Men’s Rights Redditors angry that reality is reality. (Murder statistics edition.)

Over on the Men’s Rights subreddit, mgriff2k4 is angry that the picture to the right here showed up on his computer screen. Sorry, make that fucking angry. “Did this really just fucking pop up on my news feed?” he asks in the title of his post, adding in a comment: “sorry about the word “fucking” but im really pissed off about this.”

Why is he angry? Presumably, he assumes the statistic is untrue, and that it unfairly paints men as evil murderers.

Luckily, in this Age of the Internet it is trivially easy to find out whether statistics like this are true. It involves something called “Google.” mgriff2k4 did not bother to avail himself of this easy-to-use research tool.

But I did. In less than 5 minutes, I confirmed that this factoid is indeed true, at least according to the most recent figures on gender and homicide found on the Department of Justice’s web site, drawn from FBI data covering the years from 1976-2005. According to the FBI, 30% of women who are murdered are murdered by “intimates.” Roughly 20% are killed by husbands or ex-husbands; 10% by boyfriends or girlfriends. (In the overwhelming majority of cases the murderers are boyfriends, not girlfriends; men are ten times more likely to commit murder than women.)

While four times as many men are murdered than women, only 5% of murdered men are killed by “intimates.” Men kill women more than twice as often as women kill men. Women suffer far more serious injuries from domestic violence than men do; so it is not altogether unexpected that they are also far more likely to be murdered by intimates.

If you want to see what this means on a human level, I suggest you take a look at the excellent if depressing web site Domestic Violence Crime Watch, which links to stories in which men are the perpetrators, and in which men are the victims. There are far more of those in the former category than in the latter.

I should note that (as of this writing) one commenter in the thread also found his way to the DOJ site, and noted that men were more likely to be killed by strangers or acquaintances. But he didn’t bother to tell mkgriff2k4 that the sign in the picture was in fact accurate.

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Posted on June 29, 2012, in antifeminism, domestic violence, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, reddit, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. 668 Comments.

  1. Unimaginative

    Tried to find “hatred by law” as it relates to child custody. What I found (at http://family.findlaw.com/child-custody/child-custody-basics.html ) was:

    Custody Decisions: Factors to Consider
    In deciding who will have custody, the courts consider various factors. The overriding consideration is always the child’s best interests, although that can be hard to determine. Often, the main factor is which parent has been the child’s “primary caretaker” (more on this below). If the children are old enough, the courts will take their preference into account in making a custody decision.

    Although the “best interest” standard does vary from state to state, some factors are common in the best interest analysis used by the individual states, including:

    Wishes of the child (if old enough to capably express a reasonable preference);
    Mental and physical health of the parents;
    Religion and/or cultural considerations;
    Need for continuation of stable home environment;
    Support and opportunity for interaction with members of extended family of either parent;
    Interaction and interrelationship with other members of household;
    Adjustment to school and community;
    Age and sex of child;
    Parental use of excessive discipline or emotional abuse; and
    Evidence of parental drug, alcohol or sex abuse.
    Determining “Primary Caretaker” of the Child

    In addition to the above factors, some states’ family courts allow a preference for the parent who can demonstrate that he or she was a child’s primary caretaker during the course of the marriage. In custody cases, the “primary caretaker” factor became important as psychologists began to stress the importance of the bond between a child and his or her primary caretaker.

    This emotional bond is said to be important to the child’s successful passage through his or her developmental stages, and psychologists strongly encourage the continuation of the “primary caretaker”-child relationship after divorce, as being vital to the child’s psychological stability.

    When determining which parent has been the primary caretaker, courts focus on direct care-taking responsibilities, such as:

    Bathing, grooming, and dressing;
    Meal planning and preparation;
    Purchasing clothes and laundry responsibilities;
    Health care arrangements;
    Fostering participation in extracurricular activities; and
    Teaching of reading, writing, and math skills.

    Depending on the state where the custody determination is being made, other factors may be considered as important when determining primary caretaker status. Even such things as exposure to second-hand smoke and volunteerism in the child’s school have been considered in a primary caretaker analysis. While, in the past, the primary caretaker preference seemed just another way to award custody to mothers, as more and more men share parenting responsibilities, this preference does not necessarily favor mothers. When it is apparent that both parents have equally shared parenting responsibilities, courts once again will fall back on the “best interest” standard in determining custody.

    All of which appears to indicate that the courts are less interested in enslaving men and more interested in ensuring that children get the most stable, supportive environment possible from the time their parents split up to the time they’re on their own.

    How is it you think that men have “no choice” about working dirty, dangerous jobs? Child support payments (in Canada, anyway) are based on what the payer makes. So if you’re making $30,000 per year as a daycare provider, you’d pay between $220 and $280 per month for one child, depending on which province or territory you live in.

    And if you were working as a daycare provider, you could probably make a good case for being the better choice for custodial parent.

  2. @Kendra, the bionic mommy
    “In another thread, you said it was an easy vacation to cook, clean, and take care of small children. Why don’t you become a maid or nanny so you can do what you enjoy? I know the pay is terrible and there is no prestige, but it sounds like your current job makes you so miserable, why not do something different?”

    It can’t be low paying, according to the ladettes, the labor of houskeeping, (cooking/cleaning,shopping, laundry), and childcare is worth some astronomical sum. Even if you minus the, “theoretical” cost of childcare, just cooking, cleaning, shopping and doing laundry for myself would seem to be worth about 75K a year. I can’t see how what I do in just my spare time could be worth that much.

    Even being monsterously generous to the point of laughable it takes no more than 2 hours a day, more like 1 but I feel generous. 2 hours a day times 365 days a year equals 730. 75,000/730=$102.73 an hour. Since I’m such a nice guy I’ll make it an even $100.00 an hour to cook, shop, clean and do your laundry.

    http://shine.yahoo.com/work-money/what-is-a-mothers-work-really-worth-456608.html

    All these “studies” seem to run along the same lines. My services are at your disposal. Child care will of course add on another 50K or so a year, plus room and board. Again, I’m feeling generous, with child care, an even 100K a year plus room and board. This offer won’t last forever. Don’t pass up this bargain.

  3. CassandraSays

    Slavey’s usual babble sounds even funnier if you’re British.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ladette

  4. @Unimaginative
    The State dictates who has the right of parenthood? And here I thought parenthood was an irrevocable right. How lovely that women in all their collective genius have handed over children to the corporation to decide what’s, “in the best interest of a child.”

  5. Argenti Aertheri

    In wtf world do you live in NWO that you can mange to do laundry, shop, cook, and clean, all in an hour? Do you live next to a grocery store or something? Or eat only take out that somehow doesn’t take a half hour to arrive? Drop your clothing off at the drycleaners, pick up take out and turn on the roomba?

    Or do you just have a really bad sense of time? (Hint here, even if you don’t count the 45+ min the machine is running on it’s own, doing your own laundry is at least half an hour, assuming you actually fold your clothing that is)

    And hello obvious fact, you don’t get paid for your services, period. You’d get a percent of Kendra’s income if you divorce. Which, if we’re using the first 4,850~ years of your “last 5,000 years” you can’t do anyways.

  6. And here I thought parenthood was an irrevocable right.

    Children, like adults, are people. No one has an irrevocable right to people.

  7. If parenthood is an irrevocable right, WHERE ARE MY CHILDREN? Can I call 911 and demand they supply some? How many do I have a right to? Can I exchange them for puppies if I’d rather have puppies? What is the exchange rate?

  8. NWO, you’re such a Constitution humper, where in there does it say that you have the right to have children?

  9. I believe the right to bear children is in Article Title IX.

  10. Or maybe it’s in section VAWA.

  11. I think I’ve spotted it! It’s in section ARGLEBARGLE

  12. Unimaginative

    And here I thought parenthood was an irrevocable right.

    No, bonehead, parenthood is a RESPONSIBILITY. A great big, heaping pile of many, many, many responsibilities. Which many people blow off, and then whine about their exes getting custody.

    And courts only intervene when the parents can’t come to an agreement between themselves. You know, when one parent or the other puts more effort into screwing over their ex, than into making sure their kid(s) have the best situation possible to grow up in.

    There are actually couples who split up, divide their assets, and manage to raise their children without either actually having to get a lawyer. Because they choose to act like responsible grown up parents instead of spoiled assbags.

  13. The point is, NWO, there are real-life jobs in housekeeping and childcare available. If you enjoy that type of work, and you hate your current job, why don’t you seek it out?

    I’m serious. You could be one of the housekeepers or childcare providers you envy!

    Housekeeping jobs: http://www.indeed.com/q-Housekeeping-jobs.html
    Childcare jobs: http://www.indeed.com/q-Childcare-jobs.html

    Go for it!

  14. John Anderson

    Fembot suggests that I see misnadry where there is none. I’m sensitive to this because it’s come up on GMP a few times. There has been discussion about word choices and the relevance of each statistic.

    I’ve been told that 30% and 5% have relevance because one is much larger than the other when you put them side by side. The issue is that THEY HAVE NO RELEVENCE TO EACH OTHER. They only have relevance when compared to total deaths as stated in the article so 30% and 70% has relevance and 5% and 95% has relevance. Trying to assign relevance to something that isn’t will be seen as misandry in the MRM.

    Now some feminists tried to get props by saying oh we realized there was a 3:2 ratio, but immediately lost it when they also asserted that this ratio has no meaning. That’s like saying I know the books are cooked, but how else am I going to show a profit. These numbers actually are relevant because it breaks down the killings within intimate relationships. Denial of relevant statistics will be seen as misandry in the MRM.
    The classic defense was what does it matter, men still kill women more often. That is true, but not at 6 times the rate which is implied by putting those statistics together. That was totally ironic because the point of the article was that you shouldn’t be angry at the truth. I have no problem with feminists using the 3:2 ratio or saying women are killed 50% more often than men by their intimate partners. They chose to say something else. That will be seen as misandry in the MRM.

    Now throw in the use of the word ONLY, which is used to highlight the smallness of a number minimizing it even further. This will be seen (rightly or wrongly) as misandry in the MRM. What would have happened if David took it out? Would it have changed the message or would 30% and 5% been able to stand in its own? When a disagreement could be resolved by retracting a word as I’ve suggested that David may have picked a poor word choice and feminists elect to instead defend the word choice, It will be seen as misandry in the MRM. It’s not the crime. It’s the cover up.

    Feminists will always assert that we have to tackle the big problems first. When some people are being abused or impacted much more severely than others, we need to direct our attention there. I haven’t actually looked at new comments made in the last three days or so, but since I mentioned that about 12 times as many men are killed outside of intimate partner relationships as women within them, it probably got some token comments voicing concern. When your level of sympathy and how you determine whether a problem is big or small is determined by the gender of the victim. It will be seen as misandry in the MRM especially when the problems that don’t merit the concern are consistently the problem with overwhelmingly male victimization.

    For those who want to retort yes but it’s men killing men, I already know that feminists don’t count male on male violence when they keep score in their gender war. I have no problem with that just don’t claim that you are equally (or at least significantly equally) concerned with the welfare of men and boys. That won’t be seen as misandry in much of the MRM simply dishonest.

  15. @Argenti Aertheri
    “Or do you just have a really bad sense of time? (Hint here, even if you don’t count the 45+ min the machine is running on it’s own, doing your own laundry is at least half an hour, assuming you actually fold your clothing that is)”

    Do you do laundry every day? No, once a week. So even for five people that’s 2.5 hours a week, althoug it really won’t be 5x the time it takes. Not so bad is it?

    Shopping is the same. If it takes 2 hours to shop for one person for the week, which it doesn’t, it doesn’t take 10 hours for five people. Instead of one pound of ground beef you get five pounds. Does it take 5x as long to pick up that prewrapped package? A bottle of ketchup will suffice for all 5 people.

    Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?

    When I vacuum the floor does it take 5x as long for five people? It takes the same amount of time, nothing has changed.

    The reason why no one pays the outrageous sum feminists have decreed domestic chores are worth is because they aren’t worth that much. The sums of money all these “studies” claim are a joke, they normally hover around 150K a year. I’ll do it for half that, 75K a year. Any takers? If I offer a brand new corrolla for $7,500.00 you’d junp at it. A 200K house for 100K you’d kill for. How about gas, $1.75 a gallon, you’d buy that. The insane value placed on what people do for themselves in their spare time is just that, insane.
    ——————-
    @cloudiah
    “If parenthood is an irrevocable right, WHERE ARE MY CHILDREN?”

    If you have a child the right is irrevocable. If you believe the State has the right to decide you’ve handed over that right to the State. You’re a good little soldier for the State. All hail the patriarchy.
    ——————-
    @Shaenon
    “The point is, NWO, there are real-life jobs in housekeeping and childcare available. If you enjoy that type of work, and you hate your current job, why don’t you seek it out?”

    I’m giving you a cut rate offer. My prices are far below what women have declared domestic chores are worth. Since I kinda know you, for you and your husband I’ll only charge 45K a year to cook, clean, shop and do your laundry.
    —————–
    @Unimaginative
    “No, bonehead, parenthood is a RESPONSIBILITY.”

    For the person who doesn’t get custody it’s a responsibility. For the person who get’s custody it’s a right.
    —————–
    @Dracula
    “Children, like adults, are people. No one has an irrevocable right to people.”

    Custody is ownership. If no one has an irrevocable right to their children, what’s all the hubub about child custody? If that’s the case, no one get’s custody.
    —————
    @hellkell
    “NWO, you’re such a Constitution humper, where in there does it say that you have the right to have children?”

    If no one has a right to their children, anyone can claim any child they wish. After all, no one has a right to their children.
    —————
    Stupid laws for stupid people who let the State think for them.

  16. captainbathrobe

    NWO would never get a job as a childcare worker because a) it pays for shit; and b) it requires a capacity for warmth, empathy, and compassion. He wouldn’t want it, and they wouldn’t want him. For the best, really.

  17. captainbathrobe

    Besides, NWO knows that parenthood is just a nonstop fun fest. After all, he’s babysat his nieces and nephews; therefore, he is an expert.

  18. NWO, you’re such a Constitution humper, where in there does it say that you have the right to have children?

    If NWO manages to impregnate the Constitution, I say that he has full rights to all children produced by that union.

  19. CassandraSays

    I love his confident declarative statements. Laundry is only done ONCE per week and it should only take 2.5 hours even if it’s for five people. (This strongly supports my “he shoves everything in at once even if that means overloading the machine” theory, and also suggests that his personal hygeine is probably not very good.) Shopping for food NEVER takes more than 2 hours a week, no matter where you live, how far from a store it is, or how many stores you have to go to. And so on. He just knows these things, because that’s what he does, and how could anyone else possibly be any different?

  20. Unimaginative

    Wow. The custodial parents have no responsibilities, only the non-custodial parents do. Wow. I’m not even going to comment further on that.

    You know, the state (representing society in general) intervenes and revokes access to children ALL THE TIME. And society in general wants them to, because IRRESPONSIBLE parents put their children in danger.

    When somebody’s raising kids in a meth lab, for instance, we rational, empathic people think that it’s a GOOD THING to have the children removed from that parent.

  21. Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?

    What? No, the size of the pot is not the only difference, unless you think making stew for more people just means adding more water. You have to at least chop up the meat, and probably peel the vegetables and chop those up too.
    If you’re making the same quantity of stew for several people as you would normally do for yourself, it will run out faster, meaning you have to cook more often. If you’re making a larger portion of stew to last longer you’ll have to prepare a lot more ingredients.
    Seriously, do you ever cook, nwoslave?

  22. ShadetheDruid

    Maybe Owly is Jesus and just makes the same amount of food feed more people.

  23. The sums of money all these “studies” claim are a joke, they normally hover around 150K a year. I’ll do it for half that, 75K a year. Any takers?

    But if we said “yes,” you couldn’t take us up on it, because then you’d lose your sense of moral superiority. You’d have to call yourself a lazy gold-digger.

    You’ve created a real Catch-22 here. You hate doing your job, yet you hate everyone who doesn’t have a comparable job. If your lot in life ever got better, wouldn’t you have to hate yourself for it?

  24. Custody is ownership. If no one has an irrevocable right to their children, what’s all the hubub about child custody? If that’s the case, no one get’s custody.

    But if the right to children is 100% irrevocable, then both parents have to get 100% full-time custody no matter what. That’s going to be rough if one of them wants to move out.

  25. thebionicmommy

    NWO, your time estimates are way off base. Okay, it takes exactly one hour to fix a lasagna from scratch, and I’m not going to count the time it takes to bake it. It takes about ten minutes to chop up lettuce for a side salad. It takes about ten minutes to brew and then add sugar to make iced tea. Add another five minutes to make some instant pudding for dessert. After dinner, it takes about fifteen minutes to do the dishes. Feeding a family one home cooked meal can take almost two hours from start to finish, not including baking time. That’s just one meal.

    How the heck are you able to buy groceries, fix three meals and two snacks, do a load of laundry, wash all the dishes, sweep the floors, mop the kids’ messes, and clean the bathroom all in an hour? Oh yeah, and you can do all this while taking care of babies and small children, so you also have to change diapers, breastfeed (or make bottles), and entertain older children. Even if you have an electric dryer instead of clothesline, a dishwasher instead of a sink, and a Roomba, it’s still not possible. You couldn’t even do all that if you had pizza delivery for all three meals in the day.

    Let’s get real here. You like to say how easy it is to clean a house and take care of children, because you consider it “woman’s work”. If you really thought that scrubbing toilets and chasing toddlers around was easy and fun, you would find a job doing that. You know good and well that daycares pay their workers minimum wage with no health insurance, paid maternity leave, or retirement plans. If you become a nanny, you would be lucky to get room and board along with minimum wage.

    Yes, the work of raising children and housekeeping is incredibly valuable, so those estimates of being worth $100,000 a year are accurate. The reality is that nobody wants to pay living wages to either stay at home parents, daycare workers, or nannies, and the US society undervalues the importance of affordable, high quality child care and early childhood education. So people are forced to either live around the poverty line on one income, find a family member to raise their children for them, or be lucky enough to have a job that pays as much or more than daycare costs. Parents can’t afford to stay home with their children, and they can’t afford to work outside the home,

    You of course care nothing about the issues facing parents or children. You just want to bash stay at home moms. I don’t know if you give a free pass to stay at home dads or not.

    Oh, here are some more accurate numbers about the amount of time it takes to raise children and manage a household.

    Based on 2005 data, which have been compared to those from national time diaries, the research shows women, of all ages with no children, on average do 10 hours of housework a week before marriage and 17 hours of housework a week after marriage. Men of all ages with no children, on the other hand, do eight hours before marriage and seven hours afterwards.

    “The situation gets worse for women when they have children,” says Stafford.

    Married women with more than three kids recorded an average of about 28 hours of housework a week, while married men with more than three kids logged only about 10 hours of housework a week.

    from National Science Foundation Discoveries

    The average family with children does about 38 hours of chores a week, which doesn’t include outdoor chores like gardening and mowing. How can NWO run a household in 1/5 of the time?

  26. NWO, why don’t you work in a daycare?

  27. Unimaginative

    Also, playing with your kids, helping them with homework, and running them around to various activities takes no time at all.

  28. Argenti Aertheri

    bionic mommy beat me to it with actual data, but I have a couple anecdotes for NWO.

    “If it takes 2 hours to shop for one person for the week, which it doesn’t…”

    So you live next to a grocery store? I have to take the bus, which means going more often (because I can only buy what I can carry back) and 30~45 min on the bus/waiting for the bus. That works out to nearly 2 hours. My aunt in upstate NY? Nearest grocery store is a solid hour drive away, it takes her more like 3 hours. Where I to forget an onion, or something, that’d be a 3 mile walk, which, since I prefer not to go out for a job just to pick up an onion, is nearly an hour.

    “Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?”

    …wow…as was said already, do you? Do you have an concept how much longer it takes to, say, chop the broccoli for a meal for 4, versus for 1? Hint, about 4 times as long. Should I find a vegetable with the magic power to allow for cutting any amount in the same amount of time, trust me, I’ll patent that shit.

    “When I vacuum the floor does it take 5x as long for five people? It takes the same amount of time, nothing has changed.”

    duuude…ever cleaned up after kids, repeatedly, solely your problem? They make really big messes. Ones most adults couldn’t manage to make if they tried. The amount of mud an adult, who wipes zir feet, tracks in, is nothing compared to what a kid can track in. This one is more like 8 times as much work than 4 times as much work.

    And laundry takes a lot long if your kid spit-up on your white shirt, those stains are fun to remove. This ignores the kids trying to play with the clothing your trying to fold and how they can be counter productive to getting anything done.

    As to whether I can cook, pop quiz, how do you activate yeast to make bread? (That broccoli above? Cream of Broccoli soup, from scratch, it was yummers)

  29. Argenti Aertheri

    John —

    John oh John, didn’t we go through why 3:2 is a meaningless number?

    “I’ve been told that 30% and 5% have relevance because one is much larger than the other when you put them side by side. The issue is that THEY HAVE NO RELEVENCE TO EACH OTHER. They only have relevance when compared to total deaths as stated in the article so 30% and 70% has relevance and 5% and 95% has relevance. Trying to assign relevance to something that isn’t will be seen as misandry in the MRM.”

    What does that even mean? Is making sense misandry too?

    “I have no problem with feminists using the 3:2 ratio or saying women are killed 50% more often than men by their intimate partners. They chose to say something else. That will be seen as misandry in the MRM.”

    Yeah something that’s actually true and not a byproduct of rounding errors, but truth is apparently misandry now.

    “For those who want to retort yes but it’s men killing men, I already know that feminists don’t count male on male violence when they keep score in their gender war.”

    Anyone here have a score card? Can I have a copy?

    We aren’t “keeping score” — we’re feminists, as in, concerned about the rights of women — we aren’t going to bend over backwards to perpetually ensure we’re also talking about men. It’s goddamned tiresome when Every. Single. Thread. about women or women’s rights becomes a What About The Menz?! (side bar, see it? now click What About The Menz?! go there or back to the GMP or something).

    Apparently not centering men on everything is misandry? So if you’re being misogynistic, that’s the only way not to be misandristic? You’ve set up a nice no-win there.

    Had you simply asked David to remove the word only, and waited patiently, bearing in mind he is/was on vacation, you might’ve not only been taken seriously, but gotten your request fulfilled. But one poorly edited word on David’s part does not negate your horrible math, nor your rape apologia.

  30. Children are adorable. It is a survival strategy, because they also do things like this:

  31. CassandraSays

    Ugh. This is one of the many reasons I don’t have kids – the idea of having to clean all that up makes my uterus try to padlock itself shut.

  32. NWO: Cooking is the same. If I make a pot of stew the only difference is the size of the pot I use. I got loads of cookbooks princess. 20 servings of beef stew doesn’t take 20x as long a 1 serving. Do you even know how to cook?

    And you’ve never made stew for twenty. I’ve catered. Increasing the volume in a pot does increase the cooking time, and for somethings (stew among them) the increase is substantial, because part of what has to happen is for the liquid needed to cook the ingredients to then be reduced, and reduction is a function of surface ratio.

    The more liquid in the pot, the lower the ratio, the longer it takes to cook.

    Baking something like a lasagna is the same. It’s a sq/cube problem.

  33. Oh Jo, don’t you love me any more? Nary a word in reply to me this time? And you had all that time while I was at work yesterday, and taking care of houseguests today.

    I’m crushed.

  34. I’m giving you a cut rate offer. My prices are far below what women have declared domestic chores are worth. Since I kinda know you, for you and your husband I’ll only charge 45K a year to cook, clean, shop and do your laundry.

    I’ve already offered you the deal that real-life homemakers, the ones you envy so much, get: I will feed you and put a roof over your head for as long as you continue to please me. It’s like a full-time vacation, right? Message me and we’ll set it up.

    If you want to get paid for that type of work, follow the links I gave you and pursue a job as a housekeeper or childcare provider. I’m not even kidding here. If you hate your job, get a job you enjoy! Nobody’s forcing you to keep working as a milking-machine technician.

  35. I asked my husband – who is a professional chef running a catering company, and often cooks for over 300 people a day – if cooking a stew for one really does take no longer than cooking a stew for 20. He said that’s actually technically true, but Slavey’s not taking into consideration prep time, etc. Also my husband’s idea of a stew is something he’s left cooking very slowly for 24 hours or more and obviously that’s going to have the same result whether it’s for one person or 100 people. Trying to cook something quickly is a whole ‘nother story.

  36. Clearly, the number of people one cooks for changes nothing!

    That’s why restaurants who routinely cook for large numbers of people have kitchens just like we do at home.

    Oh, wait………………

  37. “Even being monsterously generous to the point of laughable it takes no more than 2 hours a day, more like 1 but I feel generous. 2 hours a day times 365 days a year equals 730. 75,000/730=$102.73 an hour. Since I’m such a nice guy I’ll make it an even $100.00 an hour to cook, shop, clean and do your laundry.”

    I have six children, oldest is 18 and youngest is 1. The older children can help but I have to clean more than once a day for 2 hours.

    Young children mess up all the time, I won’t even go into if my 1 year old takes his diaper off and pees and poops all over the place…

    “Do you do laundry every day? No, once a week. So even for five people that’s 2.5 hours a week, althoug it really won’t be 5x the time it takes. Not so bad is it?”

    ACtually I probably should do laundry every day but I have a full time job as my husbands work hours vary which makes me the bread winner.(and no unfourtunately he does not pick up the slack at home)

    I end up doing laundry at least every 2 or three days and when I do it is basically and all day event with me putting in and taking out loads every 45 minutes all day long.

    Young children have accidents so it is likely there will be 2 sometimes 3 changes of clothes a day at home or daycare and the daycare does not wash the clothes, they put them in a bag for me to bring home and wash.

    And then of course changes of clothes for me and the older kids if the little ones get food/pee/vomit/poop on us and we need to change=more clothes to wash.

    “Shopping is the same. If it takes 2 hours to shop for one person for the week, which it doesn’t, it doesn’t take 10 hours for five people. Instead of one pound of ground beef you get five pounds. Does it take 5x as long to pick up that prewrapped package? A bottle of ketchup will suffice for all 5 people.”

    Shopping can take 2 hours if, they have everything we need at the store 1 mile away from us(usually they don’t), then we have to go the walmart about 6 miles away and they usually have a hella long line so that’s usually 3 and a half hours but luckily we have a car now, we used to have to bus it.

    “When I vacuum the floor does it take 5x as long for five people? It takes the same amount of time, nothing has changed.”

    Those with children usually
    (if they can afford it) have a home with more rooms, each needing vacuuming.

    There are items you should not vacuum and thus before I vacuum I have to go across the floor picking up the items the little ones left on the floor that would kill the cheap vacuum that is all I can afford.

    And once again, this is not once a day and I’m done and the kids don’t mess up again, it is as many times as needed if a mess is made.

    I know it could be different for other families but this is just a little sample of what the life of a mom with many children.

    I hate that tO MRA’S my life is supposedly easy or that as a black woman/mother I don’t exist or that there are not many mothers that work full time in and outside the home.

  38. Is NWO still in here trying to tell people who know better that cooking, and cleaning, and housework for a family takes no longer than it does for a pathetic, lonely, middle-aged bachelor without kith or kin, free from interruption, and with -I’m guess- little variety and low standards?

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