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Things I learned from Reddit: Feminists can’t be atheists. Also, they shouldn’t ever try to translate ancient Greek.

Things I learned on Reddit today.

1) From a_weed_wizard in the Men’s Rights subreddit, I learned that feminists cannot be atheists:

GirlWritesWhat agrees:

I’m not sure where those downvotes came from, since everything GirlWritesWhat says is by definition true.

2) From AskHistorians, I learned that feminists trying to correctly translate ancient Greek are evil man-hating monsters. Check out the downvotes on EggyMc!

Obviously, she’s retranslating with malice aforethought!

In this case, it’s easy to tell where at least some of the downvotes are coming from:  A link on the Men’s Rights subreddit.

MRAs: protecting ancient Greek history from MISANDRY since 2012!

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ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

@Andy

The person who said men are more likely to be criminal was a troll and we didn’t agree with her. I for one don’t see much man hating on this site, compared to most MRAs impressions of this blog. I have found the commenters to be very open and welcoming to people of all genders, trans people, gay, lesbian (I feel weird using queer since it was so insulting once upon a time).

But if someone immediately starts bashing women and regurgitating MRA talking points, they are going to be met with criticism and hostility.

I have never seen a nicer group of people online than here at Manboobz. They have forgiven me when I’ve made blunders. You really have to be a consistent asshat (like Ruby) for them to turn on you.

I think if you hadn’t come in expecting to alienate you would have had a better reception. But unfortunately a lot of trolls come here to stir up trouble.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

Also, I don’t know scapemind’s gender, and it really doesn’t matter. I don’t why I typed her.

ragefromthebasement
8 years ago

And I am Fembot. My name registers as Rage…on my iPhone.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Also, I don’t know scapemind’s gender, and it really doesn’t matter. I don’t why I typed her.”

Doesn’t really matter with scrapemind, ze was playing at guessing people’s gender, so your guess is literally as good as mine here.

Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

Ok, I guess waffles 😀

Fembot
Fembot
8 years ago

Damn, now I want waffles 🙁

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Thanks Fembot, I just finished a waffle cone and now I want actual waffles too (Steele + Martin + scrapemind = cranky Argenti …and that NWO thing last night, we’ll just ignore that…)

katz
8 years ago

I have never seen a nicer group of people online than here at Manboobz. They have forgiven me when I’ve made blunders. You really have to be a consistent asshat (like Ruby) for them to turn on you.

Even with Ruby, when she was just being an evo-psych/libertarian/internet atheist asshat, there was a general agreement to still be polite to her whenever she wasn’t expressing obnoxious opinions. Eg, if she said “those kittens are cute,” people would respond “yes, they’re cute,” not “but you just think that because your woman-brain is evolutionarily wired that way, amirite?”

It was only when she started laughing at rape that people stopped putting up with her.

Michael Lindsay
8 years ago

Someone needs to inform P.Z. Myers that he’s religious-according to MRA’s, I’m sure he’d be rather amused.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

The person who said men are more likely to be criminal was a troll and we didn’t agree with her. I for one don’t see much man hating on this site, compared to most MRAs impressions of this blog.

Hand on heart, I’ve seen virtually none, certainly not from the regulars. And as a man, I suspect I’d have noticed.

Tellingly, whenever someone describes Manboobz as a cesspit of seething misandry, they either go quiet or change the subject when concrete proof is demanded. And that’s because we all know that such proof would be impossible to furnish without hacking into the site and rewriting the evidence on a grand scale.

I have never seen a nicer group of people online than here at Manboobz. They have forgiven me when I’ve made blunders. You really have to be a consistent asshat (like Ruby) for them to turn on you.

Even people who are worse than Ruby get the kid-glove treatment: the guy whose initials are an anagram of ‘LARM’ got an amazing amount of sympathy on a great many occasions despite demonstrably being an abusive trolling asshat, and more recently there was the overwhelmingly supportive reaction when Zarat admitted that he’d been seriously abused as a child. Even Owly’s had nice responses on occasion. Not sure about DKM, but he doesn’t deserve them.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Not sure about DKM, but he doesn’t deserve them.”

Idk about to him, but people have said that he seems happy with his dolls — that was in the context of NWO seeming sad, and maybe needing a hobby besides manboobz, iirc.

And yeah, pre-“prison rape is hilarious” general consensus was that it was mean to bring up Ruby’s ev-psych every time she said anything, but then she went and insisted, repeatedly, that prison rape of “evil people” is hilarious — and tried pulling some shit about how we have sympathy for evil people?!? That she seems to think she has some moral high ground because she thinks prison rape is sometimes “justice” is what really did it for me, this isn’t some “you watch too much TV, please learn something” problem.

Hell, Steele’s called us vile disgusting evil scumbags (repeatedly), he’s been called an asshole and idiot in return (he’s way beyond tedious at this point, I’m really hoping he sticks the flounce).

Shorter version — y’all really are some of the nicest people on the internet.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Yeah, I’ve made a point of not making fun of DKM’s fetish since it’s just a fetish and lots of people have them.

And yeah, pre-”prison rape is hilarious” general consensus was that it was mean to bring up Ruby’s ev-psych every time she said anything, but then she went and insisted, repeatedly, that prison rape of “evil people” is hilarious — and tried pulling some shit about how we have sympathy for evil people?!?

There’s a famous monk in my religion who is reported to have prayed even for demons, because he had compassion for them. This sort of thing is held up as the ideal. Shit, I hope I really do “have sympathy for evil people,” then I’ll be doing what I’m supposed to do, morally.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

Yeah, I’ve made a point of not making fun of DKM’s fetish since it’s just a fetish and lots of people have them.

An excellent point.

And I also make a point of trying to work out in advance (and sometimes asking outright) if someone’s native language isn’t English, as they might well miss tonal nuances through no fault of their own. (I can’t remember his name now, but there was a troll the other day who clearly didn’t understand a fair chunk of the stuff being aimed in his direction: he wasn’t just being obtuse like Steele or Tom Martin).

Shit, I hope I really do “have sympathy for evil people,” then I’ll be doing what I’m supposed to do, morally.

My wife is seriously thinking of retraining as a psychosexual therapist, and I think she’d be brilliant at it: she combines keen intellectual curiosity with the necessary compassion and understanding, even in cases of behavior falling well outside what society in general might consider acceptable.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Re: DKM’s dolls — yeah whatever, the excessive sharing is what gets to me — that TMI line, he blows right past it (while trying to defend he doesn’t do anything sexual with his dolls and somehow only making it worse).

“I can’t remember his name now, but there was a troll the other day…”

Eurosabra perhaps? I’m not sure if he’s a non-native speaker though, one of the many questions he didn’t answer.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

No – it was a few days ago. Definitely not Eurosabra, whose creepy witterings I’ve been aware of for years.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

Argenti:

Re: DKM’s dolls — yeah whatever, the excessive sharing is what gets to me — that TMI line, he blows right past it (while trying to defend he doesn’t do anything sexual with his dolls and somehow only making it worse).

No, there was a post a few months past which was definitely sexual. He puts perfume on them and then looks at them while he masturbates, iirc.

VoIP
VoIP
8 years ago

But “Oh yeah? Well you like dolls!” is not a rejoinder to his horrible sexism/racism, it’s just bigoted.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

VoIP — I knew of the perfume part, I either missed or blocked the masturbation part (TMI!). “You like dolls!” is, at fucking best, childish.

Veronica K. B. (@VeronicaInPink)

Doesn’t really matter with scrapemind, ze was playing at guessing people’s gender, so your guess is literally as good as mine here.

Or you can click his name and read his Twitter profile 🙂

Bostonian
8 years ago

So the many people on this board who are happily partnered are completely ignored by Andy and his FOREIGN BRIDE?

I have a spouse who was born in Hong Kong(came here at 5 years old, naturalized US citizen when 19), who is also a feminist! We have two kids, which is misandry, according to MRAs.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

I think some of you guys have a problem with men because the guys your attracted to don’t like you.

Ugh. Dude, you could have skipped the rest of your bullshit ramble, I think it was pretty obvious this is what you were winding towards anyway. All troll roads lead to “y’all are feminists cause you can’t get a guy to fuck you!”, apparently.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

I think some of you guys have a problem with men because the guys your attracted to don’t like you.

Which ones? I’ve always got the general impression that most of the regulars here are very happy indeed with their various partnerships. My own marriage could hardly be happier right now – after a decade of tweaks and adjustments, I think we’ve got the work-life-family balance more or less perfect.

I think some of you guys have a problem with men because the guys your attracted to don’t like you.

Which people here “have a problem with men”? You really haven’t been reading Manboobz properly at all, have you?

I think the MRA guys have a problem with women because they’re not able to attract one.

Now there we’re closer to agreeing – it’s been patently obvious to me that a lot of our regular trolls, certainly including NWO and Zarat, are desperately unhappy about something pretty fundamental, which is presumably one of the reasons that they periodically lash out here. It’s also the reason that they often get a surprisingly sympathetic hearing, despite the vile bullshit they usually spew.

That’s why you always have to try to emasculate a male poster by calling them “cupcake” or something

…says the man who thought that it was appropriate to address a mixed-sex group with a high average IQ as “gals“.

I’m a man, and I’ve never felt even the tiniest bit emasculated here. If you treat other people with respect, the rest of us will show it to you in turn. And sometimes even if you don’t.

But you got off to a lousy start, and the hole’s been getting deeper ever since.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

Gaah, blockquote fail!

In case it’s not obvious, the sentence “I think the MRA guys have a problem with women because they’re not able to attract one” should also have been blocked out.

Ugh
Ugh
8 years ago

Shorter Andy:
“I agree with every argument you all have made. However, you also called me out on describing my girlfriend entirely in terms of what she does for me. You also called me out on explicitly saying that it was much easier to get a pretty girl to do those things for me abroad because, in America, women have all that equality and economic independence.

These are uncomfortable things for me to reconcile because then I might have to consider why it was so difficult for me to have a relationship prior to this. So, I’m calling you all big meanies and leaving.”

Veronica K. B. (@VeronicaInPink)

I missed this the first time as the wall of text sort of bored me …

I think some of you guys have a problem with men because the guys your attracted to don’t like you.[…] That’s why you always have to try to emasculate a male poster by calling them “cupcake” or something and thats why MRA guys have to call American women skanks. Both sides are compensating for the fact they really just aren’t too happy in their lives.

Ah the infamous strawman-feminist.

I don’t dislike men, just some (MRAs and assholes in general). And I don’t care if the men I find attractive likes me back or not because I’m not interested in dating men. I’m also quite happy with my life.

As for what feminism is, try:
http://www.feminism101.com

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

I think some of you guys have a problem with men because the guys your attracted to don’t like you.

Some tropes just never get old, huh?

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

I thinks it’s called a trope once it got old.

Unimaginative
Unimaginative
8 years ago

No – it was a few days ago. Definitely not Eurosabra, whose creepy witterings I’ve been aware of for years.

Was it glossary troll? The Swedish (I think) person who was spamming the FAQs.

M Dubz
M Dubz
8 years ago

@Andy- If you are so goddamned happy with your girlfriend, why do you feel the need to bitch about how Everyone Hates American Women? If you are really comfortable and secure in your life without us, why do you feel the need to tell us that your girlfriend thinks we are awful and shallow, and complain about how none of us will fuck you? You have someone who makes you happy. Go and be happy. We will not begrudge the loss, I can assure you of that.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Katz: Would any of our resident penis-bearers care to weigh in on whether warm sun or a gentle breeze can cause a boner?

Not in my experience. It can feel nice, but not that sort of nice. Since Ive often had an outdoor hot-tub, and/or a garden I’ve spent a moderate amount of time naked in the out of doors, in the past 30 years or so (And I lived out of doors for three months in 2003). As a different data point one of the interesting things about SF/Berkely is that obscenity is unlawful, but nudity isn’t obscene. So there are people who wander about without clothes. I’ve never seen one [outside of things like the Folsom Street Fair] who was popping wood.

magpie
8 years ago

If Andy is USian and now lives in Prague, wouldn’t that make *him* the foreign bride?

Pecunium
8 years ago

Oh, Andy: I don’t think you know what you are asking to have rain down on your ego.

Girl guy interactions are different in different countries and in America the social situation is unhealthy. Do you guys disagree?

Yep, I disagree. I’ve been in Korea, Ukraine, Germany, France, Scotland, and Canada (the trip to Ecuador didn’t count. Too focused, and I don’t speak enough Spanish to really interact with the locals).

Also, my girlfriend has told me she thinks are American girls are loud, spoiled, and bossy. Is she an idiot MRA activist?

Insufficient data.

What I have found, is that you gals reputation is not just in tatters with lonely American men, but also with people the world over.

The world over? Really? You are in Praha, and from the state, and all of 22. With that amazing wealth of travel and experience you’ve learned that people the world over all think poorly of American women.

I’m not a misogynist.

At present the evidence indicates otherwise.

I think that men and women are different and if you actually use a little bit of your brain that’s obvious. So why pretend were not?

Who is pretending we are? Now, please explain the ways in which those differences manifest, and what that means for things like equal rights.

And that takes us to the end of the page.

So far what I see is an immature idjit, who tells me he’s in a Central European Country and that American women suck, but he’s not a misogynist and some woman in Praha thinks he’s cool and that she also thinks American women suck.

Evidence for the above is lacking for almost everything, which is why I say he’s an immature idjit.

Pecunium
8 years ago

Andy: I lived in America. I know what its like growing up as a male there. I was always into reading, politics, sports too. Life fucks people whether male or female. I think what you guys fail to see, is that both guys and girls can get fucked over in life and you generalize all guys as the same.

We see it all right. What we don’t see is that being male sets you up for being fucked over.

When did you move to Praha? What did you do for work in the States? What sort of schools were you in?

You’re 22, you are wet behind the ears; in general, and are (self-admittedly) lacking in a well-rounded understanding of being an adult male in the US.

I don’t know what point I’m trying to make.

We noticed.

I know what its like to be a lonely guy and be rejected and also to be accepted and be with a beautiful girl who loves to dress up sexy when we go out and be my best friend, talk about politics with, and shoot the shit with. I still got some pent up anger from not having quality relationships in the states.

Boo-fucking-hoo.

How old were you? In your teens I’ll bet. Guess what, when I was in High School none of the girls I was interested in were interested in me. I was “lonely and rejected”. It’s not because women are awful, and it’s sure as shit not because of feminism. It’s because at that age my interests weren’t the sorts of things that the young women I was in school with were interested in.

But you, that can’t have been it, nope, it was all because American women are loud, and obnoxious and losing status with the rest of the world, because they didn’t want poor little Andy.

Jesus Christ but your a thick one.

Look, I just think American women need to get a grip on reality. Life can be a lot harder than you guys realize.

Those two things don’t relate. The second… you have no clue what we realise, or not.

Trust me kid, I know more about how hard life can be than I hope you are ever close to comprehending. How many corpses have you seen? How many have you smelled? How many burnt bodies have you gotten up your nose? Does the whiff of burnt hair make you retch?

What are your night terrors, and do they ever come in the middle of the day?

Have you ever been without a home? Dependent on the kindness of friends for a place to sleep, and to bathe? Ever been shot at? Ever been told you had 48 hours to pack all your things and live someplace else?

Ever done it more than once?

Ever had people who were more than capable of beating the snot out of you hunting for you? Did you learn every back alley of the town you lived in? Were you able to get from home to school a different way; every day.

Did you do it for six months straight? Were you ten years old at the time?

Don’t whine to me about how fucking much I don’t know about how hard the God Damned world is.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Unimaginative — “Was it glossary troll? The Swedish (I think) person who was spamming the FAQs.”

He’s been gone for 2 weeks now, but I’m pretty sure he was Swedish — his blog’s in Swedish, he knows the language, and the laws, so idk if he was born there or not, but I’m pretty sure he identifies as Swedish.

And oh look, we have a new glossary troll…of course, this one is getting a simple “oh look, the NWO talking points!” (man bad, woman good; NWO, go read Animal Farm again please)

Pecunium — you forgot drunk, he’s an immature drunk idiot.

Veronica K. B. — “Or you can click his name and read his Twitter profile” — so I can *feels silly* — “…male; cis…” — there we have it, scrapemind takes male pronouns apparently

pecunium
pecunium
8 years ago

I hadn’t gotten to drunk, and what with Atkins and Stalin in the other thread I am not at my most compassionate.

Kakanian
Kakanian
8 years ago

>He wrote a post about how he once tried to kill his ex-girlfriend because she was raped and (he decided) her life was ruined. He was intending it to be a murder/suicide, but somehow they were rescued (can’t remember how). The point of this story was supposed to be about how this was a transformative experience for Hugo that was important to his recovery and oh look what a wonderful person he is now that he found God and yadda yadda.

Reminds me that General Butt Naked found God after a decade of eating human flesh and terrorizing Liberia. Now he’s acting like a Teleevangelist in front of the camera.

And another thing… how come that transfomative experience-bit is so terribly common in any type of US biographical fiction? It’s always somebody finding true love in somebody something and becoming a better person in the process. Be that god, Courtney Love’s Guitarrist or their child.

Wetherby
Wetherby
8 years ago

And another thing… how come that transfomative experience-bit is so terribly common in any type of US biographical fiction? It’s always somebody finding true love in somebody something and becoming a better person in the process. Be that god, Courtney Love’s Guitarrist or their child.

By contrast, if anyone tried to pull that stunt in Britain we’d just point and laugh.

Either that or compare them unfavourably with John Profumo, the disgraced Cabinet minister who devoted the last four decades of his life to charity, starting out by cleaning toilets and working his way up to fundraiser. Now that’s a transformative experience, and it didn’t involve any public breast-beating or claims of religious transcendence – just lots of very hard, low-profile work.

theyazata
8 years ago

I’ve always had the opposite view, myself. For me my feminism and atheism flow together and stem from me being a skeptic. Belief in anything without evidence is illogical. Belief that one gender is inferior to the other is illogical. I do not think I could be an adherent to one philosophy without the other. I guess that means I don’t exist either!

And I’ve never understood how any group could follow a religion that actively seeks to keep them down.

Hershele Ostropoler
8 years ago

@theyazata: Depending on the religion, the formal bureaucracy might oppress people when the tenets don’t particularly. The faith and the dogma and the institution might be different things.

eline
eline
8 years ago

Umm as a European reader I can confirm that there is a degree of scorn shown when discussing Americans sometimes, but this is applied to women and men equally, because it’s not about American people per se (a lot of us have American friends) but about certain traits we associate with America, mainly by generalising most Americans as what you know as “white trash” on that side of the pond. What it is, really, is cultural snobbery, but few are willing to admit that. I’m guilty of it at times, mainly when reading a bizarre news item about your rednecks doing something crazy, but I know we have our own part of the population in every EU country that behaves just the same way. And if that part of the population was given as much publicity as it is in America, you could easily make the same generalization about us Europeans.

So Andy, when your Czech girlfriend calls American women loud and obnoxious, she’s just being a generalising snob. You wanna hear what we here in Holland think of Czech farmer tourists who come to smoke pot and visit De Wallen, or even the brothels at the German border? Would you like us to put your girlfriend in with this loud and obnoxious group because she’s Czech?

The point is there are people who behave badly in every country, but those people are not a representative of their country as whole. I can’t believe I need to say this. But then again I’m saying it to an American man who lumped me, a non-American, in some great big non-American opinion mass. I get “exoticised” enough as it is as an immigrant, even though I’m also from an EU country. (And I know Andy didn’t refer to anyone in particular, and that is part of the problem. He spoke to a few Czech people and generalised Europeans.)

eline
eline
8 years ago

I wonder how did that Z end up there? I use the S-spelling. Ah well.

Mattie
Mattie
4 years ago

That was “rewriting history” in the same way that discovering the movement of the planets around the sun, or the actual shape of the Earth, or the fact that light can be both waves and particles, is “rewriting science.” Because learning more and coming to a different conclusion from one’s predecessors is “rewriting” and “revisionism” now.

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