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Ferdinand Bardamu: “Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.”

We talked a bit yesterday about pick-up artists and domestic violence – specifically, Heartiste’s suggestion that aspiring alpha males look to Chris Brown as a role model. So today I thought I would take the opportunity to write about one of the skeeviest and most notorious posts the manosphere has generated thus far – Ferdinand Bardamu’s “The Necessity of Domestic Violence.”

Bardamu took down his blog In Mala Fide some months back – I found the text of his post up on Manosphere Copies, a blog set up by the even skeevier MRA who goes by the name Jeremiah (aka JeremiahMRA, aka Things Are Bad) to host posts from manosphere blogs that are no more. In Mala Fide, which combined elements of PUA, Men’s Rights activism and “Human Biological Diversity” style racism, had a great deal of influence in the manosphere in its day. Bardamu published reprehensible things  with regularity – see here, here and here for examples – so his defense of domestic violence is hardly unexpected.

The post is a sprawling, disorderly mess. Much of it is devoted to telling the allegedly true story of the time Bardamu “smacked [a girlfriend] across the face” – and was, he says, rewarded for this bit of alpha behavior with what he describes as “the most intense make-up sex I’ve ever had in my life,” sex so intense it literally broke his bed. Allegedly.

The rest of the post is devoted to a rather convoluted – sometimes frank, sometimes weasel-worded – apologia for domestic violence.

He starts off by suggesting that those concerned with violence against women are hypocrites who aren’t truly feminist:

I have absolutely zero sympathy for women who are the victims of domestic violence, for a multitude of reasons. … If women have all the same rights and responsibilities as men, if denying privileges to someone because of the shape of their genitals is morally wrong, then that means there’s nothing wrong with bashing a woman’s face in — or, more accurately, it’s no more wrong than bashing a man’s face in.

Uh, there’s a lot wrong with bashing anyone’s face in, except in self-defense.

Then he argues – well, asserts – that women who are abused bring this abuse upon themselves. First, by deliberately choosing to be with abusers:

Women are masters of refusing to accept the consequences of their own behavior. Girls who habitually end up in relationships with abusive men do so because they are attracted to men who abuse them. … If you paid attention, you could have seen signs that your man was an abuser, but you ignored them because unconsciously, that’s what turns you on, what gets you wet.

And second, by egging them on:

I have no sympathy for most abused women because a great many of them deliberately incite their men into attacking them, if not by being physically abusive themselves, then by creating drama. Extreme cases of this are diagnosed as borderline personality disorder, but a great percentage of the normal female population engages in this behavior as a matter of course.

Still, despite this, and despite his own proud confession of abuse, Bardamu doesn’t advocate domestic violence explicitly – if only because it might get his readers arrested.

Despite all this, I do NOT recommend you start hitting the girls in your rotation, mainly because the risks are too great. For every one girl who’ll pounce on your dick after a good backhand, there are three more who’ll dial 911 without a second thought. I got lucky. But unless you exclusively fuck single moms, cougars and spinsters, you’ve likely had girls either try to physically hurt you or bait you into hitting them.

After a brief defense of corporal punishment for children, Bardamu suggests that similar “discipline” can help to keep girlfriends in line:

Slapping a girl across the face isn’t just about hurting her, it’s a kind of neg. It says, “I can crush you like an insect, but you aren’t worth the effort.” It’s a tacit acknowledgment that she’s weaker than you, beneath you, and if she crosses you again, you’ll put her in the hospital. You treat her like she’s a child throwing a temper tantrum, not an equal.

And then we come to the money quote:

Like I said already, you should NOT hit women, not unless you want to end up in jail. But the principle still stands. Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.

Let me repeat that last sentence for emphasis:

Women should be terrorized by their men; it’s the only thing that makes them behave better than chimps.

He ends by suggesting that “far too many” female victims of domestic violence are

conniving, manipulative cunts who wear their men down for the gina tingles, then trick bystanders into squirting tears to their sob stories. They are slapped, punched, and kicked because they inflict emotional violence on their husbands and boyfriends, fueling a never-ending cycle of drama and pain. They are just as abusive and twisted as the thugs and jerks they get wet for.

They deserve each other.

No, Ferdinand, no one deserves you.

In the comments, JeremiahMRA manages to do Bardamu one better – by which I mean one worse.

The truth is that sometimes it’s best for a man to hit his woman to get her to behave, just like Sean Connery said. There are two main problems today: 1) Society has taught men to be ashamed for disciplining their women, and 2) Men with guns are always at the ready to take men away who dare discipline their women. So the actual effect of this is that women have become more abusive, more controlling, more crazy in relationships, because few men are willing to lay down the law with them. So they keep going on in their lives, entitled, never being called on their bullshit, never being disciplined like they need to be. Just as you must discipline a child, you must sometimes discipline a woman. When a man is not able to discipline his child, the child misbehaves, he loses control of the household, and he is not respected. The same happens when a man is not able to discipline his woman. Instead of just giving her a slap when she’s being ridiculous, you have to play fucking mind games nowadays, and they are never as effective. You have to remain the alpha male if you want her to respect you, and it is a pain in the ass to do that when you can’t smack her even when she KNOWS she’s being ridiculous. Just another example of politically correct “progressive” bullshit ruining the relationship between men and women and replacing the man as head of household with government intrusion into our lives.

Tomorrow, I will take a look at one of Bardamu’s unexpected defenders on Reddit.

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Posted on August 15, 2012, in alpha males, antifeminism, creepy, domestic violence, evil women, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, patriarchy, PUA, reactionary bullshit, the c-word and tagged , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 149 Comments.

  1. @thebewilderness: Hugs for you for your upbringing.

  2. The whole thing was vile, but I wondered about this little nuggest:

    “But unless you exclusively fuck single moms, cougars and spinsters, you’ve likely had girls either try to physically hurt you or bait you into hitting them.”

    There’s so much to analyze here, but it’s giving me a headache. His weird outlook on women is…well, too inhumane to understand I guess. Why does he think “spinsters” and moms wouldn’t defend themselves against violence? Where is he getting this?
    Fuck, he’s a shit lord for just using the word “spinster,” as far as I’m concerned.
    He also talks about “girls” who have allegedly tried to physically harm him. If anything he posted is true…..why would he be surprised if someone tried to hit him back?

    Know what, he’s too fucked to analyze while sober.

  3. but making her feel “terrorized” in an attempt to control her behavior is ABUSE in the purest sense of the word.

    I doubt that Ferdie even comes out of his basement much and in real life wouldn’t say boo to a mouse so I’d ignore his bullshit fantasies.
    And he was probably pounding his blowup doll, the poor man’s “sexbot” when his bed collapsed.

  4. Falconer, either he’s playing into the moms spinsters or cougars being so desperate for a man they won’t dare displease them because financial dependance or too ugly for other men to fuck or he’s playing into these groups of women are just so pliant and eager to please because their more nuturing (because momlike).

    Either way, I got that he simply has other ways to manipulate.

  5. Funny how quick some people are to discount how abusive a person is when that person tells them outright how they operate.

    Lawgirl, there are plenty of men who are quite happy to brag about how they keep their women in line. And they aren’t lying.

    Also, the “can’t get laid” is really tiresome. Its not the measure of manhood or personal worth. Fault him on his pro abuse stance. There’s plenty to criticize there.

  6. I would actually prefer if MRAs would fuck robots and Real Dolls. At least, then, there would be no actual woman being harmed in his sexual assault.

  7. Also, there’s no consequences to Ferdie being open about how he likes to beat women. Its not like he needs to worry about the interwebz police finding him.

    So he might be a coward, but he can be a lot braver on the net

  8. Yeah, I get that he thinks moms and cougars are desperate so they won’t hit back, yadda yadda. But I question if he’s ever met one. Usually these guys demonize “older” women for having experience (though they claim it has something to do with lack of fertility — when they really mean a woman with sexual experience is scary. Pffft) They’re always contradicting themselves. It’s fucking exhausting.

  9. I would actually prefer if MRAs would fuck robots and Real Dolls. At least, then, there would be no actual woman being harmed in his sexual assault.

    Yes, Nanasha, exactly!!!! I completely fail to understand why I’m supposed to be terrified about these men getting fembots. I INVENTED the idea when I was eleven years old – well, okay, I found out later that other people had already thought of them, so I hadn’t actually been the first to invent them. But I figured it would be a great solution – get all the men who need to rape, etc. off somewhere, supply them with these dolls programmed to cry, plead, struggle, etc. – get larger dolls for the men who are into raping adults – and then all these men would be happy in their little corner of the world, and all the females and the good guys could all live happily in the rest of the world.

    The idea that I’m supposed to be terrified that these men might go off with fembots is completely baffling to me.

    Now terrifying? That would be that I messed up on my blockquote attempt and broke the thread. THAT is scary. Not fembots.

  10. Whoooohoooooooooo! Intact thread!

    And aworldanonymous – I’ve been lurking here for quite a while – and you are definitely a cool guy – please don’t hate yourself.

  11. @Everyone offering support

    Thank you all kindly, life with Aspergers syndrome, anxiety, and depression isn’t easy, and having people to help me cope is always wonderful. I’m hoping to get a chance to see my psychiatrist about trying out a different anti-depressant to see if it’ll help. But even as such, these wounds take time to heal, I’m hoping that finally being out of the somewhat immature social environment of public school will help me at least a bit. But again, thank you all, It’s fantastic having people whom I may not even ever meet who I can still say care about me.

  12. Also @Nanasha

    Hugs again if you want them, I can’t imagine being gaslighted and forced through that kind of abuse, the worse I’ve had to face was semi-constant bullying at the hands of unimaginative rural kids and hockey jocks. I wish I could say or do something to offer solace or consolation, but really I am merely in awe that someone can do things that horrid to their own child. I can say that I’m very happy you were able to make it through it, and I do wish you the best in whatever life brings you.

  13. Speaking of violence towards women, I can only hope this is sarcasm but it’s from the latest spearhead article and not at all surprising

    Big Ern August 15, 2012 at 12:59
    OK, problem #1 is the sheepish tone of this request.

    How about start with a very public admonition right there in the church on the spot, such as “you’re in Church, stop dressing like a whore?!”

    Or a smack across the face, to set a fine example. Followed by a proper fistfight with the inevitable white knighters who subsequently come to her valiant defense.

    Muslims are the real men. They grab their women by the hair and say, “Put this burka on, slut! Or I’ll stone your ass!” This is probably why the U.S. feels the need to bomb them.

  14. @Quackers

    Why do these guys ever even try to pretend that they aren’t a hate group?

  15. aworldanonymous–hugs if you want them. Getting out of high school and to college will probably be great for you.

  16. @aworldanonymous

    Probably because they believe all men secretly think like them, thus its not hate if the majority believe it. Meanwhile everyone who isn’t a hate-filled sack of shit just looks at them in disgust.

    Hugs from me too if you want them. Maybe look into Cymbalta with your doctor? I find it works pretty good but unfortunately it’s a bit pricey (though if you’re going to college soon you should have a health plan)

  17. @ WordSpinner

    Thanks, To be completely honest, I haven’t the slightest idea what to expect come September, living in rez, trying to keep up with essays and other work. It’s probably best if I try to be optimistic about it, and I am, I don’t think I’m a total and complete fuckup, I just have some really really bad days/weeks/months, I can usually come out of them feeling better, but it is quite frightening how frequent they’re getting.

  18. @ Quackers

    I’m on paxil right now, and my psychiatrist said it’s normal for people to have to try a few different anti-depressants before they find the right one, so I’m gonna try my luck with whatever he perscribes and see where things go from there.

  19. @aworldanonymous

    good luck! I was on paxil before when I was younger and it worked but then I had to try a bunch of other kinds…like your doc said that’s usually the case.

  20. @ aworldanonymous- Oh man, I am so sorry you are in high school!! If it is anything like most of the highschools in the world, everyone is having a shit time, even the people who seem like they’re happy and everyone likes them. Look, when you get out of there there are a shit ton of people you will meet who will be respectful to you on the spot, take the time to get to know you and understand your condition, and basically not care if you aren’t acting exactly like everyone else. I have a friend with aspergers who absolutely haaaated highschool, was nearly suicidal the whole time, 100 pounds overweight, etc. Well, he graduated, things started to look a little up, he started eating better and exercising a bit more, things started looking even better for him, he traveled the world and taught English and eventually met a fellow ESL teacher and they hit it off. Great dude. Point is, it totally gets better. Just stick it out, dude, you’ll be alright. And focus on that self-care! You are on the right track getting your meds, but make sure you do other healthy things for yourself once in a while.Crap, now I sound like your mother. Remember to wear your mittens, sweetie, you don’t want to catch cold!

  21. @aworldanonymous- When I was in it, it was Just How Things Were. And, as I said before, my parents were very explicit about “how much worse” it could be- I was being told explicit stories of horrific abuse that “other children” had to endure at the hands of their family members and especially of Foster Care (my mom’s mother had been an abusive alcoholic and she’d encountered at least two or three sexual molestation experiences, either being forced to watch or being the victim of direct abuse, so she made sure to scare the shit out of my sister and I into never reporting the abuse). I spent much of my elementary school years and junior high school years fantasizing about running away, but I knew that logically, it would not lead to anything good.

    Besides, as I said, my parents weren’t total monsters (like the ones they kept describing to me). They fed me, clothed me, allowed me to have friends and visit them, even helped me get a bicycle and gave me the freedom to ride where I wanted as long as I always came back within a certain timeframe.

    But because of the fact that my mom especially used emotional abuse and threats of physical violence to control everyone, I became very very good at being very clear and very direct about things, while also mastering subterfuge and other manipulative tactics in order to keep her from getting really extreme (she started threatening to kill my sister for “mouthing off” a couple times).

    This has actually served me well in helping me to curb my own violent impulses. This is one of the main problems with abuse- it perpetuates itself. I have a part of me that is angry- so angry- and there’s just no way for me to get it out, no matter how many miles I run or how many pillows I punch. But the best way to diffuse the anger is through TALKING. I know, it sounds silly. But when my daughter is really pissing me off (as 3 year olds are apt to do), I find that voicing my frustration and telling her WHY she’s trying my patience/irritating me, even if she can’t completely understand it, basically removes the impulse to resort to physical discipline (which was the main way my parents “disciplined” me). A lot of the time, if she’s really being whiny, I tell her, “Ok, we’re taking a break,” and then I remove both of us from all stimulation. Sometimes I have to put her in one room and me in the other and just do NOTHING. But it calms both of us down. She knows that this is how she will be treated if she acts like this, and she rarely tantrums (unless she’s really over-tired, but that makes sense).

    When she refuses to do something she needs to do (like brushing teeth), I explain to her why she has to do it, and it helps me be less frustrated.

    My mom was often silent before she would explode, and she wanted everything “just so”- everything had to be done a special way or it was EVILBAD.

    I can be neurotic and “just so” about certain things, but in general, I can cope with it if I stay very very verbal.

    I am very grateful that the tactics that I used to survive abuse are the ones I use to refrain from abusing others, but I still feel bad that those impulses arise in certain situations in the first place. It makes me feel really sick in the pit of my stomach, especially when I barely catch an abusive tirade in my throat when my partner does something incredibly infuriating.

    But yeah. I just had to shell out over 1400 dollars in vet bills for a cat with a blocked urinary tract and I’m set to go on maternity leave in less than 2 months, so there’s very very little money for therapy (and the “free” therapy that I got through our employe assistance program was useless at best). I’m focusing on paying the bills and not having a nervous breakdown over all the pressure that I’m under right now.

    The very worst thing? I only recently had the guts to call CPS on my cousin. Her children are showing signs of abuse and neglect, but it’s always been so subtle and other family keeps on explaining it away as innocuous, but only recently did it actually “click” for me that, no, it’s not “normal” for an 11 year old to be in pull-ups or for a 6 year old to hoard bags and bags of toys around with her everywhere she goes and binge constantly on food to the point of extreme obesity. I’m still not quite sure if they’re actually going to find anything when they confront my cousin about this (or if they’ll be able to do it anytime soon since CPS is so backed up), but it’s a heavy secret for me to bear because I just *know* that my cousin is going to try and figure out who ratted her out, and it’s probably enough to rip my (usually closely knit) extended family apart.

    I just know that when I was young, I wish that my family had said, “this is fucked up” when I talked to them about shit my mom did to me. I wish that just one person had said “you are NOT crazy- you’re not just some spoiled kid- what she’s doing is WRONG”.

    So yeah. I finally spoke up. But I wonder if I did the right thing- I mean, if I don’t have PROOF, what if that just makes me one of those people who sees ABUSE EVERYWHERE? -_-

  22. I’m pretty sure you did the right thing, Nanasha.

  23. @Quackers

    God damn it, I just had to go to the Spearhead and see it for myself. I found this comment from our good friend Mr. Slave.

    NWOslave August 15, 2012 at 16:29
    Trying to civilize women proved to be a waste of time and effort. When given the opportunity they revert back to acting like animals in heat. With state and societal protection, it’s a game of, let’s see how many and how much can I arouse men, and I dare ya to act on it.

    It’s refreshing to see him leave a comment that doesn’t include the word “Marxist.”

  24. Wow. I can’t even imagine being as fucked up and hateful as Bardamu. What the hell is wrong with these people?

  25. @Nanasha, I think you did the right thing too. Hugs if you want ‘em.

  26. @Dracula- I think that the thing that throws me for a loop is that “abuse” just like “rape” has very specific definitions and implications in my family as well as larger society. I was taught that abuse is cigarette burns on your arms and your parents beating you until you are broken and bleeding. I was taught that it was “obvious” and “overt.” That’s why I didn’t recognize my own abuse until later on- I went through many years of half-thinking that I was “overreacting” and “crazy” for thinking that I had it tough- that things were really unsafe at home for me.

    And that’s what made it the worst for me in this situation. Because I know that CPS people see kids who get the extreme abuse- so I’m wondering if they’ll even take me seriously- what if they just reinforce the fact that it’s considered “overreacting” until a child is being so obviously hurt that even the most head-in-the-ground denier would have to admit it?

    I’m also deeply terrified that they’ll be put in an abusive foster home. My mom told me so many horrible stories of abuse in foster homes, that thinking about it is very triggering for me.

  27. @aworldanonymous: I’m glad to see the next generation of anarcho-communists is going to have some awesome kids in it to take the torch.

  28. @Nanasha you did the right thing.

  29. Well Nanasha, given what your mother put you through, I can certainly understand questioning whether you did right here, but it sounds to me like someone needed to make that call.

    And if you hadn’t been brave enough to do it, there’s a real chance no one else would have. I’m deeply sorry for those kids, and I’m sorry you have to in that kind of position.

    Speaking up is never easy, and I imagine that goes double if you’ve specifically been taught to be afraid to.

    So I’ll say again, you did the right thing. And it was damn brave of you.

  30. @Nanasha
    Just want to say I think you did the right thing.

    @aworldanonymous
    From what I can tell you’re a good person and you shouldn’t hate yourself. I know it’s easier said than done, but I hope you find an antidepressant that works for you.

  31. @Nanasha

    You are a very strong, courageous individual to have to deal with all of that.

  32. HAR HAR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE U GAIZ

    keep it classy MRAs

  33. Lawgirl, there are plenty of men who are quite happy to brag about how they keep their women in line. And they aren’t lying.

    Do you mean by force or violence? I don’t know of any. In some places like Italy if people found out that a man hit his wife he would be ostracised and would really be sent to Coventry. People would treat him like he was invisible, not speak to him or answer him and not serve him in a cafe or shop.

    “Also, the “can’t get laid” is really tiresome. Its not the measure of manhood or personal worth.”

    It may not be but that’s what he talks about 99% of the time in one way or another which makes me wonder what his real problem is. A lot of these blogs seem the same and the problem always seems to being able to get a woman which is strange because at least 50% of people are female.Are they so inept that they have to take “game’ lessons just to talk to someone? Boys have been talking to girls since kindergarten

  34. ‘Just call the cops’ is a bullshit victim blaming response to someone’s resistance against their abuser. Many times, cops will not do shit, sometimes they will harm or punish the victim, and often the abuser is back out where they can hurt the victim extremely quickly. ‘Call the cops’ overestimates by far the likelihood of positive police response, and underestimates by far the likelihood of the abuser making reprisals, which social institutions will often support.

  35. A: How you doing?
    B: Not so good, can’t get laid?
    A: You’re a good looking guy, what is it that these *** want?
    A: No idea, it is all going really well, then I mention how it is imperative that a man beats his women as discipline and they run away.
    B: Bitches

  36. It’s not any different than Heartiste’s post. The basic argument is, “I’m not saying hit her, but you know, she does have it coming.”
    2

  37. I see lawgirl is dipshit troll adjacent.

    Nanasha: you did the right thing. I hear you on that anger–it’s a part of why I won’t have kids–that shit stops with me. Hugs if you want ‘em.

  38. We can, of course, reflect on the disdain the MRM has about female on male DV. Those men, I am sure, deserved what happened to them. They were weaker, and annoyed the stronger partner and she had to keep him in line.

  39. Do you mean by force or violence? I don’t know of any. In some places like Italy if people found out that a man hit his wife he would be ostracised and would really be sent to Coventry. People would treat him like he was invisible, not speak to him or answer him and not serve him in a cafe or shop.

    Don’t know of any? Really? Never heard any of the apologists for Chris Brown say “but you know how bitches get”? Maybe things are different in Italy, I wouldn’t know, but at least in the US, often a lot of abusers either remain unpunished or have tons of people rushing to their defense if they are even put under house arrest (oh the humanity). Also, if you don’t know any abusers personally, there are plenty online. Which, I think, is what we were talking about anyway??

    It may not be but that’s what he talks about 99% of the time in one way or another which makes me wonder what his real problem is. A lot of these blogs seem the same and the problem always seems to being able to get a woman which is strange because at least 50% of people are female.Are they so inept that they have to take “game’ lessons just to talk to someone? Boys have been talking to girls since kindergarten

    Again, I don’t care that these guys can or can’t get laid. I care that they think they are entitled to treat their lady partners like shit. But while we’re on the subject of kindergarten, perhaps part of the problem is that even in kindergarten little boys are allowed to torment the little girls and often most teachers and parents will just say “ah, it’s just because he likes you!” to the little girls? Maybe, just maybe there’s this shitty part of our culture that looks the other way, even encourages violence and/or shitty behavior in boys and compliance and submission in girls? Nah, that can’t be it. Let’s all just move to Italy! *eyeroll*

  40. @All- I know that it sounds kinda weird, but I’ve been doubting my judgement these past few days after reporting my cousin to CPS, so it really validates me when people outside the situation say, “yeah, that sounds like the right call.” Sometimes it is easy to “forget” how normalized abuse can be, especially when it comes to abusive parents, because there is SO MUCH in our culture that actively ENCOURAGES abusive behaviors (such as hitting and belittling) being “acceptable” to keep children “from getting spoiled” or “in line.”

    Which is why if I meet a man who sees women as children, I run like hell in the opposite direction. Because what he MEANS is that he sees women as acceptable abuse objects, and that children are THE MOST acceptable abuse object because they are all smaller and weaker than he is.

    My parents had a house in the suburbs. I never went hungry. But I was still abused. It’s hard for my brain to wrap around that, especially since I live in a small apartment and I often worry that my daughter won’t “have” the things that I did. But it’s a small price to pay to keep her out of the hands of abusers, (my parents keep trying to get us to move in with them), and if I can keep her from experiencing childhood abuse and have her grow up happy and healthy, then I will make any sacrifice to do so.

  41. @Nanasha, best of luck to you. It sounds like you’re a great mom and as others have said, made the right call with CPS. I totally get what you mean about second guessing yourself, I had a situation that was similar-ish. My mom was emotionally and physically abusive to my sister and I, but was always on her best behavior to everyone else. She too very much normalized it and was very careful to detail how much WORSE other kids had it. My feelings about my mother are very mixed – on the one hand, she was an excellent provider, very supportive to my sister and I in all activities we wanted to do, but was also extremely hard on us, and often resorted to a lot of physical abuse and what I called “low blows” verbally (saying things like, “it’s no wonder you don’t have any friends” or “you look like a blimp next to all those other girls”). I too had a lot of anger in me, so much so that one day I hit her back. She stopped hitting after that, but I was horrified with myself. Part of the reason I’m not sure I want to be a mother is because I’m terrified of becoming MY mother.

    Sorry for all the rambling, but I guess I wanted to let you know you aren’t alone, and it sounds like you’re doing a great job at being a parent and cousin.

  42. @Nanasha — I’ve got no direct experience with anything like what you’ve had, but I think you’re doing very well in response to your life circumstances, and I hope you can get everything you want for your daughter. I have a half-off sale on Internet hugs. Good thing their regular price is free.

  43. I don’t have words nasty enough to decribe that guy. Women aren’t beneath men, we’re equal. Women aren’t to be, “disciplined” by men. If your partner acts childish, accept it or find another partner. This guy obviously wants to beat women.

  44. Did someone say hugs? I found this today. :P

    http://animalshugging.tumblr.com/

  45. some guy bored with your schtick

    Did you save that essay? It seems to be gone now.

  46. It did seem to have vanished but it’s up again now. I’ve got a screenshot of it from when it originally ran on In Mala Fide in any case.

  47. some guy bored with your schtick

    So it is. Ugh.

    Do I really have to read this? Is it reasonable for me to ask without reading it what is the difference between what some nut with a website now gone wrote and the crap that Valerie Solanas wrote? Or similar stuff from cranks associated with feminism?

  48. Valerie Solanas wrote one essay against men and that was in 1967 and it was also satirical.

    MRAs’ output is much more voluminous, sincere, and not-45-years-old.

  49. Also, y’know, if you don’t want to read this website, the Internet has several others.

  50. There’s even a couple websites about cats!

  51. some guy bored with your schtick

    I wasn’t speaking of this website, and there are many many examples of feminist on male violence around. Even today in the GWW thread there were defenders of female initiated domestic violence. Solanas was satirical? Was her assassination attempt on Andy Warhol also satirical?

  52. Oh, word, if someone does something in a non-satirical fashion then all their unrelated satirical activities have to be taken totally seriously. It’s like when people try to front like Swift’s “A Modest Proposal” was satire, and I’m all like “Oh yeah? Was his appointment as Dean of St Patrick’s Cathedral also satire?” Boom, un-satired.

  53. Oh shut up, some guy. Solanas shot Warhol over her crappy play. It had nothing to do with gender politics. Besides, I think she was suffering some kind of “breakdown” (I don’t know how to describe Solanas’ state of mind without sounding ableist ).

  54. We really need to start assembling a list of links to arguments that have been made and debunked eleventy billion times on this very blog, so that we give them to trolls who think they’re being super original and just say “here, enjoy”.

  55. Even today in the GWW thread there were defenders of female initiated domestic violence.

    Bullshit.

    Was her assassination attempt on Andy Warhol also satirical?

    The relationship between the ideas satirically set out in The SCUM Manifesto and Solanas’ personally motivated attack on Warhol for allegedly stealing her work are complicated, and you will not understand the nature of that relationship whilst attempting to use it as a lazy rhetorical club on an internets comment thread. Based on your record I think you will settle for the lazy rhetorical club rather than researching it for five consecutive seconds.

  56. See, if a woman makes a man hit her, this is “female-initiated violence.”

    Just like if you get mad at a puppy and hit it, that would be “puppy-initiated violence.”

  57. @Cassandra

    I’ve thought of this too. Debunking Solanas, the “all sex is rape” bollocks, etc.

  58. @fembot

    I just can’t be bothered to have the same conversation over and over again, you know? I’m at the same point with arguments about abortion – can’t be bothered to repeat all the things I’ve said hundreds of times before just because some jackass is too lazy to google “how does the contraceptive pill work”.

  59. some guy bored with your schtick

    “See, if a woman makes a man hit her, this is “female-initiated violence.””

    The woman initiated actions that are classically defined as physical violence. This does not give the man permission to hit her.

    Neither does it give you permission to deny what she did.

    Stop being a DV apologist.

  60. some guy bored with your schtick

    It it unfortunate that Solanas’ wry wit was buried by her assassination attempts. Such is the life of an artist.

  61. Stop being a DV apologist.

    Stop projecting, asshammer.

  62. Like I said: lazy rhetorical club.

  63. Even today in the GWW thread there were defenders of female initiated domestic violence.

    So says you, Mr Bias Man.

  64. BROlepathy: the ability of MRAs to know exactly who initiated violence in a dispute from a brief second-hand account of something someone heard and did not see.

  65. Do I really have to read this? Is it reasonable for me to ask without reading it what is the difference between what some nut with a website now gone wrote and the crap that Valerie Solanas wrote? Or similar stuff from cranks associated with feminism?

    1.) No, you don’t have to read it. No one is forcing you to click on the link and read that dreck. No one is forcing you to read this site either. You can go away any time you like.

    2.) No, it would not be reasonable to compare the post David quoted with the SCUM Manifesto (at least, I assume that’s what you were referring to when you mentioned “the crap Valerie Solanas wrote”). The SCUM Manifesto was meant as satire. The post David quoted was dead serious. (And no, the fact that the SCUM Manifesto was satire does not automatically excuse everything else Valerie Solanas did.)

    3.) I’m not sure what “similar stuff from cranks associated with feminism” you are specifically referring too, but given that there are some feminist extremists who have said downright stupid and awful things, yes, it’s fairly reasonable to ask what makes that different from the original post.

    And the answer to that question is this:

    The difference is that those extremists feminists are only a fringe minority of feminists. I can find plenty of moderate feminists more than willing to condemn the statements of the extremists. But the views expressed in the original post are par for the course with MRAs. Where are the MRAs willing to step forward and condemn domestic violence against women? Where are the moderate MRAs?

  66. some guy bored with your schtick

    Anathema, as you look for moderate MRAs consider that in this forum, none of you moderate feminists have been able to acknowledge that the woman in GWW’s scenario was the initiator of domestic violence.

    I could ignore your presence and generalize from Futrelle’s blog that there are thus no moderate feminists because they all defend woman initiated domestic violence, or I could look deeper and find you in the comments.

    There are many moderate MRAs and many moderate men associated with the Fathers Rights Movement. Instead of acknowledging them and focusing on them and dialogueing with them, David, NOW, Salon, Double XX, Pandagon, feministing, feministe, etc., keep insisting on lumping them in with the Ferdinand Bardamus. You can confirm this merely by scanning down David’s “boobroll” and in particular just by observing David’s day to day schtick.

  67. Anathema, as you look for moderate MRAs consider that in this forum, none of you moderate feminists have been able to acknowledge that the woman in GWW’s scenario was the initiator of domestic violence.

    But she wasn’t. If GWW is right about the woman screaming and throwing things, she was abusive, but still didn’t initiate physical violence.

    Also, GWW has no idea that it was the woman throwing things and the whole scenario never happened.

  68. Why do we have to acknowledge anything for MRAs to come out against domestic violence?

    Shouldn’t that be a GIVEN?

  69. You can confirm this merely by scanning down David’s “boobroll” and in particular just by observing David’s day to day schtick.

    Okay, champ, tell us which of the sites on the boobroll are bastions of thoughtful, moderate MRA dialogue. I mean, unless it’s your intention to keep that list vague so that you can immediately distance yourself from any MRA that says anything awful, but I’m sure you would never be so dishonest.

  70. There are many moderate MRAs and many moderate men associated with the Fathers Rights Movement.

    Such as . . . ?

    Simply asserting that moderate MRAs exist is different from demonstrating it. Give me examples. Name names. Tell me who the moderate MRAs are.

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