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Spinning the Eivind Berge arrest: Reddit vs. The Spearhead

Berge: Too provocative for his own good?

The spinning of Norwegian Men’s Rights blogger Eivind Berge’s arrest for threatening police officers has begun.

Over on Reddit, the leading hangout for the Men’s Rights movement’s  “moderates,” most MRAs seem to want to have nothing to do with Berge’s extremism (which is good), to the extent that many of them are declaring him not an MRA at all (which is ridiculous).

Sorry, guys. Berge may literally be the world’s worst MRA, and one that most MRAs have been content to ignore, but he’s still an MRA. He’s described himself as such many times (e.g., here); he has many of the same views and obsessions as “mainstream” MRAs; and he’s even got a few outspoken MRA fans.  And while some Reddit Men’s Rightsers were distancing themselves from Berge in the wake of his arrest, others were respectfully discussing a blog post from Berge’s girlfriend Emma the Emo (who shares many of his views) taking aim at what she called “American pedophile hysteria.”

Over on the Spearhead, the more reactionary W.F. Price has a rather different spin on Berge, as encapsulated by the title of his blog post on the subject: “Eivind Berge Arrested for Provocative Rhetoric.”

Evidently, threatening to stab a police officer (and announcing the day on which you plan to do so) is merely a sort of rhetorical flourish.

It’s a strange and often incoherent post, in which Price seems to argue that Berge’s threats don’t count as real threats because … he made them publicly? Here, you make sense of it:

Eivind Berge has been posting some pretty provocative stuff for quite a while now, including his desire to kill police for enforcing misandric laws. I agree with his girlfriend that it was a bunch of hot air, but he got arrested for it anyway. Despite his support for Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year, I seriously doubt Eivind would have carried out any violent acts. Breivik, who really meant business, kept his plans to himself.

The truth is that people who manage to pull off spectacular terrorist attacks are almost always those who don’t say anything about them beforehand. Think Mohammed Atta vs. James Ujaama.

Yeah, it’s not like Osama bin Laden ever made threats about attacking the US. Or that abusers who threaten their exes ever actually harm them. Or any of a million other examples in which someone who issues a threat carries out said threat.

The lesson here is that if you want to be political, there’s a sort of tortoise/hare dynamic at work. The impetuous, fast hare tends to run out of steam (or run into trouble with the law) fairly quickly. The slow-and-steady tortoise, on the other hand, keeps trudging on and wins the race. …

[T]hreatening to kill people openly and loudly is essentially worthless.

Is Price really equating terrorists who plot their attacks secretly with the slow-and-steady tortoise who wins the race?

Who the hell knows. But he is clearly offering an apologia for making violent threats on the dubious grounds that those who threaten their enemies openly are somehow therefore not dangerous.

Later Price offers this completely clear cut and definitive repudiation of violence.*

We shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking that violent action will do us any good. Of course violence does work, but the power of the state is so overwhelming today that individual acts are almost certain to fail. Furthermore, those who are willing to unleash violence on others must be prepared to die themselves, and must lead by example. Somehow, I don’t think many of us have reached that point. It’s a long road to get there, and I hold out the hope that it will never go that far.

[T]he point is that anyone who condones violent action loudly and publicly, but doesn’t back it up, can’t be taken seriously.

In the comments, Eric complains that men who commit violence for putatively political reasons may suffer the indignity of being called bad names:

As we have all seen repeatedly, violence against men is socially and politically sanctioned violence. A man committing violence in defense of his rights is labelled a ‘terrorist’ or an ‘extremist’. The case of Thomas Ball is a perfect example. …

The feminist elites are bullies who are aware of their power and our inability to ‘push back’ in any way that will cause them deserved pain (at least for now). But like all bullies, they are also rabid egomaniacs and fear anyone who doesn’t bow slavishly to their power. The more men who are informed as to their true nature and who are taught to despise them, the weaker these bullies become because their fear of exposure and losing their power is a mania.

I guess Eric’s main beef is with the English language. I’m pretty sure that using violence to cause “deserved pain” in an attempt to intimidate your political enemies is basically the dictionary definition of “terrorism.”

Further down in the comments, Eric sets forth a curious little conspiracy theory involving, well, me. In one comment, he suggests that the attention I’ve given to the Berge arrest

illustrates that the anti-MRM forces are primed and ready for a ‘false flag’ or provocateur-instigated ‘incident’. … The feminist elites have noticably shifted from typical ridicule to painting the MRM as a dangerous extremist movement.”

In a followup comment, he elaborates on this peculiar logic:

Futrelle … does seem unusally worked up. …

I have the feeling that something ominous is in the wind.

This kind of language out of the Mangina League; the SPLC’s attention; the spate of troll and provocateur attacks and hacking on mens’ blogs; this crap going on in Scandanavia—there’s definately a pole-shift among our enemies and it stinks of orchestration.

I’m pretty sure I didn’t make up many years worth of threatening comments from Eivind “killing at least one cop is on my bucket list” Berge. So does this mean that Berge is some sort of deep-cover feminist operative? What does that make Paul “fucking your shit up gives me an erection” Elam?

*

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Posted on July 9, 2012, in antifeminism, antifeminst women, I'm totally being sarcastic, internal debate, irony alert, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles, reddit, terrorism, the spearhead, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 63 Comments.

  1. Wow, Price sounds awfully approving of Breivik. Sick.

  2. “Of course violence does work and i’d get away with it too if if it weren’t for that meddling state!”

    I think that’s what he meant to say.

  3. ShadetheDruid

    Futrelle … does seem unusally worked up. …

    I have the feeling that something ominous is in the wind.

    …Is he implying David has trapped gas?

  4. The MRM is really starting to rustle my jimmies. It makes me sad that I used to be one of them.

  5. Since the NDAA is a threat to all citizens in the US, why isn’t Obama in prison?

  6. Ah yes, the typical abuser “its totally a setup!” Get out of jail setup. Because , you know the women who shall not be named totally set those men up to make repeated graphic threats and then attempt to carry them through.

    And actually, many of the mass murders have manifestos or tell people what they are planning to do and when. And then they carried through on it. Why? Because everyone poo pooed what they were saying, it was just to monsterous to believe.

    Breivik had his little manifesto posted for quite some time. Several other mass murders (columbine etc) also told people parts of what they were planning.

  7. “Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year”
    Erm..that’s an, uh, interesting take on things he has right there.

  8. Cliff Pervocracy

    I’m amazed how many MRAs can say “Futrelle is making us look bad by pretending we advocate violence/rape/misogyny!” in the same damn breath as advocating those things themselves.

    The only thing that would make sense at this point is if W.F. Price is, in fact, David Futrelle.

  9. Cliff Pervocracy

    Since the NDAA is a threat to all citizens in the US, why isn’t Obama in prison?

    NWO, it would seriously make my afternoon to hear you explain what you think the NDAA even is.

    Go on, tell me…

  10. *Door breaks down, apartment is flooded with cops*
    Officer: You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say or do… (Yadda yadda).
    Me: Wait, wait! Why am I being arrested?
    Officer: We have no record of you ever threatening to kill a police officer. You are therefore under suspicion of plotting to kill a police officer.
    Me: Huh?
    Officer: He still hasn’t made any threats. Get him!

  11. MRAs on violence:

    “This is a peaceful movement AND I’LL KILL YOU IF YOU SAY OTHERWISE!!!”

  12. I love how murdering children is “decimat[ing] the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade”.

    I almost lost family that day, you fuckwit.

  13. @Cliff Pervocracy

    Overall, the signing of the NDAA leaves us with the impression that the current president has shown few significant differences from the Bush administration in terms of post-9/11 national security policy. The PATRIOT Act was renewed by Obama earlier this year, the Guantanamo Bay detention center remains open, and now the recently-signed NDAA has extended the powers of the military to include the detainment of American citizens indefinitely without trial.

    And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

    There are loads more things listed as to what could make someone a suspected terrorist, however, those three things alone make everyone a suspected terrorist. Silly girl.

  14. Despite his support for Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year, I seriously doubt Eivind would have carried out any violent acts.

    During the year and half or so that I’ve been dipping the occasional toe in the cesspool that is the Spearhead – thanks David – I’ve noticed that Price is getting progressively more unhinged in his opinions.

    That he can blandly describe the murder of 77 young people in a manner that implies at least tacit support for the idea gives me the creeps.

  15. Ruby Hypatia

    Christians try to deny Hitler was one of them also. And it’s really pathetic when they claim he was an Atheist.

  16. Oh look ruby’s still here for some reason

  17. Cliff Pervocracy

    Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

  18. Argenti Aertheri

    “Oh look ruby’s still here for some reason”

    And she’s going for the Godwin when, really, just calling it a No True Scotsman works much better.

    On topic, I know I said this on another thread, but a threat (to self or others) with a plan and timing? That’s going to be seriously looked at as an actual “shit you’re going to hurt someone” threat. (And most people don’t “blow hot air” about violence they don’t remotely support…)

  19. themisanthropicmuse

    I can’t believe that he actually claims that people who intend to kill others NEVER announce it beforehand, because we all know that people who plot out murders are always completely mentally stable and capable of rationally thinking about all possible outcomes and consequences if they get caught. What a tool.

  20. For a few days JtO had seized the title, but with this post WTF has wrestled it back. Price is now once again THE BIGGEST SHIT STAIN ON THE INTERNET! All hail Turd Price!

  21. @Myoo

    David looks a lot like an ex boyfriend of mine. I love guys with glasses :)

  22. Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

    …You realize that one’s actually a thing, right? Check out, f’rex, the Pope’s speech from his visit to the UK.

    I mean, it’s unrelated, but seriously now.

  23. @carswell

    I agree. Price is in rapid disintegration mode.

  24. *nonchalantly cleans glasses*

  25. Ruby Hypatia

    I do not believe all religion is evangelical Christianity, nor do I believe religious people are dumb and primitive. I do believe those who make assumptions about what I believe are making asses of themselves.

  26. @ Ruby Hypatia:

    In all fairness, Hitler did say somewhat contradictory things with regards to his religious beliefs. So I can at least see how someone might reasonably argue that Hitler wasn’t a Christian. I wouldn’t agree with that argument, but that doesn’t mean I think that the argument is entirely unreasonable either.

    Of course, I don’t particularly care either way. So what if Hitler was a Christian? It doesn’t really matter.

    Why do you feel the need to bring this up? This thread isn’t about silly arguments some Christians have made. It’s not really relevant to the issue at hand.

    Can you take your whining about Christians elsewhere? Or maybe just stop entirely? I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the atheist community/movement/whatever has had to do a lot of house cleaning recently regarding problematic attitudes towards gender. Anyone who believes that rape is justified in certain situations is not helping. You’re part of the problem here.

  27. thebewilderness

    This kind of language out of the Mangina League; the SPLC’s attention; the spate of troll and provocateur attacks and hacking on mens’ blogs; this crap going on in Scandanavia—there’s definately a pole-shift among our enemies and it stinks of orchestration.

    Clearly it is a conspiracy among these groups to notice that MRAs are promoting terrorism.
    Wait. What? Can it be that they have discovered that there is such a thing as too much attention?

  28. CassandraSays

    “who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year”

    Huh. I was not aware that the Knights Templar were an organization formed with the intention of fighting Marxism. The more you know, etc. Having grown up in the Middle East, I’m also rather confused as to how Marxism and Islam are interchangeable. Saudi didn’t seem like a Marxist country…

  29. Unimaginative

    Having grown up in the Middle East, I’m also rather confused as to how Marxism and Islam are interchangeable. Saudi didn’t seem like a Marxist country…

    That’s because your Feminist Goggles (TM) are blinding you to the TRUTH!

  30. CassandraSays

    Then again, Saudi does have nationalised healthcare, which I guess someone like Price probably thinks of as Marxism.

  31. Fun fact: one leading figure of Christianity was actually a Jew.

  32. …You realize that one’s actually a thing, right? Check out, f’rex, the Pope’s speech from his visit to the UK.

    I mean, it’s unrelated, but seriously now.

    Um, excuse me?

  33. Um, excuse me?

    The Pope basically said “Atheism is responsible for hitler”. As in, Hitler’s thinking was the direct result of atheism and the natural end result.

  34. I got stiffed on some freelancing work last year. Clearly part of the Futrelle conspiracy.

  35. My air conditioner took a short break a couple of weeks ago. Clearly part of the Futrelle conspiracy.

  36. NWO:

    And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

    As I usually ask when you attempt to claim something is prohibited or required by law, are these actual clauses in an actual statute or just something you feel to be true?

    (The first seems like a strained interpretation of something that might actually be in there, and to be fair, courts have interpreted things strainedly in the past. The others, while not actually impossible, are politically difficult at best and sound suspiciously like far-right/militia rumors of Obama’s secret agenda, not that NWO ever gets information from sources that aren’t NWO).

  37. Unimaginative

    And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.

    Hey, how about uttering threats against abortion doctors, and then actually killing a bunch of them, and verbally harassing everyone who goes into or out of an abortion clinic, and fire-bombing abortion clinics? Those are actual examples of terrorist activities that the government is actively ignoring. You paranoid freak.

  38. CassandraSays

    Question – how does the government know what’s in your pantry? I’m fairly certain that I have more than 7 days worth of everything except fresh produce (which wouldn’t keep that long) in my kitchen right now. Is Big Daddy going to come and arrest me for buying rice in bulk?

  39. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food.

    Well damn, the government must have its hands full, what with keeping track of all those Mormon terrorists.

  40. ruby is dumb and haughty? who would have guessed?

  41. I do believe those who make assumptions about what I believe are making asses of themselves.

    considering the tantrums about ‘strawmanning’ you throw when people have the temerity to repeat what you said and say ‘i disagree,’ i do not believe that you have the capacity to evaluate such things

  42. Crumbelievable

    …Anders Breivik, who decimated the youth wing of the Marxist/Islamist Norwegian left in a solo Knights Templar crusade last year.

    Well, that`s one way of saying, “He massacred dozens of innocent children”. Sure.

  43. I knew W. F. Prince was an unhinged creep, but holy hell… killing children is a “knight templar crusade?”

    This is the unmasked face of the Men’s rights movement, everybody.

    The MRM is really starting to rustle my jimmies. It makes me sad that I used to be one of them.

    Good job escaping the MRM kool-aid cult! I only wish there were more of you, especially with the not-so-subtle violent rhetoric everywhere.

  44. *W. “T” F. Price, excuse me.

  45. Cliff:

    Oh man, Ruby’s been beating the prison rape drum so hard for so long, I almost forgot she’s also a fucking condescending “lol magic sky man, all religion is Evangelical Christanity, all religious people are dumb primitives” Internet Atheist.

    She’s also an Internet Libertarian, in case you’ve forgotten her “poor people deserve to die” PSA.

    Also, while Hitler seemed to believe in (parts of) Christianity, and used a lot of Christian elements in his rhetoric, the Nazis also worked to severely limit the institutional power of the christian churches, which they saw as rivals, and many Nazis were very anti-clerical. (Thus, for instance, the number of Catholics who joined the Nazi Party after about the mid-20s is lower than their representation in the German population.)

    The Nazis were neither entirely pro-Christian or entirely anti-Christian, and it gets very complicated depending on what period you’re looking at, which Nazi you’re talking about, and how you define “Christian.”

    Just calling them “Christian” is as much of a half-truth as calling them “atheist”—and often used just as polemically, in my experience.

  46. Could the MRAs please explain why some feminist from back in the 70’s who said some fairly vague stuff about men needing to be removed from the population is SUCH A CLEAR AND PRESENT THREAT according to them, if “free speech” and “talking about violence” is actually an indication that there is NO THREAT MOVE ALONG?

    Or is this just another example of their bullshit doubletalk where it’s totally ok for men in established places of power and privilege to say whatever they want without worrying about any sort of actual Real Consequences, while also shouting “not fair” and acting like it’s the end of the world if someone without that power and privilege says something similar?

    It’s always a “Real Threat” if it topples your uncontested ability to do whatever the fuck you want, but it doesn’t make it any less of a real threat if you’re engaging in direct threats of bodily harm and murder to other people.

    Play by your own rules, jerks.

  47. PS: This does not make feminists or non-privileged persons totes ok to go around threatening murder and genocide, by the way. It’s just annoying as fuck to see the MRAs wringing their hands and going on about how they’re a peace movement when so many of them are overtly hateful and advocate/act out violence, and then they turn around and say that a couple of people who did or said problematic things in the name of feminism TOTALLY INVALIDATE ALL OF THE OTHER STUFF THAT MADE SHIT BETTER.

    *headdesk*

  48. Exactly what shit will be made better if MRAs get their way? All I can see is removal of rights of women and children and men being given supreme rule just for having been born with a penis. Sounds like backsliding to the “good old days” where things weren’t good for pretty much everyone but a select few.

  49. Crumbelievable

    - Fewer reproductive rights for women
    – Even greater struggles for rape victims to get justice
    – Public harassment will be taken even less seriously than it is now
    – According to some (like Factory, Paul Elam, Thomas Ball) possibly lots of bloodshed

    I can`t wait!

  50. For once I agree with what NWOSlave says. The FY2012 NDAA is a VERY bad thing. Essentially, a section of it gives the Executive Branch the power to have the US military indefinitely detain US citizens without charge or trial in a military prison if the government says “that person is a terrorist.” Congress passed it despite loud objections from politicians, leaders, and legal scholars from all over the ideological spectrum. For his part, POTUS had said that if NDAA passed both the House and the Senate with the indefinite detention provisions intact, he would veto. He did not veto. He signed the NDAA on New Year’s Eve with a statement about how very sad he was that he had to sign it.

    Thankfully, Federal Judge Katherine Forrest of the Southern District of New York ruled on May 16 that the indefinite detention provisions of the NDAA violate the 1st and 5th Amendment, and must be enjoined. The Obama Administration is, as expected, appealing the decision. You can read about the case here:

    http://www.salon.com/2012/05/16/federal_court_enjoins_ndaa/

    While it is important for all U.S. citizens to know and understand the implications of the NDAA (ie, major Unitary Executive Power consolidation in violation of the Constitution), what any of this has to do with a post about violent MRAs and Berge’s credible death threats against a police officer baffles me.

  51. Didn’t Emma the Emo comment on one of the posts here, or am I just severely confused?

  52. No, she’s commented here before not that much but definitely in at least a few threads.

  53. Argenti Aertheri

    Effie — did anyone actually argue that NDAA was a good thing though? Or just that NWO’s pulling this out of his ass — “And what makes a citizen a suspected terrorist? Speaking out against the govenrment. Stockpiling more than 7 days worth of food. Owning more than 1 gun.”

    NWO does sometimes manage to get one of his premises right, he then takes it to an absurd conclusion though. (I mean, just yesterday he was going on about how women wanting to go topless is just like showing his woody to little girls…for your own sake, you may not want to see that, but it starts here)

    NDAA is definitely creepy evil though (hey NWO, I just called a thing creepy, does that prove NDAA is male?)

  54. Effie – I actually totally agree about NDAA.

    I just think it’s funny that NWO presumably has no idea what it is (except a Bad Government Thing, presumably feminist) and brought it up at complete random.

  55. Argenti – I can’t say whether NWO’s opinion of what the government defines as a terrorist is correct or not, because the government refuses to ever clearly define it in court proceedings or ever answer questions about it. For instance, did you know that the PATRIOT Act has a classified interpretation? I wish NWO weren’t so paranoid and hateful, because, as you say, the basic premise of some things he says actually have merit (if awfully random like this one) and I would love to have an intelligent discussion about them. Sadly, I think we all know by now that is impossible.

    Cliff – Precisely, apparently the government’s definition of “terrorist” is a white male. Because FEMINISM! Or something.

    (This is the part where I lolsob at NWO’s refusal to consider that all those women’s clinic bombings, shootings, doctor and nurse and escort stalking, etc have never been prosecuted as terrorism cases by the government, despite typically being instigated, orchestrated, and performed by individuals and groups whose sole purpose is to terrorize women and doctors from procuring and performing legal medical procedures.)

  56. Argenti Aertheri

    Effie — yeah this time he’s not even wrong. My point was more “oh gods please don’t encourage him” than anything remotely pro-NDAA or PATRIOT act — at least back when I was getting called a terrorist for hating PATRIOT act there wasn’t any real threat to that nonsense.

    Technically though, yeah, one could claim that anything is terrorism under NDAA and be not even wrong; which is, of course, why it is full of dangerous fail.

  57. I agree with you too, Effie, on NDAA. But I’m pretty sure I know where NWO is getting his info from…

  58. Effie:

    I can’t say whether NWO’s opinion of what the government defines as a terrorist is correct or not, because the government refuses to ever clearly define it in court proceedings or ever answer questions about it.

    Then it’s not, because his claim is that there is a law out there saying if you speak out against the government, you are a terrorist. A law saying if you have a week’s worth of food, you are a terrorist. A law passed by Republican lawmakers saying that if you own more than one gun you’re a terrorist. So the opposite of what you said.

    I’m no more a fan of the NDAA than anyone else here, but it doesn’t say what he says it does. It actually makes me wonder if he’s even capable of being right about something.

  59. Argenti Aertheri

    “It actually makes me wonder if he’s even capable of being right about something.”

    I would hope he can manage to be right about the sort of things you don’t bother specifying while RP’ing — like whether the ceiling is up or not. Of course, he does think all women dress like it’s spring break (and youtube worthy spring break no less) — so I half wouldn’t be surprised if up is down…in fact, I think he claimed that feminists think that, so yeah…

    Effie — you may not know this, but NWO is highly prone to completely BS legal claims, and then refusing to cite them, Hershele’s waiting on a whole list of them, NWO has until the end of 2012 and continues to ignore the request for citation. (Hershele, it might be time to remind him, again, of what that list is)

  60. Let me see if I have this straight…

    Real threats to public order don’t make threats in public, so Berge isn’t much of a threat, and the impetuous threats get in trouble with the law before they manage to carry anything out, so Berge ought to have been ignored, because he made threats in public, and got arrested. Because he got in trouble with the law we therefore know he’s not a real threat and he ought not have gotten trouble with the law, since he can’t have been a slow and steady tortoise because he got caught which proves he’s not real threat and …

    My head hurts and I’m about to puke from all the spinning.

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