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Norwegian Men’s Rights Activist blogger Eivind Berge arrested for death threats against police [UPDATE 3]

Eivind Berge and police

Norwegian Men’s Rights Activist blogger Eivind Berge, known for his violent rhetoric and rape apologia, has been arrested for death threats against police.

Not too surprising, given that he once announced on his blog that “[k]illing at least one cop is on my bucket list.”

Here are some Google-translated details from a news account here:

The right-wing extremist and anti-feminist blogger Eivind Berge has been arrested for having encouraged and glorified the killing of policemen. The police have found both ammunition and textbooks in use of explosives at Berge.

The police regard the threats as an invitation to others to kill police officers, but also feared that he would commit the acts themselves shortly.

He was evidently arrested on Wednesday. According to this story — at least as far as I can tell from the obviously crude Google translation — he made a specific threat to kill a police officer this Saturday:

Berge also writes about how he was planning to attack a policeman with a knife on a Saturday evening:

“Then I used the trial to come forward as a good example for men, and I considered it to be worth 21 years in prison for premeditated murder.”

According to this account, Berge is being held for two weeks. He claims innocence.

Berge, as readers of this blog may well already know, is a fan of right-wing terrorist and mass murderer Anders Brevik. On his blog, he’s also argued (among other things) that “Rape is Equality.”

He’s glorified the murder of police on his blog numerous times.

Some examples, taken from the second news account:

“… attack on the police is something 100% in harmony with everything I stand for.”

“I maintain that police murder is both ethically and tactically correct.”

Some other examples, direct from his blog (each paragraph is from a separate post; click on the quote for the source):

I viscerally despise cops and wish them the worst. Killing at least one cop is on my bucket list.

If ever a victim of psychiatry, here is what I would do. I would first attempt to kill the cops or whoever tried to apprehend me. Failing that, I would feign docility in order to get out as soon as possible and then kill a representative of the industry as revenge. … killing cops is also very much a men’s issue. Every pig killed is also a blow against feminism, so men should be doubly elated whenever an officer goes down in the line of encroaching on our cognitive liberty.

[I]f you are a victim of psychiatry, it is probably in your best interest (as well as a publicly beneficial act of activism) to kill a guard or cop in order to get a fair public trial and possibly escape treatment before it ruins your health completely.

Rather than cowering in fear of the police, I assumed a warrior mentality and started hating law enforcement. I really, really wanted to hurt those responsible for enacting and enforcing feminist sex law.

This was his reaction to a news story about a police officer being killed:

Good news for men is rare in this hateful feminist utopia that is Norway, but today is a joyous day! Today I feel schadenfreude in my heart along with all the hate that feminism and resultant mate deprivation have instilled in me. One blue thug less on the streets.

From another post on the same subject:

The swine Olav Kildal died while trying to enforce our lack of cognitive liberty. This was a defensive, much deserved killing that cheered me up.

Here he threatens a female prosecutor:

To feminist prosecutor Anne Cathrine Aga I have the following message: The Men’s Movement is watching you, bitch, and we are seething with hatred against you personally and the police state you represent. Actions have consequences. Trials are still (mostly) public and they sink into our collective minds, where they form the basis of future activism. Hate breeds hate — that is a fact of life too smugly ignored by feminists. …

2011 is the year Norwegian men as a group emerged out of the blogosphere and into the battlefield. This in turn has led to a breakthrough for MRAs such as my good self in the public discourse, probably for the simple reason that the powers that be now realize ignoring us has deadly consequences. Men are angry now, and we have proven that we are deathly serious about resisting feminism. So the feminist prosecutors referred to above ought to wipe that smug look off their faces before it is too late. Clearly seventy-seven body bags wasn’t enough, but I am fairly confident that you will be sorry one day.

Aside from the explicit threats of violence, the violent and threatening rhetoric here is not unlike much of the rhetoric we see regularly on A Voice for Men and other MRA sites. AVFM founder Paul Elam, for example, told one feminist that:

I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection. … We are coming for you.

The blogger Emma the Emo, Berge’s girlfriend, has posted comments here in the past defending him. The news account quotes someone identified as Nataliya Kochergova, described as his girlfriend; I assume this is “Emma,” because what she told the media is similar to what she posted here. She of course denies that he planned any real violence. According to the article, she said:

There are not really threats. He has never had plans to kill someone, he has said several times in his blog. When for example, he says that “the police killings are an effective way to prevent stupid laws,” it’s a factual description and not a threat. Even those who love the police agree with it.

Berge, for his part, has stated publicly that if he had not met Emma, he probably would have killed by now:

At the time I wrote my last blog post, I believed I would probably become Norway’s first modern violent activist in peacetime. Celibacy enforced by a feminist regime had driven me to the point where I saw no other option. I would target the pigs who enforce feminist law, knowing I could realistically at least kill one of them before I would be captured or killed myself. Thus revenge would be assured and if I lived, my reputation as a violent criminal would make me attractive to some women. But then in the nick of time this blog attracted a lovely girl commenting as “Emma.”

This is why I take violent rhetoric from MRAs very seriously.

Meanwhile, on this side of the Atlantic, MRAs glorify MRA “martyr” Thomas Ball, who killed himself on the steps of a New Hampshire courthouse last year in hopes that his death would inspire MRAs to literally burn down courthouses and police stations.

Ball’s manifesto is still up on A Voice for Men in its “activism” section, including these passages:

So boys, we need to start burning down police stations and courthouses. … This is too important to be using that touchy- feeling coaching that is so popular with business these days. You need to flatten them, like Wile E. Coyote. They need to be taught never to replace the rule of law. BURN-THEM-OUT!

Most of the police stations built in New England over the last 20 years are stone or brick. Fortunately, the roofs are still wood. The advantage of fire on the roof is that it is above the sprinklers

AVFM tastefully omitted Ball’s specific instructions on how to make Molotov cocktails, but left this in:

There will be some casualties in this war. Some killed, some wounded, some captured. Some of them will be theirs. Some of the casualties will be ours.

For many more examples of violent threatening rhetoric from MRAs, I urge you to go through some of my posts here and  here.

 

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Posted on July 7, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, misogyny, MRA, rape, rapey, reactionary bullshit, terrorism, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 1,600 Comments.

  1. captainbathrobe

    I have anonymized my identity so Futrelle cannot continue his threatening campaign against me.

    Have you considered reporting him to the SPLC?

  2. Oh, okay, it is Mikey. (probably; God knows with these guys)

    I have anonymized my identity so Futrelle cannot continue his threatening campaign against me.

    He was threatening to disagree with you. Oh noooooo.

    (Also, lol at “anonymized” for “sockpuppet.” And double lol at how sockpuppeting somehow protects you?)

    I know you want to spin this as “David Futrelle shut down my blog and put me in fear of my safety,” but all David did was make fun of your sockpuppeting and say you’re another stupid MRA. Stop punching yourself in the face and crying “David did it!”

  3. Oh, this fucking guy. So, David called you out for using a sock and you shut down your blog. And you didn’t mention being Vapole because…?

    Meh. I don’t really care.

    Again: Now you can tell us all about which men’s issues make the MRM “necessary” even in the face of child rape apologists like Tom Martin. And what the MRM is doing to address those issues. And how the activism of Martin and Berge advances the cause and addresses those issues effectively.

    And what you do, specifically, with the homeless that addresses men’s issues.

  4. David sure must be a scary guy to be able to make Mikey piss himself just by saying “this person has a blog and it sucks”.

  5. And that was the Friday Night Reveal!!!

    All those who guessed Varpole win a car!*

    Anyway, it’s weird how much this blog is like Scooby Doo. The new trolls have their masks ripped off, or rip themselves off, to reveal that they are old trolls.

    Varpole, I’m not sure what terror campaign you think I’ve got going here; all I did was point out that you sockpuppeted,

    Now that you’ve revealed that you’ve been sockpuppeting again, does that mean you’ve launched a threatening campaign against yourself?

    *I lied about the car thing,

  6. “*I lied about the car thing”

    See, that just proves that feminists and manginas can’t be trusted.

  7. Oh dear, I forgot that chump had a hate crush on me. Shine on, diamond of fail, shine on.

  8. Well, that does explain why he won’t go away. What else does he have to write about?

  9. In other news, this post has now made it into the top 5 most commented-upon MBz posts of all time. It’s #4.

    Thank you, Steelepole, for your incredible verbosity. And Tom Martin, for your continued horribleness. And eurosabra, for whatever it is that you do.

    Am I forgetting any important trolls here?

  10. Apparently what Eurosabra does is wander around all day asking everyone with a vagina who he sees to have sex with him, and keeping a detailed spreadsheet on the results to show to his buddies to prove that he has value as a human being.

    (Too mean?)

  11. (Too mean?)

    Nah.

  12. It was Varpole all along!

    What a loser.

    Cassandra, not mean enough given some of the shit he’s said.

  13. captainbathrobe

    Hey, don’t knock it. Steelepole has gotten far more responses here than he ever got on his blog.

    Seriously, am I going to have to pull this one out again?

  14. We could amuse ourselves by making up equally cheesy alternatives to “Steele”.

  15. Steele: But what the fuck do you do? Since I’m fairly sure you’re a privileged upper-middle class individual, my guess is jack fucking shit. You just like to bitch. Kind of like you all incorrectly claim the MRM does.

    Me… What’s it to ya? What do you do? You’re self-admittedly (if we take you at fave value) privileged.

    Male, in a graduate program (something manly, not humanities), with free time to attend literature lectures. White (strongly implied).

    That means you are, almost certainly, upper-middle class; maybe even moderately wealthy.

    So you’re standing in a glass house, at the base of an ivory tower, and you think tossing pebbles is going to discomfit us?

    You think it’s going to bother Rutee?

    That teacher, was righter than she knew.

  16. Hee hee! Steelepole! It’s like a porno supervillian name :)

  17. Hey, don’t knock it. Steelepole has gotten far more responses here than he ever got on his blog.</blockquote?

    He's doing very important activism.

  18. Steele: What structures disadvantage men then? What structures blah men then? Because blah not female-coded blah blah blah

    Not really interested in discussing this with you. You’ve clearly made your decision.

    You galloping-lackwit. Who are you trying to convince? If you had the analytic skill God gave a mollusc you’d be all over that. Why?

    Because there are people who aren’t commenters who read?

    Why do we argue with you? It’s not because we think you are suadable (we have a 1,200 comment thread proving that’s not possible). It’s because you make a tolerable cat’s paw for keeping our skills up and because you are obsessive enough on the topic (as Aktivarum was on his pet project) to make keeping the less informed be baffled by you.

    But you, you fail at even that. You cede the field, first to me (on Vietnam, and on the lack of actual celebrations of men being killed for being men), and now to Rutee on the subject of the nature of insult.

    Don’t worry about us my little chickadee, even if we are too dense, and set in our ways, to be convinced think of all the quietly lurking MRAs; or the fellows whom you manage to convince to come here from your self-aggrandising posts to r/mensrights. Don’t they need to see our lies refuted?

    It’s not that I want to encourage you. It’s that I want to make plain that even at the patheticly ineffectual level that you are defining as activism, you fail.

    The place you could stand up and be counted. That you could keep up the good fight until you wore us down… you quit. Not just that time, but now this time. It’s not as if the several dozen regulars here are all ganging up on you. You don’t get the attention a Meller, or an NWO, or a Ruby, get.

    You certainly aren’t getting what Brandon, got, nor Simon, nor even the level of active response of your hero, Toysoldier.

    And you aren’t getting much in the way of invective.

    But you can’t hack it. You can’t keep your nose to the grindstone. You are willing to let us set the terms of debate.

    That teacher was righter than she knew.

    I mean really, Not the MRM. The Movement was issued a rebuke, but not placed on their list. In other words, we were implicitly given the thumbs-up by the SPLC.

    So being rebuked means getting a thumbs up? That means you’ve been praising us for days, and hundreds f comments?

    I don’t think so.

    I was wrong, you aren’t Don Quixote. You’re Walter Mitty.

  19. Now that’s he’s admitted his sockpuppetry, I hope this is the last we see of him until his next pathetic incarnation.

  20. It’s because you make a tolerable cat’s paw for keeping our skills up

    You keep telling yourself this, buddy.

    In reality, you’re obsessive, for lack of a better word, “losers” who feel the need to hang around a vile hateblog hours a day, babbling about the same crap over and over again and patting each other on the back for doing so.

  21. Steele: What the fuck is this hot mess of nonsensensical gibbering folly?

    I thought my identity was common knowledge; I am Mikhael Varpole (although the defunct blog I mentioned was not AMBZ; that was a minor side project). I have anonymized my identity so Futrelle cannot continue his threatening campaign against me. Did I not already mention this?

    Which is it, are you publicly yourself, or anonymised?

    Make up your mind.

  22. captainbathrobe

    In reality, you’re obsessive, for lack of a better word, “losers” who feel the need to hang around a vile hateblog hours a day, babbling about the same crap over and over again and patting each other on the back for doing so.

    PROJECTION AND PARANOIA!

  23. In reality, you’re obsessive, for lack of a better word, “losers” who feel the need to hang around a vile hateblog hours a day, babbling about the same crap over and over again

    Steele said this! Steele said this!

    BWAhahahahahahahahaha!

  24. Steelepole, you’ve been here for a week jerking off in public, so don’t go calling us losers with no lives.

    Go fire up your sad ass blog. Admit it, you missed us.

  25. In reality, you’re obsessive, for lack of a better word, “losers” who feel the need to hang around a vile hateblog hours a day, babbling about the same crap over and over again and patting each other on the back for doing so.

    You do realize that you just spent hours upon hours and dozens of posts doing the exact same thing, right?

    I wonder how many men’s issues you could’ve worked on addressing with that time?

  26. captainbathrobe

    Think Steelepole just implicitly gave us the thumbs up.

  27. I “ceded the field” to Rutee because as I’ve said, there’s really no point in engaging her any longer. She’s got her opinions, and they are sure as heck not changing. It would be a hot time sink.

    I stand by what I’ve said. That is my position. There’s really nothing to expand upon.

    It’s because you make a tolerable cat’s paw for keeping our skills up

    And by the way, what “skills” are you talking about? You repeat the same tired old talking points in your echo chamber month after month. There’s no disagreement because you’re all semi-extreme feminists with basically the same opinions on everything.

    And again, Pecunium, I’m done with you. You’re a pretentious, disingenuous jackass. You’ve proven that in spades over at AMBZ, so I don’t know why I bothered here.

  28. The whole thing makes his earlier “Ew, I wouldn’t deign to comment on Manboobz” bullshit even funnier. Hyp-o-crite.

  29. I don’t think someone who apparently hasn’t SLEPT in the last week gets to tell us we spend too much time here.

  30. And again, Pecunium, I’m done with you. You’re a pretentious, disingenuous jackass.

    Ha ha, yeah right! And you you even have a hint of the irony of this statement?

  31. captainbathrobe

    You repeat the same tired old talking points in your echo chamber month after month.

    We also post pictures of kitties.

    And again, Pecunium, I’m done with you.

    You keep using that phrase. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

    I don’t know why I bothered here.

    Because no one was paying attention to you over there?

  32. Steele: In reality, you’re obsessive, for lack of a better word, “losers” who feel the need to hang around a vile hateblog hours a day, babbling about the same crap over and over again and patting each other on the back for doing so.

    Who decided to make hundreds of comments in an attempt to convince us of his pet definition of misandry?

    Who decided he needed to create a blog to “reveal the hate” here?

    Who failed at both?

    Who made stupidly structured claims about what draft based war was the costliest, then backpedaled and goalpost shifted until he’d painted himself into a corner he couldn’t get out of and then proceeded to lie (or pretend, if you prefer) about having responded to it.

    We talk about all sorts of things, cats, anime, cooking, physics, sewing, fibre arts, clothing. We discuss history, fencing, woodworking, movies, whisk(e)y, guns. We share stories about places we’ve lived, or visited, and things we liked. We give each other tips, get together when we are in the same parts of the world. We engage in wordplay.

    And we mock misogyny, and misogynists.

    I don’t know what you do with the rest of your spare time, but all I’ve seen on the net is this sort of ranting; at which you are bad. Anti-manboobz is defunct. You went to r/mensrights to get a pat on the back (or to try and rally some support to continue a fight you were [and are still] losing), and they told you to stuff it.

    You posted here, under your own name, and you flounced out, saying you were done with us. So you came back under another name. You said you were done talking to me, but you keep replying.

    So who is the one “hanging around… [for] hours a day, babbling about the same crap, over and over”.

  33. How many failed flounces is Steelepole up to now?

  34. Manboobz is a hate blog, right?

    Can you point out any comments by the posters that are as hateful as the things that Tom Martin wrote? Can you provide a direct link to any statement as repulsive as saying that starving 10 year olds are whores who do not deserve sympathy?

    You’ve been here a week. Surely you have some evidence.

  35. captainbathrobe

    It’s like…using a firearm against a helpless aquatic creature trapped in some sort of wooden container, or something.

  36. I admit, I am interested in Boobzland’s opinion of Arthur Goldwag’s post here:

    https://arthurgoldwag.wordpress.com/2012/05/18/more-on-mens-rights-extremism/

    If you want to be taken seriously as a civil rights activist, don’t call white people “crackers” or “honkies.” Only racists take the New Black Panthers seriously, for example (they have earned their place on the SPLC listing of hate groups).

    Is Goldwag a racist? The SPLC?

  37. ahahaahahahha oh steelphole butthorn I thought you didn’t dare comment on manboobz! Why the change of heart?

  38. I admit, I am interested in Boobzland’s opinion of Arthur Goldwag’s post here:

    Tell you what, you speak directly to the questions I’ve asked regarding the activism of the MRM, its prominent activists like Berge and Martin, and what you specifically do to help men’s issues and I’ll be happy to provide my opinion on Goldwag’s post.

    And it’ll be really relevant because I like manboobz, I’m a feminist, and I’m Black.

    So you first.

  39. Low Carbon Steele: And again, Pecunium, I’m done with you. You’re a pretentious, disingenuous jackass. You’ve proven that in spades over at AMBZ, so I don’t know why I bothered here.

    In what… half a dozen comments? I must have really gotten up your nose.

    You tried there to do what you tried to do here… 1: pretend that I wasn’t replying to your actual statements, and 2: insist that I accept your underlying ideas as the basis for my arguments. Which is what you were/are trying to do with Misandry.

    You are no more honest here than you were in your own blog. But here you got response, which was more than you got at your blog.

    Why? Because you are a crappy writer. You can’t keep your ideas in one line of thought and your conclusions aren’t supported by your premises.

    In short, you are out of your depth. You, of course, don’t think so. You are convinced you are special, and it’s all the fault of women and feminists for keeping you down.

    Right. Nothing, but nothing, kept you from working on your writing. You could (if the disapproval of women was too much for your noble soul to bear) found a male teacher. You could have read; thus to absorb the craft of those who have gone before. One of the great things about the modern [post about 1570] is the wealth of written material, it persists. I even gave you a list of books you might want to read, but there are millions, in print; right now, and billions in libraries, and used bookstores, just waiting for you to read).

    But you choose to whine about how hard you’ve got it. You choose to pretend that the difficulties some men face are equal in weight to the problems women, as a class, labor under.

    So you’re delusional, as well as silly.

  40. I’m mad. I used to love a band called Steel Pole Bathtub, and now Steele/Pole is besmirching their hallowed name:

    (I’m actually hanging out with the friend who introduced me to Steel Pole Bathtub, and he is laughing hysterically at this thread.)

  41. Well screw you for not embedding!
    One more:

  42. captainbathrobe

    From the Goldwag article:

    Tory Sheperd witheringly reduces MREs to “wounded angry men” who gather on the Internet to “foment trouble.” Maybe if some of them–including so many of the movement’s self-described leaders–weren’t so quick to fling their shit at everyone who looks at them cross-eyed, people in general would take the rest of the MRA community more seriously.

    Why, one could argue that this is an implicit thumbs up! After all, he allows that people in general may, at some point in the future, take the MRA community more seriously. Of course, since very few people take their ideas seriously at present, that’s a pretty low bar. And since this is contingent on people like Paul Elam behaving like reasonable human beings, it seems a tad unlikely.

  43. Tell you what, you speak directly to the questions I’ve asked regarding the activism of the MRM, its prominent activists like Berge and Martin, and what you specifically do to help men’s issues and I’ll be happy to provide my opinion on Goldwag’s post.

    It puts a bad taste in my mouth to be using my charity and nonprofit work as a sort of bargaining chip, but then again that’s par for the course at Boobzland- that and Oppression Olympics. But- as I’ve said, I work with homeless people; since more men are homeless than women, I would consider this at least a somewhat gendered issue. I support the organization Just Detention:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Detention_International

    … financially, and I have also donated my time. Since men make up the majority of prisoners and the vast majority of rapes in prison, this is also a gendered issue. And as I’ve said, I’ve contributed my writing to the MRM blogosphere.

    The MRM as a network of individuals does much the same I do- they may also work on fathers’ behalf in the family courts. They may work with at-risk and/or depressed youth (again, mostly men). They may work with men and body image. This is actually something I’ve done as well, infrequently; when I was a child, I had severe body image issues and anorexia. There were, of course, no resources for me, as a male. The MRM works to change that. I could continue, but I’m tired of typing.

    You’re right, much of the MRM online is political talk and such. That’s generally what the internet is used for. But there’s a lot going on in the real world, as well.

    Oh, and…

    In short, you are out of your depth.

    Nah.

  44. I’ve contributed my writing to the MRM blogosphere.

    Well, way to torpedo the “movement” dude. Your writing is like a millstone around its neck.

  45. Low Carbon Steele: In short, you are out of your depth.

    Nah.

    Another reply to me.

    I wonder if the reason he tried so hard here (with me) is that I refused to play along over at AMB.

  46. captainbathrobe

    It puts a bad taste in my mouth to be using my charity and nonprofit work as a sort of bargaining chip, but then again that’s par for the course at Boobzland- that and Oppression Olympics.

    Oh, I see. Too good to talk about your supposed charity work with the likes of us, eh? Steelepole, I am mortally offended! That does it, I’m done with you! Done with you, I say!

  47. Steele does not appear to understand his role here. Dear sir – you are the subject of mockery, and you have failed to convince anyone of anything. This is not because people here are unwilling to listen to persuasive arguments – it’s because you are a terrible writer. Perhaps you should focus your efforts in terms of activism on areas in which you have some sort of skill, because you’re certainly not doing your movement any favors by writing about it so poorly.

  48. I support the organization Just Detention:

    So do I. What a coincidence. So, how do you feel about the fact that so few MRAs with blogs write about and/or link to Just Detention’s site? I also work with homeless shelters but most of the programs that I’ve worked with have been exclusively male and focused on the dual issues of homelessness and substance abuse.

    I also work directly with programs that focus on incarcerated juveniles. Young men for now, but I’m hoping that one of the organizations will expand its scope to include young women in the near future. In the next few years I’ll be working with other like minded people (men and women) to create a charter school based on the model provided by the Excellence Boys Charter School of Bedford Stuyvesant. I’m also an urban cub scout leader.

    You’re writing is, by your own admission, pretty subpar and not much of a contribution. But it’s good to to know that you support Just Detention.

    You’re right, much of the MRM online is political talk and such. That’s generally what the internet is used for. But there’s a lot going on in the real world, as well.

    What is it, do you think, that prevents the disparate and individual good actors of the MRM from organizing away from the Berges and Martins of your movement and committing to real and organized activism? I think it’s because you’re lazy and, on a gut level, consider the work of organizing beneath you. It can’t be because it’s too difficult.

    So, if you can just address the issue of prominent activists like Berge and Martin, I’ll be happy to offer my opinion on the Goldwag piece.

  49. This is not because people here are unwilling to listen to persuasive arguments – it’s because you are a terrible writer.

    Nah.

    Who are you again? I remember you vaguely as someone who keeps brainlessly pontificating on my alleged lack of writing skills, but I’m unclear as to exactly why I should give a rip.

  50. What is it, do you think, that prevents the disparate and individual good actors of the MRM from organizing away from the Berges and Martins of your movement and committing to real and organized activism? I think it’s because you’re lazy and, on a gut level, consider the work of organizing beneath you. It can’t be because it’s too difficult.

    I don’t see any evidence that they aren’t. It’s not on the MRM to create a big neon sign kicking out specific individuals. We will see how the Movement reacts to Martin’s child rape apologia; this information is recent.

  51. Give it up Steele, you are the one who followed pecunium here because he would not comment on your blog that very few people hung out on.

  52. Oh, so you’ve forgotten that you admitted yourself that your writing is poor and that it breaks your heart, and is your reason for believing so strongly in misandry? Memory loss is an unfortunate thing.

  53. The MRM as a network of individuals does much the same I do- they may also work on fathers’ behalf in the family courts. They may work with at-risk and/or depressed youth (again, mostly men). They may work with men and body image.

    How could anyone accuse the MRM of laziness when its members regularly engage in so much hypothetical activism?

  54. I don’t see any evidence that they aren’t. It’s not on the MRM to create a big neon sign kicking out specific individuals. We will see how the Movement reacts to Martin’s child rape apologia; this information is recent.

    I don’t see any evidence that they are. Both men have been lauded as activists by several mainstream MRM blogs and writers.

    I’m sorry, perhaps I’m not being specific enough. See, long before presenting himself as a child rape apologist, Martin was running all around the internet -and the real world for that matter- calling all women whores. And his failed lawsuit against the gender studies program notwithstanding, I can’t see how that helps the MRM organize or even begins to address legitimate men’s issues. And Berge was talking about how rape should be legal and wanting to kill police officers long before his recent arrest.

    So, again, how does this help the MRM? Why isn’t it the responsibility of the non-violent movement you describe to publicly disassociate itself from these activists?

    Again, why in this advanced age of communication can those individuals doing good work not get together and present a comprehensive platform and strategy?

  55. captainbathrobe

    How could anyone accuse the MRM of laziness when its members regularly engage in so much hypothetical activism?

    Apparently, the only real MRAs are the hypothetical ones.

  56. Either that or there is only one True Scotsman, and it’s Mikey. I wonder how, say, Tom feels about being told that he’s not really an MRA?

  57. Low Carbon Steele: We will see how the Movement reacts to Martin’s child rape apologia; this information is recent.

    So far, they are yawning, or saying Manboobz made it up.

    Who gives a fuck

    hey may also work on fathers’ behalf in the family courts. They may work with at-risk and/or depressed youth (again, mostly men). They may work with men and body image.

    They may. They may also condemn men like Tom Martin, but I’m not seeing a whole lot of “they do”.

  58. We will see how the Movement reacts to Martin’s child rape apologia; this information is recent.

    How about you just tell us about your reaction. You’re a part of the movement right? You’re a real MRM activist, correct?

  59. Hey, TheNatFantastic.Your grandmother sounds like a wonderful person, and a very strong and smart person. You sound like you’re very lucky to have known her. I’m sorry what I said hurt you.

    I just can’t stand seeing people saying that the USSR was *far* better than anyone, because as far as I’m concerned, they’re genocidal fuckheads. That’s not to say that other people can’t be *even bigger* genocidal fuckheads but I’d just like that disclaimer that ‘not as bad’ still means that people were sent to die in work camps in Siberia for reciting traditional songs.

    Here’s why I said that. In American and European politics during the cold war, and to some extent even now, there was a tendency for regimes which were not themselves far right to cozy up to the far right as a preventative against Communism (eg, US support for the Pinocht regime). The rhetoric that went along with this would frequently claim that the far right was the lesser of two evils, or was even beneficial. A lot of the time, people who believed that this was the right course of action, when reminded of the horrible shit the Nazis and other Fascists did, would say “Well, what about the USSR’s crimes?” as though the choice were automatically either Fascism or Stalin, or as though the actions of the USSR justified, either partially or all together, Fascism.

    That was what Eurosabra was doing, and I wanted to cut him off.

    And I do believe that the crimes of the USSR, vile as they were, were not quite as bad as the crimes of Nazi Germany, a regime which, in just twelve years, almost wiped out two entire ethnic groups (more than two, if you count some little Arab/Jewish groups in the Middle East). But when I say “not as bad,” I’m not trying to justify Stalinist genocide. “Not as bad” in no way needs to mean “good.”

    Again, I’m sorry.

  60. I “ceded the field” to Rutee because as I’ve said, there’s really no point in engaging her any longer. She’s got her opinions, and they are sure as heck not changing. It would be a hot time sink.

    You really don’t understand the purpose of an argument amongst strangers, particularly on the internet, do you?

    I stand by what I’ve said. That is my position. There’s really nothing to expand upon.

    Well, there’s the structures that harm men, for one. Good luck with that. A dude who derisively refers to ‘the humanities’ as if they’re unworthy of discussion is not going to do a good job in a discussion on what is, ultimately, under the purviews of ‘the humanities’. Shoot, do you have any idea how much you outright sacrifice as a discussion? As a topic to learn about for its own sake?

    You repeat the same tired old talking points in your echo chamber month after month.

    Now this is just a silly complaint; new ideas need to be preceded by new data, or at least a novel argument. As long you chumps are going to keep making the same stupid statements, we’re not going to need new counterarguments.

    And again, Pecunium, I’m done with you. You’re a pretentious, disingenuous jackass. You’ve proven that in spades over at AMBZ, so I don’t know why I bothered here.

    Because you’re pathetic enough to return to a place you flounced to, where you aren’t wanted, where you don’t even have the intestinal fortitude to try to change *anything*?

  61. People don’t say Soviet.crimes, they say Judaeo-Bolshevik. Had the West fought harder to keep Poland and CZ in the West, among other things, that identification would not have happened. They get you coming and going, which happened to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania– entire peoples blamed for all of the crimes of 2, sometimes 3 occupiers. (4 if PPA, Ukrainian nationalists included).

  62. The ZOB (Zionist Military Resistance) in Warsaw were left in the hands of Stalin, then blamed for his crimes. Partisans of the AK had a parallel problem (Polish Home Army) blamed as Nazi collaborators by the NKVD. Czech was actually liberated by US Army, which then withdrew. None of that needed to happen and nothing about opposing or decrying it means I support fascism. Esoterica, but esoterica VoIP knows. And I love ZOB as an acronym.

  63. Argenti Aertheri

    FYI, Eurosabra’s thing with calling everyone here ableist is because I said he may want to disclose mental illness before he’s seriously involved with someone (and he took that to mean on the first date or something). He’s also magically ignoring that that advice came framed in terms of “I am mentally ill and it’ll spare you pain”…and apparently all of you agreed or something?

    Steele/Varpole — “Not really interested in discussing this with you. You’ve clearly made your decision.” — Please go away then.

    Pecunium — “Which is it, are you publicly yourself, or anonymised?” — I’m assuming he’s using ToR, or a proxy. (And thinks David doesn’t still have his IP, or something)

  64. Also, which small Arab groups did the Nazis genocide? I know about the Holocaust in the Midle East/Caucasus/North Africa but did not realize it included non-Jewish Arabs.

  65. I am in favor of the liberal nationalists of postwar Eastern Europe, who were crushed by both Hitler (1939-45) and Stalin (1939-1956). Stalin died in ’53 but Hungary suffered anyway.

  66. I’m forgetting their name right now, but there was a small group of people who did not practice the Jewish religion, were classified as Aryans and spared, then later classified as Jews and killed. I don’t remember where I read it, and if you google “Nazi arab muslim jewish” you get trash, obviously.

  67. why is Eurosabra talking about WW2?

  68. Because he’s a fascist and now we’ve gotten on a sub-topic. It was in reference to my comment to TheNatFantastic.

  69. People don’t say Soviet.crimes, they say Judaeo-Bolshevik.

    Until you slimed out of the woodwork, I’d never heard anyone use that term.

    Anyone outside Stormfront, anyway.

    So you’re not just a creep but an out-and-out Fascist creep?

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