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Banned in the MRA!

Well, I have been banned from the Men’s Rights subreddit, evidently for mentioning The Spearhead too often. And also, apparently, because of Lorena Bobbit? Honesty, I’m not sure I fully understand why I’m banned; I am pretty sure I haven’t breached any of the tenets of Reddiquette in any of my comments in r/mr. See if you can figure it out:

I’m also banned from A Voice for Men. And Toysoldier. Not sure about The Spearhead. I don’t think so, but there’s not really much point posting somewhere where all dissenting commenters (and most women) are downvoted so thoroughly that you have to click a special link to even see them. I might or might not be able to comment on other MRA blogs, I don’t know.

But honestly, the only Men’s Rights forum I really have (or had) any reason or desire to comment in is the Men’s Rights subreddit, because for all of its faults it’s really the only MRA forum of any size that’s not completely overrun with misogynists and fanatics. The only one where there is even a chance of holding any kind of substantive discussions with MRAs online. And Ig has shut that door, at least for me.

(There are of course many other places to discuss things with MRAs online, like, you know, here, and NSWATM, and so on, but these places aren’t run by MRAs.)

I asked Ig if he would also ban the guy who wished me liver cancer earlier today. I have not heard back from him yet.

EDITED TO ADD: Ig has gotten back to me. He recommends that I “go to hell.” Meanwhile, the liver-cancer wisher has reaffirmed his desire that I “catch” cancer.

Elsewhere in r/mr, another fellow describes me as “an accumulation of grunge far worse than any of the quotes you mine.” Which doesn’t make a lot of sense, but at least has a spark of originality to it.

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Posted on May 21, 2012, in drama, misogyny, MRA, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 135 Comments.

  1. I’d be more willing to accept the “no true MRA hates women” argument if someone could show me one site, anywhere, that identifies itself as MRAs and doesn’t make “evil feminists and evil women” stories its bread and butter.

    There’s some distinction between the ones that really hate all women, and the ones that allow a good woman could exist between certain very narrow parameters. I guess you just haven’t been giving Group 2 their due.

  2. So spearhead is not part of the mra now?

  3. They really hate being quoted their own words, apparently.

  4. I am rolling my eyes at the “civil” discussion of why women’s right to vote should be taken way. something about because men have to sign up to the draft and women don’t take responsibility they shouldn’t vote? Its frustrating people in this day and age still think that.

  5. My one adventure in r/mr land convinced me that there was no value in participating there. I wouldn’t be surprised if r/mr’s misogynistic output could fuel a whole anti-misogyny blog all on its own.

  6. Sounds like you really hit a nerve. XD

  7. Crumbelievable

    And by “used to be linked here” he means “As recently this month”

  8. Crumbelievable

    as this month*

  9. Crumbelievable

    Did you or anyone ever call them out for letting AnnaChrist be moderator? It would be kind of hard to say that someone who serves the fuckin` MODERATOR of your massive forum is an outlier in the MRM. Although I`m sure they`d find a way…

  10. CassandraSays

    Is this whole Spearhead is not a True Scotsman thing their attempt to counteract the SPLC article?

  11. If there really are all these moderate, non-misogynistic MRAs out there, they might wanna think about speaking the fuck up already.

    Because the only reasonable people I hear talk about men’s issues would be ashamed to be associated with the MRM.

  12. thebewilderness

    All men are individuals and all feminists are the Borg.

  13. Crumbelievable

    So spearhead is not part of the mra now?

    Their “About” section talks about being part a movement concerned with men`s issues
    And the words MRM and MRA come up frequently in both the comments and articles
    And The Spearhead often collaborates with prominent MRAs like Paul Elam and Pierce Harlan
    And every article shares the same bullshit talking points as every other MRA website
    And the comment section is frequented by MRAs who can be found posting on a variety of MRA sites

    So clearly, this site has nothing to do with the MRM.

  14. David,

    I asked Ig if he would also ban the guy who wished me liver cancer earlier today. I have not heard back from him yet.

    I’m sure you know this already, but I strongly suggest not holding your breath on that one.

  15. Crumbelievable

    If there really are all these moderate, non-misogynistic MRAs out there, they might wanna think about speaking the fuck up already.

    Because the only reasonable people I hear talk about men’s issues would be ashamed to be associated with the MRM.

    Apparently there`s an “r/masculinism” subreddit where the level of discourse is decent? I`ve never seen it (I try to avoid browsing Reddit for the sake of my blood pressure) but MRAs on one Reddit thread were basically saying “If you find the misogyny in this forum bothersome, go to the Masculinism forum”

  16. I am rolling my eyes at the “civil” discussion of why women’s right to vote should be taken way.

    Hahah seriously. “I’m totally civilly telling you that I think you deserve less basic human rights than me just for being a woman. NO OFFENSE!”

    *EYEROLL*

    I’m trying to remember to not feed the trolls. I’m really trying. But I’ve been engaged in debate on imdb for the past day or so off and on and it’s just such a waste of time. When I tell said man that I am not going to waste my time on the novel he just wrote about his fantasy world, I’m insulted. He also told me that feminists are never willing to debate with him. Maybe it’s because it’s obvious that it’s a complete waste of everyone’s time!

  17. If there really are all these moderate, non-misogynistic MRAs out there, they might wanna think about speaking the fuck up already.

    Because the only reasonable people I hear talk about men’s issues would be ashamed to be associated with the MRM.

    AMEN! I look around and I see “feminists are evil and do this” freaking everywhere, but all the feminist sites I read involve mostly intelligent, thoughtful people. But I can’t find a single MRM site or blog that isn’t laced with blatant misogyny.

    I don’t get how they stand behind this type of content. If I was an MRA, I’d be all over those blogs being like, “Don’t you get that you’re making us look bad and giving our cause a horrible name?”

  18. They really hate being quoted their own words, apparently.

  19. Speaking of internet bullies like the MRAs, have you met George Tierney Jr of Greenville South Carolina? :)

    http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2012/05/20/internet-man-does-not-want-to-be-on-the-google-anymore/

  20. I know the dude that runs r/masculism, he’s not a bad guy. Guest-blogged for NSWATM once. I don’t know how good the reddit is though.

  21. I think the article on the Southern Poverty Center website linked to a fairly moderate blog too… this one here;

    http://www.ofmb.org/

  22. I couldn’t get past the “that tends to happen when people are fighting for basic human rights.”

    Do they even understand what that means?

  23. Well, to paraphrase a great comedic mind, I wouldn’t want to be part of any group that would have me as a member.

    Being banned from that sewer only compliments you.

  24. I wonder if they’ll ever have the self-awareness to realize they’ve turned into what they used to claim to hate (circlejerks).

  25. Alpha Asshole Cock Carousel

    So /mr is distancing itself from the Spearhead?

    Nice coalition-building move. Soon the MRA’s will rise up as a bunch of uncoordinated groups that hate each other, and together will … not do anything.

  26. Well if it helps, the power went out at the site I work at a couple of days ago (I work with da menz who hunt the mammoth and frequently go hunting with them) (mining and civil construction) So as the only wimmenz who shares a crib room with the labour dudes (about 60 dudes and me), we were sitting around and we had been stood down cos no power so for the LOLZ I showed them the AVFM, Spearhead and a few of the other MRA beacons of whatever they are beacons of cos the laptop still had fuel and the interwebz dongle gets powered off the laptop. (I sort out the legal paperwork when da mammoth hunting runs afoul of the various legislation, arsehole clients and also (free) helps out them and their loved ones when they run afoul of the beaurocracy and da law generally)

    Their response (and I specifically showed them the ‘we hunt da mammoth meme including all the stuff about coal miners being da mammoth hunters of today)

    1. Pissed themselves laughing.
    2. Asked if I was getting enough sleep if I was tracking down this hillbilly shit (their words) outside of work (long hours lately – bad shit happening)
    3. Checked the websites were real.
    4. Pissed themselves laughing again.
    5. A dude who has been going through a terrible divorce thanked me for showing him he has been alot more reasonable than what he thought he was. He vowed to never end up like that. he said this was because tho he cranky with the ex missus he still plans to get laid again in the future and thanked the MRAs for taking themselves out of the competiton. And for being a warning of what could happen if his anger got the better of him.

    These are rough lads. F n Cs are the days friendly greeting. They were not horrifed they just found the whole thing a riot. So thanks MRA dudes. You kept 60 coal miner mammoth hunters heartily amused 2 days ago when the power went down.

  27. A dude who has been going through a terrible divorce thanked me for showing him he has been alot more reasonable than what he thought he was. He vowed to never end up like that

    Futrelle may have kept a dude from turning to the Dark Side. Schweet.

  28. Femac:

    Your post was both memorable and extremely lolworthy! I’m so glad that real ” mammoth hunters” find MRA bullshit as funny as we do.

  29. @Femac:

    Thank you for that story! Sounds like the guy going through the divorce has achieved basic levels of distinguishing things from one another that the MRAs still fail at. A friend of mine is in the process of a rather annoying divorce (made more annoying since his job takes him out of town/the country for 3-4 months at a time). But yeah, once the stress of the divorce is done, he’s leaning towards “open to but not actively looking for” another woman in his life.

    I do love the real-world reactions of men I show MRA stuff to. The whole “every man is like us, secretly hating women, resenting marriage, etc” argument falls flat Every. Single. Time. It doesn’t matter what their political affiliation is, personality, or anything else. Even the iron-clad, old-school, curmudgeon says “You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.”

  30. Crumbelievable

    @femac:

    That story is particularly hilarious since those guys were miners–the same people whose interests MRAs always claim to represent.

  31. As some of you already know, I went through a months-long period of depression after breaking up with my girlfriend last year. (I’m feeling much better these days, by the way.) It was no small source of comfort to be able to look to MRAs, MGTOWs, and their assorted ilk and say “Hey, I may be feeling all sorts of fucked up inside, but at at least I’m not a misogynistic asshole like these guys.”

  32. Ruby Hypatia

    They can’t handle reason. It’s their Kryptonite.

  33. Aw David! You’ve made them mad!! And you know what that means.

    I guess that they can’t get to the SPLC, so now they’ll lash out at you. Its not like their banning you will do much.

    Nice to see that they can get their acts togethercollectively ban you from several sites. Maybe this is the first tiny step towards activism on their part?

  34. @Drac

    (I’m feeling much better these days, by the way.)

    Yay! :)

  35. “.. Men’s Rights subreddit, because for all of its faults it’s really the only MRA forum of any size that’s not completely overrun with misogynists and fanatics ..”

    There are many purple pill bastions that you can try:

    http://www.feministcritics.org/blog/

    http://www.pellebilling.com/

    You can also find many MRAs at the primarily feminist Good Men Project, some of whom welcome productive discussion with feminists:

    http://goodmenproject.com/

    I suspect that you were banned because of suspicion that you were involved in this:
    http://www.reddit.com/r/beatingwomen/

    Like you, I have noticed that reddit/r/mensrights continues to move strongly into reconcilliation and centrist territory. This trend is troubling to me. Power does not work this way. For men to have a meaningful voice in our own futures, we have drag the enemy (you) kicking and screaming to the negotiation table — and we have to be seen to do this. Until I see the whites of the feminist eyes, it is too soon for talking.

  36. Oh yes, because that’s where you drag people kicking and screaming. The “negotiation table”.

  37. For men to have a meaningful voice in our own futures, we have drag the enemy (you) kicking and screaming to the negotiation table

    Any settlement reached in said negotiations would be void for duress, seeing as how one party was only present via force or threat of force. If this is how you want to get “both sides” to the table, you’re only shooting yourself in the foot.

  38. It is not a person who will be “kicking and screaming”. It is a movement.

    When the river of dirty money that finances fanatical feminist discrimination starts to dry up, you will understand what I mean. Feminists will be begging for the federal government to fund male studies departments, for DV shelters to admit men, for family courts to treat fathers like human beings, and for equal access to healthcare for men. Men will negotiate from a position of equal strength, or we will not negotiate at all.

  39. It is not a person who will be “kicking and screaming”. It is a movement.

    Oh yes, of course that’s what you meant. Gotta keep your own hands clean, right?

  40. Why must feminists be the ones to beg for those things?

    So, I support my local food bank with a Thanksgiving donation each year. Why should the people in the next town over demand that I do the same for their food bank? Maybe the should do it their own goddamn selves.

  41. Oh Antz, just admit you want to use violence. It’s obvious from your every word. Have you talked to a therapist yet?

  42. The whites of our eyes?

    My, but we are full of ourselves this morning. If it’s the “movement”, which is coming “to the table” you are talking about social attitudes; no one is going to ask you; it will be consensus of the zeitgeist

    Right now, your guys are losing that, it’s why there are Sodonis, and Lepines, and Balls and Brieiviks (he was on the losing side of lots of movements, one of them is yours).

  43. Dragging people (or “people”) kicking and screaming to the “negotiating table”? Yet another manifestation of how MRA’s are confused about rape. I mean, they are the same people who believe it’s possible to drag a woman kicking and screaming to have, like, totally consensual sex.

  44. Basic human rights, eh?

    Here’s a good article (in fact, so good, I have to keep to share with students in future):

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/civil-rights/

    I do not see where the class of men are denied basic human rights as defined by this article (sub-classes within men, i.e. black men, american indian men, gay men, disabled men, poor men etc.) have been and are denied rights, but men as a whole? And straight white men?

    The draft in the U.S. was discriminatory, I think (as most feminists think, but usually it was discriminating against women as a class).

    So, I wish some discriminating MRA (hie Antz) would look at this entry and give me some examples (with links, not just made up) proving that men as a class have to fight for basic human rights.

    @David: as one of your happiest lickspittle dick tuggers, let me congratulate you on being banned! I’d only worry if they wanted you around.

  45. So your gonna bring us “kicking and screaming”, and we will be “begging”. Sound like a lovely negotiation. Peaceful and all.

  46. @Kyrie: the more I think about it, the more that “negotiation” sounds like some kind of cross between a rape fetish and a degree in political science.

  47. Kendra, the bionic mommy

    Power does not work this way. For men to have a meaningful voice in our own futures, we have drag the enemy (you) kicking and screaming to the negotiation table — and we have to be seen to do this. Until I see the whites of the feminist eyes, it is too soon for talking.

    Anthony Zarat, you are not at the Battle of Bunker Hill. You are trolling on the Internet. Keep it up, though, because you do more to discredit the MRM than anyone else.

  48. Men are so very oppressed that they are the majority of every power structure in the world. Women would love to be oppressed in that manner. Let us oppress a woman to be the next President!

    Free the men from all leadership roles!

  49. I, too, was recently banned, for reasons not made very clear to me. I suppose it was the fact that I think men are equally culpable in unplanned pregnancy and should not be able to skip out on financially supporting their children. Or that I called out numerous self-post trolls that were later proven to be making up stories about sperm-jacking and women-beating. When I think it really hit the fan was when I started calling Pierce Harlan out on his fraudulent “I’m a lawyer, I see women lie about rape ALL THE TIME” claims and his multiple sockpuppets, followed by the influx of extremists after the SPLC article. What is incredibly stupid, however, is that you can pretty much create infinite reddit accounts, so unless you are concerned about karma, it doesn’t fucking matter. It really is disheartening that a subsect of conservative women-hating assholes has taken over a sub that I used to get a lot out of intellectually and philosophically.

  50. I suspect that you were banned because of suspicion that you were involved in this:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/beatingwomen/

    antz, did you miss the part where even r/mensrights thought paul-e’s little theory was totally fucking stupid

  51. Like you, I have noticed that reddit/r/mensrights continues to move strongly into reconcilliation and centrist territory.

    Because it means that something might get done and will take more effort then whining on the interwebz.

    This trend is troubling to me.

    Of course it is, not only does it mean having to do more *gasp in horror* work, it also means that something will get done that does not involve hating women. It would be something that helps men! The HORROR.

    Power does not work this way.

    Actually…yes it does, if you want it to last longer than one Generalissimo Supreme President Father of Country’s lifetime anyway. Compromising some with each group with in a society means that most groups get something they need and something they want.

    For men to have a meaningful voice in our own futures, we have drag the enemy (you) kicking and screaming to the negotiation table — and we have to be seen to do this.

    In other words-until you can force, with maximum levels of pain and suffering, anyone who does not believe men are superior to their knees in supplication to your insane demands in front of the entire world, it does not count.

    So when activists work out a way for men to have a shelter to be at to escape abusive relationships-that is a failure. But when MRA shut down a women’s shelter and force the women to have to stay with their abusers-that is a success.

    When a program is designed and implemented at a college that helps men understand that they can admit their feelings when it comes to being overwhelmed and seek help so they do not kill themselves. That is a failure.

    When feminists are forced to retreat on the issue of birth control so women once again start dying in massive numbers from botched abortions-that is a success.

    When women are stripped of all rights, chances at self determination and anything that does not make them completely dependent on the goodwill of men (which will be withheld to the greatest extent possible), only then will you be willing to sit down and discuss the terms of our enslavement.

    Until I see the whites of the feminist eyes, it is too soon for talking.

    Fuck off Antz, you are nothing more than a wannabe terrorist who lacks the nerve to even admit that you want all women dead.

  52. equal access to healthcare for men

    You already have it. If anything is unequal, it’s the opposite of what you think because if something is growing inside of you and endangering your health (possibly even your life) and needs to be removed, you won’t be turned away from 1 in 6 hospitals (statistically speaking) on the grounds of “religious freedom”.

    You probably won’t have to travel out of state to get it removed either.

    And you probably won’t have to wait 24 or 48 hours to think about what a horrible human being you are, just for wanting a legal medical procedure.

    Pharmacists aren’t legally allowed to refuse to fill your prescriptions because of “religious freedom”.

    Doctors aren’t legally allowed to lie to you about a condition you might have because of “religious freedom”.

    The likelihood that extremist groups will set up faux clinics to try to keep you from having certain medical procedures and access to medications is rather low.

    It is unlikely you will have to pass a crowd of angry extremists who call you horrible names in order to get certain types of care.

    I’m pretty sure you don’t want the same kind of “access” to healthcare that women have.

  53. I suspect that you were banned because of suspicion that you were involved in this:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/beatingwomen/

    Did you miss the part that David has no reason to have made that subreddit. In fact one of the fucking moderators on the men’s right reddit actually is part of /beating woman (AnnArchist). Is he a feminist conspiracy too? I mean do you realize how far you are scapegoating here right? Besides that, the reason why he was banned was in this article. Something about posting lies constantly about how spearhead is part of the mrm (when apparently its not). I mean its a crap reason but he wasn’t banned under suspicion of starting /beatingwomen because thats such a laughable conspiracy theory.

  54. I suspect that you were banned because of suspicion that you were involved in this:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/beatingwomen/

    Did you miss the part that David has no reason to have made that subreddit. In fact one of the fucking moderators on the men’s right reddit actually is part of /beatingwoman (AnnArchist). Is he a feminist conspiracy too? I mean do you realize how far you are scapegoating here right? Besides that, the reason why he was banned was in this article. Something about posting lies constantly about how spearhead is part of the mrm (when apparently its not). I mean its a crap reason but he wasn’t banned under suspicion of starting /beatingwomen because thats such a laughable conspiracy theory.

  55. @Naira: some kind of cross between a rape fetish and a degree in political science.

    Falls over laughing!

    Hands you internet!

    Bows low before you in respect.

  56. Lorena bobbit? I know she’s a scare word to misogynists, but she was sick. You’re kind of an asshole if you think she ‘hates men’ because she was sick in the past, but is better now.

  57. @ Ithiliana:

    Shakes hand.

    Thank you! I think it is one of my superpowers to imagine odd porn. AZ’s idea of negotiation made me think of the UN chambers outfitted by Dungeons ‘R Us.

    I do wish I could use this power for good…instead of just mentally forking myself every now and then.

  58. @Rutee Katreya

    It’s MRA logic, one woman did a terrible thing to one man, therefore she hates all men. She hates all men and is therefore a feminist. She is a feminist and therefor all feminists want to cut all men’s penises off. QED.

  59. Purple pill bastions? Are we back to colour coding again?
    Next we’ll be writing our names above our cubbies.

  60. I guess red/blue equals purple MATRIX stuff–so centrist is purple?

    my favorite color!

  61. long time lurker

    I propose a new entry in your glossary

    misrepresenting = quoting directly

  62. Antz, I may disagree with Ig about almost everything, but he’s not stupid, nor is he delusional enough to believe Elam’s ridiculous conspiracy theory about r/beatingwomen. The only people who believe that nonsense are those living in the AVFM bubble.

    At think at this point even Elam realizes that whoever sent him that “intel” claiming that I had something to do with r/beatingwomen was trolling, and that he’s been had. You do remember his promise to come forward with evidence, right? Whatever happened to that?

    (Hint: he has no evidence. There is none.)

  63. thebewilderness

    I think the purple pill is a reference to suicide or heartburn or rap music.
    One of those.

  64. Anyone who stands for equal rights is a Feminist and a MRA.

    Duh.

    Saying “The Spearhead” is a MRA site is like saying “RadFemHub” is a legitimate feminist website.

    Ander’s Breivik’s Manifesto should be taken as satire, like Valerie Solanas and the SCUM Manifesto, or Jonathan Swift’s A Modest Proposal.

    Isn’t it fun when gender warriors play games?

    Can you guess what game is being played?

    If you can’t see how both sides are doing the same thing, chances are you’re a partisan way too entrenched in gender war.

  65. Wait wait wait. Okay, in the past, many people have written culturally awful things and then gone back and tried to quell backlash by insisting it was intended as satire.

    But now we’re doing it for a guy who killed a bunch of people but wrote about it before he killed them?

    The difference between RadFemHub and Spearhead is that you can count the number of feminist sites that echo its sentiments on a single hand probably, whereas Spearhead’s sentiments can pretty much be found throughout the “manosphere”, as this blog’s rather extensive log shows.

  66. Power does not work this way. For men to have a meaningful voice in our own futures, we have drag the enemy (you) kicking and screaming to the negotiation table — and we have to be seen to do this.

    So it’s not about equality or fair treatment? It’s about power?

    I can’t think of any civil rights movement of the last century that succeeded by crushing its enemies, seeing them driven before it, and hearing the lamentations of their women. But you think this happens all the time?

    Feminists will be begging for the federal government to fund male studies departments, for DV shelters to admit men, for family courts to treat fathers like human beings, and for equal access to healthcare for men.

    Feminists support most of those things. Personally, I’d rather have separate men’s DV services rather than letting men into women’s shelters, which can be dangerous to women whose abusive partners are trying to track them down. And I don’t think specific federal earmarks for gender studies is a good use of taxpayer dollars, but I’m perfectly fine with colleges and universities setting up men’s studies (or women’s studies) departments if they want to. But yes, courts should totally treat fathers like human beings, and men and women should have equal access to health care.

  67. Incidentally, this summer I will finally start getting equal access to healthcare!

    As a freelancer at my company, I have to pay for my own health insurance. Thanks to Obamacare, in July insurance companies have to stop charging women extra for lady health. My monthly insurance premium will drop from $500 a month to $180. It is sweet as hell.

    Of course, as a left-wing pinko I’d rather have across-the-board socialized health care than the piecemeal system Obama has been able to pass, but this is still a huge weight off my shoulders.

  68. Anyone who stands for equal rights is a Feminist and a MRA.

    As how the men’s rights groups stands as it is today, its more of a hate group than anything else so no I would not count them as a group aiming for equal rights.

    Ander’s Breivik’s Manifesto should be taken as satire,

    Except he really meant it, so much so that he fucking killed people over it. That was no satire.

    If you can’t see how both sides are doing the same thing, chances are you’re a partisan way too entrenched in gender war.

    I don’t see feminists saying its logical to take men’s voting away, or that foreign men are better because they are more passive, or that women should be literal sex slaves, or that little girl’s voice boxes should be removed, and all the other disgusting crap mras spew is no was comparable to the worst of radfems.

    Also cut the “gender war crap” there is no gender war, both men and women are trying to keep the status quo of women being lesser and both men and women are trying to end it. There is no war split between men and women, only a unfortunate past that needs to be put behind us.

  69. “But now we’re doing it for a guy who killed a bunch of people but wrote about it before he killed them?”

    But now we’re doing it for a girl who attempted to kill a person but wrote about it before she attempted kill them?

    “The difference between RadFemHub and Spearhead is that you can count the number of feminist sites that echo its sentiments on a single hand probably, whereas Spearhead’s sentiments can pretty much be found throughout the “manosphere”, as this blog’s rather extensive log shows.”

    I wonder…

    Are you that blind that you can’t see the same argument being made by the other side?

    Check your partisan privilege.

    You have no higher ground to stand on.

    You are in the same fetid pit as your enemy throwing shit at each other, whilst both sides consume their own excrement.

    It plagues me to no end how easily the masses are moved to insanity to protect themselves from the imminent “danger” of their “enemies”.

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