but then observations of extra-pair mating (i.e., copulations with individuals outside of the pair-bond) confirmed that they are not always monogamous but sometimes polygynous, polyandrous, or both (Palombit 1994).

    Holy fuck this topic is complex and not at all a simple little “Feminists want to destroy alpha males which is why weak men flock to their debased religion!”.

    Didn’t even know we had geunons.

    Also those gibbons are right rat bastards

  21. 1. Lets not pretend that most woman in the western world don’t expect men to open doors for them on a date. Equality with all the female ‘privileges’.

    Let’s not pretend you wouldn’t complain just a much if a feminist told you “I don’t need you to hold that door for me, thanks”.

  22. Wait, Not-Robert’s ace-in-the-hole to prove that feminism is wrong; alpha males do exist, dammit(!); and that all people are not equal is a paper on the social hierarchies of cichlid fish.

    And the paper doesn’t say what he thinks it says, but exactly the opposite? That these hierarchies are fluid and based as much on social interactions as inborn characteristics? And that non-linear social hierarchies are possible?

    That is hilarious. That just kinda made my day.

  23. Oh, also.

    @OtherRobert:

    All people were not created equal. It’s that simple. All this feminist propaganda isn’t going to change millions of years of evolution. The feminist goal of destroying the alpha male amongst other aspects of socoiety is disgusting. And weak people latch on. Feminism, the new religion, thank you feminism, for without you, we wouldn’t have the Fat acceptance movement. Laugh. Feminists accept and respect a womans choice (!), unless it’s wanting to be a stay at home mom.

    http://thoughtcatalog.com/amy-glass/2014/01/i-look-down-on-young-women-with-husbands-and-kids-and-im-not-sorry/

    @FromThoughtCatalog:

    I hear women talk about how “hard” it is to raise kids and manage a household all the time. I never hear men talk about this. It’s because women secretly like to talk about how hard managing a household is so they don’t have to explain their lack of real accomplishments. Men don’t care to “manage a household.” They aren’t conditioned to think stupid things like that are “important.”

    Huh, interesting viewpoint, I guess… although.
    Wait.

    What’s this?

    @FromThoughtCatalog:

    Doing laundry will never be as important as being a doctor or an engineer or building a business. This word play is holding us back. TC mark

    Amy Glass’ identity and reasoning behind this article revealed here.

    Why would I want to know about the reasoning behind and identity of a person who seems perfectly willing to be obnoxious?

    Oh well, I guess I might learn something.

    Hi, I’m Amy Glass. I wrote this article [Ed.note: “I Look Down On…”, that is]

    Do you think I’m really ignorant now? A monster?

    The real story is that I used provocative language to start a conversation.

    After I published my article, Thought Catalog published seven responses criticizing the article and Amy Glass. It also published two pro-Glass responses as well as one that largely reserved judgment, but presented good arguments for both sides of Glass-gate.

    Do you know who solicited and formatted most of these articles? I did. They’re just as important as the original Glass article. Together, they create a conversation.

    This isn’t backtracking. This is intellect. It’s the ability to explore ideas from multiple perspectives. It’s understanding and promoting the power of dialogue. It’s real. It serves the same function as fiction, whose authors create characters with different values, and as college professors, who educate their students about multiple sides of an argument.

    I facilitated the resulting debate in a way that highlighted the diversity and complexity of realities that make up any singular idea.

    Not really learning anything here, other than fabulation and the fact that someone was being obnoxious to make a point, which doesn’t excuse the obnoxiousness but certainly does make the point. Even if I disagree.
    Which it turns out lots of other people did.

    And those responses were published on the very article you linked to, with links, from that same site. And this happened months ago.

    And yet, here we all are, someone is going: “Cichlids prove that alpha males exist and that feminists want to destroy them! Look at this feminist writing bad things about stay at home mothers! Here’s some stuff about primate social systems which completely prove my point in some way despite several social systems differing by miles and oceans and fucking planets from the point I was trying to make!”.

  24. I’m glad everyone came back an schooled the troll while I was on my lunch break.

    Hey AssholeRobert, my reading comprehension needs work? I’ve written and published biological research papers. The paper does not say what you think it says. Your confirmation bias is blinding.

  25. And the ‘alpha male lions’ line was a joke, which I guess must have went entirely over your head.

  26. You’re reading comprehension is not strong

    Ha ha.

  27. emilygoddess

    New Robert, why didn’t you address any of my points? Are you gonna tell me how feminism is a religion, or why you think women are a hivemind?

  28. Wait, is fake Robert saying feminists oppress fish???

  29. emilygoddess

    Let’s not pretend you wouldn’t complain just a much if a feminist told you “I don’t need you to hold that door for me, thanks”.

    Right?

  30. 1. Lets not pretend that most woman in the western world don’t expect men to open doors for them on a date. Equality with all the female ‘privileges’.

    a) no we don’t. ask us next time.
    b) Okay, i’ll open doors for you if i get paid more than you for the same occupation and education and i have a chance of suffering less violence by intimate partners and people like me represent me in government instead of people of your gender. sound fair?

  31. mmmmmmmmmm i’m groaning at totallyNOTrobert’s shtick on how we are not equal. when has that ever not been code for abledwhitecisman is the best and everyone else sucks?

  32. @EvoPsychDudebroRobert

    Sex is a social construct originating from the discourse of patriarchy. It does not exist as a binary beyond social context. You and your shitty science have no ground to stand on in regards to proving the existence of patriarchy or or the existence of intrasexual social hierarchy like the alpha/beta/whatever hierarchy.

  33. ALL HAIL THE ONE TRUE ROBERT!

  34. The One True Robert is Cool Robert! Beware of Not Cool Robert, who will bore you to death with his teal dear herd!

  35. Out of curiosity, does anyone even know where that “the divorce rate in California is 75%” stat even originates from? Because I did Google it as Not Cool Robert suggested, and I’m mostly getting the Web sites of California divorce attorneys who don’t say where they get their info from.

  36. Sooner or later it all comes down to “I’m better than everyone else.”

    I’m rating that flounce 3/10, but it’s already down to -1/10.

  37. Also, that Body Language University (lol) link has bullet points that make ‘alpha males’ sound like assholes, abusers, and rapists.

    Sounds about right. People who believe that humans have alpha males and being one is desirable are always assholes and they always are either abusers and rapists or apologists for them.

    Isn’t the point of the evo psych’s version of an alpha male that he gets to spread his genes by mating with many of the best females? By definition MGTOW can’t be alpha males because they aren’t mating with any females, right? Yet they talk about alpha males a lot.

    LOL at using thought catalog as a citation. That site is full of idiots. Using a shitty thought catalog article as evidence that feminism is bad is like using Justin Bieber as evidence that all Canadians are assholes.

  38. Thanks for the support, all. It is very reassuring.

  39. ” Using a shitty thought catalog article as evidence that feminism is bad is like using Justin Bieber as evidence that all Canadians are assholes.”

    As a Canadian that made me lol

  40. Robert (the twitty one): Body language university? really? This is your idea of a rebuttal citation?

    Lions don’t have alpha. There is no “top dog” there is one male per pride. Moreover people are socially gregarious; lions aren’t.

    Are there “boss” lionesses? Yes. How does this apply 1: to male lions? 2: to humans?

    Wow… you linked to the study this post was based on… to refute this post.

    So your “citations” make for three whiffs. Three pitches, three strikes.

    You’re out.

    In your second at bat: Our results suggest that dominance hierarchy formation is a much richer and more complex phenomenon than previously thought and we explore the implications of these results for evolutionary biology, the social sciences, and the use of animal models in understanding human social organization

    Pop-fly to first, out.

    Looks like you need to spend more time in the minors.

  41. Robert (the twitty one): You’re reading comprehension is not strong and your understanding of the term ‘alpha’ seems very limited to chest thumping.

    Dude…

    You’ve just defined any meaningful use of “alpha” out of existence.

    You see any dominance hieratchy as proof.

    Any example of non-alpha (esp. in re the context of the study mentioned in the OP, which negates the “Alpha-Wolf” model the MRA/MRM/PUA types tout as, “the way it is) you then say shows Alpha is real.

    You have a religious fervor. Got it.

    You need to believe in the mythical “Alpha”. Got it.

    You are a clueless, self-delusional idiot with zip for reading comprehension, the fallacious idea that someone else writing something you agree with makes it valid, and a need to pretend you are innately better than others.

    Got it.

    None of this is material to the facts at hand, and all your blather won’t save you from the unpleasant (for you) truths.

    1: People are not wolves.
    2: People have a complex social structure which doesn’t have a rigidly defined heirarchy (see the paper on fish for more detail on this, as it refures your claims about it).
    3: People are going to judge you on how you function in your society.

    I’m going to guess that number three is the real problem. You aren’t getting the deference you think you deserve, and you want to believe it’s because of “alpha”. So if you can learn the “tricks” which make you “alpha” you will get deference

    Ain’t

    Gonna

    Happen.

  42. While I do agree that Alpha males in the strictest sense of the word in humans does not exist. I do believe women do actually ride the ‘cock carousel’. I am in nightlife a lot, mostly because I am a musician. I notice it are almost always the same guys that leave the bars and clubs with girls. They do almost exclusively sleep with the most desirable men, being a musician doesn’t help, being rich doesn’t help, all that helps is being good looking as far as I see it from my surroundings.

  43. @MC2

    You know the vast majority of sex that happens in the world isn’t through meeting at clubs, right?

  44. Yes, that is what everyone says until they are in the presence of a true Alpha male. Their body gets flooded with hormones of which they have no control and they engage in one of two actions: Either they completely submit through subtle cues (eye darting or if eye contact is made for longer than a half of a second, a nod is quickly returned before removing their gaze), or they engage in forced power plays in an attempt to quell the flooding of hormones associated with submission.

    Males will ask forced questions. Questions which can be answered with simple observations. If they are present with a woman and the alpha male is in their area, the threatened male will instantly show affection to the woman in an attempt to show the alpha that that woman is his property. Little does the threatened male know is that the alpha wasn’t interested to begin with.

    You women will know it is the alpha because the minute you are in his presence, all your guards will have dropped. The assertive, take charge attitude you cling passionately to will disappear and you will be reminded of the purest expression of your femininity. If you are in a professional environment it will take all of your mental energy, while in the presence of the alpha, to maintain a professional aura. It will take the full usage of the frontal lobes to keep the limbic system and the inevitable lust for his manhood in check.

    You will do things for his attention. And when you finally get it you won’t know what to do with it. You will freeze. You might grin slightly. You will be aroused, and the alpha is instantly aware of it. He knows you are aroused and there is nothing you can do about it. If the alpha wanted to, he could gently take your hand and lead you wherever he wished, and you would gladly go.

    Just being in the presence of the man, frees you of every worry. Every anxiety is released and you experience what it is to be a real woman.

    But no… no, the alpha male is a myth.

  45. Damn! The Wargies missed one :(

  46. emilygoddess - MOD

    I found that one in the mod queue and let it through for the entertainment value. Someone is not a member of the reality-based community…

  47. It kind of reads like bad, soft-core erotica. I picture a title like ‘Alpha in the Boardroom’ or ‘Master of the Elementary School Parents Night’. You know, uninspired and overblown with lots of heavy breathing and grunting but no actual pay-off, and nothing resembling a plot or character development.

    Maybe someone would appreciate a chew toy, though! :)

  48. That was hilarious. I think jhonest has confused porn for real life and tried to cover up the fact that it’s his little fantasy by throwing out neuroscience words willy nilly.

    Of course this

    Either they completely submit through subtle cues (eye darting or if eye contact is made for longer than a half of a second, a nod is quickly returned before removing their gaze), or they engage in forced power plays in an attempt to quell the flooding of hormones associated with submission.

    is actually quite disturbing because it furthers the notion that a woman can consent with just her eyes. If he imagines himself as an alpha male, half a second of eye contact is interpreted as desire and he has his excuse to use force to get sex because that’s just what alphas do.

  49. BEHOLD THE ALPHA MALE!

    He is a being of such awesomeness that mere mortal minds cannot bear the full glory of his presence. All shall bow and quake before him when he enters a room! All women in the room will immediately strip naked and offer themselves to him! All men in the room will immediately lie down and expose their stomachs to show their submissiveness to him! The rain does not fall upon him and mosquitos dare not bite him! Daisies grow from his footsteps wherever he walks, and his droppings smell of sweet cinnamon buns!

    No, he is not a mythic creature but flesh and blood men who walk among us! Believe! Repent! Repent!

  50. all the +1s to sparky!

  51. Song of the Alpha

    Listen, my children, and heed my tale!
    Beware, beware of the Alpha Male!
    Of dominant stature, of looks beyond pale!
    Beware, beware of the Alpha Male!

    He strides with eyes glowing, he watches his prey.
    The hunt, the hunt of the Alpha Male!
    He’ll find a young maiden and steal her away!
    The hunt, the hunt of the Alpha Male!

    You may find him smarmy, draw back in disgust.
    Away, away from the Alpha Male!
    But he knows your hatred is really your lust.
    Away, away from the Alpha Male!

    He’ll ask of you questions, I’m not too sure why…
    The way, strange way of the Alpha Male!
    To goad the affection from another guy.
    The way, strange way of the Alpha Male!

    As soon as you’re near him, you’ll stutter and grin.
    The pow’r, the pow’r of the Alpha Male!
    And somehow he’ll cause you to turn feminine.
    The pow’r, the pow’r of the Alpha Male!

    Though a couple behaviors,
    Are products of lovers,
    And most of the others,
    Are running for cover…

    Take heed, my children, attend to this song.
    Beware, beware of the Alpha Male!
    You’ll find men who think they are him before long.
    Beware, beware of the Alpha Male!

  52. kirbywarp, that was a thing of beauty! *applause*

    Males will ask forced questions. Questions which can be answered with simple observations.

    Questions designed to test how receptive women are to weird fake-hypnotic patter.

    Just being in the presence of the man, frees you of every worry. Every anxiety is released and you experience what it is to be a real woman.

    I am in the presence of an NLP seduction pattern. I feel derisive. I feel gleeful. It will take the full usage of my frontal lobes to keep withering sarcasm in check.

    But no… no, the alpha male is a myth.

    Well, at least you admit it.

  53. I have nothing to add. You guys have covered everything.

  54. How strange that the experience of being a “real woman” is narrowly defined to be heterosexual attraction… Apparently every other aspect of being a woman and being a human being is outside the realm of “real” women.

  55. JHonest’s comment is completely true. Um hmm. The only way it could be more true if if zefrank narrated it.

    Behold the true alpha female:

  56. Yes, that is what everyone says until they are in the presence of a true Alpha male. Their body gets flooded with hormones of which they have no control and they engage in one of two actions: Either they completely submit through subtle cues (eye darting or if eye contact is made for longer than a half of a second, a nod is quickly returned before removing their gaze), or they engage in forced power plays in an attempt to quell the flooding of hormones associated with submission.

    Males will ask forced questions. Questions which can be answered with simple observations. If they are present with a woman and the alpha male is in their area, the threatened male will instantly show affection to the woman in an attempt to show the alpha that that woman is his property. Little does the threatened male know is that the alpha wasn’t interested to begin with.

    You women will know it is the alpha because the minute you are in his presence, all your guards will have dropped. The assertive, take charge attitude you cling passionately to will disappear and you will be reminded of the purest expression of your femininity. If you are in a professional environment it will take all of your mental energy, while in the presence of the alpha, to maintain a professional aura. It will take the full usage of the frontal lobes to keep the limbic system and the inevitable lust for his manhood in check.

    You will do things for his attention. And when you finally get it you won’t know what to do with it. You will freeze. You might grin slightly. You will be aroused, and the alpha is instantly aware of it. He knows you are aroused and there is nothing you can do about it. If the alpha wanted to, he could gently take your hand and lead you wherever he wished, and you would gladly go.

    Just being in the presence of the man, frees you of every worry. Every anxiety is released and you experience what it is to be a real woman.

    Translation: You are getting sleeeeeeepy. Your eyelids are falling. Soon, you will sex me upon command…

    But no… no, the alpha male is a myth.

    Nope, no sex for you, troll. That last bit there was actual truth, and truth always wakes me right the fuck up. No matter how many teal deer a liar throws across my path with his NLP bullshit spiel.

  57. Also, wtf are “forced questions”? Who or what “forces” them?

    Jeebus, in the idiotsphere, it’s like no one has free will or any autonomy at all!

  58. Huh.

    That was oddly revealing. Untill encountering an alpha male women are not real women? They exist in some insubstantial capacity, unnoticed and unreal, only attaining actual presence in reality once exposed to the guiding light of an alpha male?

    I guess I wasn’t expecting someone to straight up come out and that women have no right to exist without a male attachment, yet there you go.

  59. I have no male attachment, and yet I exist. I must be Schrödinger’s Woman.

  60. @Bina:

    So you do have a male attachment? :P

  61. I have met those d00dz from time to time. They hold eye contact a bit too long and hold you hand a bit too long when introduced. They are seriously creepy.

  62. Either they completely submit through subtle cues (eye darting or if eye contact is made for longer than a half of a second, a nod is quickly returned before removing their gaze),

    Aw, bless, he thinks that means women are overwhelmed by his manly alphaness rather than they’re desperately searching for an escape route.

    The rest of it was a bit letters to Penthouse forum, though. It’s a Mary Sue fanfiction starring himself, and just as awkward to read as those usually are.

  63. OMG! I had forgotten this is the opening doors thread.
    Here where I live in the Peoples Republic of the Puget Sound we all open doors for one another willy nilly. It irritates the bejeepers out of the self styled alpha males. You can tell by the expression on their sad face.

  64. Dude, you described a scenario in which you creeped a woman out. Been there.

  65. @ thebewilderness – those poor, poor dears would really hate it here in Canada, then! Mwhahahaha!

  66. I really want to see that now, because what can they say? “Stop being so polite and helpful”?

  67. I don’t care if this is a feminist site. That doesn’t mean this article is false. It makes sense that the ‘betas’ are the ‘alphas’ in that they are the dominant males. The beta description is that of a more intelligent person, whereas the ‘alpha’ is a mook, or a douche bag-type.

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