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antifeminism MRA nice guys whaaaaa?

He blogs … just like a woman

This just in: I am a woman! Again. At least according to a blogger calling herself miliefisathand, who recently wrote a post about that “are nice guys sociopaths?” post I wrote a while ago.

Her evidence? When writing her response to me, she repeatedly found herself referring to me using female pronouns — so therefore I must actually be a woman.

Yes, that’s actually her argument:

While editing my article I lost count of the number of times I had to change “her” or “she” to “him” and “he”. I don’t normally make gender pronoun errors so I have a deep suspicion that the author is a woman impersonating a man. I’m spiritually sensitive to such things.

Hate to break it to you, but your guy-dar is way off. Protip: I post under my real name, and if you google that name, you will find ample evidence that I am, in fact, a real, living dude.

In the case of MRA dudes who misgender me as a woman, it’s clearly the result of their misogyny. In the case of miliefisathand, a self-described Smartassed Burmese Transwoman, I don’t quite understand what exactly is going on.

She also misses the point of my post, and the comments from regulars here that offered some pretty sensible criticisms of what I wrote, but at this point it’s not exactly a shock to see a Man Boobz critic arguing against things I didn’t say rather than things I did say.

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ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

Funny story: I’m pretty sure if I didn’t know of you from before the name-change, my imagine-people-as-their-avatar-or-name sense would have me imagining you as Cliff Richard. Whether that’s a good thing or a bad thing, I don’t know. O.O

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

My boyfriend calls me Cliff Clavin, so… could be worse.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

As long as we’re making wild, unfounded, ridiculous assumptions about the blogmaster, I’m going to say that David’s a cat who’s finally mastered that dastardly keyboard. I mean, how else do you explain all the cat videos? (aside from the fact that, you know, they’re fun)

katz
8 years ago

If he were a cat, he would type in CATS LOCK. Anyway, my kitty does.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Cliff: Which is why it’s useful for me to post my “shit fuck damn” response to make it clear which kind of fail this is, so you don’t think I’m a Bad Person. 😉

(‘S something my brain doesn’t seem to be very good at, so I basically have a routine of kicking myself in the head until I get it right- same with pronouns.)

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
8 years ago

I think its a poe trying to make fun of feminist or one of those mras which pretend to be feminists in order to gain the trust of them and get personal info to out them in real life. Pretty sad.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Or it could be someone sensible being silly and failing slightly- is that what Cliff suggested?

Kyrie
Kyrie
8 years ago

Happy CATS LOG day!

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

CATS LOG… what was the last thing I posted in CATS LOG…?

Ah yes. Probably…

WARPENIS

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

That’s totally why I thought that picture of the badass cat could have been one of David’s holiday snaps, we all know that he’s really a cat. 😛

Shadow
8 years ago

Wow, just wow.

Clinging to a male identity is kind of male privilege.

I think we’d all like to see Mr. Futrelle do more to check hir own privilege.

Here’s a hint: if someone identifies you as female, and you decide you identify as male, you’re oppressing your own feminine, and in essence oppressing ALL WOMEN, as though they didn’t exist.

It’s really just an advanced form of privilege denying that liberals like to use to keep women down while pretending to raise them up.

One day I hope Mr. Futrelle can recognize, women are human beings.

Aroo?

I’m pretty sure garvan’s shat all over threads here before

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Yeah, garvan’s an MRA troll. Been here before, but obviously quite forgettable. He thinks he’s satirizing other people. Protip for garvan: you have to actually understand something in order to satirize it effectively.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

This is one of the funniest threads I’ve read in a long time.
So here’s a video, and you might really get a kick out of the zen.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

My favorite garvanism occurred on another site, though:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/ashleymiller/2011/12/23/my-vagina-is-destroying-america-or-love-from-ron-paulians/

Third comment from the top.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

Garvan is a MGHOW. David wrote about him a long time ago in The feminist chair drag of doom

Here was his quote (I censored the c word in his rant)

She knew exactly how annoying it was, and did it for the attention.

When a woman’s looks no longer get attention, she’ll annoy the fuck out of everyone to get it.

Don’t believe me? … Look to the Wal-Mart whales that make a public display of their lack of child rearing skills by having their child cry as they yell and belittle their kid in front of every other customer to see. Look to every “strong” feminist woman who’s every action is to annoy the “patriarchy” by growing underarm hair, and yelling about how oppression is everywhere.

An old lonely woman with only cats as friends will scrape that chair across that floor because of her attention starved natured, and when everyone looks up with a grimace due to her actions, inside a little part of her will be validated. She feels like she almost exists in this world once more.

Let the lonely c*nts suffer in their own prison. Had they went through the efforts of learning how to be a decent person when they were younger, they’d actually have friends and people who’d want to spend time with them. Instead they had to be a worthless annoying c*nt.

The reality is this: No one wants to be friends with a bitter person who blames their problems on others …

He also made some ridiculous trolly statements on a Bjork thread.

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
8 years ago

Oh yeah, I remember the bjork thing.

ozymandias42
8 years ago

“comparing a nice guy to a sociopath is a slippery slope into comparing them to aspies”

…What?

Some people who are socially awkward have Asperger’s. (Some socially awkward people, like me, don’t.) It’s not an insult, any more than “you are excessively fond of pepperjack cheese!” is an insult. You shouldn’t *assume* people have Asperger’s.

Also I’m pretty sure that sociopath isn’t a thing anymore, I’m pretty sure the term is “diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.”

ozymandias42
8 years ago

I take offense if people gender me as female. I am merely amused if people gender me male (which has been happening more and more online lately, since I talk about Teh Menz more and my vagina less). Apparently this means I make a terrible Straw Feminist.

ostara321
ostara321
8 years ago

When I see “cat’s log” I think “Captain’s Log, stardate something something something”.

/nerd derail

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Yeah, garvan’s an MRA troll. Been here before, but obviously quite forgettable. He thinks he’s satirizing other people. Protip for garvan: you have to actually understand something in order to satirize it effectively.

Yeah, good satire is all about “ha, that sounds like something they would say!”

“Ha, that sounds like something that would baffle half of them and offend the other half!” is just a wee bit off the mark.

Also, LOLOLOLOL at the idea that mothers like getting attention by deliberately making their kids cry when they’re out shopping. That’s just… wow.

thebionicmommy
thebionicmommy
8 years ago

Also, LOLOLOLOL at the idea that mothers like getting attention by deliberately making their kids cry when they’re out shopping. That’s just… wow.

I know. I just love it when people glare at me when my kids cry in public. I love it so much, I end our trip out and go home until we can all have naps/snacks/whatever caused the tantrum. I almost wish people like garvan could spend a day taking care of small children so they’d know what it’s like, but I wouldn’t want small children to be subjected to that.

Cliff Pervocracy
8 years ago

Honestly, I’m kinda envious of someone who managed to go their whole life without learning what it’s like to try to get a kid to stop crying in public. I’m not a parent either but I’ve managed to figure that much out.

creativewritingstudent
creativewritingstudent
8 years ago

Wait, who said that it’s a slippery slope to comparing ‘sociopaths’, ‘nice guys’, and ‘aspies’? Can I avoid eye contact with them and be socially awkward in an angry manner? Maybe rant obsessively about SMT and MLP for a while, too?

(I was diagnosed with Asperger’s when I was 18. I don’t like it when people think of it as automatically bad, because its not. It’s a thing.It has bad bits and good bits.)

Also, I’m pretty sure that ‘lack of empathy’ isn’t apathy. Lack of empathy basically means you don’t care what your actions (or the actions of others, or random events) do to other people and that you don’t give a toss about hurting them… for example, someone who reduces a waitstaffer to tears because of a complaint about the food.

MorkaisChosen
MorkaisChosen
8 years ago

Hmm. Kneejerk reaction would be that lack of empathy would be not comprehending why your actions might upset people, but I’m actually thinking about that now and it doesn’t feel right. Overall I think you’re right, basically.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

The first thing I thought when I read this: Aerosmith’s “Dude (Looks Like a Lady)”, but with “looks” replaced with “blogs”.

I thought it was a Bob Dylan reference.

@Pecunium

Then again, she’s got no love for the nice guys she pretends to be defending.

MRA’s have this odd relationship with the Nice Guy thing. On one hand, it’s a feminist thing, and one where people talk about preferring “alphas”, I guess, but it seems to get (mis)used as a “haha, feminist dudes turn into manginas and don’t even get any bitches for it”, as with Paul Elam linking to a pretty standard feminist article on the Nice Guy phenomenon re:Jay Smooth about a week ago.

So, really:
It’s good, because it proves women hate men
BUT
It’s bad, because it means women like the wrong type of men
BUT
It’s good, because it means manginas are manginas, LOL
BUT
it’s bad because Women Having Opinions

Also, did you mean to paste the same thing twice at the end of that post? I can’t quite make out what you mean in that last bit. I could just be slow.

FWIW, I am not actually a judgemental-looking cassowary, but I am spiritually attuned to cassowaries everywhere and think a few other posters here might be, not naming any names.

lowquacks
lowquacks
8 years ago

Sorry, most of that didn’t make sense. lowquacks shouldn’t try to post before breakfast.

Also, I remember there was an internet gadget a while back that said whether you were writing more like man or woman. This isn’t an endorsement or any other kind of opinion or even saying that such a thing makes sense, and I can’t find the site; it just seemed vaguely relevant.

katz
8 years ago

I was thinking “Man! I blog like a woman.”

ShadetheDruid
ShadetheDruid
8 years ago

I hope “ruining song titles/lyrics to make them into something relevent to the topic” isn’t going to be a regular feature. 😛

swankivy
8 years ago

I took a test once that claimed to be able to tell whether you are a man or a woman based on your answers to the questions. Obviously it relies primarily on stereotypes, but it’s full of enough snark that it’s still funny.

http://community.sparknotes.com/gender/

Incidentally, it claimed I was a man.

cloudiah
8 years ago

Whenever I talk about David, I have to resist the urge to purr, roll in the grass, and generally trip out. This is because I am a cat and Futrelle is actually a sentient colony of animated catnip.

I am spiritually sensitive to such things.

Wait, you resist that urge? I don’t, and it may explain why they’re looking at me funny at work today.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

I know. I just love it when people glare at me when my kids cry in public.

As a non-parent, I find the people who do that so freaking annoying that I try to make a point of saying sympathetic things to parents of crying kids, because, geez, trying to deal with a wailing child is frustrating enough without idiots acting like you have some sort of secret kid-muting device that you’re just refusing to use for shits and giggles. (And it really makes me sad how often parents, especially moms, act absurdly grateful when I literally just do something like say, “Long day, huh? I hope you get to go home and get some sleep soon,” make stupid faces at their crying baby to make it laugh, or just reply when children say things to me instead of glaring at them in horror for daring to exist in my presence. Those things are so easy! Why do other people not do them by default? Sigh.)

/random rant

cloudiah
8 years ago

@swankivy, According to that test, I’m a man too!
[looks around nervously]
MISANDRY!!! It’s everywhere!!!

Pam
Pam
8 years ago

@swankivy, According to that test, I’m a man too!

As am I!

swankivy
8 years ago

If David takes the test and he tests as a woman, we’re going to have to concede this one to miliefisathand.

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

That test did actually correctly decide that I was a woman (with 8% certainty, to boot!). So I guess so far it’s only twice as unreliable as just guessing at random.

Discorda
Discorda
8 years ago

holy shit, I am also a appartently a man…28$ accuracey…some of those questions are just odd though, like which word do you like better? what does that have to do with anything

Noadi
Noadi
8 years ago

we feel 30% certain that you are… a man

I suppose that is another point for my boyfriend’s insistence that I’m really a teenage boy not a 30 year old woman.

katz
8 years ago

Sparknotes thinks I’m male (10% sure).

jumbofisch
jumbofisch
8 years ago

Is everyone getting male as a result? O_o

I got 14% male too.

Discorda
Discorda
8 years ago

Alright…the second time i took it said 32% certain….has anyone gotten female? The test is rigged!

Deoridhe
8 years ago

*delurks about empathy* Empathy is the ability to feel another’s pain. Neuroscience is actually finding out we have specific areas of our brain specialized in reflecting other people’s feelings (from birth, called mirror neurons) which activate often more strongly than when we feel a stimulus ourselves (still in studies – functional MRIs For The Win). There is also an area specialized in thinking solely about what other people know (learned throughout childhood, usually vaguely in place at around 4-5, only fully developed in teenage/adulthood). I have no doubt that as use of FMRIs to studies brains as they are used over time widens we’ll discover all kinds of interesting things about both how our brains work and how they can not work.

Sociopathy/Psychopathy/Antisocial disorders are an area of extreme murkiness in terms of experimental data (since anyone termed a sociopath is pre-existing that, no causal studies can be done comparing them and non-termed-sociopaths). In addition, the operational definitions for these disorders are pretty subjective and often open to a lot of bias.

The theory of Antisocial Personality Disorder that I know of is that this may be a subset of humans whose mirror neurons simply don’t work – so when they observe another person in distress, they feel nothing. The side effect of this would be to largely view other people as objects, not as subjects, because they are incapable of experiencing what others experience. Usually in tandem with this is blunted affect in general, which theoretically leads to more and more extreme behavior (setting fires, killing animals, etc…) in order to feel an emotional response. I know of no FMRI studies to see if any of these theories are actually true – it’s all based on observation and conjecture right now.

Sociopathy/Anti-social colloquially usually refers to someone who actively works against the society. That’s why it’s so difficult to define – because people have different opinions of what “society” is and should include and so draw their lines in different places. Even murder can often be “justified” in some societies where it isn’t in others (I know pedantically that makes it Not Murder, but we would consider dueling to be murder now whereas once it was a discouraged but valid way to solve disputes). In addition, there’s a lot of political and rhetorical weight to labeling people “sociopathic” as a way of discrediting them and it’s semi-commonly used against dissidents of all kinds of flavors. Then you have situations when the term is used more as an indication of consecutive-criminal-action which doesn’t respond to punishment; there was a “sociopath test” which had an 80% rate of predicting re-offending which seems to point more toward the colloquial use of sociopath rather than the clinical antisocial personality disorder (though the two are often conflated). I’ll leave the problem of the fate of the 20% false positive category as an exercise for the reader. 8/

There is growing evidence that certain environments effectively “create” criminal elements, though. I’m reminded of cases where the family of the parolee were in public housing, so they left jail to be homeless which meant they couldn’t get a job which often meant their choices were starving or re-offending (felons can’t get food stamps in most states). In other cases, a parolee needed to get something in the mail and return it, but he had no mailbox or means to send the letter back even if he could get it. Etc.. etc.. etc… the way we fail our fellow humans continues.

…and damn, sorry for the wall of text.

abeille
8 years ago

I got 16% male.

“Statistically speaking, you are a man—whether you know it or not.”

I like the “heaving chest” as a description of a female attribute, along with “silken hair” and “careful primping” and “delicate features.”

(Yes, the french bee is female. rawr.)

McDuff
McDuff
8 years ago

Millie says:

I use the word blog loosely because its more of a ragtag collection of baseless opinion. Thoughts that are rickety and hateful even by radical feminist’s standards…

Someone should put them out of their misery really.

I don’t see how you can complain of David’s hatefulness while actually wishing death upon people who are not really dangerous… Express one opinion or the other but not both.

However, I do agree with her that genuine psychopathy should not be conflated with mere insecurity, social anxiety and bitterness – though the first two traits certainly don’t predict the last one.

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

Commenting on previous comments, then I’ll take the sparknotes test (I totally am an androgynous ninja btw) — Is Garvan a poe or troll? Consensus says troll who isn’t very good at trolling?

miliefisathand —

“Another thing, The whole David’s-gender-thing is just me talking shit.
Saying I’m spiritually aware of such things is a component of my shit talk: The punchline to my joke if shit talking can be considered humorous; which it is.”

So wait, the joke is that David must be a woman, no because that’s wtf you said before you called in a joke, so the joke is that you find misgendering people funny? How is that a joke?

Ozy — “Also I’m pretty sure that sociopath isn’t a thing anymore, I’m pretty sure the term is “diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder.”” — I don’t think sociopathy was ever a psych diagnosis, it is/was, afaik, a legal term. Checking DSM-III now (I have a second hand copy for shits and giggles) — nope, not in there.

Polliwog — “…Those things are so easy! Why do other people not do them by default?” — idk, my default reaction to a crying child is to glare at anyone glaring at the child, and then smile at the child/parent. Because they really don’t have some magical off switch.

I’m apparently 4% woman…”50% more male than you — 7% like you — 43% more female than you” — that I think circle-square-circle-square-etc-square ends in a circle, not some random diamond shape makes me female I guess? Not, you know, logical? (2, 4, ? = argh 2 numbers do not a sequence make!)

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

<blockquoteI’m apparently 4% woman…”50% more male than you — 7% like you — 43% more female than you” — that I think circle-square-circle-square-etc-square ends in a circle, not some random diamond shape makes me female I guess? Not, you know, logical? (2, 4, ? = argh 2 numbers do not a sequence make!)

Yay, someone else is a woman! I was beginning to worry I was the only one here. :-p

(Also, the circle-square thing was making you choose whether you cared more about picking the right shape or the right color to continue the pattern. A lot of the questions were basically “choose which of two equally correct/incorrect answers you just LIKE more.”)

Polliwog
Polliwog
8 years ago

Dammit, blockquotes. *sigh*

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

It is 0% sure I am female.

O.o

Argenti Aertheri
Argenti Aertheri
8 years ago

“Also, the circle-square thing was making you choose whether you cared more about picking the right shape or the right color to continue the pattern.”

Well yes, but they should’ve thrown some other shapes in there then! (Even more hilariously, my fondness for circles is because they’re easier to draw, a compass is less work than measuring 4 sides.) — They did that better with the “2, 4, ?” as either 6 or 8 could be correct, while two shapes in a rainbow does not somehow suddenly make a random third shape correct. (Toss a star and triangle in there or something!)

Quackers — you managed to score perfectly androgynous? Congrats!

red_locker
8 years ago

…I am both scarred and eager to take that test.

Will be posting results after a word from my sponsor.

BlackBloc
BlackBloc
8 years ago

If they’re 14% sure you’re a man, doesn’t that mean they’d be about 3 times more likely to be right by flipping a coin? That’s some awesome testing.