Update: Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger Eivind Berge will be held for four more weeks due to the “risk of recurrence of new criminal offenses.”

Just a quick update on Eivind Berge: According to this news account, the Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger is considered enough of a threat to police officers that his two-week detention has been extended by four more weeks. According to the prosecutor, the “risk of recurrence of new criminal offenses” makes releasing him dangerous.

See my posts here and here for more on his arrest.

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Posted on July 19, 2012, in antifeminism, MRA, terrorism, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 262 Comments.

  1. @howardbann1ster
    “There’s a series on Shakesville – Today in Totally Not Terrorism. Every time there’s a bombing or shooting at an abortion clinic. The MLK day bomb.”

    If they did a series everytime someone dies from being aborted they’d have a new post about every 25 seconds, 24/7, 365 days a year. More meat for the meatgrinder. It’s funny how only the people who enjoy the luxury of not being aborted and are afforded the right to life are pro abortion. How’d that happen?

  2. Pecunium, would you mind if I sat here and just was in awe of you? Is there nothing you can’t do?

    They only post one for a new incident of totally-not-terrorism.

    It’s a pretty regular feature.

    Okay, now I want a beer. Preferably one brewed by Pecunium.

  3. I think the FBI did a report on right wing domestic terrorism a couple of years ago though, I remember because it angered a lot of republicans. The media are the ones not on board with calling it terrorism.

  4. A gøøse bit my sister ønce.

    Incidentally, if you google “a moose bit my sister once,” you get a youtube link to the credits for Holy Grail, and a whole bunch of images of Sarah Palin with the line macro’d on.

    For some reason that sets my teeth on edge. I didn’t like Palin, I’ve got no respect for her intelligence, ability to govern, or capacity to serve out a term when there’s book deals to be had, but attacking her or tweaking her nose because she’s from Alaska is beyond the pale.

  5. Well, WordPress just told me to slow down. Guess I better go have lunch.

  6. For some reason that sets my teeth on edge. I didn’t like Palin, I’ve got no respect for her intelligence, ability to govern, or capacity to serve out a term when there’s book deals to be had, but attacking her or tweaking her nose because she’s from Alaska is beyond the pale.

    The people responsible have just been sacked.

  7. Is it making fun of the fact that she’s from Alaska, or is it making fun of the fact that she plays up the “i’m from Alaska” bit in an over-the-top way? I mean, she’s said things equally as stupid herself.

    I can believe the former does happen though, so I dunno.

  8. Now apparently some random Republican is blaming atheism and the “war on Christianity” for the shooting. I’ll continue to not be surprised that this happens all the time. D:

  9. or is it making fun of the fact that she plays up the “i’m from Alaska” bit in an over-the-top way?

    Oh, I forgot she did that.

    I’d like to say that I’ve come to expect politicians to play up where they’re from, how much they are Of The People, that I just ignored her when she did it. I mean, Bush bought a dude ranch, Palin can see Russia from her house, this is just par for the course.

    But it’s probably more like it’s not being rubbed in my face at the moment.

    Regardless, it doesn’t make me feel like giving her the benefit of any doubt.

  10. Falconer: I don’t do beer. I will be, because my partner can’t drink wine (no, not for that reason, she’s allergic to fructose).

    But to do that we need to get a couple more carboys, so that the meadery isn’t ruined for Pesah.

    And yes, there is lots I can’t do, math more complex than simple algebra (with some small exceptions for applied aspects of trig which related to my job when I was a machinist; I knew more of how it worked [what numbers to plug into the formulae] than why. I knew what I was measuring, and what it was telling me about the measured features, but not why it was able to give me the answers).

    I can’t do celestial navigation, and I’ve never learned to use a sextant, or theodolite. I can’t crochet (all you get is a hopeless knot), and I’m not as good at making sauces as I’d like. I’m not more than a passable singer (I tend to lose my key, and I sing a little flat… when I come to the coda my timbre falls apart and I can’t seem to hit the closing notes; it’s a real frustration because I like singing. Music is my life, it’s not my livelihood).

    I barely understand electricity (I can make a simple circuit, and I know how to make a transformer, that’s about it). I don’t speak any sort of computer language (though I have the basics of simple HTML tools, href, and img src and & xxx ;, etc.

    I seem more competent than I am (and I am pretty competent) because I study things I am interested in, and I am a pretty good teacher. I also know my limits, and reach to reference works (a lot). I happen to 1: love books, and 2: have a bookstore in the family (though it’s not thousands of miles from me, and not so much a brick and mortar place, so the stock is harder to raid). Almost 30 years of that (and a decade where I shared first pick of the oddities) means my personal library is both large (about 1,500 volumes, at present; with about 1,000 lost in various moves over those same three decades), and ecclectic; as well as being topical to my interests.

    Take cookery, I have about 30 linear feet of books about cooking. Some are straight up recipe books, but most are either technique books, or books about types of cooking (schlemmertopf or Greek, or French Jewish, or “scandanavian”).

    I also dabble. I like to play with things. So I try it, and I buy some books, and I read up on it, and I play with it until I decide I’m not interested, or I have acquired a new hobby. It’s why I know so much as I do, about as much as I do.

    The final thing (I think) is that spent 20 years as a teacher. I got pretty good at explaining some pretty esoteric things (such as why when one is doing an Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield, one always has a detailed “paragraph” on the weather). The result of that is I’m not afraid to try to explain things.

    If you want, when I get a brewery going, I’ll send you a bottle.

  11. Now apparently some random Republican is blaming atheism and the “war on Christianity” for the shooting. I’ll continue to not be surprised that this happens all the time. D:

    Surely this tragedy could have been averted by mandatory school prayer, and a monument promoting a movie on the lawn of every courthouse in the nation.

  12. Four words in before insulting me, Argenti Aertheri must really like me. Talk about a hostile audience.

    Actually, coming from me, “weird” is usually high praise. Usually. In this case, it was chosen primarily to retain the alliteration and cadence of the original phrase, and secondarily because you are pretty strange. That’s a good thing in itself–can you imagine how scary the world would be if your brand of frothing rage were normal?

  13. If you want, when I get a brewery going, I’ll send you a bottle.

    That’d be mighty kind of you.

    And you can’t do fewer things than I can’t do. Although I’m passable at crochet.

  14. @Re: Sarah Palin.

    I’ll call out anybody who uses sexist/misogynistic slurs against her (including on her physical attractiveness), but the reported information on the woman and hunting would lead me to cheer the MOOSE: http://www.grizzlybay.org/SarahPalinInfoPage.htm

    Trufact: the first time my brother (now retired from an architecture firm in Anchorage) voted for a Democrat was to vote for Sarah Palin’s opponent for governor.

    The second time was to vote for Obama after McCain picked Palin.

    Just like Molly Ivins was calling out Shrub for years, so were there Alaskans against Palin for years before she hit the national scene.

  15. @Ithiliana: The winking was creepy.

    But I didn’t like how quickly so many on the left were quick to assume shenanigans over the birth of Trig and Bristol’s pregnancy. Fortunately that didn’t last long in the circles I was running in at the time. Nor did it make me, as the saying goes, suddenly outraged over Chappaquiddick.

  16. If they did a series everytime someone dies from being aborted they’d have a new post about every 25 seconds, 24/7, 365 days a year.

    This is incorrect. Very few women die as a result of abortion procedures nowadays.

    Oh, you meant the embryos? Well, you have to be a legal person to be a “someone,” and human embryos aren’t. You can argue till the cows come home about whether they should have legal personhood (Answer: No. Wasn’t that simple? You should thank me for all the time I just saved you. Now you can spend that time doing your job instead, and when the cows do come home, the milking machine will be all fixed for them!), but the plain fact is that at present they do not, and therefore no “someone” dies during the course of a typical abortion procedure.

  17. ShadetheDruid

    It’s funny how only the people who enjoy the luxury of not being aborted and are afforded the right to life are pro abortion. How’d that happen?

    >.< Hahaha… Can we add "funny how only people who weren't aborted have an opinion on abortion" to the Book Of Learnin'?

  18. Argenti Aertheri

    “It’s funny how only the people who enjoy the luxury of not being aborted and are afforded the right to life are pro abortion. How’d that happen?”

    Ok NWO, I was going to try being polite today, mostly because I’m not in the mood to have you word counting how long it took for me to insult you, but this is even stupider than your usual drivel.

    “It’s funny how only the people who enjoy the luxury of not being aborted having failed to implant (or been stillborn, or died in childhood) and are afforded the right to life are pro abortion able to procreate. How’d that happen?”

    I mean, biology, you do have a basic understanding of it right?

    Everyone not NWO — he’s got a longer rant on the previous page that’s going to take me a minute to parse wtf he’s on about now.

  19. ShadetheDruid

    Oh my brain, I didn’t even see that post… I don’t even know where to start with that one.

  20. @Falconer: Oh, yes, the sexism on the left was maddening–although it was…..deeply tragically comic that suddenly FOX NEWS et. al were yelling about………..OMG sexism against Palin! After all the crap they threw at Hilary Clinton…….

  21. It’s funny how only the people who enjoy the luxury of not being aborted and are afforded the right to life are pro abortion. How’d that happen?

    Pardon me for asking, but what’s “pro abortion”? Do you mean pro-choice? That’s a mistake a lot of people make.

    Anyway, assuming that’s what you mean, I would like to point out that everyone who is anti-abortion has also already been born and guaranteed the right to life. Fetuses don’t have opinions of any kind on any subject. You don’t gain the ability to form opinions until some time after birth. Probably about the time you develop self-awareness (between 1 and 2 years of age), because you can’t have a concept of “I think that…” until you have a concept of “I.”

    Do you understand? I can simplify if you need me to. I’m here to help.

  22. @NWO: Cookies! Sweetiepie! Shitforbrains!

    Mass murders are not automatically terrorist acts!

    And if one looks at the organized violence designed to shut down women’s clinics and “stop abortion by murdering people” which is done by white Christians, then yeah, the MAJORITY of TERRORIST acts in the US are by white people, mostly but not entirely men:

    terrorist attacks against women’s clinics:

    http://www.google.com/webhp?rlz=1C1ARAB_enUS452US452&sourceid=chrome-instant&ie=UTF-8#rlz=1C1ARAB_enUS452US452&sourceid=chrome-psyapi2&ie=UTF-8&q=terrorist%20attacks%20against%20women%27s%20clinics&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=267a76ddbb059e12&biw=1024&bih=475

    Not that this will even dent NWO’s completely ironclad stance of doing it wrong, but the racism in defining terrorism in the US really pisses me the hell off.

  23. Argenti Aertheri

    @pecunium
    “Shade: Yeah. The majority of terrorists in the US are white, male, Conservative, Christian (of a “fundamentalist” stripe).”

    First, why is this addressed to pecunium, when Shade said that quoted line? It isn’t really important or anything, but I’m curious.

    Really? Do you have proof of this? A detailed list of all mass murderers for say the last 40 years or so and their stated reason for mass murdering would suffice. I’d like to see how over 50% of mass murders in the US are committed Christian fundies.

    I’ll get back to you with that list, might be hard to find a list by religion, but skin color and gender should be easy enough (at least, their presumed race and gender, since idfk how stats will categorize cases where the murderer was killed at the scene).

    Whatever happened to correlation doesn’t equal causation? Suddenly now it does?

    Um, it doesn’t? Who said anything about why most US terrorists are conservative white men? No one?

    My guess is he came from a single mother home, which is decidedly anti-christian at the very core. We know for a fact the majority of every criminal activity derives from single mother homes. Isn’t like 80% of prisons filled with products of single motherhood? Nice. Women make poor authority figures because they inherently lack the leadership skills. All that tolerance seems to breed whatcha see today.

    Wait, didn’t you just agree that correlation isn’t causation? But now being from a single mother home is the cause of criminal activity? Try keeping your view straight for more than two paragraphs in a row please. (And I’ll be checking that 80% claim when I go find that list)

    Every moral preached from our schools, MSM as well as the political/corporate machine is totally opposite of Christianity. Is the US a Christian nation? At best, in name only. Gay pride, fifty shades of grey mentality, slutwalks, every form of debauchery is promoted and Christians are hated for daring to raise a voice against the mighty tolerance. We’re a nation of hedonistic atheists.

    Nope, we aren’t a Christian nation, please review your first amendment — the one that means you can say whatever hateful shit you like about whatever religion you like, and at worst, people will call you an asshole for it. No inquisition, no dungeon for disagreeing, no state enforced religion — no, we’re not a Christian nation, and we never have been.

    On the plus side, this’ll be an excellent opportunity for Big Daddy to tighten his grip and expand security forces. Police forces in every theater, mall, grocery store, business, school. If I wanted to build a police state I wouldn’t pass up this golden opportunity. Don’t worry fellow americans, I won’t steal too much more of your wealth.

    …You do get that most places have private security already right? Schools have had metal detectors since Columbine, mall security is really not big on shenanigans, grocery stores almost always have security in case of theft, etc — this isn’t news to you is it? Theaters and businesses also have private security, depending on their location and the nature of the business — every damned bank has security.

    Was that intended as a general argument against Americas security theater, or are you actually trying to say you think you should be able to carry a gun wherever the fuck you like? (Oh right, you think driver licenses are evil, so it must be the latter…too bad, I’d have agreed with the former)

    At present, so far this year about 350 people died from walking on flat level ground and 10 from mass murderers in the US. Since I’m 35 X as likey to doe from walking on flat level ground. When will Big Daddy save me from this walking death?

    Ok now I know you do the faux naive thing, but come on, you cannot be thick enough not to know the difference between accidents and murder. And citation needed on that claim — I’d believe that many more people die while on flat ground but from flat ground? You need to exclude homeless people freezing to death, heat stroke, heart attacks and other medical conditions, and everything besides tripping basically. And since I’m already checking two citations for you, you can provide your own citation for this one.

    While you’re citing things, cite any increases in security that aren’t limited to other showings of the same film, and (this is important) aren’t saying that that’s being done to make people feel more secure. Flat ground, or even mass murder deaths, have nothing to do with whether the movie now risks tanking because the public is afraid to go see it because of this.

  24. Really? Do you have proof of this? A detailed list of all mass murderers for say the last 40 years or so and their stated reason for mass murdering would suffice.

    Translation: If you can’t provide impossibly thorough proof for an assertion, the opposite must be true.

    Whatever happened to correlation doesn’t equal causation? Suddenly now it does?

    Translation: Just in case the killer does happen to share my ideology, I better cover my ass.

    My guess is he came from a single mother home, which is decidedly anti-christian at the very core. We know for a fact the majority of every criminal activity derives from single mother homes. Isn’t like 80% of prisons filled with products of single motherhood? Nice. Women make poor authority figures because they inherently lack the leadership skills. All that tolerance seems to breed whatcha see today.

    Tranlsation: Here is a random hallucination I had about the killer. Here are some statistics I hallucinated, too! The fact that women continue to parent after their partners leave them is anti-Christian and very evil.

    Every moral preached from our schools, MSM as well as the political/corporate machine is totally opposite of Christianity. Is the US a Christian nation? At best, in name only. Gay pride, fifty shades of grey mentality, slutwalks, every form of debauchery is promoted and Christians are hated for daring to raise a voice against the mighty tolerance. We’re a nation of hedonistic atheists.

    Translation: Here is a grab-bag of things I am hateful about. I’ve recently added “Fifty Shades of Grey” to the list! I am not quite sure what a “Fifty Shades of Grey” is, but as soon as I figure out, I’ll know how to hate women for it!

    On the plus side, this’ll be an excellent opportunity for Big Daddy to tighten his grip and expand security forces. Police forces in every theater, mall, grocery store, business, school. If I wanted to build a police state I wouldn’t pass up this golden opportunity. Don’t worry fellow americans, I won’t steal too much more of your wealth.

    Translation: I am very afraid the government will come for me at any moment. That’s why I publicly attack the government constantly with absolutely no expression of concern for my physical safety. I mean, yeah, jackbooted thugs are brutally crushing all dissent, but it’s not like they’d track an IP address, right?

    At present, so far this year about 350 people died from walking on flat level ground and 10 from mass murderers in the US. Since I’m 35 X as likey to doe from walking on flat level ground. When will Big Daddy save me from this walking death?

    Translation: People die from things other than mass murders. Therefore, mass murder is no big deal.

    (I have no idea what “350 people died from walking on flat level ground” refers to. Possibly NWO thinks that 350/year is the US rate of natural death?)

  25. Argenti Aertheri

    “I’m here to help.” … o.o …

    “I’m the Doctor, I’m here to help” — Karalora, tardis access, please? :)

    Since that got a laugh out of me, here, have +1 internet, and some M&Ms.

  26. ShadetheDruid

    Argenti: That was pecunium replying to me, hence my name being there.

  27. Argenti Aertheri

    Shade — I know, I’m curious why NWO is directing that at pecunium, and not at you. Though I guess I shouldn’t encourage him to expand his list of people he hates…

  28. CassandraSays

    Slavey is awfully excitable lately, isn’t he? I keep picturing spittle flying at his screen as he types.

  29. @Argenti

    Actually, I’ve never watched a single episode of DW. I must be the only geek left in geekdom who hasn’t. “I’m here to help” is just something I say sometimes, often sarcastically. Do I still get my M&Ms?

  30. Argenti Aertheri

    Karalora — yep, the M&Ms (and internet) were for making me laugh after replying to NWO, you were still amusing, whether you meant to be or not :)

  31. I really would love for Slavey to define what he thinks “Fifty Shades of Grey mentality” even is.

  32. Woot! M&Ms! Can they be the dark chocolate kind? Those are the best.

  33. CassandraSays

    (Tries to think like Slavey)

    So, um, a woman wrote about sex, and it wasn’t just a list of what she was wearing (ie her sexuality). This is bad! Also, now other women are reading about sex, and they might be expecting orgasms. Bad! Or even having orgasms after reading. Really, really bad!

    (Please note that because we are Slavey we don’t care how badly the book is written, or that it’s a full-frontal assault on the English language. We just hate it because it’s a dirty book and women might get off on it and OMG the sky is falling, bikinis at the mall, etc.)

  34. @cliff

    I would imagine that the “walking on level ground” deaths are actually from falling on level ground. For the elderly and some disabled populations it can be very dangerous to endure a ground level fall.

    There are plenty of other things where people die while walking on level ground, but a fall is the only thing I can come up with that would actually have anything to do with the ground or its level.

  35. I thought “Fifty Shades of Grey” mentality was the notion that, since Twilight is no better than amateur Anne Rice fanfiction anyway, we might as well publish Twilight fanfiction with all the names changed.

    These are indeed dark days we live in.

  36. CassandraSays

    Maybe the Fifty Shades of Grey mentality is “too lazy to read through the slush pile, this will do – people bought Twilight so they’ll buy this shit too, right?’.

  37. I would imagine that the “walking on level ground” deaths are actually from falling on level ground. For the elderly and some disabled populations it can be very dangerous to endure a ground level fall.

    That’s what I figured, but I wondered where the hell he got 350 from. Something like 20,000 people a year die from accidental falls, most of which are falls from standing or from a bed or wheelchair.

    Maybe he just guessed 350 was a really big number.

    At any rate this is all moot because of how hilariously wrong and amoral the logic of “people die for other reasons, so who cares about a mass murder here or there?” is.

  38. ShadetheDruid

    Argenti: I think we’re managing to confuse each other here. :P The conversation went:

    Blah blah blah, stuff about people not considering non-Islamic terrorism terrorism or whatever I posted about (no mention of the actual most common sources of domestic terrorism in the US) – Me

    Shade: Yeah. The majority of terrorists in the US are white, male, Conservative, Christian (of a “fundamentalist” stripe). – Pecunium

    And then Owly quoted the latter, probably because it hit his “waa people are whining white male Christians again!” button rather than mine that didn’t. Pecunium was directing that paragraph at me, rather than quoting me.

    I hope i’m not just misunderstanding your confusion, because then i’d be a giant idiot. :P

  39. I’ve never read either Twilight or Shades of Grey and I’ve heard enough about them to decide I don’t want to read them, which is kind of funny, because I like erotica and I like paranormal romance, and so I’d be the target demographic.

    My theory is that Twilight and Shades of Grey are so popular is because they are the first entry into the genres for people who have never explored them before–since people who read and review erotica/romance aren’t really impressed. It’s like “No, no–here, let me give you some good stuff. Really. You can get your vampire/bdsm fix without having to put up with awful writing.”

  40. Twilight seems to have come along at the right time to snap up the readers who had grown up with Harry Potter, developed a taste for fantasy, and were now discovering their hormones and looking for something else to read. 50 Shades of Grey is literally Twilight fanfic with the names changed. I wasn’t even kidding about that. So naturally the Twilight crowd is going gaga over it.

  41. Argenti Aertheri

    Done with that list, data is from wiki.

    “This section does not include school massacres, workplace killings, hate crimes, or mass murders that took place primarily in a domestic environment, which form their own categories. Cases where the primary motive for the murders was to facilitate or cover up another felony, like robbery, are also not included.”

    Note, unknown in the race/gender column may simply mean I can’t be arsed to go digging for the info, also, all assumptions are based on the name, and should be taken with salt.

    Sheley, Nicholas Troy, 28; June 23-33, 2008 Sterling, Rock Falls & Galesburg, IL; Festus, MO — white male
    Unruh, Howard Barton, 28; Sep. 6, 1949 Camden, NJ — white male
    Wong, Jiverly Antares, 41; April 3, 2009 Binghamton, NY — Asian male
    Hennard, George Pierre, 35; Oct. 16, 1991 Killeen, TX — unknown male
    Huberty, James Oliver, 41; July 18, 1984 San Diego, CA — white male
    Pough, James Edward, 42; June 17/18, 1990 Jacksonville, FL — African American male
    McLendon, Michael Kenneth, 28; March 10, 2009 Kinston, Samson & Geneva, AL — white male
    Starkweather, Charles, 19 & Fugate, Caril Ann, 14; Nov. 30, 1957 & Jan. 21-29, 1958 Lincoln & Bennet, NE & Douglas, WY — white male, unknown female
    Phillips, Monroe, 58; March 6, 1915 Brunswick, G — unknown
    Smith, Roland J., 51; Dec. 8, 1995 New York City, NY — unknown male
    Ratzmann, Terry Michael, 44; March 12, 2005 Brookfield, WI — white male
    Collins, Melvin, 38; Nov. 6, 1948 Chester, PA — unknown (assumed male)
    Collins, Darnell, 33; June 17–21, 1995 New Jersey & New York City, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Gung Ung Chang; July 18/19, 1898 Melrose, CA — unknown (assumed Asian)
    Reynolds, William, 35; April 6, 1902 Tuscumbia, AL — unknown (assumed male)
    Akers, Arthur; April 9, 1916 Stuttgart, AR — unknown (assumed male)
    Ashbrook, Larry Gene, 47; Sep. 15, 1999 Fort Worth, TX — white male
    Everette, Eugene, 32; March 28/29, 1970 New York City, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Jim; March 1, 1889 Okeechobee, FL — unknown (assumed male)
    Charles, Robert, 35; July 23–27, 1900 New Orleans, LA — African American male
    Ferguson, Colin, 35; Dec. 7, 1993 Garden City, NY — African American male
    Marcelino, Julian, 30; Nov. 24, 1932 Seattle, WA — unknown (assumed male)
    Loughner, Jared Lee, 22; Jan. 8, 2011 Tucson, AZ — white male
    Carlton, Julian, 30; Aug. 15, 1914 Spring Green, WI — unknown male
    Pearson, Eric Emanuel, 56; March 16, 1968 Ironwood, MI — unknown (assumed male)
    Bonner, William Ray, 25; April 22, 1973 Los Angeles, CA — African American male
    Indian Gully; Aug. 1910 Willow Patch, NV — unknown (assumed Native American)
    Cruse, William Bryan, 59; April 23, 1987 Palm Bay, FL — unknown (assumed male)
    Cooper, Simon; Jan. 1/7, 1897 Magnolia & Lynchburg, SC — unknown (assumed male)
    Zamora, Isaac Lee, 28; Sep. 2, 2008 Alger, WA — unknown (assumed male)
    Young, Harry Lyman, 27 & Young, Jennings M., 35; Jan. 2, 1932 Brookline, MO — unknown males
    Unknown; Sep. 7, 1982 Craig, AK — unknown
    Dekraai, Scott Evans, 41; Oct. 12, 2011 Seal Beach, CA — white male
    Brown, Carl Robert, 51; Aug. 20, 1982 Miami, FL — white male
    Hawkins, Robert A., 19; Dec. 5, 2007 Omaha, NE — white male
    Stewart, Robert Kenneth Wayne, 45; March 29, 2009 Carthage, NC — white male
    Silka, Michael Alan, 25; April 28 / May 17–19, 1984 Fairbanks & Manley Hot Springs, AK — unknown (assumed male)
    Bertucci, Clarence V., 23; July 8, 1945 Salina, UT — white male
    Twigg, Gilbert, 30; Aug. 13, 1903 Winfield, KS — unknown (assumed male)
    Ferri, Gian Luigi, 55; July 1, 1993 San Francisco, CA — white male
    Jones, Walter, 20 & Jones, William, 18; Sep. 28, 1913 Harriston, MS — unknown (assumed male)
    Holmes, James Eagan, 24 (alleged); July 20, 2012 Aurora, CO — white male
    Unknown; Sep. 17, 1911 Colorado Springs, CO — unknown
    Goins, John M., 49; March 18, 1926 Stockton & Galt, CA — unknown (assumed male)
    Henry, DeWitt Charles, 26; July 23, 1977 Klamath Falls, OR — unknown (assumed male)
    Drake, Lynwood Crumpler, 43; Nov. 7/8, 1992 Morro Bay, Paso Robles & San Miguel, CA — white male
    Huff, Kyle Aaron, 28; March 25, 2006 Seattle, WA — white male
    Vang, Chai Soua, 36; Nov. 21, 2004 Birchwood, WI — Asian male
    Moreno, Eliseo Hernandez, 24; Oct. 11, 1983 College Station & Hempstead, TX — unknown (assumed Hispanic male)
    Benoist, Emile Pierre, 20; Aug. 26, 1977 Hackettstown, NJ — unknown (I think Emile is the French male form of Emilie, but I’m not sure on that)
    Harris, Will; Nov. 13, 1906 Asheville, NC — unknown (assumed male)
    King, Alvin Lee, 45; June 22, 1980 Daingerfield, TX — unknown (assumed male)
    Klink, Herman, 40; March 6, 1933 Cleveland, OH — unknown (assumed male)
    Stewart, Howard Franklin, 37; Sep. 16 & Sep. 22, 1987 Lebanon, MO & Corsicana, TX — unknown (assumed male)
    Moore, Lawrence W., 25; May 7, 1981 Salem, OR — unknown (assumed male)
    Decker, Newt, 35; Nov. 15, 1908 Okmulgee, OK — unknown (assumed male)
    Mellberg, Dean Allen, 20; June 20, 1994 Fairchild Air Force Base, WA — unknown (assumed male)
    Pullen, Joe; Dec. 14, 1923 Drew, MS — unknown (assumed male)
    McLeod, Harvey Glenn, 22; May 29, 1972 Raleigh, NC — unknown male
    French, Kenneth Junior, 22; Aug. 6, 1993 Fayetteville, NC — unknown (assumed male)
    Belachheb, Abdelkrim, 39; June 29, 1984 Dallas, TX — unknown
    Peterson, Tyler James, 20; Oct. 7, 2007 Crandon, WI — white male
    Hastings, Louis D., 39; March 3, 1983 McCarthy, AK — unknown (assumed male)
    Sencion, Eduardo, 32; Sep. 6, 2011 Carson City, NV — Hispanic male
    Clark, Michael Andrew, 16; April 25, 1965 Santa Maria, CA — unknown male
    Aranda, Bennie Bonifacio, 26; Dec. 28, 1937 Oakland, CA — unknown (assumed male)
    Mozingo, Douglas Arthur, 29; Oct. 1, 1982 Sacramento, CA — unknown (assumed male)
    Sodini, George A., 48; Aug. 4, 2009 Bridgeville, PA — white male
    Attebury, Ira, 64; April 27, 1979 San Antonio, TX — unknown (assumed male)
    Popadich, Ronald J., 39; Feb 10-14, 2002 Garfield, NJ & New York City, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Casteel, Luther V., 42; April 14, 2001 Elgin, IL — unknown (assumed male)
    Cho Mun Chu, 45; Sep. 6, 1988 New York City, NY — unknown (assumed Asian)
    Sears, Charles, 32; June 27 – July 6, 1981 New York City, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Smith, Russell Lee, 28; May 24, 1975 Dayton, OH — African American male
    Pearson, Moses, 31; April 25, 1976 Jacksonville, FL & Georgia — unknown (assumed male)
    Lambright, Donald Martin, 30; April 5, 1969 Harrisburg, PA — unknown (assumed male)
    Harrington, Robert Leonard, 35; June 11, 1982 Detroit, MI — unknown (assumed male)
    Koullapis, Louis, 70; Jan. 12, 1965 Gardena, CA — unknown (assumed male)
    Pruyn, Kenyon William, 32; Oct. 30, 1976 Mechanicville, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Cribbs, Ulysses L., 32; Nov. 26, 1977 Omaha, NE — unknown (assumed male)
    Agas, Venerando, 52; July 10, 1995 New York City, NY — unknown (assumed male)
    Pinkston, Charles; Oct. 10, 1927 Birmingham, AL — unknown (assumed male)
    Cornell, —; 1863 Austin, NV — unknown
    Thrower, Dennie, 34; Oct. 4, 1936 Windsor, NC — unknown (assumed male)
    Wade, William S.; Aug. 24, 1909 Monroe, LA — unknown (assumed male)
    Cooksey, Wesley, 39; Sep. 5, 1927 Evansville, IN — unknown (assumed male)
    Brady, John, 22; Jan. 22 – Feb. 10, 1906 St. Louis, MO — unknown (assumed male)
    Reeb, Henry H., 36; April 25, 1940 Burlington, IA — unknown (assumed male)
    Wilkins, Nathan Van, 44; July 16/17, 2012 Tuscaloosa, AL — unknown (assumed male)

    So, I was really hoping I’d come across at least one unknown with an apparently feminine name, but the closest is Emile and I’m fairly sure that’s the male version of Emilie (either that or a typo). That sums to —

    Total — 89
    African American male — 5
    Asian male — 2
    Hispanic male — 1
    unknown — 5
    unknown (assumed Asian) — 2
    unknown (assumed Hispanic male) — 1
    unknown (assumed male) — 46 / 47 (Idk where to list Emile, this might be assumed male 46, assumed female 1)
    unknown (assumed Native American) — 1
    unknown male — 7
    white male — 19
    unknown female — 1

    Ignoring the ones where I’m guessing, that works out to one woman and 34 men; of those 34, 7 were of unknown race, 19 were white, and 8 were not white. Nineteen of 35 (I’m excluding where I had to guess) is 54%

    There you have it NWO, just over half of mass murderers, where the race and gender is known, are white men (I counted unknown race as not white for that percentage btw).

  42. Argenti Aertheri

    Karalora — I have regular M&Ms, but your virtual M&Ms can be whatever kind you like!

    Shade — ah, yeah, I was mistaken then, I thought pecunium was quoting you.

  43. Was Owly saying the Colorado shooter was the product of an anti-christian, single-mother home? Wrong, on both counts.

    I mean, whatever.

  44. Argenti Aertheri

    cloudiah — I think he was trying to claim that the CO shooter was an outlier, that most mass murderers are the result of atheism and single mother homes, but yeah, idk. I’m guessing he didn’t think anyone would actually bother going through the list of mass murderers (I’m bored, and kind of enjoy working with tedious data)

    As for that claim about 80% of criminals being from single mother households, I can’t find anything because Santorum said something stupid and he’s clogging my search results. Nor can I find anything specific to deaths on flat ground (well, in humans anyways, horse racing is clogging that search) — falls in general rank well over 350 deaths a year, but most of those seem to be from an elevation.

    Citations needed here NWO, you made the claim, now prove it.

  45. ShadetheDruid

    Suspect’s neighbor: ‘He seemed like a normal kid’ – headline from cloudiah’s link.

    Well that didn’t take long. >.<

  46. NWO: Really? Do you have proof of this? A detailed list of all mass murderers for say the last 40 years or so and their stated reason for mass murdering would suffice. I’d like to see how over 50% of mass murders in the US are committed Christian fundies.

    Do I have proof?

    Yeah, I do. Are you going to listen to it? No. But, for the benefit of those follwing along at home, I will.

    Whatever happened to correlation doesn’t equal causation? Suddenly now it does?

    What causation have I stated? I was stating a correlation; and a preponderance, as a counter to the idiocy that all terrorists are somehow, “other”.

    Here’s a round-up

    — July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

    — October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

    — December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

    — January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

    — February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

    — April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

    — April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

    — May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Topeka, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

    — June 2009: James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

    — February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

    — March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

    — March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

    — May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

    — May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

    — May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

    — July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

    That’s sixteen major incidents in a two-year period — significantly more than we’ve seen over the same timespan from domestic radical Muslims. The BPC’s report enumerates a total of seven incidents in 2009 — two attacks and five serious plots (not to mention four attempts to join terrorist organizations). We’ve had the same number of right-wing extremist-related incidents of domestic terrorism in 2010 so far — and the year isn’t even over yet.

    Here are some links about the sodium cyanide bombs I was talking about.

    Cyanide Bombers: an update

    Sources familiar with the investigation say authorities especially fear that Krar may have manufactured more than one sodium cyanide bomb and sold them. After a traffic stop earlier this year while Krar was traveling through Tennessee, state troopers seized sodium cyanide among other weapons, one government source confirmed.

    During the same stop, troopers found notes in Krar’s car.

    One of the notes titled “Trip” recommends, “You will need cash, pre-charged phone card, spare gas can and all planning in place.”

    Another note titled “Procedure” appears to represent instructions for carrying out some kind of covert operation. It lists code words for cities where meetings can take place at motels. Other codes appear to be warnings about how close police might be to catching the plotters. “Lots of light storms are predicted,” for instance, means “Move fast before they look any harder. We have a limited window remaining.”

    The same note goes on to recommend ways to divert pursuers and suggests, “We want all looking in the wrong direction.”

    Karr Plead Guilty:

    UNITED STATES ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
    Eastern District of Texas
    PRESS ROOM
    November 13, 2003

    SMITH COUNTY MAN ADMITS POSSESSING CHEMICAL WEAPONS

    (Tyler, Texas) A Tyler resident has admitted to possessing sodium cyanide, and other chemicals for the purpose of creating a dangerous weapon. WILLIAM J. KRAR pleaded guilty this morning to one count of Possessing a Dangerous Chemical Weapon. His co-defendant, JUDITH L. BRUEY, pleaded guilty to an information charging her with Conspiracy to Possess Illegal Weapons.

    The Department of Justice, in 2009, released a report (actually done under Bush II) which said the single greatest threat of terrorism was rightwing extremists:
    (U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States. Information from law enforcement and nongovernmental organizations indicates lone wolves and small terrorist cells have shown intent—and, in some cases, the capability—to commit violent acts.
    — (U//LES) DHS/I&A has concluded that white supremacist lone wolves pose the most significant domestic terrorist threat because of their low profile and autonomy—separate from any formalized group—which hampers warning efforts.
    — (U//FOUO) Similarly, recent state and municipal law enforcement reporting has warned of the dangers of rightwing extremists embracing the tactics of “leaderless resistance” and of lone wolves carrying out acts of violence.
    — (U//FOUO) Arrests in the past several years of radical militia members in Alabama, Arkansas, and Pennsylvania on firearms, explosives, and other related violations indicates the emergence of small, well-armed extremist groups in some rural areas.

    Have you heard of The Order? The Huttaree Militia? Eric Rudolph? Scott Roeder? James Kopp? John Salvi? Reverend Paul Hill? Michael Griffen? All of those people have something in common… they are in jail for terrorist acts, all but the Huttaree militia actually killed people.

    Want me to go on? Here’s some bombers, arsonists and attempted murderers, as well as those who make bomb threats and mail false anthrax: Shelley Shanon, Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe, Fr. John Earl, Clayton Waagner, Robert Weiler Jr., William Kitchens Jr.

    I was actually the target of such terrorism. While I was still in the National Guard a group of right-wing extremists planned to blow up the Armory my unit trained in.

    Here is a list of 60 terrorist plots in the US from the McVeigh Bombing, to 2005. Did you see that number, SIXTY (60) as of 2005.

    So add that to the 30, or so in 2009/2010. That’s not including the trio that was planning to kill Obama when he was going to be speaking at a stadium (the planned to take an 800+ meter shot with a high-powered rifle).

    Here’s a shorter list, which goes up to 2012 Terror from the right

    So there you are, a list of people who are right-wing Conservatives, overwhelmingly male, who have been caught engaging in terrorism. Since many of their targets are attacked, or threatened, by people who aren’t caught, we can; with some reasonableness, assume there are more.

    Go ahead, show me the longer list of left-wingers, and “islamists” who’ve been arrested in the US for for acts (or plotted) terrorism

  47. Argenti: He was addressing it to me, because I said it. Shade was in there only because NWO is too lazy to not add the irrelevant (to NWO’s comment) addressing of my comment.

  48. Carp: I misposted my reply to NWO.

    NWO: Really? Do you have proof of this? A detailed list of all mass murderers for say the last 40 years or so and their stated reason for mass murdering would suffice. I’d like to see how over 50% of mass murders in the US are committed Christian fundies.

    Do I have proof?

    Yeah, I do. Are you going to listen to it? No. But, for the benefit of those follwing along at home, I will.

    Whatever happened to correlation doesn’t equal causation? Suddenly now it does?

    What causation have I stated? I was stating a correlation; and a preponderance, as a counter to the idiocy that all terrorists are somehow, “other”.

    Here’s a round-up

    — July 2008: A gunman named Jim David Adkisson, agitated at how “liberals” are “destroying America,” walks into a Unitarian Church and opens fire, killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

    — October 2008: Two neo-Nazis are arrested in Tennessee in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

    — December 2008: In Belfast, Maine, police discover the makings of a nuclear “dirty bomb” in the basement of a white supremacist shot dead by his wife. The man, who was independently wealthy, reportedly was agitated about the election of President Obama and was crafting a plan to set off the bomb.

    — January 2009: A white supremacist named Keith Luke embarks on a killing rampage in Brockton, Mass., raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

    — February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

    — April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

    — April 2009: Another gunman in Okaloosa County, Florida, similarly fearful of Obama’s purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies when they come to arrest him in a domestic-violence matter, then is killed himself in a shootout with police.

    — May 2009: A “sovereign citizen” named Scott Roeder walks into a church in Topeka, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

    — June 2009: James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

    — February 2010: An angry tax protester named Joseph Ray Stack flies an airplane into the building housing IRS offices in Austin, Texas. (Media are reluctant to label this one “domestic terrorism” too.)

    — March 2010: Seven militiamen from the Hutaree Militia in Michigan and Ohio are arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

    — March 2010: An anti-government extremist named John Patrick Bedell walks into the Pentagon and opens fire, wounding two officers before he is himself shot dead.

    — May 2010: A “sovereign citizen” from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

    — May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

    — May 2010: Two “sovereign citizens” named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

    — July 2010: An agitated right-winger and convict named Byron Williams loads up on weapons and drives to the Bay Area intent on attacking the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, but is intercepted by state patrolmen and engages them in a shootout and armed standoff in which two officers and Williams are wounded.

    That’s sixteen major incidents in a two-year period — significantly more than we’ve seen over the same timespan from domestic radical Muslims. The BPC’s report enumerates a total of seven incidents in 2009 — two attacks and five serious plots (not to mention four attempts to join terrorist organizations). We’ve had the same number of right-wing extremist-related incidents of domestic terrorism in 2010 so far — and the year isn’t even over yet.

    Here are some links about the sodium cyanide bombs I was talking about.

    Cyanide Bombers: an update

    Sources familiar with the investigation say authorities especially fear that Krar may have manufactured more than one sodium cyanide bomb and sold them. After a traffic stop earlier this year while Krar was traveling through Tennessee, state troopers seized sodium cyanide among other weapons, one government source confirmed.

    During the same stop, troopers found notes in Krar’s car.

    One of the notes titled “Trip” recommends, “You will need cash, pre-charged phone card, spare gas can and all planning in place.”

    Another note titled “Procedure” appears to represent instructions for carrying out some kind of covert operation. It lists code words for cities where meetings can take place at motels. Other codes appear to be warnings about how close police might be to catching the plotters. “Lots of light storms are predicted,” for instance, means “Move fast before they look any harder. We have a limited window remaining.”

    The same note goes on to recommend ways to divert pursuers and suggests, “We want all looking in the wrong direction.”

    Karr Plead Guilty:

    UNITED STATES ATTORNEY’S OFFICE
    Eastern District of Texas
    PRESS ROOM
    November 13, 2003

    SMITH COUNTY MAN ADMITS POSSESSING CHEMICAL WEAPONS

    (Tyler, Texas) A Tyler resident has admitted to possessing sodium cyanide, and other chemicals for the purpose of creating a dangerous weapon. WILLIAM J. KRAR pleaded guilty this morning to one count of Possessing a Dangerous Chemical Weapon. His co-defendant, JUDITH L. BRUEY, pleaded guilty to an information charging her with Conspiracy to Possess Illegal Weapons.

    The Department of Justice, in 2009, released a report (actually done under Bush II) which said the single greatest threat of terrorism was rightwing extremists:
    (U//FOUO) DHS/I&A assesses that lone wolves and small terrorist cells embracing violent rightwing extremist ideology are the most dangerous domestic terrorism threat in the United States. Information from law enforcement and nongovernmental organizations indicates lone wolves and small terrorist cells have shown intent—and, in some cases, the capability—to commit violent acts.
    — (U//LES) DHS/I&A has concluded that white supremacist lone wolves pose the most significant domestic terrorist threat because of their low profile and autonomy—separate from any formalized group—which hampers warning efforts.
    — (U//FOUO) Similarly, recent state and municipal law enforcement reporting has warned of the dangers of rightwing extremists embracing the tactics of “leaderless resistance” and of lone wolves carrying out acts of violence.
    — (U//FOUO) Arrests in the past several years of radical militia members in Alabama, Arkansas, and Pennsylvania on firearms, explosives, and other related violations indicates the emergence of small, well-armed extremist groups in some rural areas.

    Have you heard of The Order? The Huttaree Militia? Eric Rudolph? Scott Roeder? James Kopp? John Salvi? Reverend Paul Hill? Michael Griffen? All of those people have something in common… they are in jail for terrorist acts, all but the Huttaree militia actually killed people.

    Want me to go on? Here’s some bombers, arsonists and attempted murderers, as well as those who make bomb threats and mail false anthrax: Shelley Shanon, Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe, Fr. John Earl, Clayton Waagner, Robert Weiler Jr., William Kitchens Jr.

    I was actually the target of such terrorism. While I was still in the National Guard a group of right-wing extremists planned to blow up the Armory my unit trained in.

    Here is a list of 60 terrorist plots in the US from the McVeigh Bombing, to 2005. Did you see that number, SIXTY (60) as of 2005.

    So add that to the 30, or so in 2009/2010. That’s not including the trio that was planning to kill Obama when he was going to be speaking at a stadium (the planned to take an 800+ meter shot with a high-powered rifle).

    Here’s a shorter list, which goes up to 2012 Terror from the right

    So there you are, a list of people who are right-wing Conservatives, overwhelmingly male, who have been caught engaging in terrorism. Since many of their targets are attacked, or threatened, by people who aren’t caught, we can; with some reasonableness, assume there are more.

    Go ahead, show me the longer list of left-wingers, and “islamists” who’ve been arrested in the US for for acts (or plotted) terrorism

  49. Or I didn’t, and got confused with having two of the same tab open, one of which wasn’t refreshed.

    Ooops.

  50. @pecunium

    Um overwhelminigly Christian fundies? I’m not seeing it. In fact, Christian isn’t even mentioned. Some are so obscure as to no meaning at all, “May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.”

    I didn’t realize, “unidentified white man” = Christian fundie. When I asked for mass murderers I expect a link to something more than a building being damaged. Just to clarify, mass murder means actual murder taking place. And really!!! The SPLC? You’re kidding? Right? The heart and soul of the communist front. I’m sure they seeth in anger at individuals still having the right to own property, freedom and religion. Lol. The SPLC makes stormfront look like a bunch of old ladies at a bridge club. Why not just hand me the communist manifesto? Let’s all kill the burgiousse class and live in our little utopia. Hey, I got baking soda and vinegar, ya know what that means? Terrorist.

  51. Um, pointing out the facts concerning men who commit murder is misandry. You must ignore those figures, and instead lambast women because a very small percentage of them commit murder too. So, you know, women are bad, or else…misandry!

  52. Just so ya know, the lone wolf as he’s been dubbed is a registered democrat. Damn lefties.

  53. Argenti Aertheri

    I’ll finish pecunium’s list in a moment, but need to comment on this one —

    — April 2009: A white supremacist named Richard Poplawski opens fire on three Pittsburgh police officers who come to his house on a domestic-violence call and kills all three, because he believed President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself. Poplawski is currently awaiting trial.

    That was such a clusterfuck…I’ll be amazed if they can find a jury within the city, everyone here considers him worse than guilty (he’s widely known as “that cop killer” here). That DV call though? His mother was the one who placed the call (and then it all went to shit and the city went into mourning and I really do doubt they can find an impartial jury…or judge for that matter). It all went to shit in a matter of seconds too btw, so fast actually that I’m pretty sure we’ve changed how the police respond to DV calls as a result of him.

  54. Argenti Aertheri

    “He was addressing it to me, because I said it. Shade was in there only because NWO is too lazy to not add the irrelevant (to NWO’s comment) addressing of my comment.”

    Shade already clarified that bit of confusion, but yeah, I missed that, my mistake.

    And Poplawski was tried and I missed it apparently (this is what I get for ignoring local laws I suppose) — he’s appealing a lethal injection.

  55. Argenti Aertheri

    local news, not local laws…*sigh* that case just short circuits my brain or something — the first officer to respond did the standard approach and door knock, and then took a bullet to the head, that’s a special level of fucked up.

  56. @Argenti Aertheri
    “Done with that list,”

    Now if you take that list which seems to go back to 1915, and add up everyone, you’d come up with being about 100X as like that you’ll die from walking on flat level ground. Your odds of dying from walking on flat level ground are about 430,000 to 1 on any given year. Which means your odds of dying from a mass murder attack are about 43,000,000 to 1 on any given year. The odds of dying in a mass murder attack are far less than almost anything at all.

    Do you get the point? We have the FBI, CIA, agencies you’ve never heard of, the patriot act, NDAA, the military tromping all over the world, missles firing into so many countries and the daily pravda telling us how we killed 100s of bad terrorists with each attack in a foreign land. 100s of billions spent every year to protect us from terrorism. Yet I’m far, far more likely to die from wasp stings or walking on flat level ground. Do you see the absurdity?

  57. Argenti Aertheri

    That list goes back to 1889 actually, but nonetheless, you need to cite that claim about “flat level ground” — preferably from a source that either excludes, or explains, how many of those deaths are the result of medical causes that just happened to occur on “flat level ground”.

    In any case, wtf does either the OP about Berge, or the CO shooting, have to do with the bullshit that is the war on terror? And how do any of those thing relate to deaths on “flat level ground”? (And btw, my risk on flat level ground is probably 0, there really isn’t much of that around here XD )

    “Why not just hand me the communist manifesto?”

    If we did, would you actually read it?

  58. NWO: When you asked for mass murderers you were trying to stack the deck, and exclude most terrorists, who don’t actually kill large groups of people.

    As I said, you won’t really read the list, just dismiss it out of hand.

    The statement I made wasn’t, “most mass murderers are white, male, and some stripe of fundie”, but “most terrorists in the USA are such”.

    And I supported it. Care to provide a countering list of terrorists who aren’t?

    Dishonest, that’s you.

  59. Argenti Aertheri

    pecunium — my list was mass murderers, so both claims would be correct (both mass murderers, and terrorists, are largely white men, and for the ones where religion was mentioned, every last one on my list was a christian)

  60. @pecunium
    This is what you said..,. The majority of terrorists in the US are white, male, Conservative, Christian (of a “fundamentalist” stripe).”

    Is the majority of terrorist activity, committed by Christian fundies? Further, the SLPC would be thrilled to take everyone’s property, and every right they have as well as toss every Christian into the collusuem for saturday night lion feedings. Why not cruise over to radfem while you’re at and see what they think of Christians.

    The SPLC is possibly the best funded communist center in the country. Goals of communism are to destroy the family, Christianity and give all power to the State. The SPLC is the most is so far left even for manboobers.

  61. Argenti: Sure, though in the case of simple mass-murder, as opposed to terrorism, the religious aspect isn’t likely to be at all probative. Given the default state of most of the US as some sort of christian I’m not really of the opinion that “christian” is all that material

    When we look. at terrorists, however, the nature of their religious practice becomes more of a measurable quantity. The Catholic priest on that list did what he did from a religious conviction. So to did Randolph and Schroeder and most of the others.

    They admitted it. They aren’t all christians (Rubin, for example). I also didn’t include the largest swathe of institutional terrorism in the US; which is the history of lynching; which isn’t as dead as we like to pretend, though it no longer has the overwhelming social sanction it had into the early decades of the last century. The actual enforcement of the ban on sending Lynching Postcards in the mail was much bemoaned.

    The law was passed (IIRC) in 1918, bit serious enforcement didn’t start for another decade.

    Appalling.

  62. @Argenti Aertheri
    “my list was mass murderers, so both claims would be correct (both mass murderers, and terrorists, are largely white men, and for the ones where religion was mentioned, every last one on my list was a christian)”

    Is that over 50%?

  63. Oh and neo nazi doesn’t exactly count as a christian group, nor does the KKK. Not many people I know consider either as a Christian groups. What next, somebody slept in a hotel where a bible was? Do you consider radfem feminists?

  64. The Southern Poverty Law Center

    the SLPC would be thrilled to take everyone’s property, and every right they have as well as toss every Christian into the collusuem for saturday night lion feedings. Why not cruise over to radfem while you’re at and see what they think of Christians.

    The SPLC is possibly the best funded communist center in the country.

  65. Argenti Aertheri

    “Is that over 50%?”

    That listed/mentioned religion at all? No. That were christian were it was mentioned? That was 100% as far as I noticed.

    If you meant “were white men over 50%” — yes, 54% of cases where I didn’t have to guess (considering the nearly 100% rate of male sounding names, you really want me to calculate the cases where I had to guess?)

    Pecunium’s right, in cases of mass murder their religion often didn’t play a role and thus wasn’t mentioned.

    NWO, have some of my mango juice and vodka, maybe it’ll make you less grumpy — you can’t have any if you’re going to be an angry drunk though, angry drunks are no fun at all.

  66. @Ithiliana
    “And if one looks at the organized violence designed to shut down women’s clinics and “stop abortion by murdering people” which is done by white Christians, then yeah, the MAJORITY of TERRORIST acts in the US are by white people, mostly but not entirely men:”

    Abortioneers murder 1.5 million people a year, about 60 million since R-v-W. Let me know when 60 million abortionists are murdered. Too funny. The terrorist’s calling some trying to stop the terror a terrorist. Is Tiller the killer dead? Just as dead as all those unborn children he slaughtered.

  67. What Christian values do you believe in/practice, NWO? I mean, you’re always frothing at the mouth about the misrepresentation and denigration of Christian values but coming from you it all seems like so much sound and fury. Mostly fury.

    You want sex slaves and the right to wave your erection in the faces of eight year old girls. You advocate for vigilantism among other forms of violence. You believe that forgiveness is finite; you are judgmental and hypocritical. You do not love your enemies. Your heart is full of hate.

    What is Christianity to you, apart from primitive tribalism?

  68. @Argenti Aertheri
    ” NWO, have some of my mango juice and vodka, maybe it’ll make you less grumpy — you can’t have any if you’re going to be an angry drunk though, angry drunks are no fun at all.”

    It’s your lucky day, I don’t drink.

  69. NWO: Is the majority of terrorist activity, committed by Christian fundies?

    Not quite, but close. White males, Conservative, of a Fundamentalist stripe of Christianity.

    And I provided evidence. You have done nothing but make an ad hominem attack against one of my sources; and doing it by bearing false witness about that source.

    There are other sources.

    So, I’ve made a case; you’ve not responded to it.

    Which means I’m still right.

    Oh and neo nazi doesn’t exactly count as a christian group, nor does the KKK. Not many people I know consider either as a Christian groups

    The KKK says they are. Nazis… they vary. The German Nazis had their own sect (the official religion of the party), “Positive Christianty.

    NSDAP Party Programm. February 24, 1920, Point 24: “We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: The good of the state before the good of the individual.” Quoted in Robert Michael and Philip Rosen (2007). Dictionary of Antisemitism from the Earliest Times to the Present Lanham: Scarecrow Press, p. 321

    The US branches of Nazism tend to adopt some variation on this (it deriving from the idea of Kirche, Kuche, Kinder, which wasn’t actually a Nazi slogan) so that sects such as Christian Identity, Church of Jesus Christ–Christian, World Church of the Creator, and the Creativity Movement in general.

    So yeah, I’d say most Nazis in America think themselves to be Christians, and fundamentalist in their beliefs.

  70. Argenti Aertheri

    “What Christian values do you believe in/practice, NWO?”

    I am also curious on that one. That whole “love your neighbor” thing doesn’t just mean the neighbor you like, they’re easy to love, it means that one who’s always tossing their cigarette butts in your yard and playing loud music at 4am (or in your case NWO, it means the one wearing a bikini in her yard where you can see her…and don’t forget that lusting with your eyes is committing an affair in your heart and that that’s your problem, not hers).

    It certainly can’t be the “turn the other cheek” part, considering how you reacted to “Jesus tapdancing Christ”

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