Hey, MRAs: If you don’t want people to associate you with hatred, don’t associate yourself with hate groups

MRAs: digging their own hole.

Here’s a bit of advice for Men’s Rights redditors and MRAs in general: if you don’t want people to associate the Men’s Rights movement with hatred, you should probably not associate yourselves with hate groups.

Yesterday, a fellow called heiligenschein posted a link in the Men’s Rights subreddit to a relatively new subreddit called simply SPLC, a subreddit set up by enemies of the Southern Poverty Law Center and devoted to, as heiligenschein put it, “compiling the numerous criticisms of the [SPLC].” As he explained in a comment:

That’s a somewhat odd criticism for heiligenschein, one of the moderators of the SPLC subreddit, to make. If you look at the front page of this subreddit, you’ll discover that he and his pals are already doing a fine job of associating themselves with “neo nazi nutters” all by themselves.

If you scroll through the links, you’ll notice that Heiligenschein has posted links to several different articles from VDare.com, which the SPLC describes as an “anti-immigration hate website” which “regularly publishes articles by prominent white nationalists, race scientists and anti-Semites.” Note to MRAs: if you’re disinclined to take the word of the SPLC on anything, all you need to do to get a sense of VDare’s genteel racism is to do a search on the site for, well, the word “racism,” or “immigrant.” Or you can read VDare founder Peter Brimelow’s repulsive victim-blaming post on the “root causes” of the Sikh temple murders in Wisconsin.

Heiligenschein  also links to the virulently anti-immigrant American Patrol Report and a Confederacy-loving group called the Georgia Heritage Council; a quick glance at either group’s website will reveal what sort of organizations these are. He also links to a pretty hateful site called A Voice for Men, which some of you may have heard of already.

But the connection to the racist far-right goes beyond a couple of links. The five other moderators of the r/splc subreddit – mayonesa, dvance, Octuple, salsaverde, warkin – are also the moderators of reddit’s race-obsessed “new right” subreddit. Some of the submissions in that subreddit at the moment:

18% of marriages by Chinese and Japanese Americans are to Jews. Thoughts?

The poison of multiculturalism

USA Olympic athlete waves Mex flag: propaganda-bearing parasite prole being used as an infectious agent by the master parasite class?

The not-so-fab five also moderate a smaller subreddit called “alternative right,” a dog-whistle term amongst the far right for (pseudo) intellectual racism and so-called “human biological diversity.” Some of the submissions there, all of them submitted by moderator Mayonesa:

Emo neckbeards having hategasm over pro-white flyer

“I believe Europe to be the ‘white man’s country’. If they don’t want non-whites among them, I think it’s fair.”

Diversity perversity: Behind multicultural push is effort to degrade American culture

The West has been seriously damaged by Communist successes at memetic subversion.

The five run at least two more subreddits devoted to this kind of crap.

Just so you know, MRAs, these are the sort of people you end up hanging out with once you join the SPLC anti-fan club.

Naturally, the handful of comments I found in the r/mensrights discussion on the subject pointing out that the r/splc moderators were a bunch of race-obsessed far-right extremists — see here, here, and here —  all got downvotes from the regulars there.

You’re digging your own hole here, MRAs.

About David Futrelle

I run the blog We Hunted the Mammoth, which tracks (and mocks) online misogyny. My writing has appeared in a wide variety of places, including Salon, Time.com, the Washington Post, the New York Times Book Review and Money magazine. I like cats.

Posted on August 13, 2012, in a voice for men, hate, hypocrisy, irony alert, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, racism, reactionary bullshit, reddit, splc and tagged , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 304 Comments.

  1. Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:13 am
    1. It’s not nor will it ever be ableist language. My mother used it CORRECTLY that is why I gave the example.

    Does it really matter? Mentally ill people are calling you out for being ableist. The best way to handle it is to apologize and drop it, not antagonize and insist you’re right.

    And even if I believe you that your mother’s a psychiatrist (which I don’t, considering many people like you have tried to pull this “Oh, but my [relative] is a mental health worker, so it’s okay!” bullshit), what, you think your mother’s not capable of ableism? I know that most children respect their mothers, but c’mon, your mom’s human. She’s not infallible.

    AND even if your mom is a psychiatrist, what the fresh fucking fuck makes you think that you’re qualified to use it “correctly”?

    2. I never said it was indicative of all opinions you are arguing with a strawman.I said it’s all I had been able to find if you know of something else then I haven’t been able to find it. That doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. But if my search skills didn’t turn it up before I fail to see how they could turn it up now.

    I fail to see how this means I need to go look for it for you.

    3. My second post is when I apologised. You ignored it.

    Your second post in its entirety:

    Thatonegirl | July 12, 2015 at 9:24 pm
    Oh no Rape Culture is real it’s just not perpetuated by fiction and BDSM enthusiasts. Also I can’t see your pic Pandapool.

    Hysterical and Histrionic are two different things I fail to see how I would use them interchangeably.

    Also why is Necroing bad? Aren’t these things as relevant now as them were then?

    I see no apology. And even if I did see an apology in text, it’s kind of rendered a non-apology considering that you have gone on to keep doing what you were asked not to do.

    However, I continued to look, and I did find one single apology made by you:

    Thatonegirl | July 12, 2015 at 10:45 pm
    As to what my post has to do with the article above. Mainly I was point out that just because MRA’s are corrupt hatefilled hypocrites. Doesn’t mean that eveyone who objects to feminism objects for the same reason.

    I didn’t say it very well but I don’t know how else to say it.

    If that’s not related enough then I’m sorry I thought it was.

    One, no one here asked for an apology (though it would be nice, I certainly don’t think you’d mean it), and two, an apology should be given, however it should be for trying to imply that feminists are somehow “histrionic” about things that are “fantasy”, and for refusing to abide by the rules and for being really fucking rude and doubling-down when called out on it.

    4. I was ASKED for that link and I gave it. Honestly what do you lose by linking me?

    Besides my time and my patience having to go find links for a so called feminist who has been nothing but snide and rude to everyone here? Nothing. I also gain nothing by linking you. So, it’s not worth it.

    Go do it yourself. We don’t exist to gather links for you. You’re not paying me, I’m getting nothing out of it.

    So I’m not going to do it. I’m instead going to do things that I’m getting more value out of.

  2. Anyway I’m done I see your point about the education vs personal thing. But Histrionic still ain’t ableism and never will be.

    Now go watch your anime.

  3. My second post in reply the first post doesn’t count. Okay…Now, you can go watch your anime.

  4. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    @Thatonegirl

    You used it INCORRECTLY, however.

    The trend seems to be MRA’s are more likely to be histrionic about real life whereas Feminists are more likely to be histrionic about fantasy.

    What you sad has nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry but instead are using the word as an adjective to describe how two group of people view something. And if you were trying to use the word in a medical, you sure as shit did it wrong, because not even professional can diagnose an entire group of people over the internet.

    Thus your use of the word is ableist and you not correcting and apologizing just shows you are not interested in the community as it’s part of our rules. People get banned for continuing ignoring our no ableist language rule. If you apologize and say you were wrong and do not defend your usage or try to use ableist language again, we’d have better faith in you. But you aren’t. It’s like you don’t care, which of course you don’t.

    Instead of stopping and thinking about what you’re writing and thinking critically about what we’re writing back, you’re pushing against the rules, as if they don’t apply to you. Newsflash: We ALL follow these rules, including not necroing threads and not using ableist language. If you continue this, you WILL get banned because we ban such tedious behavior on this forum. We don’t have time for this shit.

    And, no, you DID NOT APOLOGIZE:

    I mean that MRA’s rewrite Facts about reality i.e. the whole “women and children first thing” they take one example and twist it to apply to all examples. Or they rewrite the narrative of abuse so that the victim is to blame.

    Where as Feminists rewrite Facts about fiction i.e. they think the Drow in D&D were placed there to validate the fears of the thousands of racist misogynist men that play D&D.

    It is not ablest to use Histrionic unlike retard or autistic Histrionics psychological definition has roots in it’s real definition. Perhaps you’d also like to stop using narcissism?

    Look at that. Not one, “I’m sorry. I won’t use such language again.” Instead, you say it ISN’T ableist and try to turn it around on US. Fun fact: Narcissism isn’t a mental illness, it’s a trait (and Freuden, which makes it pretty bunk, which you should know from your parents), while Histrionic Personality Disorder is a disorder. Traits and disorders are different, which, again, you should know from your parents.

    Lastly, I asked for the link because you mentioned it (in one of the above quotes, in fact), so the burden of proof, showing the article in question, was on you since you mentioned the fact. Citing your sources and all that.

    However, why should we have to google “feminism basics” when you have perfectly functioning internet and search bar (unless you use Bing or Ask or whatever)? Literally, just type in “basics of feminism” and you’ll probably get philosophy websites or feminist blogs or something. It’s not hard.

    The difference between you having to link and us not having to link is that you’re mentioning a very specific article, which means if any of us tried to google it, we could get a completely different article and not be on the same page. However, there is no single “basics of feminism” post and there are dozens of perfectly good sites that cover it, so you can just google that yourself. There is no single “Feminism 101” we all cite.

  5. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    I’m in moderation, but just you wait. And stuff. Eventually!

  6. Wait! “so-called feminist” Sorry but one more thing, I’m not a feminist! Not even a so-called one Nor am I an MRA. Or a “not” MRA

    Though I get called the opposite thing by whatever one I’m talking to. I know I said I was done but I never said I was a feminist. I just said I agreed with the purpose of the blog and would like to see a more nuanced feminist reading than the ones I’ve been able to find on Fangs For Fantasy.

    That doesn’t mean I’m claiming to be a feminist. Where do you people get these strawmen?

  7. Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:28 am
    I’m number 1 because number 2 implies that I’m annoyed because I’m the thing being discussed.

    Or perhaps we’re just tired of trying to discuss basic shit with you that you’re refusing to get, and we’re tired of your demands for links to the vaguest of topics when you could just learn to Google better?

    Really, when I want to discuss something with you, we should both be on equal terms, yes? So, if the conversation isn’t on my terms, why the fuck should I engage with you?

    Or, better yet, why am I obligated to engage with you at all?

    Though really there should be a number 3 Person A: Posts a thing
    Person B: injects balance because pedant
    Person A: Morphs into a horde of Person As who don’t understand that if Histrionic is ableism then they really should stop using Narcissism and Egotisim and Sociopath in their posts for the same reason. You monster.

    Or perhaps you’re not a pedant so much as you’re just assuming that we’re all here to fucking do your homework for you after you get snippy with us because we asked you to not necro threads and use ableist terms (because those are against the rules) and you whined that you think it sucks and you should be able to break the rules as you see fit?

    However, I’m somewhat amused by this and I like to discuss on this topic, so I’ll throw you a bone. Hell, I’ll even provide links, alright, cookie? (See, discussions on my terms!)

    What you did in your original post that bothered us so much is you tried to paint women as being “over-dramatic” and “hysterical”. This has a lot of historical connotations against women. In Victorian times, women were often forcibly put into asylums for being “hysterical”.

    However, that stereotype prevails even today. There are lots of stories about women being written off as “hysterical” by doctors and the women’s actual problems get ignored. Here’s one from Jezebel.

    And because I’m feeling extra generous: Here’s a link to a custom search of stories from just the past year involving women being ignored or not going to doctors because they don’t want to be called “hysterical”.

    When we refer to “Narcissism and Egotism and Sociopaths” (Though, we do refrain from armchair diagnoses because that’s just shitty and ableist anyways. We cannot diagnose over the internet, let alone on one story about a person, or a snippet of something they’ve said.) the connotations of that word aren’t there.

    It’s not just the word itself, it’s the context behind that word. There’s not really such a thing as “good hysteria”, but there’s healthy levels of Narcissism and Egotism that people should have (though, that’s another kettle of fish when discussing women because there’s this idea that any woman with even a smidgen of self-esteem or healthy levels of Narcissism/Egotism is considered to be “vain” or “conceited”, or “arrogant”.)

    When we use those words in reference to men (Though, again, we try to avoid “sociopath” because armchair diagnoses are shitty and ableist), we talk about their egos and the way some men believe the world revolves around them and their penises, and how women should do the same.

    Again, context and connotation are important. You used a word that has a very bad connotation when referring to women, and you used that word in context to try and make feminists (and MRAs, but not so much because you implied that they were worried about “reality”, while us feminists were more worried about “fiction”) sound “hysterical and over-dramatic”, because that’s what that word means.

    You used a word that has similar meaning to one that has been wielded against women for centuries, and has been used to keep women in asylums or out of hospitals when they needed them most. So, yes. We are going to get defensive and call you out for it.

  8. Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:48 am
    Wait! “so-called feminist” Sorry but one more thing, I’m not a feminist! Not even a so-called one Nor am I an MRA. Or a “not” MRA

    Though I get called the opposite thing by whatever one I’m talking to. I know I said I was done but I never said I was a feminist. I just said I agreed with the purpose of the blog and would like to see a more nuanced feminist reading than the ones I’ve been able to find on Fangs For Fantasy.

    That doesn’t mean I’m claiming to be a feminist. Where do you people get these strawmen?

    OH EVEN BETTER!

    Someone who isn’t a feminist demanding that feminists do their homework for them! Though, I hardly see how that’s a “strawman”. Mislabeling, definitely. But, not a strawman.

    Again, learn 2 Google. Hell, just Google “feminism 101” if you want some basic information.

    And of course I get caught by the italics mammoth. Ah, well.

  9. Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:32 am
    Anyway I’m done I see your point about the education vs personal thing. But Histrionic still ain’t ableism and never will be.

    Now go watch your anime.

    I’m glad you see my point.

    However, again, histrionic isn’t just ableism, it’s also inherently sexist. See above~

  10. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    @Thatonegirl

    Wow, you’re not a feminist?

    Shocking.

    We never claimed you’re a feminist, I don’t believe. If any of us did, it was ironically. We have all manner of trolls coming in here, trying to pass off as what they think feminism and “SJW” are and trying to “call us out” on shit and making a fool of themselves in the process.

  11. histrionic comes from history not hysterical. It was actually someone on this thread that suggested I should have used hysterical instead.

  12. Paradox called me a “so-called” feminist implying that I had claimed to be one.

  13. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    I wish one of my comments wasn’t in moderation. I’m assuming it’s because I mentioned Freud and the filter doesn’t distinguish debunking stuff from weaponizing stuff.

  14. Thatonegirl | July 13, 2015 at 2:57 am
    histrionic comes from history not hysterical. It was actually someone on this thread that suggested I should have used hysterical instead.

    Actually, weirwoodtreehugger asked you if “hysterical was too much of a dogwhistle for you”, not suggesting that you use “hysterical”.

    Also, earlier in the thread, Jackie provided the definition of “histrionic”. Time for a refresher course:

    his·tri·on·ic
    ˌhistrēˈänik/Submit
    adjective
    1. overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.
    “a histrionic outburst”
    synonyms: melodramatic, theatrical, dramatic, exaggerated, stagy, actorly, showy, affected, artificial, overacted, overdone
    noun
    1.exaggerated dramatic behavior designed to attract attention.
    “discussions around the issue have been based as much in histrionics as in history”
    synonyms: dramatics, theatrics, tantrums;

    So, what you said was “Feminists are being over-dramatic about fictional things, while MRAs are being over-dramatic about reality.”

    You’re still implying that feminists are making a big deal about nothing, and that still carries the connotations I talked about earlier.

    Again, was “hysterical” too much of a dog whistle for you?

  15. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    No one suggested that you used “hysterical” and that’s not what histrionic comes from. I JUST POSTED the definitions WITH origins on the previous page, and “histrionic” comes from Latin histrionicus which means “actor”. What would drama have history, which comes from historia?

    And, yes, “so called feminist” is “ironic” because you talked about a feminist blog piece which we assume you either found because, likely, you’re an angry MRA linked to it and you’re using it as a defense for trolling by pretending to be a feminism. Because we get trolls ALL THE TIME trying to do that shit.

    You are acting exactly like a common variety of troll on our forums so we’re treating you like one.

  16. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    Ninja’d by Paradoxical. T3T

  17. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    What you sad has nothing to do with psychology or psychiatry but instead are using the word as an adjective to describe how two group of people view something. And if you were trying to use the word in a medical, you sure as shit did it wrong, because not even professional can diagnose an entire group of people over the internet.

    Thus your use of the word is ableist and you not correcting and apologizing just shows you are not interested in the community as it’s part of our rules. People get banned for continuing ignoring our no ableist language rule. If you apologize and say you were wrong and do not defend your usage or try to use ableist language again, we’d have better faith in you. But you aren’t. It’s like you don’t care, which of course you don’t.

    Instead of stopping and thinking about what you’re writing and thinking critically about what we’re writing back, you’re pushing against the rules, as if they don’t apply to you. Newsflash: We ALL follow these rules, including not necroing threads and not using ableist language. If you continue this, you WILL get banned because we ban such tedious behavior on this forum. We don’t have time for this shit.

    I’m quoting my modded comment because I hope this goes through because this is an important part.

  18. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    Here’s the other part.

    Look at that. Not one, “I’m sorry. I won’t use such language again.” Instead, you say it ISN’T ableist and try to turn it around on US. Fun fact: Narcissism isn’t a mental illness, it’s a trait (and Freuden, which makes it pretty bunk, which you should know from your parents), while Histrionic Personality Disorder is a disorder. Traits and disorders are different, which, again, you should know from your parents.

    Lastly, I asked for the link because you mentioned it (in one of the above quotes, in fact), so the burden of proof, showing the article in question, was on you since you mentioned the fact. Citing your sources and all that.

    However, why should we have to google “feminism basics” when you have perfectly functioning internet and search bar (unless you use Bing or Ask or whatever)? Literally, just type in “basics of feminism” and you’ll probably get philosophy websites or feminist blogs or something. It’s not hard.

    The difference between you having to link and us not having to link is that you’re mentioning a very specific article, which means if any of us tried to google it, we could get a completely different article and not be on the same page. However, there is no single “basics of feminism” post and there are dozens of perfectly good sites that cover it, so you can just google that yourself. There is no single “Feminism 101″ we all cite.

    If this goes through, the reason I’m in moderation is because I quoted Thatonegirl.

    I’m not gonna wait all night for my comment to go through goddamnit.

  19. Boom. There it is. Well done, Jackie!

    (Also, check your Steam. I sent you a link of more leaked Deadpool footage.)

  20. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    DEADPOOL SQEEEE~~~~~<3<3<3 ILU

  21. I’m not calling you out. Calling you out would be this:
    ahem, LIES! SLANDER OMG’D >:(
    MISANDRY! Hate Groups you say? Well I never.
    DIVORCE!!! DIVORCE EVERYWHERE! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

    What I actually did was say that MRA’s are more likely to distort reality while Feminists are more likely to distort the latest cheescake paranormal romance. I see now that, that was a stupid thing to put here, you are right it was out of place. I’m sorry

  22. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    Thank you very much for your apology. <3 We all make mistakes. We just shouldn't dig in our heels.

  23. Pandapool -- The Species that Endangers YOU (aka Banana Jackie Cake, for those who still want to call me "Banana", "Jackie" or whatever)

    And what you’re talking about is feminists critiquing works in a feminist light. It’s not what feminism is all about but it’s something some feminist do. Critiquing works is the best way to point out patterns in society that are good or less than savory as media isn’t just something to entertain but a mirror of society. Whatever you read, watch or listen to is colored by the society and culture it comes from and thus can have misogynist, racist, colorist, ableist, etc. views in it, whether unintentionally or no.

  24. Scented Fucking Hard Chairs

    @troll

    You know, I actually have no problem with the word “Histrionic” as long as it’s used as a synonym for “Hysterical” without the sexist connotations and not used as an ableist slur. Except you’re pretending that it’s not a synonym, highlighting the sexist connotations and using it as an ableist slur. So, y’know, expect snark.

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