A Voice for Men: Say no to homophobia! And then watch this hilarious video bashing lesbians!
Well, this is … interesting. So JohnTheOther has plopped out another rambling diatribe about evil feminists. This time he accuses them not only of “attacking male sexuality” but also (if I’m reading him correctly) of being a bunch of evil homophobes jealous that some men don’t want to have sex with women. You read this and tell me what you think he’s implying here:
Male sexuality is of course both demonized and treated as a form of predation, but also strictly limited to a narrow set of acceptable expressions. Outside of sexual identities which place men in positions to benefit women as sexual gate-keepers, masculine sexuality is generally condemned.
JTO would love to compare these alleged gay-man-hating feminists to the proudly gay-male-affirming Men’s Rights Movement. There’s just one problem: As even JTO has to force himself to admit, there are more than a few homophobic dudes lurking around in the Men’s Rights movement. As JTO acknowledges:
[T]here is a thread of opinion with a growing currency among some MRAs which rejects the legitimacy of men whose self identity and sexuality is gay or bisexual, or I suppose, transsexual.
JTO doesn’t like this, and says so:
[There] are men (and women) whose sexuality, either chosen or not, doesn’t conform to an acceptable standard – and some within the MRM would demonize them. Gentlemen and ladies – this is nothing short of stupid.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human? How is it that a man whose preference doesn’t include vagina becomes less of a man? Conversely, are we going to pretend the sexual preferences of our female colleagues matter in the context of partnership in the fight for the human rights of men and boys?
So: JohnTheOther has explicitly decided to speak up in favor of “the gay agenda.” (Yes, that’s the phrase he used.) And he’s even included lesbians in the deal – something allegedly pro-gay MRAs often have trouble doing – even though he sort of suggests at the end that he’s only willing to accept lesbians who are also MRAs.
But, hey, baby steps, right?
Well, John, if you really want to toss the homophobes out of the Men’s Rights movement, you’re going to have to start with A Voice for Men itself.
If you go to read JTO’s whole post over on AVFM, you’ll see a couple of “featured videos” in the sidebar from longtime AVFM friend and contributor Bernard Chapin. One of them bears the intriguing title “Feminist Professor Gloats Over Lesbian Chic.” The description, presumably written by AVFM head honcho Paul Elam, reads:
Bernard’s on a roll here with this one. And you will be rolling to [sic] as he delivers another thorough fisking, Inferno style.
Watch the video, here or there, or as much of it as you can stand. As you’ll see, it’s basically eight minutes of gratingly “humorous” lesbian bashing from good old Bern – whose preferred term for “lesbian,” incidentally, is “lesbobo.” (Evidently adding an extra “bo” to the old slur “lesbo” is hilarious.)
Chapin has produced more than 1200 videos; this is one of the two that AVFM has chosen to feature.
You want to stand up to homophobia, John? Take down that video. Apologize for hosting it. Apologize for featuring it. Demand that Chapin apologize for it — or kick him to the curb.
Meanwhile, AVFM is helping the guy behind the website Artistry Against Misandry publicize and raise money for an upcoming event; Elam himself says he’s already sent along a hundred dollars. Here are some examples of the sort of “artistry” that’s featured on the site:
This second graphic is not only homophobic but confused: Chaz Bono is a trans man, not a lesbian.
Speaking of transphobia, AAM also hosts several videos by “Creativebrother,” one of which is this not-hot transphobic mess:
John, I suggest you ask your boss at AVFM to get his money back from Artistry Against Misandry. Because, here’s the thing: if you actively support hate like this, people might just get the impression you’re a hate site.
EDITED TO ADD: In the comments, Elam proudly announces his own support of the “gay agenda” as well. Well, with 0.1% of it.
I don’t like most gay activists very much, and I oppose 99.9% of what passes as gay activism, but I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.
Forget gay marriage, forget bullying, forget AIDS: apparently the only real issue for gay men is evil feminist ladies calling them “fags” for not wanting to have sex with them.
Elam also has a most interesting explanation of homophobia, at least against gay men:
Gay men are bashed, when all is said and done, because they are not of utilitarian value to women, and because they are perceived as not having enough strength to be of utilitarian value to the elites.
Yeah, that’s probably it.
What about homophobia against lesbians? That’s easy: “lesbobos” are just naturally ugly and hilarious.
Posted on May 28, 2012, in a voice for men, antifeminism, artistry, homophobia, hypocrisy, johntheother, MGTOW, misandry, misogyny, MRA, paul elam, that's not funny!, transphobia, vaginas. Bookmark the permalink. 366 Comments.
why the fuck does he write like this. stylistically there is not a single element of this sentence that is not completely fucked.
JtO is blind to how men like him police other men’s sexuality far more than women. He’s still doing it in this post.
Stylistically Fucked should be the MRM’s motto.
So “that” is actually what hormones does (and age?) do to a person. And it doesn’t really matter if you find Chaz ugly now because:
– people don’t need your approval, you POS.
– I’m pretty sure Chaz like his body much more in picture 2 than 1.
– IIRC, Chaz used to identify as a lesbian. That makes the sentence extra
– I don’t think lesbians nor straight men care for the opinion of sexist, homophobic and transphobic men. Nobody should of course, but those are really not at-risk groups.
I like how he writes “or I suppose” when including transsexual men. I can picture him biting his lip and angrily punching the words out on his keyboard because he just can’t fully accept them as men, but he has to include them if he wants to be seen as inclusive.
I had to do a double-take when I saw that Chapin guy. He LOOKS exactly like one of my old teachers/Mom’s friend’s husband. Though it is clearly not him since he is happily married and has two granddaughters he adores/
Is Bernard Chapin wearing pants on his head while making his youtube fame pretending to be a woman? A cheap wig is like $20, go buy one…
Kyrie — “IIRC, Chaz used to identify as a lesbian. That makes the sentence extra” — extra wrong? you seem to have dropped a word
There’s his problem, he hasn’t yet realized they really aren’t decent human beings.
i love the tag line on that twilight poster ‘an extremely unrealistic fantasy for women’ vampires arent real? never would have guessed.
that’s the first time ive ever seen twilight criticized for giving bella too much agency
Thing is, as Cliff mentioned in another thread, Chaz has said some problematic thing about women, so he and JtO may have more in common than not.
ah, never mind that
Lovely set of misogyny, racism and “oh maybe I’ll be homophobic later” — but this is his definition of a decent human being?
*shudder* I made it through enough of “Girls Guys Girls” to know I apparently scare children as much as a rottweiler (this might be true, as I had a rottie once, sweetest dog ever, all she wanted was her ears rubbed, everyone loved her)
Yeah, they definitely need to oust that shit to claim not to have some serious transphobia // gender binary enforcement.
Paul Elam in the comments…
0.1% committed to gay rights! AVfM is so inclusive.
Is he mad that I pegged it with that West Side Highway wisecrack the other day? (Now he’s mad that I just talked about “pegging it”.)
Seriously, though I have encountered a certain personality amongst gay guys prone to misogyny, most of the gay men I know don’t seem very interested in sitting around obsessing over the evils of women/feminism. Does JohnTheOther identify as gay? What you’re describing, my feeling of it doesn’t seem like it’s written by anyone with familiarity with the LGBTQ community, more like someone attempting to pander to the gay men to rope them into the MRA movement.
At what point does who an individual finds sexually attractive diminish their value as a human?
I guess…when the MRA’s refer to straight men who don’t agree with their world views as “white knights”, “manginas”, etc.???
Argenti, thaks for the correction.
My ears bled listening to that “song”. It’s like he heard a poor man’s CL Smooth, and decided to do a shitty imitation of that
Wait, what? Men die driving kids to soccer games?
“…I don’t think it is very smart to forget that part of the reason they were led astray is because most “normal” men never gave them the dignity of being regarded as a man.”
His definition of gay is…what?! Implications that gay men aren’t normal, combined with blaming women? society? for “leading [them] astray”
“Seriously, though I have encountered a certain personality amongst gay guys prone to misogyny, most of the gay men I know don’t seem very interested in sitting around obsessing over the evils of women/feminism.”
I know the type you mean, and I’ve never found them particularly interested in women in any sense, they hold some fucked up views, but generally just shrug at the existence of women — certainly weren’t “led astray” by women, I’m pretty sure the misogynistic gay men would be even more offended by that than most gay men.
Kyrie — no problem, just glad I guessed correctly (or correct enough you aren’t correcting me)
For everyone else appalled by that “Girls Guys Girls” may I suggest Emilie Autumn’s substantially better Girls, Girls, Girls! That may also function as brain bleach, being pretty hilarious (or maybe that’s just my being a big EA fan)
There’s nothing wrong with masculine sexuality, gay or straight. I suppose that guy is referring to the idea that all men are rapists, which no one I know of believes.
If someone says they find the actions of gays repulsive, they’re branded a homophobe. Fall in line little bolsheviks, hate speech dictated by the regime will not be tolerated.
its kind of adorable how that chas bono picture has ‘cute’ and ‘hideous’ at the bottom, like the dude wasnt confident enough in his message to trust that people would figure it out on their own
I think I’m just extra special rage-y about the erasure of women oil workers today. (Ed Note – at-the-pump prices are tied to by-the-barrel prices with the same ephemeral and esoteric string that MRAsssbutt logic is tied to real-world logic. I’ll give you a shiny new quarter if you can guess the colour of skin and the gender of the peeps who set pay-at-the-pump prices though.)
A big part of it is that I love my job with all my heart, and I hate seeing it being misrepresented as some sort of Industrial Revolution poverty porn-esque hell on earth where all the Good Hardworking Honest Men go to toil in little safety and comfort for the Pampered Princesses of the world. Cause none of the mines I’ve worked in – oilsands, coal, uranium or potash – have working conditions that are any less clean or safe than say, the grocery store butcher’s shop I worked in while I was in school. Less pleasant than swanning about some uber-modern office in swishy silks and exotic perfumes (like you do), but not *intolerable*
The other part of it is that while I love to drill, I’m a bit too pregnant to be out there anymore, and I’m being asked to go back anyways. Which is just going to be a nightmare on every front.
I do not understand what MRAs think they can accomplish by calling lesbians ugly. By definition we do not want to have sex with or pursue romantic relationships with men; ergo, we do not care whether men think we are physically attractive. If the greatest “insult” some puny man can muster is “You’re fat and ugly!” his wit is pathetic indeed. Almost pitiable.
NWO, if someone finds gays repulsive, they ARE a homophobe. If they found other races repulsive, they’d be a racist. Facts, motherfucker.
Or are you one of those “love the sinner, hate the sin” assholes?
@halite
i think he meant soldiers. which granted, doesnt make it less reprehensible.
@hellkell
owlslaves philosophy is more like ‘hate the sinner, hate the non-sinner too just for good measure’
Uh, yeah, you’ve basically given the dictionary definition of “homophobe.”
Just like if someone says they find the actions of black people repulsive, they’re “branded a racist.” Because that actually is racist.
that is the dictionary definition of homophobe, yes. did your 19th century encyclopedias fail you on that one, duder?
@david
t(‘_’t)
David, we are the hivemind today.
sharculese, I think he’s more “hate the sinner, BEAT THEM IN THE STREETS.”
“Lesbobo?”
WTF?
$10 says that when he says “or I suppose, transsexual” he’s referring to trans women who he considers to be gay men TO THE MAX!!
There are not enough cookies in the world to get Cookie Monster to approve of your blatant homophobia and transphobia, AVfM.
“Lesbobo” would be a good name for a stripper clown catering to lesbian women.
Just sayin’.
@David Futrelle
“Uh, yeah, you’ve basically given the dictionary definition of “homophobe.”
Just like if someone says they find the actions of black people repulsive, they’re “branded a racist.” Because that actually is racist.”
Dave, that is the most pathetic analogy of all time. The defining act of gays is the act of having sex with other men, for lesbians it’s having sex with other women. Tell me, Dave, what is the defining act that makes a black person black? Can anyone here tell me what the defining act is that makes a black person black?
I am laughing that he is trying to gain gay support whilst labeling it THE GAY AGENDA!!! No queer person is gonna fall for that. Is he that dense??? XDXDXD
Like I said before, love the sinner but hate the sin isn’t good enough for the gang. You want everyone to love the sin as well. What’s next, do I need to love the beastiality gang as well. Can I still find that act repulsive? What else am I forbidden to say, Dave, without being branded with some made up word? What other acts must I endorse lest I be considered the bad man? Who get’s to decide what’s good and bad? Who get’s to decide what’s hate speech? Is there a vote? Or is it dictated?
@Halite: Thank you…that clown image will be carefully filed away in my brain to haunt future nightmares.
@ Halite
When I saw “lesbobo” I thought “lesbonobo”, which I guess would be a a lesbian bonobo, which would be awesome, and definitely better than MRAs (though from what I’ve heard, most bonobos are bi).
@ Sharculese–yeah, I think he’s talking about soldiers fighting in wars in oil-producing countries, not oil rig workers, though if he thought of oil rig workers, he’d probably complain about how they’re all* guys and therefore women are exploiting them whenever they turn on the light or drive to… wherever it is that women drive to in in the imaginations of misogynists.
* Obviously not, but these are MRAs. I don’t expect accuracy.
But but… Chapin is not making fun of ALL lesbians, just the ones who insult male sexuality by refusing to look hot!
Definition of homophobe
Noun 1. homophobe – a person who hates or fears homosexual people
It appears you’ve lied, Dave. I clearly stated I find the act repulsive. I neither hate nor fear gays. I also can’t stand the act of eating dog shit, I’ve never tried yet somehow I know. What else aren’t I allowed to find repulsive without being branded as a hater? How about if a woman finds fellatio repulsive and states it as a fact. Surely there’s a word for such a vile woman. You people are sickeningly hateful.
I kind of find sex repulsive, I mean it is a lot of unpleasant looking organs and lots of unpleasant bodily fluids. However, sex is generally a voluntary activity (I know this is a strong generalisation) as is watching people have sex. As long as I don’t have to participate and the people who are participating are doing it of their own free will it really doesn’t concern me. In general I don’t think about sex much. I’m not quite sure why people would find what gay men and women do repulsive, you aren’t being forced to participate, watch or even think about it. If that type of sex doesn’t sound pleasant to you (and it isn’t be forced on you) go think about cute bunnies or something.
@jumbofish
based on the passage argenti quoted about, i wonder if he just doesnt know what else to call it. i mean, it goes without saying that jto has never engaged with an actual gay person before, but he’s heard the term ‘gay agenda’ before, so… that must be a thing, right?
in other words, the reason jto is the worst ally gay men could ask for are as diverse as they are plentiful
Sharculese — I quoted that first quote before I finished, when I was still thinking he might mean well but be clueless, I’m willing to let “the gay agenda” slide in context, but he proves he’s not actually a decent human being with the next bit I quoted (which is the very end of the article)
And having fallen down a rabbithole of Thomas Bell, I’m glad to come back here to see NWO being told to open a dictionary.
NWO, there’s a free online one by merriam webster even, the relevant definition for homophobe. “find the actions of gays repulsive” = “aversion to…homosexuality or homosexuals”
Except, your issue isn’t even with gays is it? I’m guessing it’s more like you have an issue with all public displays of affection and that’s wtf you should say then. (Seriously, you don’t want to see anyone making out? Neither do most people)
@Naira – sorry for that :/ Here, have some (big!) kittehs: http://quetzalcoatl-rising.tumblr.com/post/23933351129/fitzenstein-love
@Sharculese, WordSpinner – I hadn’t thought of the soldier angle. Usually it’s the “we men died in the coal mines while hunting the eluse and rare coal-mammoth for you” tale of woe that I hear.
But again I’d like to point out (to the Trolls that Be, that is) that the ppl making the decisions to spend solider’s (men AND women) lives are not generally women. MISANDRY! (?)
“How about if a woman finds fellatio repulsive and states it as a fact.” — would be a relevant comparison if anyone was saying you had to engage in homosexual sex, which we aren’t. In fact, Pear_tree has explained exactly that (I realize ze commented after your comment, but read it)
And analogy fail aside, if a woman said she found anyone performing fellatio repulsive (not the act itself as a personal preference, but anyone performing the act) — then yeah, we’d probably mock her too. No one is saying you have to have same sex sexytimes not to be a homophobe, just that you do not get a say in anyone else’s sexytimes.
Can’t you just ban NWO? You might be doing him a favor at this point. I don’t know, just an idea.
@argenti
i’m not trying to mitigate the terribleness of what he said, just pointing out that with jto ‘clueless or spiteful’ is a game with no winner
also, no, owlslave has a special hatred for gay people in particular. part of his self-created origin story is that back when he was homeless and went 300 days without eating, there was basically no crime he wouldnt commit to avoid having to suck dick for food. (how this ties in with the year-long fast is not clear).
which, as a personal choice, if you don’t want to exchange sex for food, that’s fine. but owlslave has made it clear that in his case his disgust for homosexuality is so strong that he wouldnt perform a homosexual act to save his life
@owlslave
i know in made-up pretend land that distinction makes sense, but here in reality we get that reviling a person for the way they live their live is the same as reviling the person. this is not complicated.
NWO, can you tell me what the defining act is that makes a gay person gay? I live in a heavily gay neighborhood, so I see gay people doing gay things all the time: eating lunch, shopping, walking dogs.
Those are all gay acts, because the people doing them are gay. Or is gay sex the only thing that counts as gay? There are gay people who are celibate and not interested in sex, or who have never had sex (but want to), or who have had sex but never with someone of their own gender. Even the gayest gay in gaytown isn’t having gay sex all the time. (I wonder, if sex is the only defining gay act, if someone who has gay sex twice as often as another gay person is therefore twice as gay?)
Yes, sometimes I see gay couples holding hands, or kissing. I pretty much never see them having sex, so even if I were disgusted by that it wouldn’t really affect my daily life. I’m not sure why it affects yours, unless you hate gays all the time, not just when they are having sex.
Somehow I suspect that you would be “disgusted” by gay guys walking down the street holding hands.
Okay, now NWO is comparing homosexual sex to eating dog shit. I second banning him.
@fembot
if we banned owlslave we’d just be inflicting him on the huffington post comments section. which, now that i think about it… is better than they deserve.
but seriously, his brand of hatred is so comically obtuse that it’s more than made up for by superdogs, ‘flouride’ shots, etc.
@Argenti Aertheri
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of fellatio is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of cunnilngus is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of beastiality is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act being pissed on is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act of being shit on is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act eating used tampons is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act eating warm shit is a hater.
Any woman who doesn’t love the act drinking refrigerated piss is a hater.
If you find any of these act’s repulsive it is hate speech. To each his/her own isn’t enough, you must profess your love of the act.
I do hope I’ve made my point.
NWO (and Sharculese) — “part of his self-created origin story is that back when he was homeless … he … avoid[ed] having to suck dick for food.” — if that’s remotely true, then I want to point out that survival sex isn’t really consensual sex. It’s nothing like a consensual relationship between members of any gender in other words.
Sharculese — “but owlslave has made it clear that in his case his disgust for homosexuality is so strong that he wouldnt perform a homosexual act to save his life” — you know, that too is fine, it is his life to not save. I think we all have a line we wouldn’t cross even to save our own lives, but if it’s an act that people regularly consent to, and is legal, then I just can’t understand being repulsed by people who are consenting to it. I can see the argument for “I’d rather die than be raped” though, and performing sex to save your life? Rape in every state I know of if it’s a direct threat on your life — and not, as was the case in NWO’s history, the indirect threat of starving if he didn’t resort to prostitution (indirect threats are not legal rape, despite being ethically full of shit).
David — “I pretty much never see them having sex” — wait, you sometimes do see gay sex in public?!
I do wonder how gay kissing members of my (biological) gender is…I don’t dare speculate on what kissing other genderqueer folks would be by NWO.
0.1% committed to gay rights!
Now, see, this is what they need on their bumper stickers.
@David Futrelle
“NWO, can you tell me what the defining act is that makes a gay person gay? I live in a heavily gay neighborhood, so I see gay people doing gay things all the time: eating lunch, shopping, walking dogs.
Those are all gay acts, because the people doing them are gay.”
Dave, you really don’t deserve an answer for this statement. Are they rapist acts as well? Rapists also eat and walk dogs. Are they pedophile acts, they eat and walk dogs as well. How about murderers? Thieves? Extortionists? Arsonists?
Do you really think that little of my intelligence?
@argenti
that’s not quite what i meant. like i felt i made it clear that if someones line is not exchanging sex for survival that is their line. the point is that in owlslave’s mythology, he was breaking into stores rather than doing anything gay, and this isn’t a personal preference, it’s a noble virtue.
@Shaenon
“0.1% committed to gay rights!”
Everyone has the right to life, freedom, property and vote. No one has the right to have what they do be loved and endorsed. Do they have the right to life, freedom, property and vote? I guess they have the same rights as me. Gay rights, the same as mine. I find the act repulsive. A hate speech law infringes on my right to freedom, I now have less rights.
David – I also wonder… is having sex with a man gay? Is having sex with a woman gay?
I mean, if either of these is an Inherently Gay act, it shouldn’t matter who does it, right?
I’m not trying to prove homosexuality doesn’t exist (obviously), but it seems weird that the act of “sex with a man” is only wrong and gross when certain people do it.
…Honestly, though, I think NWO is disgusted by ALL sex, so he might be surprisingly equitable on this one.
So now men die in wars so that women can have cheaper gasoline? What will they come up with next?
No, any woman who doesn’t like these things has a preference. Any woman who thinks no one should do these things and people who do shouldn’t have the same rights as everyone else because of it, is a hater.
NWO, if someone finds the thought of interracial sex “repulsive,” I would have no trouble describing that person as racist. (Of course, there are people who love interracial sex who are also racist, but that’s a whole other issue.)
*disclaimer* With the exception of bestiality all those things are between consenting adults and should be legal. Bestiality is legal in a disturbingly large number of states, in fact legal in more states than same sex marriage which makes me very, very sad.
it’s not only that we think very little of your intelligence, it’s also that we think very much of your violent, delusional anger
How can this be seen as anything BUT beautiful?
Yeah, NWOslave, you can’t get married because gay people can. Suuuuurrrrre.
(Maybe NWOslave thinks the gay men are marrying all the straight women and leaving none for him?)
owlslave, should it be illegal for me to call you an angry whiner who blames external forces for his life because hes too much of a coward to take responsibility for your decisions? i need a yes or no, but just a yes or no. don’t try to equivocate.
You want a yes or no from Slavey, we’ll be here all night. :P
Actually, yeah, a woman telling OTHER PEOPLE they aren’t allowed to eat tampons or shit or whatever is a hater.