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A Voice for Men continues to spread its message of peace, love, and f*cking people’s sh*t up

Poor Paul Elam. Here he is, the self-annointed leader of the world’s greatest 21st century human rights movement, and for some strange reason people keep mistaking him for some sort of two-bit hatemonger.

No, really!

In his latest post on A Voice for Men, Mr. Elam laments the evil way one Australian news site took AVFM’s rallying cry  – “Fuck Their Shit Up” — and made it seem kind of mean. Also, they added an “ing” to “fuck.” Elam writes:

[Journalist Tory] Shepherd (or her editors) gave a subheading to her piece which read:

Hate site’s motto is ‘F***king their s**t up

Misuse of the transitive verb aside, and ignoring the fact that even when properly quoted it is not the sites motto (which is “Take the Red Pill”), the use of that phrase in the sub-header was calculated to make AVfM appear to be a hate site.

How unfair to tag a website with the slogan it uses constantly! And, really, how could anyone see “fuck their shit up” as anything but a spirited call for peacefulness, understanding, and love?

Elam continues:

It is intended to make us look as though we have violent leanings; that we are a threat to the personal security of feminists, and indeed to women in general.

Because of this potential for misunderstanding, Elam has decided to retire the catchphrase in favor of one that will more accurately convey AVFM’s message of love.

Oops, sorry. That would be a logical thing to do, and Elam is clearly a man beyond mere logic.

Instead, he decided to see how many times he could use the phrase “fuck their shit up” and variants thereof in the course of a single blog post. To make counting easier in the quotes that follow, I will put each use of the phrase in bold.

I have a personal, deeply personal message for [Tory Shepherd] and for two others of her ilk associated with this “story.”

Tory Shepherd, I am here to fuck your shit up.

Betty McLellan, I am here to fuck your shit up

Michael Flood, I am here to fuck your shit up.

And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way. I want the harsh, unforgiving light of truth to shine on you and other hateful swine that spread bigotry and violence under the guise of advancing the cause of women.

Nothing hateful to see here, move right along!

Oh, wait, there’s more:

Do I want to fuck these peoples shit up? Oh yes, I certainly do. And it has already begun to happen. …

This, and by that I mean the truth, is fucking their shit up. It is happening in the best possible way and all their powerless wailing and lies about FTSU meaning violence won’t stop it.

The growth of this movement depends, wholly and completely, on our ideas being exposed to rational people who value fairness and justice. We are now getting that exposure, and it is scaring the living shit out of the likes of McLellan, Shepherd and Flood.

That fear looks damned good on them. …

We are dealing with liars and bigots. They have no sense of honor or decency.  When I call Michael Flood a sociopathic pig, it is not an adolescent ad hominem used in the absence of substance, but an unavoidable conclusion rooted in the reality of his conduct as a human being. …

We are not compelled to play nice with these hateful ideologues any more than we would feel compelled to politely discuss race relations with the Ku Klux Klan, or debate reproductive rights with people who bomb abortion clinics.

Our one and only job is to fuck their shit up; to make them suffer the pain of truth, and to keep doing it till they have no place to hide. …

All we have to do is fuck their shit up, then wake up tomorrow and do it again. They are powerless to stop it.

And … scene!

So that’s eight uses of Elam’s favorite catchphrase in one post. Paul and hate make eight! Oh, wait, the title of the post is also “Fuck Their Shit Up.” So that’s nine. Oh, and he used the acronym FTSU twice, too, once in the post and once in his bio. That’s eleven.

Keep digging, Paul! And take the rest of the MRAs down to the center of the earth with you, while you’re at it.

Oh, and apparently AVFM’s JohnTheOther has written an entire post of his own, also attacking Shepherd, also complaining about the evil of people quoting AVFM’s favorite catchphrase (and sometimes even adding “ing” to it), and quite possibly accusing her of supporting mass murder. I’m not sure of the details. I just glanced at it. I refuse to read the whole thing on general principle. Life is short, and JtO’s posts are really, really long.

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Posted on July 19, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, douchebaggery, drama kings, harassment, hate, I'm totally being sarcastic, incoherent rage, men who should not ever be with men ever, men who should not ever be with ponies ever, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, paul elam, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 114 Comments.

  1. my face

    my palm

    they have joined in beautiful congress

    what is life

    why.

  2. He wants to *literally* fuck their shit up? Their literal shit? What does that involve?

  3. @Graham: I literally think that literal people who use literal as some form of asshat emphasis should literally be smacked.

    Literally fucking their shit would I presume involve collecting their shit (I hope they charge him for it!), and fucking it.

    Seems like that might be a good match for his skill set and capabilities.

    LITERALLY!

  4. serpentineminer

    @graham. Bad tacos. Too much beer. A really spicy curry. Basically he wants to feed them. See? Peace and love!

  5. How dare people suggest that we’re a threat to the safety of feminists! BTW, people who I think are feminists, I’m going to fuck your shit up. Just so you know.

    Should we start calling him No Self-Awareness Man?

  6. “Accuse me of making violent threats? I’ll show you violent threats!”

    #abuserlogic

  7. Paul Elam: literally a shit fucker.

  8. I clicked through to the post to see if David was hiding some context, some part where Elam explains that “fuck their shit up” is a metaphor for peaceful ideological change.

    The post image was of a boxer standing over a defeated opponent. Erm.

    The closest he gets to justifying it as non-violent is this bit:

    Do I want to fuck these peoples shit up? Oh yes, I certainly do. And it has already begun to happen. Just a very few years ago the men’s movement was sequestered away from even having a strong presence on the internet. We were a ragtag group of social renegades that mainly talked amongst ourselves because the rest of the world was caught headlong in a sweeping tide of feminist agitprop.

    [...] We are also seeing a rapidly growing effort to attempt to shut us up, including the efforts of the SPLC, which you can read about here.

    They are destined to fail.

    This, and by that I mean the truth, is fucking their shit up. It is happening in the best possible way and all their powerless wailing and lies about FTSU meaning violence won’t stop it.

    So you see it’s just a needlessly aggressive and violent metaphor for MRAs, er, continuing to exist. Get up in the morning, scratch your ass, shit out a couple “yeah right on Paul” comments on AVfM? You are Fucking Their Shit Up. And if people are offended by your comments, that’s like double FTSU points.

    That’s almost sadder. I mean, it’s not violent I guess, yay for that, but it shows just how incredibly myopic and petty their idea of “activism” is.

  9. JtO’s argument:

    Shepherd interviewed Betty McLellan. McLellan contributes to Radfem hub. Other people on Radfem Hub proposed getting rid of men through eugenics, and other terrible things. Therefore, everyone associated with Radfem Hub advocates mass murder. AVfM opposes Radfem Hub. Therefore everyone who criticizes AVfM must agree with every post and/or comment on Radfem Hub. Therefore Shepherd advocates mass murder.

    Also, by calling MRAs “extremists” Shepherd allies herself with US military aggression. Therefore, Shepherd is also to blame for drone strikes in Pakistan, apparently.
    At the end, he highlights a call to contact Shepherd, and for some reason — inexplicable, since we all know they are all about peace and love — he feels the need to remind them not “to include threats of violence, or damage to property.”

    I’ll just say, that this is an unusually bad piece of writing, even for JtO. Incomplete sentences, clashing verb tenses, a terrible semicolon massacre about 2/3 of the way through that still has my eyes bleeding…

    Does JtO actually support mass murder of the English language? To quote JtO, I wouldn’t bet on no.

  10. Okay, so Elam meant literally fucking their shit up metaphorically. Is this a literal metaphor or a metaphorical metaphor? Is it literally a metaphorical metaphor, or?

    This literally makes my brain freeze.

  11. I find it pretty odd (and quite telling), Futrelle, that you try to infer from these quotes that Paul & co. are advocating physical violence against women (even though they have explicitly condemned it countless times), and completely ignore it when feminists openly advocate violence against men and little boys, promote neglect of male infants, sex-selective abortions, eugenics, and did I mention violence against little boys?

    I also love how you omitted the link in Paul’s article to an article at Fathers 4 Equality which PROVES what a sociopath Michael Flood is. Since you’re too much of a fucking coward to show it, I’ll do it myself: http://www.f4e.com.au/blog/2011/11/17/michael-flood-when-equality-becomes-the-new-enemy-of-feminism/

    Just give it up. You’re fighting a losing battle.* And no, trying to discredit my links just because they came from MRA websites will not help you.

    *denotes a quote which you could mine and take out of context to continue trying to make MRAs look violent.

  12. So, did Steele Sorebuttpole ever send Elam an email regarding Tom Martin? Any denouncing child prostitution?

  13. And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way.

    This is one of the best things I’ve ever read on this site. “Since I’m obviously smarter than you, let me explain that I misuse words so badly that I just declared that I really want to have sex with your feces forever.”

  14. FTSU was really damn popular in middle school. I don’t think I’ve heard the phrase between then and now.

  15. So when I call Paul Elam a sociopathic pig, it is not an adolescent ad hominem used in the absence of substance, but an unavoidable conclusion rooted in the reality of his conduct as a human being. …

    Elame, if the shoe fits…

  16. I’m more fascinated by the discovery that there’s a university in Australia which employs both a woman who writes for RedFemHub and a man who writes for A Voice for Men.

    This fracas should, nay must, end with them falling in love.

  17. That fear looks damned good on them. …

    Really, Elam? You’re going with “I like seeing people in fear” in your blog post about how you’re being misrepresented as violent? Okee doke.

  18. “We hate you!” … “How dare you call us a hate site!? Now we REALLY hate you for calling us haters!” You almost feel bad for them, they make the mocking almost too easy.

  19. Quoting from Cliff’s quotation:

    just a very few years ago the men’s movement was sequestered away from even having a strong presence on the internet.

    Uh, I suggest you search google groups for the soc.men newsgroup archives. It’s been more than “just a very few years” that MRAs have been online. They just didn’t catch on via usenet, and seem to be struggling with blogs.

  20. Was John the Other the VERB! VERB! ONOMATOPOEIA! (Hey! I spelled that right my first try!) guy?

  21. 3 years later and flabtrelle still hasn’t gotten over the fact that he got spanked in the debate ;(((((((((((((((((

  22. “Our successes are due to the righteousness of our cause! Our failures are due to our many powerful enemies!

  23. 3 years later and flabtrelle still hasn’t gotten over the fact that he got spanked in the debate ;(((((((((((((((((

    which is of course why he’s the one showing up in someone elses comment section to make dumb potshots, duh

  24. CharlotteCollins

    Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

    But that’s just all in good fun!

    Hypocritical much?

  25. My question is, what EXACTLY do they mean by “fuck their shit up”? It’s always left as vague as possible, with allusions to “evil feminist plots” (that are never specified) that must be defeated.

    I’m not sure that “hot young conventionally attractive women have an easier time finding interested sex partners than most white, passive-aggressive misogynistic men” is really a great rallying cry to remove basic human rights for women.

    If the great feminist conspiracy is to have women be treated like actual HUMAN BEINGS, then color me unconvinced that this is some kind of bad thing.

  26. Argenti Aertheri

    …why do people keep trying to insult David’s weight like this isn’t in the FAQ?

    Q) I heard some MRAs call you fat. Are you fat?

    A) Yes, I am fat. This may be the only true thing that MRAs have ever said about me.

    Get some new material.

  27. how many times do we have to be like, ‘youre right, jezebel kind of sucks’ before you dudes will stop being like ‘but what about jezebel, huh, what do you have to say about that’

    but seriously, if youre comparing a middle school lunchtime game to paul elams screaming violence tantrums than i dunno what to tell you besides get a sense of proportion

  28. My question is, what EXACTLY do they mean by “fuck their shit up”? It’s always left as vague as possible, with allusions to “evil feminist plots” (that are never specified) that must be defeated

    paul elam thinks that if he talks all the time about vaguely violent shit, but never actually tells anyone to go out and commit acts of violence then everyone is fooled. this is either because he is stupid or he thinks that his readers or stupid. or both.

  29. CassandraSays

    RE Elam, I suspect that it’s because he knows that being more specific might get him in trouble with the authorities. He skirts just barely on the right side of the law from a technical point of view while pissing all over the spirit behind it.

  30. howardbann1ster

    OMG, there was a debate? Is there video-tape footage? Do they really rant and claim victory IRL as on the forums?

    I feel like such a newbie right now!!!

  31. Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

    Oh no, Jezebel author Every Woman Ever, you have let us down once again.

    No, srsly, Jezebel is pretty terrible at feminism, this is not news, nor does it prove that playing FMK is somehow feminist and all the feminists love it.

  32. Charlotte: But that’s just all in good fun!

    Well… who there is saying they would, “literally” make that choice to kill someone?

    Who there is saying, “fear looks good on them”?

    It may be in less than brilliant taste (Jezebel often is, IMO), but I’ve yet to see anything there which said, And in case any of the three of you are as stupid as you sound, I mean it literally. I want your shit fucked up in a permanent and irreversible way.

    It’s a bit telling that Elam, et al, have to make such a point that they don’t encourage violence. If they don’t mean to inspire violence, why make violent rhetoric such a large part of the motif?

  33. Howard: There was an attempt at debate. Elam tried to take his ball and go home.

    Then he declared victory, which is why his miserable lackies, and lickspittle minions, like meadering over here to mewl laboriously about his brilliance. (Varpole, not that I played with language. Four gibes, alternating ML and LM, twice. That’s the sort of thing you can teach yourself to do)

  34. What amuses me is that they must think it some sort of victory, or they wouldn’t keep bringing it up.

    Every time they do, it gets linked, and people who would otherwise live in blissful ignorance are apprised of it.

    And thus expose Elam to more critical evaluation.

  35. Doctress Ju'ulia

    I am a radical feminist, and I dot no advocate mass murder. I also don’t wanna fall in love.

    Anyone who enjoys seeing other people in fear is a shit-fuckin’ psychopath.

  36. Doctress Ju'ulia

    Do NOT, rather.

  37. howardbann1ster

    Awww, no videotape. Booooo!

    And reading how it went–yeah, they seriously want to bring that up? It really does show how they think. “We yelled louder–we must have won!” “We got to heap abuse on people–we must have won!”

    Yeah.

    One of the trolls here kept posting something recently, about how they kept trying and trying, repeating the truth clearly, but we either could not understand them or claimed it was hateful garbage they were shoveling. Their conclusion is that every single one of us was somehow unable to understand complex things.

    The much simpler idea that they were ranting hateful garbage just never was even considered as a possibility.

    Hey, wasn’t Steele saying that the Men’s Rights Movement was about helping the exploited? And he was gonna go tell Paul Elam on TM?

    …oh, Steele…?

  38. I like how Hippie Redneck’s little link-dump of All The Terrible Things of Feminism points solely to AVfM.

    See how terrible Paul Elam says feminists are?

    (Psst. If you want to talk about the terrible things someone says, link to the things they say.)

  39. Oh please. Jezebel has [snip]

    You do know that Jezebel has been called out for misogyny on this very site, right?

  40. 2-D Man – It is a well-known fact in the MRA community that if you ever read feminist writing directly, you’ll grow hair on your palms and go blind.

  41. howardbann1ster

    You do know that Jezebel has been called out for misogyny on this very site, right?

    I think we already established that context and consistency are misandry.

  42. CassandraSays

    Also I think blogs written or read by women may also be misandry, in that they distract women from their sammich making and blow-job giving duties.

  43. CassandraSays

    Wow, could I have fit the word “also” into that comment any more often? Apparently Steele’s shitty writing is contagious.

  44. 2-D Man: Why don’t you actually try clicking on the goddamn links? They’re screenshots from a feminist website whose members do fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

  45. Is Charlotte Ruby’s slightly smarter but just as yappy and pointless sister?

    Chalrotte, run along–we’ve said repeatedly that Jezebel sucks it, so back to the Treehouse with you.

  46. 2-D Man: Why don’t you actually try clicking on the goddamn links? They’re screenshots from a feminist website whose members do fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    Oh no, they’ve discovered that ALL FEMINISTS EVERYWHERE are represented by like thirty people on RadHub! Seriously, we don’t even like them, they’re usually jerks to trans women and sex workers, and sometimes even to straight women.

    And I like how “made a donation to the SPLC” has gotten spin-doctored into “are the SPLC’s official fundraising team.”

  47. Argenti Aertheri

    This is about to be one of those times an MRA says “clicks the links (it isn’t as bad as David says)” and its actually worse, isn’t it?

  48. Why don’t you actually try clicking on the goddamn links? They’re screenshots from a feminist website whose members do fundraising for the Southern Poverty Law Center.

    were already aware of your weird stalky obsession with radfemhub, thx. yall deserve each other.

  49. @argenti

    it’s a bunch of agent orange screen caps. because they still think that proves something.

  50. srsly hr you guys and radfemhub are just the right size to engage in a long irrelevant feud with each other and i totally encourage both of you to do just that instead of bothering other people

  51. Argenti Aertheri

    “it’s a bunch of agent orange screen caps. because they still think that proves something.”

    Well, it does proof one thing — radfemhub might actually have a point about men infiltrating women’s spaces (now, if only they could not lump trans* women in with men, they’d have an actual point that didn’t make other feminists hate them)

    Kind of have to love how agent orange did exactly what they accuse men of doing though…

  52. AVfM helps SPLC fundraising efforts, I’m sure. Though presumably they don’t intend to.

  53. Crumbelievable

    denotes a quote which you could mine and take out of context to continue trying to make MRAs look violent.

    “Let’s face it guys if it was about size or domination, or patriarchy or anything other than power, wouldn’t we be kicking the shit out of women on a daily basis in the streets? The only reason men don’t randomly pound the shit out of women who can’t keep their mouths shut, is because they don’t mean anything to us and they have no power over or in our lives. They are not worth the trouble! That’s the only reason there isn’t bodies strewn all over the streets.”

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-lies-feminism/domestic-violence-a-long-winded-response-to-paul/

    Please tell me how this quote has been taken out of context.

  54. Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

    But that’s just all in good fun!

    We have a lot of fools in our comments today, don’t we? Dude, that is a common game. Not ‘common among women’, not ‘common amongst feminists’. ‘common in our culture, amongst everyone’. ‘Kill’ just means that’s the one you like least for some warped reason, not that you will actually kill them. That’s not even the littlest bit equivalent, however much you wish it were so. I mean, you could say it doesn’t say positive things about MEriken culture, no doubt, but it is hardly an indictment of feminist violence XD

    This is what you have to put alongside “THE TIME HAS COME TO FUCK THEIR SHIT UP”, huh? XD

  55. @Argenti Aertheri
    “(now, if only they could not lump trans* women in with men, they’d have an actual point that didn’t make other feminists hate them)”

    Well there’s no such thing as trans anything. Since we’re entertaining the ridiculous, why not trans species as well. Can you imagine a childs confusion just trying to fill out a parental form? “Well my mom-dad-mom-chimp #4 was a man, who transed to a woman, who went gay while being respecied, who afterwards transed back to a man, where I was implanted from a turkey baster sperm joint between my two lesbian mom/dads of which both transed back and forth repeatedly, after shacking up with the family dog, who also transed.”

    That’s not likely to be a big hit in the old MRA department.Hwne you do and say ridiculous things you rightfully are ridiculed. Somehow this excapes the collective brainpower of the herd.

  56. They’re hit and run trolls/fools today. No stamina.

  57. I think Tuley is right. They are being literally metaphorical about their metaphors. In a literal way. Wait, what?

  58. That guy is one classless dude.

  59. Jezebel also has a prominent disclaimer at the top of the FMK posts saying they don’t actually endorse murder. Bad taste? Sure. Misandry? Possibly. Advocating Violence? Not even close. Where is the disclaimer in front of the FTSU rants? Oh yeah- there isn’t one.

  60. Oh please. Jezebel has a feature called “Fuck, Marry, Kill” where three men are lined up and readers encouraged to contemplate which one they would have sex with, which one they would consider as a partner and which one they would murder.

    But that’s just all in good fun!

    Others have touched on this, but it’s also a question of the relationship between rhetoric and real-world outcomes. You bet your ass that if Hitler had ended speeches with “Fuck, Marry, Kill: the armies of Western Europe, the noble womenfolk of the Third Reich, the Jews!” that we wouldn’t play that game anymore.

    But of course FMK isn’t actually related to any such atrocity. Whereas the violent rhetoric Elam produces is not dissimilar to the rhetoric leading up to many instances of actual violence.

    Not that I feel obliged to defend Jezebel, but come the hell on.

  61. They’re so angry that they can’t force women to be with their shitty, violent, abusive selves, so they think that acting like HUGE ABUSIVE JERKS and advocating for the removal of women’s rights to be treated equally to men is actually going to win anyone over?

    “Oh watch out, wimminz- if you don’t let us get the LEGAL RIGHT to rape, beat and abuse you, we’ll rape, beat and abuse you ANYWAY!”

    Er…..was that supposed to convince me? Really?

  62. NWO what were you huffing today? I didn’t know trans people considered themselves another species….

  63. Well there’s no such thing as trans anything. Since we’re entertaining the ridiculous, why not trans species as well. Can you imagine a childs confusion just trying to fill out a parental form? “Well my mom-dad-mom-chimp #4 was a man, who transed to a woman, who went gay while being respecied, who afterwards transed back to a man, where I was implanted from a turkey baster sperm joint between my two lesbian mom/dads of which both transed back and forth repeatedly, after shacking up with the family dog, who also transed.”

    Like serious do you even know what trans means? It has utterly nothing to do with “crossing species” unless you think men and women are a different species or something….oh wait…

    Whats it to you if someone modifies their body anyway? Do you freak out each time someone gets body modifications like ear rings or tattoos?

    Also transed?????? dog trans???? respecied???? chimp #4??

    I have no idea whats up with your weird sexual fantasy about trans people and animals but keep it to yourself.

  64. I was going to say “if all that makes people happy, what of it” when I realized Slavey doesn’t actually want people to be happy. He’s deeply unhappy because he’s internalized the social roles that have been imposed on him, which is why he’s so resentful of people who manage to buck some of that and simultaneously so angry at anyone who encourages him to.

  65. Hwne you do and say ridiculous things you rightfully are ridiculed. Somehow this excapes the collective brainpower of the herd.

    Yes, doing and saying ridiculous things will get you rightfully ridiculed. Yet this escapes the brainpower of MRAs posting on a blog site dedicated to mocking misogyny.

  66. @Erl

    They play “Shag, Marry, Kill,” with men and women on Andy Cohen’s live Bravo show. It is a very silly game. And if that is the best example of men’s oppression that you can think of, Charlotte, you might as well just go back to bed and call in sick.

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