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domestic violence drama evil women hypocrisy idiocy misogyny MRA oppressed men paranoia precious bodily fluids reddit shit that never happened spermjacking TROOOLLLL!!

Guess who got trolled on April Fool’s Day? Hint: It rhymes with “Glen’s Brights Pubreddit”

So it turns out that the heartbreaking yet highly implausible story of attempted spermburgling that got the Men’s Rights subreddit so riled up on the first of the month … was in fact fake.

Mr. ineedhelpnow1234 himself wrote me a note today alerting me to a post on his blog explaining the whole thing, and why he did it. Some highlights:

I wanted to reveal just how twisted these men can be in the pursuit of their agenda so I came up with a story they could not resist. …

The spermjacker trope is irresistible to “men’s rights” activists because they believe they are perfect Darwinian examples of masculinity and as a result are irresistible to the hormonally irrational schemers that make up womankind. Narcissism and misogyny collide to make a toxic brew.

Oh, and I added the twist that this man punched his girlfriend so hard in the stomach that she bruised. Surely such fierce proponents of “gender equality” would not support violence against women. Right?

Well, we all know how that turned out. Ineedhelpnow1234/the blogger Eschatology continued:

The “men’s rights” movement is morally bankrupt. It is made up of people who support hitting women. It is made up of people who refuse to say it is wrong to hit women. It is made up of people who are so paranoid of women that they think people actually talk like this:

You fucking bastard, how dare you punch me for what I’m entitled to! Call me the minute you get this god damn message or I’ll call the fucking police and end your future. CALL MEEEE.

Attention MRA’s: You have all exposed yourselves as rotten human beings and you have discredited your movement (again). …

I wrote this story by stitching together nearly every cliche I have ever come across in the “men’s rights” movement. I tried to see if the MRAs had any line they would not cross. Apparently they do not. Looks like the SPLC made a good call.

Heck, even after they got called out for supporting the (imaginary) puncher,  both here and on Jezebel, and were roundly mocked for believing such an utterly ridiculous tall tale, this is about as close as any Men’s Rights redditor got to criticizing the punch that never was:

He panicked and hit her. Sure he should have just have restrained her and took the condom out of her hands but we’re human and its not like he continually beat her into a pulp.

Yep, no big deal, “its not like he continually beat her into a pulp.”

The comment containing that line got 11 upvotes, and zero downvotes.

The Men’s Rights Movement, beyond the pale — but also beyond parody.

EDITED TO ADD: The Men’s Rights regulars respond to the big reveal here. They are apparently determined to learn absolutely nothing from the whole episode. At the moment this is the most highly upvoted comment:

 

EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: Ineedhelpnow1234/Eschatology posted about this in the TwoXChromosomes subreddit, Naturally, a small horde of r/mensrightsers invaded the thread and pooped all over it.

 

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Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

Nevermind, that’s not it because the date is 2008. It appears to cover very similar ground, however.

Shadow
8 years ago

@Dani Alexis

I see someone else has been endulging in a little Sims 3 besides me 🙂

As far as increasing MRAs fevered dreams, the ones that will take an obvious troll’s words as fact, even after they admit to trolling, are beyond redemption, and might as well serve as entertainment for others.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

it’s always amusing to see how gender essentialist mras are when it comes to even suggesting women can do something better or saying something to paint women in a positive light (ie women are nurturing) The only time they reject gender essentialism and insist on equality is when it comes to painting women as equally violent as men.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

Thanx Quackers. I’ve read all of the literatureon Diap. But, there is no way to convince me that a method of dealing with violence in which only men are subject to the program, presumes that violence is based on “patriarchial assumptions” and entitlement, and then pursues a shame based punitive model that even diap admits; “the National Institute of Justice (NIJ) released Batter Intervention Programs: Where Do We Go from Here? a report suggesting that there was “no benefit from batterer counseling” and that the Duluth Model “did not work.”

You’ll notice that women who are assaultive have “other treatments” – i.e. therapy. But, they state that even if a woman is violent, it’s pretty much the man’s fault anyway.

This is the basis for VAMA and its training programs to judges and police departments. It’s bigoted and outrageous.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Magz

Meh. You’re entitled to your opinions but based on everything I’ve read the claim that DV is totally equal and that women harm men as severely and even kill men in equal numbers is complete BS. Even the NIJ states this. If the Duluth Model is completely useless they would not use it. And there is no way to convince me that there is some mass feminist conspiracy forcing them to because grrr they hate men.

Context is key.

Lady Zombie
Lady Zombie
8 years ago

The men’s rights movement continues to march on, growing bigger.

Indeed it does. Suddenly I’m picturing a parade of really angry clowns in squeaky shoes marching down Main Street, USA thinking that they’re oh so intimidating.

Crumbelievable
Crumbelievable
8 years ago

I’m still baffled as to how the CALL MEEEE!!! comment didn’t tip them off.

Because this is how MRAs think the world works. The idea of a woman being a crazy, evil conniving bitch was readily accepted because MRAs themselves think of women as crazy, evil conniving bitches. The troll post was terrific because of how easily the bait was taken.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

@Quackers, Mags’ citation is apparently in response to that article by Gondolf.

Here’s the link:

http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Dutton-D.G.-Corvo-K.-2007-The-Duluth-Program_-A-flawed-and-data-impervious-paradigm.pdf

Personally, I do not exactly have familiarity with the literature or with the Duluth Model to be able to judge much about this, so I’ll just say that if things are exactly like they say then I might consider their conclusions.

I guess that’s some weekend reading for me!

Mags’ quotation in context:

Gondolf refers to “Duluth-CBT” models. Let’s be clear: Duluth “psychoeducational models” are philosophically incompatible with cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) — the two are contradictory. Duluth believes in gender shaming as an intervention technique. We believe that it is based on an extreme, negative, and polarized view both of men and abusive men. For a review of the bedrock fundamentalist ideology of radical feminism, see Corvo and Johnson (2003). As Pence and Paymar put it in the Duluth manual:

“Using slavery, a colonial relationship, or an oppressively structured workplace as an example, the facilitator can draw a picture of the consciousness of domination.” Pence and Paymar, 1993 (p. 49).

We repeat this here because we feel it is important to know how gender relations are depicted in the Duluth model. This gender paradigm divides the world, in a Manichean fashion into “good “(female) and “bad” (male) based on Marxist notions of the bourgeoisie and proletariat (see Towards a feminist theory of state, Mackinnon, 1989, p.1). A type of socio-cultural “original sin” is imposed on males and all individual motivation and circumstances are rendered trivial in the face of irresistible instructions to serve the patriarchy. The result is a persistent differential attributional set (Kelley & Michela, 1980) for human action; all female transgressions are attributed to previous victimization by a male, all male transgressions are viewed as originating with the male. There are two totally different gestalts for male and female violence. We reviewed studies affirming this in our original article. This is not a “caricature;” this is the philosophical basis of the gender paradigm and the Duluth model.

Honestly I just really envy the name Gondolf. If I were him I would change my middle name to Olorin.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

Ah, Quakers…a student of the Dr. Pangloss school of reasonng? “…all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds”.

katz
8 years ago

Truly, Gondolf is a name worthy to be borne only by the greatest of individuals.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

For what it’s worth, I do think that a legitimate MRM could spread. Issues that men face specifically are worth discussing and solving.

The MRM as it is now though? the angry websites with the misogynist ranting and the calling to revoke women’s right to vote and legislating dating so them hypergamous bitches don’t get out of line? The MRM who stalk feminist bloggers and dig up their personal information and home addresses? the MRM who calls for always voting not guilty on a rape trial regardless of the facts?

Yeah…no way a movement like that is getting big. Unless all men are secretly misogynists and are lacking of all morality, empathy and logic, that is the only way the MRM in their current stage will ever get big. Even neo-cons won’t touch them. That’s saying a lot.

Nanasha
Nanasha
8 years ago

Ya know, when I first read this story, I basically thought that it was idiotic in general. There’s a surefire way to never have a woman take a condom and impregnate herself. Just flush the damn thing down the toilet when you take your post-coital piss (as most men do). Condoms don’t tend to clog the pipes (unless you have really old shitty plumbing), so you’ll be fine.

On top of that, I didn’t honestly feel like I wanted to get pregnant until I was married to my husband for at least a couple of years and had full medical benefits to cover the cost. Even then, a host of fertility issues and other crap led to me waiting a little longer before my husband and I started to unofficially try to conceive. And after years of using hormonal birth control and condoms, we eventually conceived, but it took a long time, and I highly doubt that it’s a “surefire pregnancy” even if you dump a used condom full of sperm (eww, the idea is really…..gross to me, but ok) into your vagina. And by the way, it’s REALLY hard to get the sperm out of the condom (most condoms have spermicide on them/inside of them) and then “get it all the way up against the cervix” within the timeframe before the sperm die or lose mobility.

There is also a totally reversible, all-natural way for men to make themselves infertile. But it involves steaming your scrotum for long periods of time on a regular basis. Apparently, it renders the little swimmers totally inert as long as you do it regularly.

Or, if you don’t like steam, you can simply hold your laptop over your balls for 20 minutes:

http://computingondemand.com/my-laptop-is-birth-control/

So yeah….men can control their fertility more than they think.

And I think it’s basic Good Choices 101 to choose to have sex with people who aren’t dead set on controlling and abusing you, regardless of their sex or gender.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

No one takes the “revoke the right to vote” fools seriously. I have always argued against the stalking that avfm does. I think that there are lots of guys that are hurting and confused, but have no societally accepted way to communicate their pain but through anger. So, I give people a lot of latitude – even feminists.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@Tulgey

I must admit I only skimmed both papers, I have them bookmarked to read more thoroughly. I linked the paper to Gondolth because I wanted Mags and everyone else to see the 2 sides to this debate. Since its a refutation posters and lurkers should see what Dutton and co are refuting.

So yeah, I’m not an expert by any means. I just have a hard time believing that the Duluth model has absolutely no merit. Maybe it just needs revising.

cloudiah
8 years ago

@Quackers/Tulgey, I think this is Dutton’s latest word on the matter:
Donald G. Dutton, The case against the role of gender in intimate partner violence, Aggression and Violent Behavior, Volume 17, Issue 1, January–February 2012, Pages 99-104, ISSN 1359-1789, 10.1016/j.avb.2011.09.002.
(http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178911000942)

(I am trying to get you to do my homework for me. Seriously, I have no background in this area, so I am outsourcing it.)

cloudiah
8 years ago

Of course, that’s behind a paywall because EVIL CAPITALISTS. I sometimes forget I have access to things because I work for a COMMUNIST LIBRARY.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

Wow! you work for a library? that’s awesome. I just signed up for a masters in library and information systems. I want to change careers and become a librarian

cloudiah
8 years ago

Yep, Mags, I am an evil, feminist library person who helps people find information on- and off-line. And yes, it is awesome. Except I hate copyright and licenses, because they prevent me from connecting people with information. ARGLE BARGLE.

Garrett
8 years ago

Child porn is another line they are willing to across, apparently. According to their moderation policy in r/mensrightsmeta, CP is “a challenging topic.” what the fuck is so goddamn challenging about it? Finding it? Managing to beat off despite the tears and what I assume to be a crying kid? Getting it up to that imagery in the first place? Fuck these little clowns.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

Does it really say CP is “a challenging topic?” Oh, that sux. I just became a mod over there.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

The actual quote:

“Child Porn: This is again a challenging topic. Discussion of (in)appropriate punishment for use of child porn, discussions about self produced pornography (i.e. sexting), discussions about whether cartoon images count as child porn, and discussions about mid-teen level “consensual” relationships are allowed. Advocacy for the use of child pornography, even as a way to curb pedophilia, is not condoned. Pornographic images/video of children require the abuse of a child to produce, and thus is not acceptable no matter how much it may curb pedophile urges.”

While I don’t think the paragraph is crafted thoughfully, I don’t think the message is that “child porn is a challenging subject because some people think it’s all right and other disagree and it’s a close call.”

I think they are saying that just mentioning the the phrase child porn is not bannable by itself. There may be a legitimate reason for discussing the subject, but not for lusting after kids.

Shaenon
8 years ago

I think that there are lots of guys that are hurting and confused, but have no societally accepted way to communicate their pain but through anger.

Yeah, okay, I’m bored enough to bite. BULLSHIT.

There is virtually no situation in life so bad that the only way to communicate is through violence and hate. Okay, if you’re Sarah Connor and you have to prevent the robot apocalypse, fine, but everyone else has to use their words.

And the causes of this “hurt” and “confusion” are so pathetic. Your wife walked out? You have to pay child support? The girls in the underwear catalog won’t go out with you? Tough titties. That doesn’t justify throwing an extended tantrum at half the human race.

I hear this “oh, but they’re HURTING SO MUCH, they HAVE to express their SUPER SPECIAL PAIN YOU COULD NEVER UNDERSTAND by attacking innocent people” crap all the time, and you know what I’ve noticed? It’s always used to justify a more entitled group beating on a less entitled group. White supremacists use it to justify hating on black people. Misogynists use it to justify hating on women. Homophobes use it to justify gay-bashing. And their enablers use it to keep the status quo in place.

Fuck that. The world contains enough non-assholes with real problems to keep me busy, thanks.

magdelynswallows
8 years ago

as soon as you said “entitled” i pretty much knew your argument was going to be a polemic. That fact that you don’t care about men, but would take to the streets to help women, is just about as much as i need to know.

the invectives come from both sides.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

The men’s rights movement continues to march on, growing bigger. It influences debate and policy.

it’s actually kind of adorable how despite your record of consummate failure, you morons still believe this

I know. This is creatard level of stupid.

cloudiah
8 years ago

@Mags, Why do you feel the need to justify the behavior of abusive assholes? And why do you think people who criticize abusive assholes “don’t care about men?” Some of us criticize abusive assholes no matter the gender, and don’t make excuses because they’re “hurting and confused.”

Shaenon
8 years ago

as soon as you said “entitled” i pretty much knew your argument was going to be a polemic. That fact that you don’t care about men, but would take to the streets to help women, is just about as much as i need to know.

I didn’t say I would help women and not men. It’s interesting that you agree men are the more entitled group in this situation, even as you mock the idea of even talking about entitlement.

mythago
8 years ago

There’s a surefire way to never have a woman take a condom and impregnate herself.

Yep: have sex only with other men. One wonders why MRAs don’t advocate this more often.

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

@Mags, Why do you feel the need to justify the behavior of abusive assholes? And why do you think people who criticize abusive assholes “don’t care about men?” Some of us criticize abusive assholes no matter the gender, and don’t make excuses because they’re “hurting and confused.”

I agree. For example, many feminists here on this site criticize Jezebel for its misandric and air-headed posts. Holly criticized Cracked.com on its whole “men are essentially more horny” etc. stuff (the Topic is Manboobz.freeforums). And when frustrated posters go too far in their comments other members will tell them its not cool.

And on YouTube as far as I know many prominent feminists there make it very clear that they are not radical feminists. And they are very critical of radical feminists like the infamous nuclearnight, who once bullied a man who had been raped because they disagreed on some trivial topic. Other radical feminists rebuked are Andrea Dworkin and Gail Dines.

Some even support “moderate MRAs” like Warren Ferral. I personally don’t agree with everything he says but he addresses men’s issues in a way that is constructive and intelligent and he wishes for both men and women to escape from harmful and restrictive gender roles.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

So far, even the briefest of forays into the MRM via r/mensrights reveals it to be a den of misogyny, inverted priorities, and lack of critical thinking. I’m Whiffling_Tulger here:

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/rvp5f/ryan_gosling_saves_feminist_from_being_run_over/

You’ll notice my comment quoting the person whom the OP both concerns and pretty blatantly lies about has 0 points, and other voices of reason are consistently downvoted, while comments that simply agree with the OP and/or openly wish for Laurie Penny’s death are consistently upvoted.

How does this “movement” expect to gain traction when it is aggressively anti-reason?

A.A Syzygy
8 years ago

This whole situation just keeps getting better and better.

Now, the MRAs are flooding everything related to it in order to squawk about how, of course, they didn’t believe the post. I kept an eye (a very amused one) on that post and nearly all of them were doing exactly as Eschaton described: lapping it up ferociously and calling any Evil Feminazi (re: non MRA) a horrible person and a victim blamer for noticing not only the date, but the beautifully crafted and ludicrous content of the post. They called SRS misandrists, etc for saying there’s no way that post was true. Now we’re misandrists because thanks to their embarassment- they’d like to pin the blame on us somehow. If just by proxy.

Shaenon
8 years ago

I thought of this stuff because I was reading an article about the modern Ku Klux Klan (which is about 60 really pathetic people), and they used almost exactly the same reasoning and excuses. “Sure, I’m hate-filled and bigoted and threaten violence against innocent people, but I have to be this way! Society has forced me! Because black people! I’m the victim here!”

Maya Lovelace
Maya Lovelace
8 years ago

@Tulgey

Because most people simply aren’t appealed to by reason. A visceral reaction is much more effective.

Tulgey Logger
Tulgey Logger
8 years ago

A single mensrights thread makes me appreciate Manboobz about ten times more.

I mean seriously: you guys are awesome, and they are aggressively crummy.

NEVER LET ME TAKE YOU FOR GRANTED AGAIN!

skiriki
8 years ago

I think that there are lots of guys that are hurting and confused, but have no societally accepted way to communicate their pain but through anger.

What happened to country and blues? Did they go extinct when I wasn’t looking?

makomk
makomk
8 years ago

Timid Atheist: the sperm stealing wasn’t rape. The bit where he claimed that his girlfriend was trying to blackmail him into having unprotected sexual intercourse with him by threatening to have him arrested if he didn’t – which David Futrelle completely omitted to mention – was the attempted rape.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Vast majority of men (and mra’s) against violence against women.

The vast majority of MRAs (don’t throw innocent men in with that lot) are only against random violence against women. They’re against violence that has no justification.

But as soon as you throw in even the flimsiest, goofiest whisper of a possible excuse–she was fighting him for custody, she was going to spermjack him, she was uppity and mouthy, she acted in an offensive play, she wanted to be equal to men–then they’re all for violence.

They say “I wouldn’t hit a woman… unless I was provoked,” but fucking everything a woman does provokes them.

Anthony Zarat
8 years ago

Meanwhile, neither the boob lord nor his flock could offer any response to this question:

We both know that the April fool’s theft was a hoax. However ..

As a thought experiment, what legal recourse did that young man have at the moment that his (fake) GF was running off with his (make believe) genetic material in order to impose a (nonexistent) 18 year sentence of indentured servitude?

You say a tummy punch is the WRONG thing to do. Fine. What is the RIGHT thing to do?

I don’t agree with violence, and I think anyone who condones the tummy punch is misguided (if anyone really believed the April fool’s joke, which I doubt). However, the (fake) story has made me think. What should a young man do (if such a thing really happened)?

What do YOU think? And what about your flock? What do THEY think?

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Makomk – The blackmail happened after he’d punched her. (Also it’s a moot point because it’s a story made up specifically to troll MRAs, and none of this happened. Except the MRAs going “YAY AN EXCUSE TO PUNCH A WOMAN.”

AntZ – The right thing to do is nothing, because the odds of her getting pregnant that way are astronomical.

The right thing to do if she does is get a lawyer.

But if it makes you feel better, it’s okay to punch women who wear green shirts on a Thursday and use the word “irregardless” too much. Because I know you need some loophole, right?

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

1. Point out sperm are extremely fragile and that her chances of getting pregnant from a condom of jizz is nearly nil.
1a. Stall her and persuade her to drop the used condom. Gently, using words and similar arguements to 1. Dispose of condom.
2. Break up with her and never see her again.

Creative Writing Student
Creative Writing Student
8 years ago

I kinda based step 1 and 1a on how my partner gets me to put the computer down when I’m getting a bit obsessive. Step 2 for obsessive computer use is slightly excessive.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Also, for the millionth time, guys, $300/month for a literally 24/7 job? Not exactly a jackpot.

Paying $300/month in exchange for 24/7 care of your child, payable only if you can, not actually collected in more than half of cases? Not exactly indentured servitude.

AndersH
AndersH
8 years ago

I thought of this stuff because I was reading an article about the modern Ku Klux Klan (which is about 60 really pathetic people), and they used almost exactly the same reasoning and excuses. “Sure, I’m hate-filled and bigoted and threaten violence against innocent people, but I have to be this way! Society has forced me! Because black people! I’m the victim here!”

I think it’s perfectly possible to hold people responsible for their actions while at the same time identifying social issues that might be one of the underlying causes for those actions being more or less prevalent. For instance, I think many men are ill-served by the standards of toxic masculinity we are subjected to, which may well lead to a higher incidence rate of violence than there would otherwise be.

indifferentsky
8 years ago

AntZ…

If this was a real scenario… let me even change it up a bit…
I tell some guy that I am going to force him to bring a child into the world against his will… and one punch could stop that…

ABSOLUTELY he should punch to me stop that.
I didn’t bother commenting on that aspect because the whole thing is bullshit. Also taking a condom to get pregnant, I doubt that even works.

But yes, if I were to force someone to be parent to a child knowingly and completely against their will. That violence in my opinion is justified, and especially one punch.

It’s a LIFE. It’s forcing someone to be a parent against their will. It is a violation that would be tough to find a good analogy for, and one that justifies force. I’m not talking about when unprotected sex was had, I’m talking about a sperm stealing situation, if that could be done. I think it’s very very serious. It’s life. If someone got a woman pregnant and forced her to term, same thing. If that could be stopped with one punch, same thing.

I take having children very seriously and producing children very seriously, I’m actually an anti natalist.

Anthony Zarat
8 years ago

@ indifferentsky

Thank you for your honesty.

I actually don’t know what I would do. If I lived in Britain, I could use a new law called the “Human Tissue Act”, which ironically was passed by feminists to prevent “fathers” from obtaining paternity tests. In this situation, the mother would be liable for 50,000 a pounds fine and 5 years in prison, which means the father-by-force could at least (probably) get custody of his child.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

So it is said that MRA is a fringe movement, without any real influence.

But then it is said that there is a backlash against women’s rights.

How can this be possible?

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Talacaris: There have been social backlashes against women’s rights for over a century–LOTS of them.

The MRA is an extremist minority that takes the existing ideologies and magnifies them and spews them out openly–that is, they are NOT the only element of society that is against women’s rights.

It’s like how Rick Santorum says openly what the rest of the Republican politicians are too savvy to say straight out!

Ithiliana
8 years ago

@Telacaris: Also using the syntax “is it said” is total bullshit.

If somebody says or writes something, attribute it.

talacaris
talacaris
8 years ago

Well at least they are somewhat open and honest about theit hatred, partial credit??

“If somebody says or writes something, attribute it.”

Is this a scholarly journal or something? No, so there is no need for proper citations. Besides, both backlashes and MRM influence can be considered common knowledge.