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Men’s Liber-urination: How installing home urinals will save the world from misandry

Men’s Liberation starts here!

What’s the deal with MRAs and urinals? You may recall the highly touted “URLs @ urinals” campaign from last year, a plan to plaster little posters over urinals in public bathrooms to lure peeing men to Men’s Rights websites; evidently the way to a man’s heart is through his urethra?

Then there was that big to-do in the Men’s Rights subreddit when a Canadian restauranteur removed a urinal shaped like a woman’s lips after some feminists complained about it.

Oh, and who can forget GirlWritesWhat’s weird FemRA lament that men hanging out in men’s bathrooms can’t even bitch about women any more due the encroachment of evil mangina language police. (Note: Men in public bathrooms do not actually talk to one another.)

Well, now the MRA videoblogger who goes by the nom-de-internet of ManWomanMyth has weighed in on the Urinal Problem in a long and rambling blog post titled, and I am not making this up, “Urinals – a genesis for male psychology?”

MWM (let’s just call him that) argues that “male spaces” have been so encroached upon by evil feminists that men have no place they can truly call their own.

Why are female spaces inviolate and male spaces forcibly opened to females?

Why are males spaces not seen to be equally as important as female spaces?

I’ll tell you why, it’s because under our Feminist governance, anything that maintains or leads to any concept of male camaraderie or the enhancement of male self-awareness is actively attacked and suppressed. It’s vital in our society to strip men of their identity as ‘men’ so that they can be assaulted in the myriad ways. …

By preventing the development of male-bonding and understanding between men (which is difficult enough, even under the best of circumstances) men are successfully kept isolated from each other and more easily used and abused.

Seriously, he’s got a point here. If you look at the various photos of corporate Boards of Directors I gathered together in this old post, you’ll notice that a couple of them even have some ladies in them!

So what does this have to do with urinals? MWM explains:

This is where urinals-in-the-home comes in. …

By installing one in your home, what I think is being done is making a claim to a portion of space and making that claim based solely on the fact of your manhood.

Only men can successfully stand up to pee, women have no choice but to sit down. This is a point of difference that has little relevance in normal daily life, but has every relevance to male psychology.

You see, the urinal is just for you as a man. It’s impossible for her to use it. It’s for you. For your son. For your male friends.

In other words, MWM thinks that men (cis men, anyway) should have them installed in their bathrooms for no other reason than that (cis) woman can’t use them. In your face, bitches! Try peeing in THIS! YOU CAN’T!!

Though I should note that this does not stop women from trying, as this album cover from the 1970s clearly documents:

MWM goes on to explain the logic behind this new crusade:

There is no means by which the exclusive use of the urinal can be taken away from you by any claims of unfairness or any other irrational female claim.

There can be no quotas for the female use of urinals; there can be no Presidential Council for Women and Girls calling for more ‘Women into Urinals’; the UK Minister for Women could create no tax-payer funded programme to encourage girls to be the same as men and use urinals.

It’s yours because you are male and can only remain yours.

Now you might ask yourself, why the fuck would anyone care about this? MWM has an answer to that question as well:

Why is this important?

I think that this is an example of a beginning, a genesis for male self-awareness. Particularly if you have a young boy in the household. It could well be the first thing and perhaps even the only thing he will ever encounter in his young life that is not ‘equally’ open to girls and there is no ‘equalities’ agency that can do anything about it.

Most boys grow up today having to play every sport and share every activity with girls and woe betide him if he seeks to win or is too aggressive. …

The urinal could be the only thing in his life that is for him and exclusively for him and others who are like him in only one essential way: they are also male. …

This is a little space in the bathroom, a little space in his life, where his sister can’t go and doesn’t want to go and couldn’t go if she did want to. It’s off limits because she is not male. …

A urinal is not particularity interesting in itself, but it may well be a first step in the development of a sense of self for boys and men that otherwise typically never happens or else is savagely crushed in men. A catalyst towards a sense of what it means to be male and a first seed of understanding of the essential difference between the sexes which goes beyond mere anatomy. …

This is where anti-misandry starts.

While all this is very moving, I don’t think it goes far enough. Consider the Home Pregnancy Test. This is something that woman can pee on, but men can’t – at least not without being ridiculed by society for peeing on such a girly thing.

Wait, you might say. If (cis) men get urinals to pee on, why can’t (cis) women have these little sticks that they can pee on? Because these pregnancy tests involve little chemical strips that CHANGE COLOR when you pee on them, depending on whether or not you’re pregnant. Urinals don’t change color! And that’s not FAIR!

STICKS FOR DICKS!

Now THAT’S where anti-misandry really starts!

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Posted on July 21, 2012, in actual activism, antifeminism, FemRAs, I'm totally being sarcastic, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, penises, precious bodily fluids, urinals. Bookmark the permalink. 148 Comments.

  1. Urinals don’t change color! And that’s not FAIR!

    Color-changing urinals? Sure, why not. I can think of several ways to make that happen, if you can promise me that the MRA market is worth tapping. Last thing I want is a warehouse full of novelty urinals and a bunch of guys on reddit going ‘cool, maybe I’ll buy it…someday.’

  2. creativewritingstudent

    I think such a thing exists. It reacts to amonia and changes colour according to how much amonia is sprayed on it. It would be like a rainbow formed by piss! You can even see the most popular pee trails.

  3. Is the reaction permanent? Because I was thinking temperature-sensitive, so that you made your mark and then afterwards it cools back to plain so that the next guy has a clean slate, so to speak.

  4. creativewritingstudent

    I have honestly no idea. I tripped over it during my relentless search for random trivia and bizarre gifs.

  5. creativewritingstudent

    I think heat-sensitive would probably best for home use. I had the misfortune of living last year with an otherwise nice chap with some terrible hygene habits, one of which was leaving disturbing yellow stains around the inside of the bowl…

    (His other was pinching my plates for his food and then leaving them unwashed for months. His crockery was in the box filled with broken crockery coated in dust and mouldy food…
    Oh, and he used my cups as ashtrays. Never, ever living with a smoker again.)

  6. creativewritingstudent

    The rim of the bowl. Sorry, today has been tiring. *sleeps on face*

  7. creativewritingstudent — pun-y, though that was apparently lost on JeanM (either that or JeanM is trying to make a funny and failing in comparison)

    It was no lamer than looking for a “stud” which she’s unlikely to find. :)

  8. @ Nana-there are lower urinals for midgets and kids.

  9. Now where I’m from, children have gender-seperated PE lessons from age ten onwards. though honestly – I think it would do the girls good to have more PE together with the boys. To us it seemed like they had very little drive to actually actively engage in the curriculum. Or at least we used to beat them easily at volleyball. And god, did we hate volleyball until it finally stopped being painful as fuck.

  10. Argenti Aertheri

    “It was no lamer than looking for a “stud” which she’s unlikely to find”

    You’re one of those trolls who think ending things with smilies makes them okay, huh? It doesn’t. In non-puns, your walls have studs every 18″ usually, potentially every 24″ on newer construction; in puns, wtf does it matter what’s likely? No but I get the point there, you’re trying to say that creativewritingstudent couldn’t possibly date a stud, which takes multiple assumptions — 1) that ze’s female, 2) that ze is interested in men (or that studs come in female, or non-male, form), 3) that ze is interested in a partner in general.

  11. Argenti Aertheri

    Kakanian — I think you might be on the wrong thread? Though damn do I agree on volleyball being painful.

  12. I’m confused. Why is volleyball painful?

  13. I didn’t think JeanM was a troll. I’m a little confused. Zie made several pertinent and perfectly fine comments, and then played along with the stud/gelding thing with a “that’s misandry!” come-back that’s in keeping with the jokes lots of people here make (e.g. scented candles), and now everything’s gone all weird.

    Is this all a big misunderstanding, or am I ignorant of some relevant history here?

  14. I really hate manwomanmyth. Probably more than WTF Price and JtO, though it’s a close call. He is probably the most misogynist, in that he seems to be angry that women exist, walking free in the world and he has to look at them. He has said he resents the female athletes competing in the Olympics and the TV time they’re given. He thinks men and women should compete, and if the women lose, “suck it up ladies, you’re just inferior.” He is truly a horrible person. It further shows how laughable the MRM is that this person his held up as a “philosophical” moderate. I guess not calling women c*nts makes you a moderate in the MRM.

    About the urinals. My friend is one of three boys, and they put in a urinal in their bathroom. The mother was the only woman in the house, and she had her own bathroom. I can only imagine the amount of pee she had to mop up off the floor before the urinal was installed. And yeah, these MRAs have no idea what goes into keeping a bathroom clean.

  15. Hi manboobz readers. I saw one of those spearhead fliers at the local walmart in lancaster! :O

    So I tore it down (:

  16. Argenti Aertheri

    burgundy — I may just be in a particularly cranky mood, JeanM’s jokes being followed by both “lame” and “midget” set off my “you really don’t give a shit about ableism huh?” thus pointing towards troll. It’s possible that the stud line above was another joke that fell flat on me. Between NWO’s comments on my being “uncissed” and reading about the Aurora shooting, I’m cranky.

    Cassandra — volleyball is painful because you’re likely to hit a wrist bone, which hurts if you aren’t used to it.

  17. creativewritingstudent

    @Argenti Aetheri

    It’s a joke. A joke that’s one endless repeat of Dolly Parton CDs from being my secondary school experience. It’s meant to be an insulty joke, but it kinda falls flat because I didn’t care when I was 14 and I don’t care now.

    0/10, I’m more offended by the lack of effort.

    I’d say troll. Lazy troll.

  18. Argenti Aertheri

    creativewritingstudent — yeah, that was what I was thinking — not a troll in our usual sense, but a typical lulz troll who’s failing the lulz. Trying to crack a joke about how you won’t finda stud is closer to an insult than a joke. “You won’t find a partner” is just so typical an insult though.

  19. Ref: Urination

    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-actors-who-do-exact-same-thing-in-every-movie/

    In at #5, Tom Hanks’ Career is a Urinary Morality Play

  20. And see, I thought the stud comment was a call-back to prior comments about not being able to find actual, in-the-wall studs. Although I guess the quotation marks don’t really help my argument. I don’t have good troll-dar. (Also, from other sites, I am way too familiar with people who are great on feminism and racism but fail horribly on ableism, so often what that says to me is “this person needs some speaking to” as opposed to “this person is automatically a troll.”)

  21. Because I’m on cracked.com right now and am curious, has anybody ever heard of a DickHat?

  22. Freitag, I was just reading that the other day! The DickHats crack me up. Especially because my ex and I always used to refer to condoms as hats – going shopping for hats, “I think it’s time for you to put on your hat.” etc. I’m still considering sending him a link to that.

  23. Now where I’m from, children have gender-seperated PE lessons from age ten onwards. though honestly – I think it would do the girls good to have more PE together with the boys. To us it seemed like they had very little drive to actually actively engage in the curriculum. Or at least we used to beat them easily at volleyball. And god, did we hate volleyball until it finally stopped being painful as fuck.

    Speaking as someone who had co-ed PE throughout middle and high school, I have to disagree – I would have loved gym classes divided by gender, because my experience was that in any sort of team activity, the girls mostly didn’t have “drive” specifically because a lot of the boys were exhibiting ridiculous, obnoxious, massively aggressive levels of “drive” (which I would probably rename “stupid macho-man hyper-competitive bullshit”). Activities that were theoretically supposed to be about promoting physical fitness frequently turned into the guys screaming, “HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT, YOU FUCKING MORON?!” at the girls, shoving them out of the way, and generally exhibiting all the douchiest traits of the recently-pubescent. Understandably, if sadly, most of the girls responded to this by deciding we didn’t need that shit and would just do our best to participate as little as possible.

    Don’t get me wrong – I was a varsity athlete, I liked playing competitive team sports, I’ve got no problem with competition in appropriate settings and at appropriate levels, but the same sort of guys who feel like using a toilet instead of a urinal would emasculate them were once 14-year-olds, and back then, they were busy feeling like if Team People-Who-Got-Handed-a-Red-Jersey-Today didn’t win this gym class volleyball game, their penises would magically fall off on the spot, and if the path to gym class victory required shoving the kid half their size down and stomping on them in order to get at the ball, that kid was damn well getting stomped.

    (So, really, I suppose what I want is for gym classes to be divided into “people who are here to get some exercise and hopefully have a bit of fun doing it” and “people who are here to DOMINATE.” I would have had no problem sharing a gym class with the boys who didn’t act ridiculous, and I’d like them to have a refuge from the ridiculous kids, too. Someone should figure out how to make that happen.)

  24. Argenti Aertheri

    “So, really, I suppose what I want is for gym classes to be divided into “people who are here to get some exercise and hopefully have a bit of fun doing it” and “people who are here to DOMINATE.””

    Considering I got a toe broken by an asshole in the latter group, I second that thought. Not acting like anyone who just wants to toss a ball around is somehow failing the purpose of gym class might be a start — gym teachers, at least at my HS, seemed to have a much wider margin of allowed douche-ness than any other teachers. Could you imagine a history teacher going on about how the girls might have to learn history? No? I had a gym teacher go on, at length, about how the girls might have to get their hair wet to swim…not “get swim caps if you don’t want wet hair” but “spoiled princess” (basically, not in those exact words).

    This non-binary politely requests not sorting by gender though, I like the above categories better.

    Mr. “you might have to get your hair wet” was the same gym teacher who wouldn’t give me a nurses pass when that idiot broke my damned toe, Worst. Teacher. EVAR (I couldn’t have a pass because I must’ve just been looking for an excuse to “get out of class”…while limping…a decade later I still want to tell him to go fuck himself…)

    Can you tell which group I was? Even swimming, the sport I do actually do, I just wanted to swim laps, I didn’t really care if I swam THE MOST LAPS!!

  25. I wonder how this guy would feel if he knew that in the “good old days” of the Victorian Era there were lots of female urinals.

    They were built to accommodate women in corsets and hoops. As dresses like that faded from fashion, so too the female urinal.

  26. Argenti Aertheri

    pecunium — do you mean with or without running water? You’ve managed to find something Victorian that I didn’t know, and have thus caught my interest. (Omgs hoop skirts, those things are nose-breakingly evil)

  27. This non-binary politely requests not sorting by gender though, I like the above categories better.

    Touche, gender-sorting definitely screws over anyone outside the gender binary, and that should have shown up somewhere in my comment. I’m going to blame sleepiness for this one.

    And yeah, gym teachers frequently seem to be exceedingly awful. My “favorite” one liked to yell at kids who were clearly, clearly not built for particular sports that they were “losers, and would always be losers.” (Not that that’s an okay thing to shout at any kid, but it was an extra level of fucking stupid watching him yell at, say, my friend who stood a whopping 4’9” at age 18 about how she sucked forever because she wasn’t super-great at spiking volleyballs.)

  28. In the TMI dept. By and large I sit to piss. It’s more comfortable. I certainly do it in the night, because hate to turn the light on, and it’s easier.

    The only reason to stand is that I’m in a public restroom (and so am more vulnerable if my pants are down), or my clothes are just too much hassle to remove.

    For different TMI: When I was in Iraq we did lots of convoys, some of them were pretty long. Guys would piss in bottles. Some were bad at it. One of my troops (a female) was able to do it just fine.

    I still have no idea how; she didn’t have an STP. But let me tell you, lots of female soldiers I know have them, and they use them to piss in the urinals, because getting all that gear off, just to take a piss, is a royal pain in the ass.

  29. Argenti: I don’t think studfinders are magentometers. I think they are some sort of sonar based densitometers. I’ve never had a problem using them.

  30. Argenti: I think most of them were san water, though I am sure some has constant flow. They were long projections of enameled iron, so that a woman could lift her skirt and (wearing split bloomers) straddle them and let go.

  31. Argenti Aertheri

    “Not that that’s an okay thing to shout at any kid, but it was an extra level of fucking stupid watching him yell at, say, my friend who stood a whopping 4’9” at age 18 about how she sucked forever because she wasn’t super-great at spiking volleyballs.”

    Yeah, that’s definitely its own category of stupid. I really can’t imagine any other type of teacher getting away with that, can you imagine this — “you can’t name all 50 state capitals?! You suck and will suck forever!”? Or “what do I need algebra for?” “to not suck forever!” Yeah, I see both of those ending in the teacher getting reprimanded, yet gym teachers are allowed to be assholes. Gym teachers being more of the “knock it off, just because you’re good at the sport doesn’t mean everyone has to be!” variety would almost certainly help here.

    “I don’t think studfinders are magentometers. I think they are some sort of sonar based densitometers. I’ve never had a problem using them.”

    Do you buy the expensive kind? The cheap ones I had thought were magnet based, but the expensive ones might actually work.

    “I think most of them were san water, though I am sure some has constant flow. They were long projections of enameled iron, so that a woman could lift her skirt and (wearing split bloomers) straddle them and let go.”

    Ah ok, I’d known about the trough type, but had thought that fell out of favor with the “invention” of flush toilets (more things Rome did two thousand years before the rest of us…)

    “Guys would piss in bottles. Some were bad at it.”

    …how do you fucking fail at that?! I don’t really want to know, I just don’t frikken get it…

    “The only reason to stand is that I’m in a public restroom (and so am more vulnerable if my pants are down)…”

    Stalls have locks, usually, I mastered the fine art of holding the door closed with my foot back in HS. A locked stall seems like more protection than a urinal would provide, but gustibus non disputandum est :)

  32. @Ithiliana-well DKM does make a point about provocation that seems to make sense. Every normal person can be provoked and pushed too far at times where they may respond in an unpleasant manner.

  33. I wish PE classes were segregated by ability, regardless of gender. I think both the athletic and the unathletic kids are totally sapped of their motivation when they’re constantly playing games where everyone knows who’s going to win.

    I guess being assigned to the “weak group” at PE would be sort of embarrassing? But then you can get some good competition going between the weak kids and make them feel like their efforts actually make a relative difference. And meanwhile you can give the strong kids an actual challenge instead of just letting them win by steamrolling totally intimidated opponents.

  34. JeanM – “I only think murder is okay if the murderer feels provoked” works out to, for all intents and purposes, “I think murder is okay.”

    Most murderers consider themselves sufficiently provoked. That’s not special. It’s how murder usually works. That doesn’t make it okay.

  35. Argenti Aertheri

    “I guess being assigned to the “weak group” at PE would be sort of embarrassing?”

    I was thinking it could work if you defaulted to the “meh whatever” group and could opt in to a “yeah I’m good at this” group — that kid who broke my damned toe was a soccer player treating gym soccer like a proper game (and I suck at basically every sport involving a ball, tennis being the only exception).

    JeanM – “I only think murder is okay if the murderer feels provoked” works out to, for all intents and purposes, “I think murder is okay.”

    Most murderers consider themselves sufficiently provoked. That’s not special. It’s how murder usually works. That doesn’t make it okay.

    It’s also quite a leap from a “normal person can be provoked [to] respond in an unpleasant manner” to murder — most people can be provoked into calling you an asshole, maybe even a fist fight, but murder? (And bad timing much? Aren’t we already questioning what makes murderers “snap”? Maybe not justify it for oh, idk, a week?)

  36. CassandraSays

    You know what would be really awesome? If we could get through a single week without one of the trolls posting something that amounts to “yay, homicide!”.

  37. Ohhh I fucking hated P.E., and mine was gender segregated. The ultra-competitiveness and willingness to stamp down anyone in your way is pretty present in alot of girls that age as well.

    If we were given a choice, I used to hang around and play badminton or squash with my friends, and that was cool, but there was nothing so humiliating as being dragged out to play football, shoved immediately into goal and then informed “you have to stop the ball, you know…” >.<

    Teachers rly rly didn't help this atmosphere, I think picking teams is HORRIBLE for children to go through, as someone who was often picked last. The two sportiest girls pick one by one who they would like, until you are left standing alone and someone is forced to take you. It still brings me out in a cold sweat now. This mostly happened when I was playing netball, which I was actually pretty good at as it wasn't as intense and gave you time to stop and think.

    I went to a great deal of effort to skive off P.E. lessons, and it was nothing to do with being lazy.

    (Also changing rooms are fun when you are 'still' wearing a sports bra and forgot to shave under your arms that day! O the horror!)

  38. There are urinals for women in South Korea. They’re the troughs inside the subway station public bathrooms. Ladies: drop trou, grab the handles on the wall, step up onto an elevated platform, swing that ass out over the trough, squat, and let it go. I’m not even kidding. I’VE DONE THIS. Suffice to say I’d rather piss in an outdoor field.

    Also, squat toilets in both men’s and women’s restrooms are the pits, especially in winter, ESPECIALLY when having to deal with pantyhose. #Protip: if you’re dressing up in Asia and need stockings, wear thigh-highs. It’ll make peeing much easier.

  39. “I guess being assigned to the “weak group” at PE would be sort of embarrassing? But then you can get some good competition going between the weak kids and make them feel like their efforts actually make a relative difference. And meanwhile you can give the strong kids an actual challenge instead of just letting them win by steamrolling totally intimidated opponents.”

    Alot of the ‘weak group’ might be pretty good once they weren’t in an environment where they had to aggressively compete with people who were the best at sport and/or much higher in the school food chain.

  40. Alot of the ‘weak group’ might be pretty good once they weren’t in an environment where they had to aggressively compete with people who were the best at sport and/or much higher in the school food chain.

    Hell yeah to this. Making kids feel like shit about themselves is not the way to imbue them with a love of physical exercise.

    I think gym class should treated more like recess, actually. Give kids a variety of play options, be they actual sports or what the fuck ever else, and let them discover something they enjoy doing.

    I also think it’s absolutely stupid that gym class is something you get graded for. “Oh yes, your kid is fully qualified to graduate in every other respect, but I’m afraid they didn’t play enough dodge ball.” I ask you, what the fuck is that?

  41. creativewritingstudent

    My PE teacher was also the pastoral care tutor. Their solutions to my problems? “Try to fit in” and “play more sports”.

    They always have this attitude that everyone likes sport as much as they do, and are as good at sport as they are. I got a lot of “if you tried harder, you’d really like it!” which I thought was balls. I was trying as hard as I could, I just sucked.

    On the plus side, I did accidentally hit the pastoral care PE teacher with a rounders bat twice and I also clipped them on the head with a badminton racket, so…
    And I broke a table-tennis table. :D

    (It’s all accidents, I’m just clumsy.)

  42. Argenti Aertheri

    “I also think it’s absolutely stupid that gym class is something you get graded for. “Oh yes, your kid is fully qualified to graduate in every other respect, but I’m afraid they didn’t play enough dodge ball.” I ask you, what the fuck is that?”

    Wtf is that = my last year of HS — I needed gym and English to graduate, and could’ve fulfilled the English credit the year before. This did mean I had a whole lot of time free my senior year (which was mostly spent trying to wrangle the GSA into something functional…and doing homework).

    In other words, I think they require 4 years of gym just to prevent people from graduating at 16.

    “I think gym class should treated more like recess, actually. Give kids a variety of play options, be they actual sports or what the fuck ever else, and let them discover something they enjoy doing.”

    And graded pas/fail if you show up and don’t just sit on your ass? As long as the “whatever the fuck you like” option had the pool open, I’d be down with that. (And I don’t mean the nice relaxing “it’s a pool” you normal people do, I mean 50+ laps in 40 min, because I’m part fish or something — you’d have to be a royal asshole to decide that wasn’t worth a passing grade)

  43. CassandraSays

    @ Effie

    I’ve always wondered how people manage with the squat toilets when wearing complicated clothing. I used them in the Middle East, and but it usually wasn’t a big deal because I was wearing either a long skirt or loose pants (since that’s all I was allowed to wear in public). But I know tons of Japanese punk/goth women who wear shorts over tights, and that seems like it would be tricky to manage with a squat toilet. I may have to ask a friend about this next time we’re both drunk.

  44. I think the world would be a better place is there were more swing sets rated to accommodate adults. If folks not getting enough exercise is a concern, why not make an effort to ensure that people don’t think of it as drudgery? What precisely is so wrong with fun?

    End rant.

  45. CassandraSays

    I could totally go for an adult-size version of one of those climbing structures made of wire that they have at playgrounds. Not that I couldn’t use the kids version, I’m short enough, but people would look at me funny.

  46. Argenti Aertheri

    Cassandra — TMI warning — pull everything down to knee level, not all the way down, idk if it’d work in a full length skirt and stockings, but works well enough in shorts or a shorter skirt (bondage pants with all those straps and buckles and dangling bits are more of a problem, stockings at least stay close to your skin).

    Short answer is, of course, that you manage with practice.

  47. CassandraSays

    @ Argenti

    I’m mostly trying to figure out how you’d do it without flashing everyone. With a skirt you can kind of shield yourself a bit, with but shorts + tights I’m thinking your ass would be fully on display. Probably less potential for mess than with a long skirt, though.

    Also I’m imagining trying to do this in 4 inch heels, or platforms, so there’s that too. The first time I tried to use a regular toilet that happened to be kind of low while wearing 6 inch platforms I had a moment where I was all, this is like being in a rapidly sinking elevator.

    (Booze does not make any of this easier.)

  48. Argenti Aertheri

    Did some call for more fun? (You know how I always plug Emilie Autumn? The Toy Soldier you all know and hate irks me big time as Dr. Steel’s toy soldiers are my FWB’s pet project to plug, and your TS is not about more fun)

  49. Argenti Aertheri

    Cassandra — sorry, no clue how you’d do it without flashing everyone. And platforms are evil in general (I can walk in 5″ heels, tiny platforms send me stumbling)

    And oh boy is NWO going to have fun with this huh? NWO, you get into a water balloon fight or something, you definitely need more fun.

  50. Argenti – Nifty! Thank you for that.

  51. CassandraSays

    I think the issue with platforms is that you can’t feel the ground under your feet at all. It takes a while to get used to. I’ve never had any issue with heels, but I nearly killed myself the first time I tried to run down the stairs to catch a tube in platforms, wouldn’t wiped out completely if my friend hadn’t caught me.

  52. Argenti Aertheri

    Dracula — more fun is always more better, so no problem :D [insert mad scientist laugh here]

    Cassandra — they’re EBIL, glad you had friends to catch you though, wiping out on stairs hurts (and the most I’ve fallen down was like the bottom 6 or so)

  53. CassandraSays

    I love my platforms, though. I am a vertically challenged person, and they allow me to actually see what’s going on in crowds.

  54. Forget urinals, I want a bidet.

  55. Argenti Aertheri

    Cassandra — enjoy them then? My best wishes to your ankles though.

    Estraven — not only are bidets more useful, but combo toilet/bidets exist, it doesn’t even have to take up any more space than a toilet

    …when’d it get to be light out? Shit, I should go to bed >.<

  56. ShadetheDruid

    *Spots school sports-related rants in the wild*

    Woo! I hated sports in school (at least middle school) just because they’re so.. authoritarian about it. Luckily they didn’t grade you on it, just as long as you actually turned up so you didn’t get in trouble.

    Firstly, it would be nice if they didn’t force kids to do sports they aren’t built for. They made every boy do rugby in school, and considering I weigh barely 110lbs now, you can see the issue there.

    They also made us do things like football (soccer) in the middle of winter, and didn’t let us wear anything to keep us warm. Even if it was raining, windy and cold as fuck, we still had to wear just shorts and a shirt. Same with swimming, outdoor pool regardless of weather, but at least I could just float about and not do much in the “crappy swimmers” group (I suck at swimming, and i’m aquaphobic). Also, we had to wear swimming caps, and I hated that.. it felt like a headcrab was eating my head. :( And the time I just didn’t want to do swimming because it was freezing cold outside, and the teacher actually threatened to throw me in the pool.

    Those are nice way to make someone hate certain sports though, if that’s what you’re going for. Unfortunatly in middle school, there wasn’t really a way for me to get out of doing stuff (we had the opportunity to do that in upper school though, but I didn’t really use that for avoiding sports, that was reserved for “General Studies” which I think I went to maybe three classes out of a whole school year – we used to just walk to the nearest town and have lunch instead).

    There was only four sports I liked doing in school, and only like three that I was actually good at. Gymnastics was pretty fun, just because you could jump off high things onto soft things all the time, and they let us make up randomly awesome gymnastics courses to use by piecing together all the parts as we wanted. I was a pretty good sprinter too (cross-country on the other hand, ouch), but that didn’t do good things to my legs in the end. I was decent at badminton (and it was pretty fun)! Last one that I was actually any good at (actually, I kicked arse at it for some reason) and enjoyed a bunch was hockey (of the field variety).

    As for genderings, our sports weren’t as gender-segregated; they only really separated us for specifically gender-coded sports, ie. rugby, football (soccer) etc. Thinking about it, that was mostly for the male-coded ones (I guess you could say the really physical ones), because the boys still did things like gymnastics. Girls did things like netball instead of football and rugby.

    Long post is long. :P

  57. Imperial Bedrooms

    Activities that were theoretically supposed to be about promoting physical fitness frequently turned into the guys screaming, “HOW COULD YOU MISS THAT, YOU FUCKING MORON?!” at the girls, shoving them out of the way, and generally exhibiting all the douchiest traits of the recently-pubescent. Understandably, if sadly, most of the girls responded to this by deciding we didn’t need that shit and would just do our best to participate as little as possible.

    Hahaha, but they do this to the less-athletically-inclined boys too. I fucking hated flag football (tackling optional but encouraged), volleyball, badminton, tennis, definitely anything that required any level of hand-eye coordination. My goal was not to win but just to lose gracefully. Going through a class without completely whiffing with the badminton racket was a good day. Otherwise, I got teased, etc.

    They should have separated us into Assholes and Non-Assholes.

  58. Seeing urinals as oh so special just because females don’t use them is extremely silly. And the males who want to pee in ones shaped like women’s lips are in need of therapy.

  59. My HS gym classes self-segregated by gender. Mostly; I hung with the girls. If anyone gave me shit for it they never bothered telling me about it. Then again, that wasn’t a school with a lot of jocks.

    None of which means I actually liked PE, but it wasn’t the Bullying Hour I know the “subject” tends to be.

  60. Headine: JEANM is revealed as troll:

    Ithiliana-well DKM does make a point about provocation that seems to make sense. Every normal person can be provoked and pushed too far at times where they may respond in an unpleasant manner.

    He blamed my graduate student who was murdered by her ex-husband and who did NOT pay child support for murdering her in front of their two small children.

    He BLAMED my graduate student who was MURDERED by her ex-husband who did NOT pay child support for murdering her. In front of their two small children.

    DKM thinks every man is normal until pushed too far by harpy women until they are provoked to beat and kill them.

  61. Ithiliana-well DKM does make a point about provocation that seems to make sense. Every normal person can be provoked and pushed too far at times where they may respond in an unpleasant manner.

    The fuck?

    what point? He says that women who are abused actively seek their abuse; they, “know all the buttons to push”.

    He blamed a murdered woman for getting murdered.

    That’s not sensible. That’s evil. To argue that the victim of a murder is the person who should be held accountable is reprehensible.

    And you think this is some sort of debatably valid as a point of view.

    The fuck?

  62. Sociological images had a post a long time ago about standing up to pee. Turns out women stand up to pee in other cultures.

    They also had a post about the variety of urinals meant to imply women are toilets.

  63. Argenti Aertheri

    skeptifem — I don’t recall the first soc. images post you mention, but I think the latter was linked to on the previous page of comments. Idk if you meant this post or not though.

  64. I wouldn’t have a problem with PE as a class if it was actually a class, where they taught stuff, instead of just throwing you out onto the field and saying “go”.

    I remember once in elementary school, we had to complete an “obstacle course,” and part of that involved sliding down a pole, and I had no idea how to do that, and basically just fell. And of course any competitive game, you were just told the rules (if you were lucky), and not things like “here is how you hold and swing a bat”.

    And yes, JeanM = definitely troll. Combination of heinous statement and complete indifference to being the topic of discussion. Anyone actually interested in engaging with the community would have said something about not really being a troll.

  65. Argenti Aertheri

    Re: JeanM — yeah I was willing to give the benefit of the doubt that I was just being cranky, but then that defense of DKM? About the worst way possible to say “I am not a troll”.

    And not only did my PE classes not teach anything, I don’t recall those girls who didn’t want to get their hair wet being asked if they could swim…fail >.<

  66. Yep, the “provocation” my student did was to complete her doctorate degree and get a job IN ANOTHER TOWN where he would have a harder time stalking and harassing her.

    That’s provocation for murder, right, Jean??????????????????

  67. Okay, chiming in on the P.E. ranting…

    We had co-ed PE throughout my school years. I do think it would have been helpful to break it up by gender, mostly because in any semester where we were playing team sports (soccor, flag football, basketball, vollyball, etc.) most of the girls would be actively excluded. It didn’t matter if you were actually good at the sport–and for a big girl, I was decent at vollyball; it was my favorite and I played a lot with friends and family–you just could not get the ball passed to you, and if the ball did happen to come into your area, there was always a boy to jump in front of you and take it. So after a couple of weeks of trying to participate, most of us just ended up standing around for 45 minutes, bored as hell, waiting for it to be over, while the game played around us. Of course, that meant we would get a terrible PE grade because we weren’t “participating”–never mind that the gym teachers did jack shit about the way we were excluded. The one time I tried to point this out, the teacher just said, “Stephanie and Monica are doing fine. Stop making excuses for being lazy.” (of course all fat kids are lazy!) and didn’t listen when I tried to explain that, yeah, a couple of girls were agressively going after the ball and fighting back, but a) they were in much better physical condition that we were, and it took them a long time for the boys to even grudgingly accept them–regardless of the fact that they were often *on* the school team for whatever sport we were playing, and b) they straight up didn’t care about being called bitches and dykes, while some of us were still having trouble managing to make it through the school day without being physcially assaulted or bursting into tears. Yeah, gym teachers are not the most empathetic people, in my experience.

    When I could, I would chose the non-sport classes, like aerobics, pilates, or even *walking* (hated walking, it was just 45 minutes of laps around the track, but at least they left you alone and your grade was soley based on how well you did). Of course, I heard two gymn teachers trying to use the high percentage of girls in the walking/aerobics classes to “prove” that girls didn’t really want to play sports, and thus Title IX was bullshit, without ever considering *why* girls didn’t want to being in the team classes (like, OH I DON’T KNOW, the fact that you are TERRIBLE AT YOUR JOB?!).

    I think PE is important, but not the way its currently done. Aside from gender issues, there were no accomodations made for kids who were not physically fit or who had medical problems. In fact, if it was structured for anyone, it seemed to be for those at the top of the class already. At the time I felt like shit for not being able to fully participate (thanks, PE teachers, for making me hate myself more than I already did), until I got older, actually learned about exercise, and realized that what they were making me do was UNSAFE. No, some of us aren’t lazy, useless princesses, some of us literally cannot physically do things that other kids can. And because there was no accomodation (and I couldn’t handle the emotional abuse) I ended up getting a medical pass and spending almost all of PE in study hall with the pregnant girls–which, stupid, we could have really used PE, too, but they would rather just keep us out than work on the problem (who is lazy in this scenario?). From talking with a couple friends getting their degree in the field, there just isn’t enough education given on how to accomodate and help (and not psychologically abuse) overweight kids (or other kids with disabilities). There really should be, especially with the rising number of overweight kids. The solution is not to just have them sit out PE or humiliate and marginalize them while they’re with the class.

    Eh, sorry for the ramble, this is something that’s really important to me, and I think there should be more attention paid to the issue.

  68. @student-0/10, I’m more offended by the lack of effort.

    Or perhaps you just don’t have a sense of humour.

  69. Argenti and Cliff-you both may want to take a long nap and then get out into the fresh air for awhile. You seem to always be on the defensive and bitter and pounce on anything that doesn’t fit into your narrow view of things.
    I write unpleasantness and you both turn that into murder and imply that I was condoning murder.Unpleasantness means just that and if the word doesn’t happen to be in your Newspeak dictionary then a suggest that you get a real one.
    And you may want to go poke a wasp’s nest or carry your cat around by its tail to get an idea what unpleasantness is. The cat is not trying to murder you but just protecting itself.

  70. JeanM: Aren’t you the nasty little troll!

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