Patriactionary: Women who hit the age of 40 without a husband or kids deserve to be alone and miserable the rest of their lives.
Be careful, ladies, or you too will LOSE DICK FOREVER! Borrowed from Easily Mused. (Click the pic to see more crying chicks.)
Over on Patriactionary, a proudly reactionary and patriarchal Christian blog, the blogger who calls himself electricangel is angry at himself – for not being an even bigger douchebag than he already is.
You see, he’s just heard from his wife that one of her friends isn’t happy about hitting the big 4-0. Apparently, his wife’s friend
broke down in tears, sobbing uncontrollably. What had hit her was the realization that she was 40, with no husband, no children, no prospects of either, and she was staring at a future of loneliness.
His reaction to this news?
I wish I could tell you that an evil smile of vengeance crept across my face, and the children this woman discarded were getting their revenge upon her. That this was payback for riding the cock carousel for years, always aiming at the guys she wanted, not the guys she could get.
But alas, hidden deep inside in his tiny misogynistic heart there remains a tiny fragment of sympathy.
But I cannot tell you anything other than how saddened I was at her tale, and how this sadness will rip out the hearts of so many women who did not set out to become lonely, childless spinsters, but whose families and societies removed the strictures on their behavior so that their own lack of self-control was left unbounded. This will be the ongoing social disaster of coming years.
I did say it was a tiny fragment.
But he still wants to use this woman’s story for his own ends.
In discussing this woman, I am insistent upon her becoming an object lesson to my wife, and especially for my wife to tell the beautiful, smart, virgin young women close to her about what happens to carousel riders. Life is a coin you may spend any way you like, but you may only spend it once. This woman spent it on an amusement park ride. Now the park is closing, she has been thrown off the ride, and faces 45 years of solitude.
Yeah, because no woman over the age of 40 is capable of ever finding a date or a mate.
Yeah, because her sadness at hitting 40 is going to last for the rest of her life.
Oh, and the bit about “the children this woman discarded?” She didn’t “discard” any children. She simply didn’t have any. She’s not “discarding children” any more than those with penises instead of vaginas are “discarding children” each and every time they masturbate to orgasm.
In the comments, not everyone is quite so restrained as electricangel.
“I don’t even know this woman and I’m pissing myself laughing at her,” writes one commenter going by the name Friendzone. “Fuck her.”
Take The Red Pill is equally unsympathetic:
I have NO sympathy for this woman whatsoever. Just like most Modern Women, she bought into the feminist deception with eyes wide open with never a thought about the future. Well the future has arrived and it looks a lot like a cold, lonely one for her – just like the cold, lonely youth and young adulthood that MOST men have had and continue to have.
Karma has come due, and the bicycles have realized that they don’t need fish, either.
When women like her are young, they treat decent men abominably – being as cruel and sadistic as they can be when rejecting an ‘unwanted’ man’s advances – simultaneously, they enjoy being ‘free whores’ for every player, dirtbag, and Alpha thug who crosses their path; then when they reach their thirties and are little more than ugly, repellent, diseased trollops (often with some thug’s illegitimate spawn or two in tow), they complain about ‘the lack of good men’.
Others adopt Electricangel’s more, er, mature approach. Will S. decides to be a pompous dick about it, while patting himself on the back for his enlightened attitude:
Indeed, it is proper to not gloat, but rather mourn what we have lost, as a society, and feel sorry for those who have made poor decisions – and try to help others not make such poor decisions, by pointing to unfortunate examples, that at least others might learn something from them.
Sometimes, schadenfreude is tempting, but we Christians do generally know better than that.
Because patronizingly exploiting someone’s (probably temporary) sadness to make other people feel shitty about their own lives is such a moral thing to do. Is faux sympathy better than no sympathy at all?
Our friend Sunshinemary jumps on the “let this be a lesson to the rest of you sluts” bandwagon:
We need not mock such women, but we need to hold up their tales as cautionary examples to other young women. The older women themselves cannot face that their lives should serve as an example of what not to do, and they will rationalize it forever.
Electricangel expounds on his plan to use this woman’s apparent misfortune for his own ends:
I am using her as a vector to drop comments to my wife about the dangers of the carousel. Next is the overt suggestion that she talk to some young women about this friend specifically.
Uh, I guess you don’t let your wife read this blog, huh? Because if I discovered that someone close to me was talking about me in such a creepily manipulative and patronizing way, that person would no longer be a part of my life.
Electricangel replies to Sunshinemary:
Yes, those who did not prioritize children will have their genetic tendencies to that behavior removed from the gene pool. Women do not have the sexual options that men do, and not letting them know this early and often is crushing.
But they must be pointed to, and shown as examples. I understand people who will laugh at and mock them; I thought I would. It’s just the enormity of a waste of a life, and the lives she threw away, and the realization that this is just the tip of huge iceberg that has gripped me.
Yes, EA, you’re such a deeply moral person. Posting an “I told you so, you whores!” post on your blog is no doubt exactly the way The Lord would like you to handle this.
In a later comment, he reiterates his plan to use this woman’s story to increase the insecurities of his wife:
I do not feel guilty at all about using this woman’s example to drop pellets of manosphere logic on my wife. It has the side benefit of my wife starting to ask me (because she’s asking herself) “What do I do to bring value to the relatinship?” It is a good thing.
First it was a sad thing, now it’s a “good thing.”
How exactly is this better than gloating? No, scratch that. How is this different than gloating?
Posted on August 17, 2012, in alpha asshole cock carousel, antifeminism, gloating, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, patriarchy, reactionary bullshit, Uncategorized and tagged alpha asshole cock carousel, antifeminism, misogyny, patriarchy. Bookmark the permalink. 850 Comments.
@Wondering, you said “I can visit any feminist forum on the internet and read that you (as a man) get exactely the sexual attention you deserve, and if you get none, that is because you deserve to get none” and i SERIOUSLY DOUBT YOUR VERACITY because i don’t think any legit feminist forums talk about anyone “deserving” sexual attention.
Care to clarify what you’re “wondering” about?
As a feminist who runs a moderately popular feminist blog, I would like to say that I have known men who were virgins at 25 who are also some of the kindest, most interesting, and most attractive people I know.
Also, that there is no meaningful sense in which one can “deserve” sexual attention, any more than there’s a meaningful sense in which one can “deserve” friendship. There are many reasons why someone might not get much sexual attention. Sometimes it’s because they’re a creeper, true, but sometimes it’s because they’re introverted, or don’t have much time to look for someone to date, or just have a lot of bad luck, or a lot of reasons that don’t mean they’re a bad person.
OMG IT’S ALMOST AS IF THAT’S A STRAWMAN YOU’VE ERECTED TO IMPROVE YOUR SELF-PITY
I didn’t understand Wondering’s first “sentence” either…otherwise I only picked up some whining and straw. Did we shame virgins? Nope. But if someone thinks the universe owes them sexual partners because they have been living a martyr-like existence as a virgin (which isn’t the worst thing in the world), well, pfffffft.
But that whole, “It’s mean that a man be told he only gets the sexual attention he deserves,” whine. Errr, if you reverse the genders, you basically get every women’s magazine on the market. Ever look at a Cosmo? Women hear this message non-stop: “If men aren’t coming around, it’s your fault for being too fat, too agressive, too smart, not pretty enough.” It’s not right, is it?
Wondering, why don’t you link to these egregious examples of feminist thought you claim are out there?
I think I’m Cosmo’s ideal straw-lady….. heheh :D
When’s your flight NWO? And since you’ve said, repeatedly, that all women are whores, please tell me what country you’ve found that has non-whore women? And after that, why don’t you give me a link to the shop where your sisters and nieces by their Mennonite clothing?
It’s different in that internet harassment is not the same thing as actual, physical violence. Seriously. Having your feelings hurt by anonymous internet comments is not in the same category as being in an abusive relationship. At all.
However, one small similarity is that both are rooted in the bullshit system of patriarchy, in which all men are supposed to be violent dominant highly sexual succesful people, and women are supposed to be submissive, victimized, and silenced people. This is why you don’t see either happening in feminist spaces.
“It’s different in that internet harassment is not the same thing as actual, physical violence. Seriously. Having your feelings hurt by anonymous internet comments is not in the same category as being in an abusive relationship. At all.”
And where is this violence in any of the cases?
“However, one small similarity is that both are rooted in the bullshit system of patriarchy, in which all men are supposed to be violent dominant highly sexual succesful people, and women are supposed to be submissive, victimized, and silenced people. This is why you don’t see either happening in feminist spaces.”
It is, you say?
So when the shitredditsays crowd starts sling neck-beard loser around, this is an example of this?
The lady this ‘electricangel’ guy is babbling about sounds more like she’s hitting menopause than going bonkers over being a 40 year old single lady. Now this jerks going to use this to manipulate his wife. I hope his wife dumps his nasty butt.
Owly/[me]: A Constructive Dialogue
(my new one man show!)
Nice to see that Owlyslave has recovered from the humiliation of making fun of someone else’s intelligence by getting the concept of grammar completely wrong, and has returned to being completely wrong about everything else.
LOL! I know, right?
I did my undergrad major in English, but then I listened to all the people (parents, bosses, and professors, or “the people a bewildered 20-year-old with no real-world experience would most likely listen to”) who told me that no one could make a living as a writer and the professorial job market is oh so hard, so I went to law school. …And then the bottom fell out of the legal market (attorney-to-job ratio is currently 100:1; English PhDs-to-tenured-professorships ratio is 5:1), I found I hated being a lawyer, and I realized I was still pining for the day when I’d have my own freshman comp class. And I started making a living as a writer.
I’d say it was easy to see what I should do after I realized all that, but honestly, I funked around for a couple years anyway. Because I felt I was OMG TOO OLD to go back to school and change careers and OH NOES WHAT IF I HATE IT and so on. But that’s mostly past now, because it’s the only thing I desperately want and I won’t know how it’s done until I do it. Whee!
“OMG IT’S ALMOST AS IF THAT’S A STRAWMAN YOU’VE ERECTED TO IMPROVE YOUR SELF-PITY”
Self-pity? I am celibate by choice. Rather be alone than being someones fifth-hand choice when the competition for first-tier has turned too hard.
“But that whole, “It’s mean that a man be told he only gets the sexual attention he deserves,” whine. Errr, if you reverse the genders, you basically get every women’s magazine on the market. Ever look at a Cosmo? Women hear this message non-stop: “If men aren’t coming around, it’s your fault for being too fat, too agressive, too smart, not pretty enough.” It’s not right, is it?”
Funny that you are so obsessed with the straw-man fallacy when you use a logical fallacy of you own. Cosmo could for all I care be teaching the strangling of kittens. It doesn’t change the fact at hand.
@Wondering
Oops, I mixed up threads, I thought this was any of the other threads today about MRAS EXPLICITLY advocating violence against women. How do you feel about those MRAs, by the way?
For this article, obvioulsy wanted to constantly remind your wife that they would be sad and worthless qithout you is abuser-y as hell. Like, it’s still pretty fucked up, though, unlike other MRA stuff, it doesn’t actually advocate direct violence. So, if that’s the bar you want to set for your political movements, I guess I can’t stop you.
ShitRedditSays != major feminist blog or feminist-only space
ShitRedditSays = blog where people mock Reddit assholes.
Neckbeard != 25 year old virgin
Neckbeard = hateful overentitled people who prefer playing the victim on Reddit to actual human interaction
I for real would not be able to tell, without context, whether these guys are describing their fucked up views on human interaction, or Diablo III’s loot system.
Poor Wondering, only has a chance with Common women because his teamates picked up all the Epic women.
The heart, it bleeds.
Dani said “I listened to all the people … who told me that no one could make a living as a writer …And I started making a living as a writer.”
Is Steele seeing this?
Wait, you’re celibate by choice, but you’re angry people are telling you that you can’t get laid?
I… thought that’s what you wanted anyway?
(Also these people don’t exist and you can’t provide any link to them, but never even mind that.)
Wondering what Wondering’s point is besides GRR YOU CRITICIZING MISOGYNY MAKES ME ANGRY AT WOMEN!
“hellkell
If my husband wanted to talk to me about the cock carousel, I’d think he’d lost his mind. And if he tried to use that as a tool to keep me in my place, buh-bye.”
Why do you choose to hide your past? Scared he might judge you? You’re an empowered woman. No man should lose their mind when he meets a slut. Who cares about her slutty past, these are for fun not wife material. Why didn’t you tell him earlier in the relationship and give him a choice to discard you or keep you. Maybe you didn’t want to get dumped? LOL
“Oops, I mixed up threads, I thought this was any of the other threads today about MRAS EXPLICITLY advocating violence against women. How do you feel about those MRAs, by the way?”
1) You seem to be under the impression that I am an MRA, I am not. I am just sick and tired of young women preaching solidarity that ends 1 attometer outside of their vagina and their wallet. Somehow randian market economy is the optimal pricing mechanism for the meat market, but nowhere else.
2) I think that if those MRAs want to tough-talk on the internet, then they can go ahead. If they do things in real life that is a felony and should be prosecuted.
“I for real would not be able to tell, without context, whether these guys are describing their fucked up views on human interaction, or Diablo III’s loot system.”
Yes, because you have never ever heard women lamenting being single and then when suggesting they try the pool of always single men, being told that they don’t want those losers, those loser men have to be single for a reason.
After a couple of itterations of that jargon one starts to get tired of the BS and starts to decide that fine, be single then but don’t come complaining when the first-tier men give you the same treatment that you give to second and third-tier men.
No, DYOR, the joke is that the “cock carousel” isn’t a thing, because sadly no amusement park on Earth is that awesome yet.
“Having sex with more than one man” is a thing, but frankly, men should be goddamn grateful for it, because it’s the only plausible way that straight men are going to get laid with more than one woman.
Do you really want to be stuck for life with the first woman you sleep with? No? Then don’t expect women to be stuck for life with their first man.
Look, wondering, I can’t explain the imaginary women in your head to you. They sound very mean.
Maybe it’s the high from my recent marriage talking, but reading this gives me sadface. Choosing to be celibate is equally cool as choosing not to be, but the massive side order of bitterness you’re nursing along with it must suck to live with.
SpukiKitty, nope, crying because you turn 40 is not a symptom of menopause. Not in the slightest. (Which happens at an average age of 51 in the US, not at 40.)
If someone is crying, it’s because they have a reason to be upset, not because their hormones are doing some different stuff than what they did last year.
“Wait, you’re celibate by choice, but you’re angry people are telling you that you can’t get laid?”
No I am pissed off that I am supposed to feel sorry for older women that are outcompeted from the meat market, but somehow at the same time I am supposed to handle my own non-existant market value gracefully.
It doesn’t work this way.
If they want to play hard-ball market economy then play it all the way. Shut up with the entitlement when you yourself are outcompeted.
“(Also these people don’t exist and you can’t provide any link to them, but never even mind that.)
”
So when Amanda Marcotte gives out dating tips that sums up to “You are worthless, that is why you can’t get laid” this is a hallucination?
“Wondering what Wondering’s point is besides GRR YOU CRITICIZING MISOGYNY MAKES ME ANGRY AT WOMEN!”
I have juxtaposed two similar statements and asked why one is problematic but the other one isn’t.
Okay, can anyone parse this for me? I’m not sure whether “meat market” is literal or metaphorical, so I can’t tell whether he’s complaining that feminists are capitalists when it comes to goods and services but not to sex, or that feminists are capitalists when it comes to sex but not when it comes to goods and services.
… Actually, I guess it doesn’t matter, since either interpretation is a hilarious and baffling account of what feminists say.
I’ve told Steele that, in so many words, more than once. So far, he’s continued to insist on blaming one teacher from his past rather than, you know, writing.
I’m starting to suspect that Steele isn’t interested in being a writer so much as being a victim. / understatement
Not a hallucination, no. There’s another word for when you radically and woefully misunderstand the message behind something. (Also, protip: Paraphrasing what someone says in an obviously biased way isn’t the same thing as offering proof.)
Do you have a link to this? Just wondering.
Off the top of my head:
* The OP is about 40 women rather than 25 year old men.
* The people quoted in the OP take delight in the idea that women who don’t conform to traditional gender roles suffer because of it.
* Misogyny is systematic and its existence is well-established whereas your “any fora” assertion is both sweeping and unevidenced.
* The OP is about women rather than men.
* The OP has actual quotes whereas you have a strawman of what feminists say.
* You actually don’t deserve sexual attention that people don’t want to give you, but no one deserves to suffer just because they didn’t get married and have children.
* Feminists don’t take delight in your anxiety over not getting laid, they just think the idea that you’re entitled to sex is stupid and misogynistic.
“Okay, can anyone parse this for me? I’m not sure whether “meat market” is literal or metaphorical, so I can’t tell whether he’s complaining that feminists are capitalists when it comes to goods and services but not to sex, or that feminists are capitalists when it comes to sex but not when it comes to goods and services.”
It is very simple if one is actually interested in the text being read.
Why is it that unleashed market forces, that is supply and demand are deemed to effect the optimal price on the sexual market but nowhere else.
So you’re not an MRA, you just hate young women. I hope you realize that the problem with MRAs isn’t the name. It’s the misogyny.
There is no “pricing mechanism” for human social interaction. Some people connect with people. Some of these connections lead to sex. This is not a video game. It does not follow any consistent set of rules.
Lynching is a felony too. That doesn’t make it okay when KKK members say it’s a good idea.
No, it’s because what you describe is more similar to d3’s loot system that to actual thousands of human interactions.
When you talk to women, do you roll Charisma-adjusted THAC0 against their Assertiveness Class?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?
What the hell are you talking about? Who decides these tiers? Does your tier change the font color your name shows up in?
And yes, if you don’t want a woman to dump on you, tell her you’re uncomfortable. You don’t have to fantasize about her getting poor loot drops from the Life AI.
Since when are Randian economics even a thing? I’m pretty sure Atlas Shrugged didn’t contain an in-depth academic update to common economic graph calculations.
Oh, I can answer this! “Unleashed market forces” don’t affect the optimal price on the sexual market, because there is no such thing as a sexual market.
Hope that cleared things up!
Do you have a link to this? Just wondering.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/nice-guys-finish-first-without-pickup-gimmickry/
You have this backwards. Supply/demand is the basis of all modern economic formulas, while “people liking people they like” is the basis of romance. Other than misogynists, pretty much nobody has ever said that supply/demand is the optimal basis of romance.
Please note that “Wanting to only have sex with people you like” is not actually rooted in free market economics.
In other words, GRR YOU CRITICIZING MISOGYNY MAKES ME ANGRY AT WOMEN!
Dude, 90% of this exchange is taking place between you and a straw feminist in your head. No one here thinks that the choice of who to have romantic/sexual relationships with is in any way comparable to market economics.
Yeah, I can definitely understand how you read “Treat women like people; put the same work into yourself that you’d expect of a prospective sexual partner; try to develop confidence” as “You’re worthless if you don’t get laid.” I can understand this because you are obviously not very smart.
@DYOR:
““hellkell
If my husband wanted to talk to me about the cock carousel, I’d think he’d lost his mind. And if he tried to use that as a tool to keep me in my place, buh-bye.”
Why do you choose to hide your past? Scared he might judge you? You’re an empowered woman. No man should lose their mind when he meets a slut. Who cares about her slutty past, these are for fun not wife material. Why didn’t you tell him earlier in the relationship and give him a choice to discard you or keep you. Maybe you didn’t want to get dumped? LOL”
Okay, this is just confusing. Where did Hellkell write that she tries to hide her past?
My husband knows that I’ve slept with lots of people before him. It’s no secret, it’s nothing I’m “hiding”. But if he started saying things like “you rode the cock carousel before marrying me!”, yeah, I’d thought he’d lost his mind, or was making some kind of joke.
@Wondering
The article you linked was “men can have sex by being themselves, and don’t have to learn how to manipulate women from internet misogynists.” Do you disagree with that?
There is no sentence saying that men who don’t have sex are bad in any way.
See, this is why links are good, Wondering! Because when we see the link we can tell exactly how full of shit you are when you say stuff like:
and the answer would be yes, that is indeed a hallucination on your part!
Amanda Marcotte: “You have more fun when your friends are having fun, right? Apply the same attitude towards dating, and you’ll become immediately hotter.”
Through the Wondering filter: “I HATE YOUR PENIS AND I HOPE YOU DIE FROM LACK OF SEX BECAUSE YOU ARE A DIRTY MAN CREATURE, NOW I WILL GO HAVE SEX WITH ALL THE GUYS WHO BEAT YOU UP IN HIGH SCHOOL, MWAHAHAHA.”
@katz:
I almost completed an art minor. The art history is boring. “Here’s a dead white guy. Here’s another dead white guy. Here’s the 37th painting of the Crucifixion that we’ve seen this semester. Just for variety, here’s a dead white gal.”
Maybe it was my program, but I saw more art by dead brown people when I spent a few hours in the Smithsonian than I did in college. Of course, I found the architectural achievements of dead white people a lot more awe-inspiring than their paintings.
The oil painting was great. I am informed that glass-blowing is dangerous and sweaty, but fulfilling. Clay is sloppy. Life drawing involves less being embarrassingly excited around nude people than I was afraid of.
I couldn’t ever balance a chemical equation.
So…we need safety regulations for dating and sex now? Antitrust laws? Intellectual – erm, sexual – property protections? What?
/ facetious
Seriously, I’m confused about why you think pure supply-and-demand applies in the “sexual market” even on your own terms. If supply and demand were the only rule in play, the “value” of single heterosexual men in the eyes of single heterosexual women would depend solely on the number of single heterosexual men in existence, not on factors like their age and/or prior sexual experience(s). Yet those are precisely the factors you’re decrying – not only for existing, but for being substantial barriers to (your) dating life.
Your argument lacks internal logic. (Also external logic, but let’s start simple.)
“So you’re not an MRA, you just hate young women. I hope you realize that the problem with MRAs isn’t the name. It’s the misogyny.”
I don’t hate young women. Is it impossible for you to parse that one can be critical of an action, without being critical of the actor?
“There is no “pricing mechanism” for human social interaction. Some people connect with people. Some of these connections lead to sex. This is not a video game. It does not follow any consistent set of rules.”
There is indeed a pricing mechanism for social interaction. This manifests itself in how much am I willing to pay of my time/relations/possesions/alternatives to spend time with this person.
“Lynching is a felony too. That doesn’t make it okay when KKK members say it’s a good idea.”
This makes no sense. It is not criminal to write stupid things.
“When you talk to women, do you roll Charisma-adjusted THAC0 against their Assertiveness Class?
Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?”
Let me guess. You have had plenty of sexual encounters, you are fairly popular with people? Lots of friends?
Try being told that you are just a porn-abusing basement troll a couple of hundred times first.
“What the hell are you talking about? Who decides these tiers? Does your tier change the font color your name shows up in?”
So, why is it that Tom Cruise or Brad Pitt can walk from woman to woman, as an illustration. There is indeed some men who are much much more attractive than others.
“And yes, if you don’t want a woman to dump on you, tell her you’re uncomfortable. You don’t have to fantasize about her getting poor loot drops from the Life AI.”
I have a simpler solution. I don’t waste any of time on them. Now if they could only stop demanding sympathy when they are subjected to the very same things that they subject others to.
“Unleash your market forces, baby” is not actually a good pick up line, Wondering. That may be your problem with the “first tiers.”
@Dani
What you’re missing about W’s theory is that people have intrinsic tiers, set by the game engine based on how many heroes are in your party and the difficulty you’re playing on. If you take your sexual partner back to town, you can sell them to the blacksmith for an amount based on their tier. Thus, one Legendary man is more valubale to a group of female adventurers than three Uncommon men.
Makes perfect sense, it you live in the World of Warcraft.
So, when’s the troll-splosion gonna happen for this one?
Actually, that’s not at all what you did, but I’ll address the problematicity of both points:
1. No, you aren’t horribly flawed if you’re a virgin at 25, so when someone says so it’s a pretty ignorant and mean thing to say. Maybe such a person, like myself (a virgin at 24), is simply shy an introverted. I doubt you’ll find women saying such things on literally every internet forum, however. In your case, though, I’d say your generalized anger at women is a personality flaw, and you should really work on it before trying out a romantic relationship. Women can probably tell if you’re some frothing misogynist, and I’m gonna go out on a limb and say they don’t like that.
2. The second example is not problematic because you don’t deserve sexual attention that people don’t want to give to you. I would disagree with the phrasing that a lack of sexual attention means you deserve none. However, I doubt anyone has said that to you.
My favorite bit of this is that Ayn Rand explicitly argues in Atlas Shrugged that, when it comes to love and sex, people seek out their own highest versions of themselves, for good or bad. Thus folks who don’t value themselves very much end up with partners who don’t value themselves, and people who value themselves highly end up with partners who value themselves highly.
(I should point out that for Rand, “self-value” is based on what one has actually accomplished, versus what one can talk up about oneself. Thus folks whose accomplishments stand on their own have high self-value and wind up with similar partners, while folks who talk a good game but inside have a deep sense of inferiority and know it’s all puff end up with similarly inferior-feeling folks. And folks who are all “it’s no use, I have nothing to contribute to the world that anybody would want ever, I’ma die alone” …end up alone.)
@Wondering:
“Do you have a link to this? Just wondering.
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/nice-guys-finish-first-without-pickup-gimmickry/”
I just read the article. This is basically what she says: She thinks PUA culture is toxic and misogynistic. So she comes up with some advice that she thinks is better, non-toxic and non-misogynistic.
She does NOT say that the only reason that people can’t get laid is that they’re toxic or misogynistic. She simply thinks that you’re likely to end up that way if you get immersed in PUA culture, and that this won’t actually help your prospects.
Giving advice to people who have trouble getting dates or getting laid only makes sense if you assume that at least some people with these problems have them because they don’t know how to behave. If you thought that all people in unwanted celibacy were “worthless”, why on Earth would you try to give them dating advice?
No one is demanding sympathy from you. We’d really rather you just go away.
I hate murder not the murderer I hate gay sex not gay people! Sounds funny? These things are linked because its one group doing one action. Insisting they are not just sounds odd because actions are a part of humans. You can’t really ignore the fact that a person is behind those actions.
Wait, I think I’ve figured it out! Men are in different tiers because they are all actually made of cake. There are also different tiers of women because they are part of another cake. This theory doesn’t quite explain why the first tier is the more desirable part of the cake but I’m working on it.
Also constantly rambling about the “meat market” isn’t going to get you dates dude.
…not going to engage with Wondering, instead I will FEELINGSCOMMENT…
When you hit a milestone in life you are often brought up short by how much reality and your expectations do not match. So if you hoped to be in a relationship and have kids by x age and you don’t that is hardly unusual. I am not 40 (yet, though I’m steadily inching towards it), but I am trying to come to terms with the fact that I will probably never have the career I wanted and I’m pretty sad and angry about that. And I DO have a partner and babby, thankyouverymuchMRAsshole, and I STILL am trying to decide between different career directions that all involve about 10 years of exhausting slog. So fuck you very much, Patriactionary, for taking this lady’s personal struggles and using it as creepy blog fodder/a stick with which to metaphorically beat your wife.
For the same reason the curl on the top of a soft-serve ice cream cone is the best part! Which is…um…. Wait, I know this.
@snowy :o
You have solved the mystery mon ami! Let us celebrate by eating the first tier of cakes but not the nasty 5th because um we are nasty feminists?
You can go to town on the first tier, when the excitement of having cake is fresh, and your appetite at its peak. But then the excitement wears off, you get used to the taste, and the prospect of eating your way down to the third tier becomes more of an obligation than a treat.
Dani Alexis – I am tired of trolls for the moment so I will totally agree. I think it’s because it’s so airy, and also it’s what you eat first so it’s coldest.
I used to work at a McDonald’s and always tried to put super huge and fancy curls on top of the cones, because I am nothing if not a giving person.
FEMINISTS NEVER GIVE THE 5TH LAYER OF CAKE A CHANCE!!
Yep. Hello. That’s me.
With 2 decades of hindsight, I’ve come to realize that my “problem” really isn’t a problem. I’m not too much of a “Nice Guy”. I’m not “unfuckable” or “unloveable”. I’m probably not even all that creepy or awkward.
(Oh and hey, and extra-big “Fuck You” to all the “moderate” MRAs for that particular chunk of self-doubt. Once I started listening to actual feminists describing the creepy behaviour of assholes, I realized that all my internalized worry was coming from said assholes conflating “I looked at an attractive woman for 5 seconds” with “I stared at her tits for five minutes like a dog watching an unattended steak”)
When it comes right down to it, my only real “problem” is that I’m an introvert. I’m a wallflower in a crowd, I have great difficulty getting involved with new social groups, and I’m lousy at just “hanging out”. I’m content with that part of me. I’ve just had to accept that lifestyle wasn’t easily compatible with meeting people and maintaining a relationship, and ignore the cultural propaganda that meeting and mating are the hallmarks of a successful life.
So wondering is nonsensetroll, I’m sad to say it but I kind of want pell back, pell was fun to mess with, wondering just has no substance.
THE CAKE MARKET IS TOO HARSH OUT THERE GUYS.
BELIEVING THAT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SHARE THE SAME NEGATIVE PERSONALITY TRAITS BASED ON THEIR AGE AND GENITALIA IS HATING WOMEN.
You are a sad, strange little man, and you have my pity. Do you keep a timesheet of the time you spend with friends and family? Opportunity cost calculations? Has it occurred to you that you can actually enjoy your life?
Noone said it was. What we did say was that writing about how domestic violence should be more common is a pretty shitty thing to do.
I’ve had enough, of both. I also have severe diagnosed social anxiety and write about social studies and video games for a living. In high school my main social outlet was a Settlers of Catan club.
So, I have been called a loser, a basement troll, etc, a lot. It wasn’t great. But it also wasn’t the worst thing in the entire world.
And I’m an adult now, and anyone who doesn’t like me for who I am gets ignored. As it turns out, none of my friends or partners have had a problem with any of this.
Gandhi managed to go from one marriage into another, and he was like 1/3rd the size. I have a severley overweight friend who’s had more relationships than I have. It’s actually not a superpower to have relationships with several women.
Also, as an example, my partner hates Tom Cruise, and wouldn’t sleep with him. But she sleeps with me. Does that make me a higher tier than Tom Cruise? Do you see how absurd it is to try to apply objective rules to a subjective system?
Okay… Wondering, if the only thing you actually want is to not feel sympathy for women, I think you’ve already got that.
So, yay! You’re totally fulfilled! Be happy!
“…Other than misogynists, pretty much nobody has ever said that supply/demand is the optimal basis of romance.”
Rubbish, a corner-stone of free market economy is that everyone is free to buy at a given price or decline. This is exactley what “Right to preference” is. If I don’t find you attractive, then I have the right to decline and I don’t have to give any reason just as I don’t have to give any reason why I don’t want to buy a goods at the given prize.
“Please note that “Wanting to only have sex with people you like” is not actually rooted in free market economics.”
But it is. It is precisely what “right to preference” is.
“Amanda Marcotte: “You have more fun when your friends are having fun, right? Apply the same attitude towards dating, and you’ll become immediately hotter.””
And on the second page, where every single tip is Change, this is what? Support? Help?
“So…we need safety regulations for dating and sex now? Antitrust laws? Intellectual – erm, sexual – property protections? What?”
And this I have demanded where? What I asked was simple. For women to start accepting being out-competed of the market the same way they demand that men are to accept being out-competed.
“Seriously, I’m confused about why you think pure supply-and-demand applies in the “sexual market” even on your own terms. If supply and demand were the only rule in play, the “value” of single heterosexual men in the eyes of single heterosexual women would depend solely on the number of single heterosexual men in existence, not on factors like their age and/or prior sexual experience(s)”
This is because you are taking supply and demand at face value. Supply and demand is simply that everyone is free to sell at any price and everyone is free to decline at the offered price. This is the very same “right to preference” that is so very important.
“What you’re missing about W’s theory is that people have intrinsic tiers, set by the game engine based on how many heroes are in your party and the difficulty you’re playing on. If you take your sexual partner back to town, you can sell them to the blacksmith for an amount based on their tier. Thus, one Legendary man is more valubale to a group of female adventurers than three Uncommon men.
Makes perfect sense, it you live in the World of Warcraft.”
Yes, I understand that a straw-man is much simpler than discusing the factualities.
“If you thought that all people in unwanted celibacy were “worthless”, why on Earth would you try to give them dating advice?”
Because Amanda can now lean back, and say “See, I helped you with your problems, now can we focus on what is important” alternatively that she can pat herself on the back about how great she is and what a lovely person she is.
Wondering: Self-pity? I am celibate by choice. Rather be alone than being someones fifth-hand choice when the competition for first-tier has turned too hard.
Right there, Exhibit A in the Self-Pity Sweepstakes. No thought that someone might find you to be First Tier after discovering the rest weren’t what they were looking for.
Nope. It’s only after, “the good one’s” get rejected/reject her that you will be looked at.
That’s some pretty good self-pity. It’s not the best, but you might be able to score a Bronze at the Self-Denigration Games if you train a bit more.
So when Amanda Marcotte gives out dating tips that sums up to “You are worthless, that is why you can’t get laid” this is a hallucination?
Where did she say this? Because I suspect that were any such advice the gist of what was said, there was context.
I find this whole “sex and relationships” = “the Market” a bit sad really. There are such things as human interactions outside the paradigm of a market. I mean, do you really think of women as commodities that you can purchase if you pay a high enough price (excepting prostitution)? I mean, where in that scenario is love, companionship, etc?
The other reason the analogy doesn’t work is because there’s no equivalent of a trades union for women who all club together to keep up the “price” of “pussy”. Hence why the MRA nonsense about the “pussy cartel” is just that.
(In terms of a model to understand dating, etc, I can see it in a evopscyh sense (whether or not it makes it valid is another question, but I can see it if you know what i mean), but actively thinking it when going out to try and get a date? Really?)
God, there are some geniuses in that comment section: In my opinion, the female concern for PUAs is that they (females) can not discern them (PUAs) from true Alphas until it it too late (they have devalued their beds).
It’s amazing how convinced they are that women think Alphas are a thing. The whole PUA thing is such blatant projection of their own social status issues. I wish they’d go and growl and beat their chests at the perceived Alphas directly, and leave women out of it.