More terrible MRA thoughts on Sally Ride
Sally Ride, not thinking about boys.
We’ve already heard from the so-called Thinking Housewife on the subject of Sally Ride. Meanwhile, over on The Spearhead, the regulars also have opinions about Ride. Regular commenter Keyster has this to say about Ride’s work in promoting science and technology education for girls:
She was supposed to have inspired a generation of girls to take science and math. While she may have inspired the “Grrl Esteem” movement, very few girls went on to get degrees in math and science as a result of Sally Ride … .
She was frustrated by the fact young girls were very interested in math and science initially, “…but for some reason we lose them around the age of 13.” MMmmm…I wonder why that would be. Because they discovered an interest in boys? Not surprisingly, Sally was able to keep her interest.
That’s right: girls are incapable of thinking about both math and boys. Lesbians are the only women who can sustain an interest in math, because their brains aren’t cluttered with thoughts of Justin Bieber. (Ok, bad example.)
In another comment, Keyster expresses his annoyance at the fact that Ride turned out to be capable of astronautery despite being a woman.
Sally Ride proved that a woman can have “the right stuff”, like Amelia Earheart proved a woman can fly long distances.
OK so now that we know she won’t become hysterical during her period while in outerspace and allow her used tampons to clog the toilet, what do we do with this information? Just because a woman accomplishes something normally associated with men, is this inspiring young girls to spontaneously excel en masse and compete against men in male dominated arenas? Or are women like Sally Ride the exceptions that prove the rule?
You know, “exceptions that prove the rule” aren’t actually a thing. The fact that Ride was a capable astronaut doesn’t actually “prove the rule” that women aren’t capable as astronauts, but instead suggests that this particular rule is not a real rule. You would think that Keyster, as a logical male, would understand this.
Posted on July 31, 2012, in antifeminism, homophobia, I'm totally being sarcastic, irony alert, misogyny, MRA, the spearhead. Bookmark the permalink. 452 Comments.
They’re attacking a recently deceased astronaut?
What, they couldn’t find any orphans with cancer to make fun of?
Yes. An exception that proves the rule: “police officers running their lights shall not be bound to the speed limit.” Thus proving the speed limit rule, as the necessity of an exception means it would apply otherwise.
Exceptions to your clever rules about what women can do… don’t prove your rules. They break them. That’s just dumb. Get over it.
(to take David’s wonderfully eloquent and concise explanation and get all technical and stuff)
Further: yeah, she did fail to get women to excel in those spaces YOU CONTINUE TO TRY TO LOCK THEM OUT OF!!!!
Disingenuous jerks.
http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/upload/whysofew.pdf
A PDF, sorry.
Of note:
So, you go on and keep telling me how Sally Ride failed. I see nothing but a bright success there, despite your best efforts, guys. It’s not a done deal yet, and there’s work to do, but she damn well started something you can’t stop.
>Men are incredibly horny and will rape women if provoked with bare flesh, so we must put all rapes (Not that they’re real) on the slutty sluts who provoked men
>But it’s women who can’t maintain thoughts of Math or Science while tempted with boys.
FYI, MRAs, lesbians lust, it’s just after women…
Hands up, all people who have both math degrees and at least one relationship!
He knows that lesbians tend to develop an interest in women around that time, right?
If the argument is that only people without sexual desire can excel at math and science, then the word he’s looking for is “asexual.”
If the argument is that dating men ruins your aptitude for math and science, then we need to explore what the hell men are doing to their dates.
The most talented women in math and science have some degree of masculine personality traits. Regardless of sexual orientation.
FULL DISCLOSURE: English lit degree here.
I can do algebra, and trig, and a bit of calculus, but college-level calc and physics kicked my arse.
Never minding that in the phrase “the exception proves the rule,” the word “proves” was traditionally understood in its alternative meaning of “tests” (as in “proving grounds,” where vehicles are tested before being sent to market).
Thus, “the exception proves the rule” doesn’t mean “the exception demonstrates that the rule is sound,” but “the exception tests whether or not the rule is actually a rule.” Which, in that sense, is exactly what Sally Ride did – tested the “rule” that “only men could hack it in space.” And found it was not so.
Howardbann1ster – That’s an MRA no-win scenario. If girls and women aren’t excelling at hard sciences, it proves they’re not capable; if they are excelling at hard sciences, it proves the field is getting watered down and men are being forced out of it.
There’s no scenario in which women are actually contributing to the field because they’re good at it.
If there’s one idea I could banish from humanity,** it would be “the exception proves the rule.”
No. The exception tests the rule. (IIRC, it’s a bastardized version of something Aristotle wrote about, which is that a stated exception establishes a rule. Don’t quote me on that.)
Long story short, it is a silly mental shortcut and I almost always see it used in the context of discussions* about gender.
* Read: sexist statements.
** Okay, it would actually be the Dorito-shell taco. Ew.
If you believe aptitude in math and science is a masculine personality trait, then you are technically correct!
YOU WIN THE SEXIST TAUTOLOGY AWARD!!!
Something you should know about me: I am a transhumanist. That means that I’m pretty sure the only effective way to make the world a better place is to transcend humanity. That’s why I look up to women who forgo having children and go through life acting as though they were men, but with modern contraceptives they can still sleep with men too. ;)
for made up values of ‘masculine traits’ that a dumb teenager pulled out his ass
… Or it could be that the most talented people in math and science share some degree of personality traits, and people just call them masculine because of the stereotype that women are Not Deep Thinkers, flighty and unserious.
Also also, there’s the phenomenon of ascribing positively-valued personality traits to men, and negatively-valued personality traits to women.
In other words, get your head out of the math-is-hard-Barbie era.
That’s not the sexiest tautology award, by the way. The sexiest tautology award goes to the sentiment “Baby, I’ll do anything tonight that I do tonight.”
well, it’s good to know you’re not limiting yourself to one flavor of pretentious gibberish
Aaaand it’s already been taken care of. I love you guize.
FTFY
Folks, snopes has an excellent page on ‘the exception proves the rule.’
Here.
Actually I’m pretty sure they’re just acting as though they were childless women.
How many women have to act a certain way before it stops being “acting like a man?” Cripes.
Of course you are. YEt another tech-based movement that is hilariously sexist: Now with science fiction*.
Of course, the weak, willowy men who stay inside and excel in math the most also have feminine traits, according to modern day constructions of the word ‘feminine’. I hear they don’t do sports, even! *Eyeroll*
Nope, you just want to bang hot lady droids in orbit around the further stars.
You know who else wanted to perfect humanity by cutting away all the human frailties?
Cybermen!
The Borg!
Humans are OK as they are, and you’re not going to solve greed and crime and callous disregard for others by making us all robots.
Also, yay for transhumanism! Go be something better and stop bothering those of us who actually care to try to change the human race. You don’t get to ascend by trolling message boards.
You can do that after you ascend much more efficiently.
By the by, some days I have the depressing thought that maybe Om-nom is right, and humanity can’t be changed for the better.
But I’d still rather fight that to the end that give up and just dwell in the darkness, letting it get worse, not even trying to help those stuck in this world with me. You become part of the problem in that formulation.
And even if I can’t make this a better world, I can damn well stop making it a worse world.
Quite often, these people are direct, logical, emotionally stable, often conventional, and not fickle, flighty, or manipulative. Unfortunately, fickleness is far too common among women(especially when they’re young).
‘…still rather fight to the end THAN give in…’
SIGH.
for values of ‘women’ that a dumb teenager pulled out of his ass
And men are never fickle. Especially not when young.
Way to directly prove the point, you ass.
nameless baby, we get that you think girls have cooties, so what else are you trying to prove here?
I hate it when people say “it’s the exception that proves the rule,” and MRAs seem to say it a lot. I’m glad you noticed it too, because it’s the epitome of mental laziness, and every time someone uses it to support their point, I want to scratch my own eyes out.
Oh shut the fuck up! (goes to look at more kitty pictures)
You’re aware I can vote, right? Really no reason for the worry.
I get the sense that the walking contradiction is a math major trying to make himself look good.
Fickle is MRA speak for having the audacity to be selective when looking for a partner. Those bitches!
basically when someone says ‘im a transhumanist’ what i hear is ‘i think the matrix was based on a true story’
Sounds like you don’t seem to understand MY view of transhumanism: I’m not in favor of modifying human beings to correct their imperfections, I’m in favor of ultimately replacing humanity with an entirely new species, created by humans, which is even more intelligent and more complex than us.Do tell me how that is *sexist*.
:D
WE ARE SAVED!!!
….
Of course, I’ve seen Mitt Romney’s polling numbers. And as long as a non-zero amount of people think that he’s a perfectly okay person to vote for, maybe just not far enough right-wing, I will continue to occasionally think that there is something very wrong with people.
But on good days I remember that it is only because of a massive propaganda machine that he has any chance, and that even a die-hard ideologue fundie can change… and I have hope.
So you admit that you’re a retard and don’t comprehend what “transhumanism” actually is. Got it.
That and it’s usually backed up with an allusion to their libertarianism. I also hear, “asshole, do not engage.”
Sorry to disappoint you hellkell, but I am not a libertarian.
Ooo, got linked to a good read on libertarianism.
It’s hip, it’s cool, it’s libertarianism!
Good read.
Om Nom, do you think you’re oh-so-edgy using abelist slurs? Guess again, chump.
What political affiliation/philosophy does a transhumanist claim, Nommie?
But, my dear Om Nom, you ARE an asshole.
‘kay.
Reducing women to their ability to birth children
Defining positive traits as male by default.
Making shit up about women as a whole, then congratulating yourself on how terrible women are.
I don’t really care about the movement as seen in Plato’s Cave, I care about the real world, and these flaws aren’t just found in you. Plenty of sexist idiots parrot similar within transhumanism.
i get that it’s a bunch of self-important pseudo-intellectuals playing robot in their backyards, ya
It’s misogynists who get hysterical over menstruation.
I mean, duh, Nommie. You don’t get to say ‘women are so dumb!’ and then pretend you LIKE women. ‘I mean, that is, this woman is smart! She isn’t like other women! She’s EXCEPTIONAL!’ I.e., an exception to my rule about how women suck.
That’s like textbook misogyny. Like a definition from the dictionary. I mean, honestly, it doesn’t even feel like you’re TRYING.
Oh yeah, well, sure, if you collect poor personality traits together, and positive personality traits together, and assign one set to the dominant gender and the other set to the marginalized gender, you can talk about gender-essentialism all you want to.
But you’ve missed the point that you’ve set these things up this way, and actual people are not actually like the model you’ve got in your head.
You can decide that Lois Lane’s mind is so fragile that, if she believes she’s a witch and yet finds out that she can’t fly or actually do witchety things, she’ll go insane, and so Superman has to feed her delusion*, but if you decide that this entirely odd psychological set up is down to Lane having a vag, you’re being sexist and a right asshole.
*Seriously, this was an actual issue of Superman’s Girlfriend Lois Lane, and not the one where Lois actually becomes a witch (which has to be stopped because she could be better than Supes, and we can’t possibly have that), but I can’t find an image of the cover online in anything like enough time that this comment will still be relevant.
I don’t associate with other transhumanists, so I wouldn’t know. However, I personally tend to favor authoritarianism since I believe that people in general need to be controlled and when they are free, they used their freedom to be destructive and hurtful to others. I’d like to think of myself as a Stalinist, actually.
@Dracula: I think when half the commentariat gets to it before you it goes from ‘Ninjaed’ to ‘Smallarmyofninjaed’
I’m sure women will continue to make progress in the fields of math and science. I mean, look how far we’ve come in the past few decades.
oh god lol
Oh, Nommie, Nommie, Nommie. You really are transparently bad at this.
All our trolls lately seem to be such tryhards.
You gotta keep it subtle, dude! If you go straight to “and feed kittens to Hitler” you lose all your troll cred.
Ruby’s comment is deliciously out of context. I almost feel sorry for her.
(thinks about it for a second)
Almost.
However, I personally tend to favor authoritarianism since I believe that people in general need to be controlled and when they are free, they used their freedom to be destructive and hurtful to others. I’d like to think of myself as a Stalinist, actually.
Om Nom, I can only assume you’re being ironic here.
@Ugh: I know, right?
@Dani Alexis
Thank you for the explanation. That makes sense. Of course, MRAs are still doing it wrong.
Is it just me, or is calling yourself a “transhumanist” pretty much 100% correlated with being an over-privileged hateful twerp? I have no idea why this is, but I for real have never seen it otherwise.
I’m pretty sure that 99% of transhumanist “activism” involves going on the internet to tell actual activists that grievances problems aren’t a big deal.
You’re wrong about that. I meant ever word when I said that I have authoritarian beliefs.
was there any chance that the dude who goes by ‘monsieur sans nom’ wasn’t going to be a tryhard?
Any woman who demonstrates any sort of success, intelligence, competency, or interest in any area other than mothering, housekeeping, and looking sexy, is by default exhibiting masculine personality traits.
LOL! If you knew anything about my personal life(offline) and how people treat me you’d eat those words, my friend.
Those who are underprivileged have far more of an incentive to hate the world than those with excessive privilege.
you have to have no actual problems to worry about before you can start thinking ‘wouldnt it be cooler if i was a five-dimensional sex robot’
do you behave like a titanic asshole offline too, dude? because that might explain it…
Eh, I think it would be cool if I was a five-dimensional sex robot.
However, I recognize that current technology is nowhere near that and I don’t have the skillset to advance it much, so I don’t spend a whole lot of time or commit a lot of my ego to wanting to be a five-dimensional sex robot.
Wait, Nommie, your first thought on the subject of privilege is HOW PEOPLE TREAT YOU??? You mean the people throwing you in jail allatime, right? Because… privilege is not just about how folks treat you, ya know.
And if I did really, really badly want to be a five-dimensional sex robot, I’d spend more time studying electrical engineering and computer science and robotics, less time arbitrarily deciding which of women’s traits were really secret man traits.
Statistically untrue. Financial stability and income are negatively correlated with morality.
http://www.dailycal.org/2012/02/28/rich-people-are-more-likely-to-behave-unethically-study-finds/
Most people who “hate the world,” statistically speaking, are hyper-priveleged people who expect the world to give them everything and then get angry when it doesn’t.
No, actually. Just on the internets! :p
You see kid, in your sheltered world, life is always fair in that people are always treated the way they treat others. But the real world don’t work that way. People really do judge you on things you don’t have any control over. If you have a non-physical disability, people are going to look down on you, ridicule you, and exclude you. And being male certainly doesn’t help ameliorate this worth a damn. But enough about my personal life for now.
Cliff: 5 dimensional objects are not possible in this Universe. WTF is wrong with a 3-dimensional robot? Humans are 3-dimensional, ya know! ;)