New Reddit theory: Girls develop early in order to entrap guys and send them to prison
So someone on Reddit posted a video showing time-lapse video of a girl from infanthood to 12 years old. Naturally, Redditors responded with creepy pedophilia jokes, and one Redditor (speaking for many, judging by the numerous upvotes) took the opportunity to complain about just how hard it is for dudes to not have sex with underage girls. Apparently these girls deliberately develop earlier than boys as part of an elaborate plot to entrap guys and send them to jail.
Thanks to ShitRedditSays for pointing me to this latest bit of egregious Redditry.
Posted on April 23, 2012, in creepy, dozens of upvotes, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, oppressed men, pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 693 Comments.
And once again I have to wonder where these innocent guys are meeting all those 14-year-olds. Yeah, some 14-year-olds hang with a much older crowd, but it’s not common, and meeting one of them without anyone saying “she’s 14″ or her saying anything telling like “I can’t wait until I get a driver’s licence so I can take myself to cheer practice” is even less so.
I don’t think the real answer is “they’re hanging out in schoolyards,” though. I think the real answer is that most of these guys have had no sexual opportunities at all with teenagers, but are consumed with a need to justify why they totally should be allowed if they ever get the chance.
Oh, really, Smoker? You doubt it? Seems there’s plenty of sick fuckery to go around on Reditt these days.
As far as older men having sex with these girls “by accident,” what the fuck? Did they just fall in? CAN NONE OF YOU USE YOUR FUCKING WORDS?
Oh, Smoker. It’d be easier to take the “But what if she looks 18??? And tells me she’s 18??? And shows me a fake ID????” people at face value if that argument weren’t always paired with bullshit like
*Women’s intellect don’t mature, so really, when you think about it, screwing a 12-year-old and a 35-year-old is basically indistinguishable!
*Men are genetically hardwired to prefer 12-year-olds.
*Statutory rape and age of consent laws are a feminist plot to force men to have sex with unattractive old ladies!
And a variety of other statements that make it clear that the people making the arguments are basically against the whole idea of meaningful consent (e.g., pretending that rape never happens and the only reason anyone would ever accuse anyone of rape is because she “regretted” having sex).
For what it’s worth, I’m a person who cannot tell how old people are at all. Like AT ALL. But I can tell if someone’s young or very young. That’s a whole ‘nother thing from walking around complaining about how goddamn unfair life is because there’s all these youngs walking around being all young and shit, and you don’t know which youngs you can have sex with so you should be able to have sex with all of them.
Well Holly, those innocent men were meeting me at my place of work. I was fourteen and working in the local coffee shop alone from three pm to eleven pm most nights. Believe me, I was NOT interested in picking up old men. Yes old men Smoker. Most of the guys there were twenty to fourty years older than me.
Now take a moment to imagine being surrounded by groping leering smut talking women with that age difference. Imagine this is your very first job, and you want to prove you’re responsible and worthy of greater independance. Now imagine wondering if any of that large group of women might take it further or follow you home.
I dealt with the problem one way. Others girls who faced the same problem either tried to go with the flow and not make waves or they quit.
I have never waitressed anywhere that this was not an issue, and when I was a supervisor I made sure that younger women and girls weren’t left to work by themselves.
I have just one word to say, but imagine it in large flashing font scrolling across your screen in HUGE letters:
C R E E P Y!
It is not a problem. No, really it is not a problem that a 14 year old looks a little over 14.
What is a problem is jackasses like you who assume that all teeny boppers are somehow managing to fool old men into sex for the sheer pleasure of seeing men go to jail and that is such a crime that what? A 14 year old should be just told “well it is your own damn fault for looking so mature that this 30 year old tricked you into sex?”
Beyond creepy illiathana, its outright disgusting that some people feel their right to joke trumps a childs right to feel secure or worse, that their right to joke trumps the safety concerns for children who are targeted by men who are actually serious.
Back in 1968 or so: the professor who made a pass at 14 year old me did so at a party hosted by MY FATHER THE DEAN OF HIS COLLEGE where I was passing punch.
There was lots of hearty laughter, and my 12 year old brother was told to protect me–but nobody took it seriously.
Because, well 1968 LIFE PRE-FEMINISM (where I was).
I’d like to add that it is someones fault. Its the fault of adults who like to view and talk about children this way. Its the fault of adults who keep their mouths shut rather than tell perverts to shut up. And its the fault of society, which sexualizes children before they have any real clue as to what it all means or what they want.
@hellkell- Well, no, not with the politically correct police (otherwise known as SRS) constantly breathing down everyone’s backs. It’s obnoxious.
How misandrist to creep-shame men who are just trying to argue that they should be allowed to have sex with 12-year-olds.
It’s because they’re ugly, isn’t it?
Oh yes, because clearly two children are a competant match for a full grown man…not to insult your Dad, but shouldn’t HE have been the one protecting you?
@Pecunium:
The limerick’s a form that is fine
For those of an odd bent of mind:
Twisted, obscene
And occasionally mean
(It helps if you know how to rhyme).
Gawd, we can’t even critique misogyny without the freaking PI Police breathing down our backs!
How are we supposed to have free speech if people keep disagreeing with us?
I mean, I suppose they do call out some good stuff. But Christ, they’re not Reddit’s mother. And their attitude towards MRAs, etc. is pretty nasty. I actually feel like you could make a Shit ShitRedditSays Says about groups they don’t like. The Golden Rule- SRS fails at it.
Seriously- Reddit hates SRS. The pedo groups, the racist groups, r/beatingwomen and SRS are the dregs.
Cool. Go do it.
Find all the times that they say “racism is bad” and “sexism is bad” in a really horrifically bad way that hurts people. EXPOSE THEM TO THE WORLD.
Right. Because pedophilia hurts children, racism hurts people of color, misogyny hurts women, and opposing all of those things… HURTS EVERYONE.
Um, if you fuck a girl who looks 18, says she’s 18, and has a fake ID that says she’s 18, I’m pretty sure that doesn’t count as having a mens rea, which means you can’t get prosecuted for it anyway. Just like you can’t get prosecuted for murder if you had no idea that the shellfish would kill someone!
Oh no, the politically correct police! Say it ain’t so!
I think I actually like the existence of the term “politically correct,” because if someone uses it you automatically know his head is up his ass.
But I’m Bee!
Well, no, just kidding. I’ll change it.
You’ll fit in well here. :)
So…do we actually have two people commenting under the name Bee?
Two Bees or not two Bees, that is the question.
@katz
It appears so.
I shall now be known as….
BLUEBEE
Smoker: What jokes… this one
You’re ugly and no one loves you. Which got 38 total upvotes.
@Cliff Pervocracy – Again, I’m not saying this kind of thing happens all the time. But there exist mature-looking young teenagers- that is, physically mature, not emotionally. They’ll go out to a bar (where, of course, the mangina bouncers will let ‘em in), and later regret their decision.
1: Citation needed. 2: If it’s a special case (you aren’t saying it happens all the time” then what’s the problem? Exceptional circumstances are exceptional
The comments where they are explaining how to make the tools of kidnap and rape something one can explain away to the cops?
Or the guy who’s all upset about how, “jokes about pedophiles” are serious business. He seems to disagree with you about the “innocent nature of such humor”.
Of course there is the comment in the OP, which sums himself up, tl;dr girls will do anything to make you go to jail
Joke right? He didn’t mean it when he said 13 year olds are “fully developed” and can be confused with adults, so you will sleep with them and end up in trouble for an “innocent” mistake, which the girls did on purpose.
Typical woman, didn’t stop talking for 12 years.
Just a “joke” right. Harmless, like saying “all men are rapists”. No harm, no foul. Just like this reply, “You can actually see her turning into a bitch
This one might have been a joke, but it lacks context:
The girl is developing according to plan, we simply have to wait as the delicious fruit ripens. Don’t act like you can’t see the quality of the crop, we all know this will be a fine harvest.
Which is the real problem. There is no context* for the comments. Standing ex nihilo the rational person has to take them as read; barring some additional context being supplied.
And the overall context of a lot of those quotations, is sexualising the subject.
Which is creepy.
I did, actually, try to establish context for the commenters. Let’s just say the evidence is more that they were being serious than not. Like this one a guy posted in response to a self-portrait with cat</a<.You look so god damn skinny I want to pick you up have you hold on and fuck you in the air…….26 yet god damn cute.
Smoker: I’ve seen 9 year olds with like C cup boobs, and obviously it’s easy to tell at that age, but what about when she’s like 15 or 16 and her face has matured?
It’s a problem, and it’s no one’s fault, but it’s a real problem.
It’s a problem all right, and it is someone’s fault. The adult.
If you take a few minutes, you will know the person isn’t old enough to be fucking you.
For 5000 years of recorded history in virtually every diverse culture, it was normal for men to marry girls aged 13 to 16. It’s really only been the last half century or so that men have been vilified for what was considered natural and good since the dawn of time.
The feminist faith simply takes any action or drive a man has and legislates it to be a crime. To imprison men and portray men as evil just make mens natural instincts criminal.
sorry_WHAT is my favorite SRSister.
[in reference to a suicide almost certainly brought on by a false allegation of rape]
Indeed. I feel similarly about “mangina”.
Ozy: Um, if you fuck a girl who looks 18, says she’s 18, and has a fake ID that says she’s 18, I’m pretty sure that doesn’t count as having a mens rea, which means you can’t get prosecuted for it anyway.
Not all crimes require intent. Statutory rape is usually one of those (hence the term statutory). In many jurisdictions being able to prove one had a reasonable belief (usually from external circumstance) can be mitigating, or even exculpatory (e.g. a person who was a regular in a bar, where one has to be 21 to get in), but not always.
Smoker: I’m not saying it’s a good thing to have relations with underage people. I’m saying it’s difficult to tell. This is why we need a marker, or something.
We do. Lot’s of them actually. Conversation helps. If someone can talk about things in the semi-recent past as if they were aware of them at the time (right now I’d say the campaign to choose between Obama and McCain, or the financial crises of 2007/2008), odds are they are at least 18.
You could also ask them. Then you could talk about things like, I don’t know, expectations.
Those are subjects which usually give one an idea of 1: Compatibility and 2: age.
I mean, I suppose they do call out some good stuff. But Christ, they’re not Reddit’s mother. And their attitude towards MRAs, etc. is pretty nasty. I actually feel like you could make a Shit ShitRedditSays Says about groups they don’t like. The Golden Rule- SRS fails at it.
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. You don’t know that, were the situation reversed (that SRS was saying something really nasty, they’d be all defensive about it.
I have to say, my attitude toward MRAs isn’t great. Care to know why?
Because the one’s I see, are women-hating assholes with nothing more than tired grievances about things they failed to understand when they were new (if the MRA in question is old enough to remember when Andrea Dworkin was alive). It’s retreads of myths, lies, and fables, all with the intent of forcing women back to lives of inequality and shaming feminists (male and female) into silence.
Seriously- Reddit hates SRS. The pedo groups, the racist groups, r/beatingwomen and SRS are the dregs.
Then why does it take SRS to get anyone to notice/do anything about them.
Want to convince me the MRM/MRAs aren’t willing to look the other way?
Stop looking the other way.
smoker, why do you consider sorry_WHAT a SRSer? I looked through the past nine days of sorry_WHAT’s posting history and there’s not a single posting to any SRS subreddit; most of the comments are in 2XC.
So SRS has a troll, Smoker. The real question is: do they mostly sound like that, most of the time?
I suppose you could present quotes from NWO as “real quotes from a Manboobz commenter!” if you wanted to play like that. (Oh god no one do this.) But does he reflect the prevailing milieu of this community?
Also I’m kinda all on board with “I’m all for women acting mean and vulgar, but society currently likes to punish women for doing so.”, and I think it’s telling you lumped that in with “feminist terrorism.”
NWO: For 5000 years of recorded history in virtually every diverse culture, it was normal for men to marry girls aged 13 to 16. It’s really only been the last half century or so that men have been vilified for what was considered natural and good since the dawn of time.
Wrong again, as usual.
stics indicate that the mean marriage age for the Elizabethan and Jacobean eras was higher than many people realize. Data taken from birthdates of women and marriage certificates reveals mean marriage ages to have been as follows:
1566-1619 27.0 years
1647-1719 29.6 years
1719-1779 26.8 years
1770-1837 25.1 years
Sorry, Bee! I was Bee, and then WordPress changed its dealie and I was abeegoesbuzz. And then I learned that WordPress would allow me to change my name, so I changed it back to Bee. That’s confusing! :(
We shall have a swarm of bees! And it will be A W E S O M E (just like reddit). Didn’t we used to have a Firebee?
Cooter Bee cannot join our hive, though. Bees have standards, you know.
Smoker:
What would be a good attitude to take toward people who deny that rape or DV is a problem for women and generally demonize and threaten women and blame women for everything?
It’s okay Bee! I’m BlueBee now!
And I like this swarm idea!
What do MRAs think of bees? Since they have that queen and all.
NWO, here again to champion the cause of enslaving women and raping children.
Smoker: That’s one commenter (and I don’t find her on SRS, but 2XC). How is she to the entire collective?
The thing which is different there from here, is that the overall commentariat is 1: truly diffuse, and 2:that the “leadership” Here, feministing, etc.) isn’t making hatred of men the focus of the sites.
Compare that to the content of the sites listed as being, “moderate”, like AVfM. Or the more “mainstream” one’s like The Spearhead.
Apples and oranges. Where is the call for, “fucking men’s shit up”. Where are the comments saying men should have their voiceboxes cut out.
Until you can show me those sites, and that mainstream/moderate feminists (the kind we are always told we ignore when discussing the things the MRM says) are supporting that… your whinging about how “nasty” feminists are, is just that… you being upset that people are talking about the things your movement likes, and condemning them for it.
Cry me a river.
Manboobz is COVERED IN BEES
/Eddie Izzard
Meh, okay, looking at his recent history, maybe sorry_WHAT’s abandoned SRS. He used to post there a lot.
But I’m pretty sure he’s not a troll; he’s for real. And I bring him up because he’s really not that out of line at SRS… only difference is he’s kind of stupid on top of everything else, so he doesn’t couch his bullshit in intelligent-sounding terminology. There are others who aren’t much better, they’re just smarter and avoid coming right out and saying what I’ve quoted above. They just imply it.
I recommend AntiSRS. They get overrun with the r/mensrights guys sometimes, but I’d take them over people like SW.
Also,
Could you elaborate? I generally don’t think that it’s very nice for people to act mean and vulgar.
@Smoker,
I’m 24 years old and still get carded. I don’t know what you’re talking about.
It’s interesting Alex, because in my experience hot young girls actually get carded less than twentysomethings…. because the bouncers want them in the club. They want the twentysomethings, too, but they know they’re of age by looking at them, so no harm done. But if they asked for Sweet Sixteen’s ID, they’d have to turn her away.
It’s about business.
Wouldn’t a mangina bouncer want to protect girls from sexual exploitation?
This “mangina” concept is so flexible!
.
^^ That’s the world smallest violin playing “Hearts and Flowers” for you.
Buzz!
Cliff: Wouldn’t a mangina bouncer want to protect girls from sexual exploitation?
Those mangina’s are helping them oppress men by letting the underage girls seduce normal, manly, men to send them to jail.
It’s not that sex with them is bad, it’s that right now statutory rape laws are a tool of the matriarchy to keep men in their place, and stifle their normal urges.
Can we use our army of bees to defend ourselves? We could totally keep the trolls in line by threatening to unleash bees on them.
@Amused, Ruby, and pillowinhell,
Sorry to hear that happened to you. :(
Oh, you poor, poor babies. It’s so sad that there are people out there that want you to be accountable fo rthe shit you say. I weep for you, truly I do.
I kinda like the PI folks myself–it’s right up there with the use of “female” to let me know that I’m dealing with a complete asshole.
Also, the only reasons a woman would go out in the forest alone in the first place are (a) to deprive some man of sex with her, and/or (b) to find a man who is also alone in the forest, sleep with him, and then (falsely, of course!) accuse him of rape.
Because women have no independent interests in nature or in getting the fuck away from other human beings for a while, natch.
/ sarcasm
I would take MRAs far more seriously if they didn’t come running to the defence of people who rape children. It’s like listening to the Catholics defending rapist priests… if your beliefs mandate that it’s more important to protect abusers than to protect children who are being actively harmed by them, then you seriously need to sit down and think about your priorities.
Aww, poor Reddit people, being mocked just for saying relentlessly stupid and awful things. Won’t somebody think of the pedophiles? Where’s their parade?
The original video is so sweet. I can’t quite wrap my head around the mindset of someone who would react to footage of a child’s face by calling her a bitch and/or making creepy comments about having sex with her, because those are the only ways they can possibly imagine relating to anything female. But I guess it’s all good when you’re on the A W E S O M E website.
And eight year old boys get boners because…
There are moments when I wish it were possible to delay puberty until age 20 for both boys and girls, because it might be easier for young people. As i understand it, there is no way to do that safely.
This discussion reminds of something I heard a grown-up say when I was a teenager, that statutory rape laws were largely intended to protect 16-year-olds from 35-year-olds. 30 years later, the dirty old men still don’t get that children are not adults and adults have to act like adults and be responsible because the child can’t take care of, or fix the mistakes of,an adult.
I know, all of this stuff about, “But sometimes a 9 year old has C cups, so why can’t I have sex with them,” is particularly asshole-ish when you view the video that prompted the discussion and see what is clearly a 12yo girl. No person who isn’t just rationalizing their attraction to children could make the argument that they were fooled into thinking she was 18 or over.
Leaving the chew toy alone for a moment, statutory is ‘usually’ nothing. I mean come now, look at what you quoted, it included a fake ID. Only so much due diligence is ever expected. Defenses to it vary by jurisdiction.
Yes, some crimes don’t require any mens rea, but most require at least negligence. If it can send you to jail directly, it almost certainly requires that much
Um, no, actually, cultures varied wildly, that’s why they’re diverse. Besides, since when do you care what anyone what white people do? Don’t lie to us and act like diversity is great to you now.
I also wish puberty didn’t start so early. i’ve got a picture of myself at 9 years old in a swimsuit. It’s clear that I had already started growing breasts. I’m in a kiddie pool playing with a doll. I remember that being the age in which my mom told me I was getting too old to play with dolls. I think it’s sad when children are hurried out of childhood.
Puberty has nothing to do with sexual maturity. Why do age of consent discussions always center around girls? One, we know the obvious reason because of whose interest that is, but second… let’s discuss boys getting boners at nine. Surely they’re ready. Stop oppressing me.
@pillowinhell — I know that it’s depressingly common for men and boys to harass women and girls. And your waitressing job sounds like something I couldn’t handle. Hugs for you, if you want them.
@Smoker — SRS isn’t Reddit’s mother ?! !! So calling people out for being assholes is presuming the ability to boss them around? Go climb a tree or something, we’ll all have more fun.
@Ithiliana — I wish I could say I was certain that men could no longer harass young girls in front of their parents, and the incident would be laughed off. Sadly, I’m not certain that it wouldn’t happen that way in all cases today.
Rutee Katreya is right, the age at which women and men married in different times and places has varied greatly, and sometimes has been influenced by things like high infant mortality, life expectancy, harsh environment, et c., as well as culture.
Hey Falconer, no worries, that was well over twenty years ago! Now my worries are for my daughter. Beloved has two daughters, and neither of them have had to deal with that kinda crap beyond the odd comment. So I take heart and hope my daughter will have the same good fortune.
As for myself…I’ve developed a bearing that makes few men want to try that approach with me annnnd..despite my youthful looks, I have quite a bit of grey in my hair that seems to render me invisible to asshats. Two years ago I noticed that mysterious drop off in attention. I dyed my hair to cover the grey and voila! More harrassment! Even women thought I was in college. I couldn’t get the dye stripped from my hair fast enough. I’ll take my past due date hair and call it a blessing.
You know what else bothers me about that thread? That everyone focused on her looks, unless it was to say that she talked a lot. You know, I think that little montage says a lot more about her than just “she’ll be a knockout at twenty”and really, is that the only thing that matters? Or how about the “she looked homeless” comment? Because even at nine her most valuable trait is in her percieved beauty? I’m almost tempted to see the one about the dads son just to compare how the commenting differs, if at all. Anyone want to bet on the themes people talk about on that video?
Okay, boys start developing boners at nine. Girls start getting their periods at 10-13 years. Biology is not an on-off switch, any more than at any point during your childhood you developed a sense of self. You did not start speaking fluent English one day when you were a year and a half old. The hormones that start the development of secondary sexual characteristics are slowly turned on over the course of years. You may notice that in 8 year olds with boners or pre-teens with their periods, it’s all over the place. There is not normal function like we would expect from an adult – random erections, irregular periods, etc. Just because a 13 year old can get pregnant does not mean that the rest of her systems are developed enough to accommodate sustaining a pregnancy, going through childbirth, lactation, etc. It is a long process to reach sexual maturity, and boners at nine years old are the system starting to develop.
Just because you’re developing secondary sexual characteristics also does not mean you’re developing a libido or have the mental maturity to be making decisions about sexual relationships with your peers, let alone with adults. Some kids might be sexually active at 13 with other kids and dealing with it well. It’s fallacious to assume that just because someone’s sexually active by choice at 13 (a tiny minority of the population) that all 13 year olds want to be sexually active. If there was an 8 year old who wanted to be sexually active, was physically and mentally mature enough to make that decision, had a willing partner of a similar age with the same characteristics, was not coerced or pressured, and was capable of understanding the consequences of sexual activity including appropriate use of birth control… more power to them, I guess. But I’m willing to be those 8 year olds don’t exist.
*gives Pillowinhell all the hugs*
Once again I’ve fallen in love with the regular commenters here at manboobz. Isn’t it horrifying the lengths abusers will go to okay pedophilia!? I have a middleschooler and every day twice a day I see 11-14 year olds. Not even one of these children look adult. Could it be that some of these skeevy mras see the body of a teen/tween as the body of a woman, ’cause they just don’t know no better? Just maybe they think a little bit of curves is some sign to signify womanhood, but FYI adolescents look like that. We need way super more realistic examples of real looking women in media so freaks can know the difference. Shapeless narrow bodies are highly coveted beauty by cultural standards.
****No, I take it all back–child abusers look for the qualities of pubescence in order to exploit children. There is a special place in hell for child rapists and sympathizers.
Creepy scumbag storytime!
I had B-cups at age 11 and they just kept growing. It sucked so very much. Guys mostly left me alone until I got a job in the county library at 16. (I’m not even cute, by the way. Busty, yes. Cute, no.)
When I was 17, this middle-aged guy started hitting on me while I’m shelving books. I told him I was 17 and it didn’t even faze him; he just kept flirting. Then he asked who my parents were. I told him. He stammered a bit and fled. I asked my dad about the guy later. They had graduated high school together. So in this guy’s mind, it was perfectly okay for a 42-year-old man to hit on a 17-year-old girl, but not the 17-year-old daughter of an old schoolmate. Creep.
“Its about business”. Yup nothin like arms length child prostitution! And look! They don’t even have to pay her!
Smoker:
“I seriously doubt anyone in that thread is an ephebophile.”
The “joke” is not a joke, and has nothing to do with ephebophilia. You don’t know what ephebophilia is. When people use words they don’t understand, it doesn’t actually make them sound smart.
I have some sympathy for ephebophiles; I think they genuinely can’t control who they’re attracted to, at least not on a conscious level.
I have no sympathy for guys who aren’t ephebophiles, but have taken the fetishization of youth and submissiveness and innocence so far that an adult woman just wouldn’t be a big enough ego boost any more.
I watched the original video and read through the comments. The vast majority of the comments were about the artistic merit of the video, or what a beautiful thing for these children to have from their parents etc.
Some of them questioned if the children (there was one made of his? son as well) were wiling participates and how they would deal with the videos latter in life.
I have to call foul David. I don’t know a thing about redit except for what I’ve read here, and this is the first time I’ve followed a link to it. From what I’ve seen in this case it would be more then fair to call out the persons who made the offending comments but the thread itself about the video from what I read was rather heart-warming.
I’m in high school, and no, we don’t look like adults. I have never seen anyone from the ages of 13-15, male or female, who could be interpreted as being in their 20s. Having breasts/curves does not make a teenaged girl look like an adult.
Kavette, he did call out the offensive comments. Nowhere in the OP is the original video being called the problem.