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Brother JohntheOther Mansplains it All For You: Rebecca Watson misrepresentation edition.

Blabbity blabbity blab.

Check out this post from PZ Myers, tearing apart a sleazy JohntheOther video about Rebecca Watson. In the video, JtO, the number two man at A Voice for Men, declared Watson a sociopath for allegedly mistreating a “handler” assigned to her at a Skepticon convention.

Trouble is, Watson’s “mistreatment” never actually happened, and her public recounting of her (wholly imaginary) selfish behavior was part of a good-natured prank, with the humor directed not at her handler but at herself and the conference organizer. The handler was of course in on the joke. It would seem that JtO either misunderstood the joke, or simply decided to misrepresent what happened in order to make Watson look like a sociopath.

Are there any truly honest MRAs out there? At this point I cannot think of a single one.

JtO, evidently stung by the criticism, has made the video in question private. And he’s made another video responding to the criticism from Myers, Watson, and the handler from the convention itself.

In the video, he offers his own explanation for why he missed the obvious fact that Watson was making a joke: he claims he didn’t actually watch enough of the original Rebecca Watson video to get to the punchline of her joke before making his diagnoses of her. That might seem to reflect poorly on JtO’s research skills. But he’s not overly troubled by this, evidently. “My bad,” he says, cheerfully.

But he still thinks she’s a sociopath, and argues that the criticism he’s gotten doesn’t stem from his complete misrepresentation of Watson’s joke, but because he’s “struck a nerve.” Then he babbles on about various other crap including Jessica Valenti and weapons of mass destruction and, well, I wasn’t really paying much attention at that point. He ends by calling PZ Myers “Sunshine.”

Here’s that video. I watched the whole fucking 11 minutes and 11 seconds of it. I wouldn’t really recommend that to anyone. You only have to watch about 11 seconds of it to conclude, correctly, that JtO is an ass.

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Posted on March 18, 2012, in a voice for men, douchebaggery, lying liars, MRA. Bookmark the permalink. 60 Comments.

  1. Just what the world needs, yet more YouTube blabbity blabbity blah… in a few short months it will be the anniversary of Elevatorgate the Rebeccapocalypse, and in that year millions of words have been spilt in anger by MRAs lackwits, triggering undending cycles of argument and rebuttal by feminists and sceptics. Not a-fucking-gain.

    Is it too much to hope for a transcript of JohnTheBother’s logorrhea so that I don’t have to watch this tripe?

  2. the last 2 minutes were really insightful….

  3. BTW, as he didn’t conduct a formal interview with Ms. Watson and he is not a psychologist I don’t think he should be making an armchair diagnosis…

    and I think that’s a bit dishonest to do, just like some bloggers who take part of what some people say, put it in quotes, then say things they did not say after it and use a flashing button for sarcasm….

    Neither an MRA or feminist ever shall I be!

  4. You’d almost think they’ve decided that Rebecca Watson is some kind of succubus.

  5. I started listening, but my brain shut down after a minute, outof boredom.

  6. thebewilderness

    I could not bring myself to hit the play button because he is very pale and I suspect him of being a zombie and I fear that if I hit the play button he will reach through the interwebs and try to eat my lady brainz.

  7. Transcript of the first 2 min. Too bad there are diacritical marks for douchebaggery.

    It appears that RW’s fans, followers and admirers have either found, or have been directed to find, my video making fun of RW in the introduction to one of her presentations at Skepticon 3, I believe. In which she tells a story about abusing a personal assistant who is assigned to her and i point out that this is sociopathic behaviour. Now I’m going to freely admit that I came into that video, the original one, the hourlong presentation one, with a predisposed impression that RW is a *shudders* a awful person. And so I watched as far as I needed to get the clips that I was using. I didn’t watch farther cause I thought this is awful, this is fuckin horrible and I don’t want to keep watchin this because this is making me feel terrible. I subsequently watched the rest of it and yeah, she comes out and admits it. (raises hand) My bad. And even though she comes out says yes, this was all a staged prank, um, this doesn’t materially change my impression of her, I’m sorry to say.
    but something about the way I have been piled on tells me that I’ve struck a nerve, that I’ve pushed on a nerve and the vehemence of the reaction is a little overblown for somebody who is just being critical and who made a criticism that is off base. Because there’s like…I’m a psychopath, I’m a sociopath, I’m a maniac, I’m a murderer, I’m humourless, I’m stupid, I’m irrational, etc, etc. The my position is irrelevant, that, I mean there’s lots of abuse and piling on.

  8. And that’s all I can do. My ladybrainz are in mortal danger. (Dear god man, you’re wordy.)

  9. I’ve struck a nerve, that I’ve pushed on a nerve and the vehemence of the reaction is a little overblown for somebody who is just being critical and who made a criticism that is off base. Because there’s like…I’m a psychopath, I’m a sociopath, I’m a maniac, I’m a murderer, I’m humourless, I’m stupid, I’m irrational, etc, etc. The my position is irrelevant, that, I mean there’s lots of abuse and piling on.

    So, I think it’s a safe bet that the irony of this lost Mr. The Other, no?

  10. No one cares, stoner.

  11. Oh an MRA who is also a liar? I would be shocked, but it is apparent that lying is what MRAs do best.

    Also, trolling for website hits is just sad, stoner.

  12. that’s fine Dracula….

  13. thebewilderness

    So, he is saying that people noticed that his pants were on fire? And told him so. What nerve.

  14. Hmm…

    The Men’s Rights Movement should instead be the Bitter Asshole’s Movement.

    Bitter Asshole Activists unite!

  15. Ever noticed that the people who hate women the most are always middle aged and old men. I wonder why…

    Are there any truly honest MRAs out there? At this point I cannot think of a single one.

    Neither can I. Their popularity just proves how ingrained misogyny actually is in our culture and how far you can go by appealing to people’s prejudices, fears, and hatred.

  16. But he still thinks she’s a sociopath, and argues that the criticism he’s gotten doesn’t stem from his complete misrepresentation of Watson’s joke, but because he’s “struck a nerve.”

    Holy shit, I can hear pharyngula howling their ass off from here, and I haven’t even looked at the site the last couple days XD

    And yawners, Stoner is back to try to place himself as a ‘moderate’. Because “Women are people” is just 2 XTREEEEM, apparently XD

  17. Ever noticed that the people who hate women the most are always middle aged and old men.

    I haven’t seen any evidence of that. Younger people rank among our most bitter trolls.

  18. Their popularity just proves how ingrained misogyny actually is in our culture and how far you can go by appealing to people’s prejudices, fears, and hatred.

    Quick note, they’re actually not popular. They’re a tiny internet movement with no traction anywhere XD

  19. Do misogynists run seminars on fauxpologies? Or do they just get issued a gene for it? Do we have an evopsych theory on this?

  20. Crumbelievable

    The Men’s Rights Movement should instead be the Bitter Asshole’s Movement

    MRA = Misogynistic Raging Asshole

  21. Crumbelievable

    Quick note, they’re actually not popular. They’re a tiny internet movement with no traction anywhere XD

    A HuffPo article from last week said that MRAs successfully campaigned to block a certain measure of VAWA. Is this true? Or was the author just giving the MRM too much credit?

  22. Quick note, they’re actually not popular. They’re a tiny internet movement with no traction anywhere XD

    If that is true then why are antifeminist videos (and videos with a lot of bigotry and misinformation) so popular on YouTube? Why does being a stupid, misogynistic troll appeal to so many people?

  23. A HuffPo article from last week said that MRAs successfully campaigned to block a certain measure of VAWA. Is this true? Or was the author just giving the MRM too much credit?

    Sharculese has covered this before. The short version: The line was removed during an absurdly early draft stage, *when tons of shit gets cut for tons of reasons*. Even if it was them (Implausible; remember, these assholes can’t get 50 people together), that’s not an accomplishment. That shit gets cut *all the time*. However much they crow over how they’re responsible, even if it were true, it isn’t a victory at that stage. At all.

    But I consider it more plausible that they overblew their own importance, yet again XD

    If that is true then why are antifeminist videos (and videos with a lot of bigotry and misinformation) so popular on YouTube

    Antifeminism has been popular for the last century and a half. What kind of stupid question is this?

    Why does being a stupid, misogynistic troll appeal to so many people?

    …Because we’re in a deeply misogynist culture that doesn’t question stupid, misogynist bullshit. It’s why feminism is still important in the west too, remember? Unless the MRM is directly responsible for the entrenching of dudes in positions of power millenia ago, they have almost as much responsibility for this as I do for the seasonal trade winds.

  24. Crumbelievable

    @Maya:

    You shouldn’t confuse Internet popularity with real life popularity. This what MRAs want you to think. Online, it’s easy for assholes to get attention because ythey can say any inflammatory thing they want and not face repercussions. The Internet is a great place for MRAs to flourish because they’re allowed to say misogynistic things and make vague threats without having to deal with the real world where their brand of shit doesn’t fly so well. Imagine telling someone to their face, “The idea of fucking up your shit gives me erection”. You’d be laughed at, and maybe face a restraining order.

    MRAs might seem popular on Youtube but what’s important is that that’s the height of their success.

  25. He shoulda just said, “I fucked up. I got it wrong. My apologies.”

  26. “My point still stands!”

    Hmm, all the trolls are beginning to merge into one big, trolly pudding.

  27. magdelyn: he should have. But this kind of good and simple apology is rare.

  28. Hahahaha….I can’t stop laughing at that screencap David…good catch!

    @Crumbelievable

    I dunno, I kinda agree and don’t. I’ve thought a lot about this and I don’t know if I can agree that internet popularity doesn’t count. I see tons of misogyny online, not just from MRAs, and it’s never called out. And when it is the person who calls it out is attacked, usually with more misogyny. If I may quote Seymour from Ghost World “people still hate each other but they just know how to hide it better”

    Online it’s hidden through anonymity. And while it may be illegal to discriminate against women people have no problem expressing their hate or true beliefs for us online. Its depressing and honestly I’m hesitant to date because of it :/

    Not to mention that people like Tucker Max and Dick Masterson can make careers out of being misogynists…

  29. Crumbelievable

    But JtO thinks feminists are like Nazis, so he’d be apologizing to a Nazi! And apologizing to Nazis is totally uncool.

  30. Crumbelievable

    @Quackers:

    I understand what you mean. Obviously, the massive volume of Internet misogyny can’t be divorced entirely from reality, since those are real people saying those things. I just think it can be really easy to start thinking that those hateful people and websites are all that’s out there.

  31. What did I just watch?

  32. I left a pretty big rant on that channel when the video was posted, which he disarmed easily, however he never addressed the reason I was actually pissed off; he lied. This was my fault because I wasn’t concise and to the point… He lied.

    This is a guy who makes a living on Youtube and Radio enticing peoples emotions, he’s basically here to direct anger at people, he lied to entice his mob against Rebecca, that makes me angry. Sure if he found out Rebecca kicked cats and spat on homeless people and called his mob out on that I’d still be disturbed but I couldn’t complain, his followers have a right to get angry at whatever they want. All I asked was that he at least tell the truth.

    Oh and the White Knight/Mangina in me might have been a little annoyed because I know how “Psychopathic Bitches” are treated on his show, what I didn’t know was that the Psycho bar went from “I’ma Cut Ur Penis Off” too “Harmless Joke”

    Anyway I’m looking forward to watching Red Pill tonight, Maybe I’ll get made fun of for being an idiot! Xenu knows they have nothing better to talk about.

  33. Sharculese has covered this before. The short version: The line was removed during an absurdly early draft stage, *when tons of shit gets cut for tons of reasons*. Even if it was them (Implausible; remember, these assholes can’t get 50 people together), that’s not an accomplishment. That shit gets cut *all the time*. However much they crow over how they’re responsible, even if it were true, it isn’t a victory at that stage. At all.

    Longer version: there was a line inserted in the draft of the re-authorization for VAWA (and VAWA will be re-authorized, no sane person thinks anything differently) that would have turned the department of education’s advice that college disciplinary hearings on sexual assault should use a ‘preponderance of the the evidence’ standard into law. a bunch of MRAs wrote angry e-mails to patrick leahy’s office and that line got struck before the draft was even presented to a committee. so, yes, MRAs may have achieved something, but what they achieved was getting a single provision struck from a pre-draft version of a re-authorization bill for a law that everyone knows is gonna be re-authorized. they’re claiming that means that VAWA is in danger, but there isn’t any actual evidence to support that.

  34. @Maya:

    You shouldn’t confuse Internet popularity with real life popularity. This what MRAs want you to think. Online, it’s easy for assholes to get attention because ythey can say any inflammatory thing they want and not face repercussions. The Internet is a great place for MRAs to flourish because they’re allowed to say misogynistic things and make vague threats without having to deal with the real world where their brand of shit doesn’t fly so well. Imagine telling someone to their face, “The idea of fucking up your shit gives me erection”. You’d be laughed at, and maybe face a restraining order.

    MRAs might seem popular on Youtube but what’s important is that that’s the height of their success.

    I agree. MRAs wouldn’t last one minute in the real world.

    Not to mention that people like Tucker Max and Dick Masterson can make careers out of being misogynists…

    B-But don’t you see Quackers! Max and Matterson are Politically Incorrect ironists! You can spout as many offensive and ignorant things you want (even if you think it’s all bullshit) if it’s in the name of “wit”. You would’t want to be the PC Police spoiling all the fun, would you?

    Don’t you dare think there are women that could make a living being misandrists! A woman who actually did that would be smeared with enough mud by the media to make her indistinguishable from a pig for her entire lifetime. And if that lifetime “accidentally” comes to an end from any offended men or stalkers, it’s her fault. That feminazi pig should’ve shut her mouth and known her place like a proper woman. She would be proof of how bitchy women are and how it was a mistake for men to let them out of the kitchen.

    /huge sarcasm reminder

    But seriously, that scenario would actually happen if a woman decided to be the reverse Dick Materson. A culture that tolerates professional misogynist trolls like Dick Matterson but would stigmatize and ostracize a female counterpart is hardly a misandrist culture. People who say there is no widespread misogyny must have been lobotomized.

    Hmm, all the trolls are beginning to merge into one big, trolly pudding.

    Good. That means all the crap is easier to spot and sterilize.

    Anyway I’m looking forward to watching Red Pill tonight

    TAKE THE RED PILL AND LEARN THE PROPAGANDA!!!!!!!!!1111

    OOPS!!!! I MEAN THE TRUTH!!!!! I MEAN THE TRUTH!!!!!!!

    In reality, MRAs shit on the truth in general and the deep truths communicated by the Matrix Trilogy.

  35. @Maya

    Yea, I just find it entertaining, I also listen to a conspiracy radio called Coast to Coast AM, but I’m considering cancelling my subscription now that the MRA is so engrossed in tin foil hat land

  36. Yeah this whole thing was funny. Awhile back he did a super melodramatic rant about a video came called whack your boyfriend he found on his android phone. He said now in the darkest crazy recesses of anyone’s brain do they imagine that a video game abusing a woman would be on android? (promoted by something that popular). Where the goal was just to abuse the woman? Problem is that the game involves both boyfriend and girlfriend with an arsenal of weapons to abuse each other. Also the male choices are arguably worse. The female poops on the male once, while he has a gun with a tube directly from his butt and this poop weapon continually shoots rounds of live poop coming from his crack all over her.

    The whole thing is absurd. But he went on the violin playing grandstanding melodrama call to action that if anyone downloads that game (any woman), she should be shut out of the other’s life completely. And NO explanation will do. I mean come on john, not even an educational conversation? He’s so hysterical.

  37. According to his logic, let’s list things here that “must have hit a nerve”

    1. Rebecca thinking elevator dude was sexist.
    2. Makers of SCUM manifesto film.
    3. Woman blogger that didn’t want men helping her daughter at preschool during potty time.
    4. The SPLC! WOOT!
    5. Whack Your Boyfriend

    That’s just off the top of my head. Also the downrating of his RW video confirms all his opinions on RW, according to him. There’s more sound logic.

  38. Kyrie:

    magdelyn: he should have. But this kind of good and simple apology is rare.

    Which is why when Antz did it recently, I made a point of praising him for it.

    Same with MRAL, in fact, but that wasn’t a real apology – but Antz’s one really did (and does) seem genuine.

  39. Off Topic,

    But has anyone seem what happened in England lately? Some MRA dudes have attacked a mom’s website for “gender hatred”. This is really weird.

    http://liberalconspiracy.org/2012/03/16/fathers4justice-launch-bizarre-attack-on-mumsnet/

  40. Although Mumsnet is technically “a mom’s website”, it’s also massive – according to Wikipedia, they have two million unique users, get five million hits a day and 25,000 new comments are posted daily.

    So I strongly doubt that “gender hatred” is being promoted at an editorial level.

    In fact, I suspect F4J (which is several orders of magnitude smaller than the Mumsnet user base) have simply targeted them on Mother’s Day hoping for loads of publicity from the ensuing furore.

  41. @Happy

    yeah i saw the f4j ad and went to mumsnet to have a peek around to figure out what the fuss was. Time was, as a first time mum, i hung about mumsnet and i don’t remember anything untoward there, just a bunch of parents sharing tips and support. of course, it doesn’t mean because i can’t remember it, it wasn’t there. but…mumsnet? c’mon. i even went to various F4J websites and found nothing.

    but of course, mumsnet…misandric title.

  42. I assume this is all just followup misogyny to Elevatorgate, because Rebecca Watson shall forever be tarred with the name of Woman Who Dared To Say Something Made Her Uncomfortable.

  43. So now JtO has qualifications to be diagnosing mental illness or “sociopathic tendencies?

    Where did he get these qualifications?

    The guy”s just vilifying Watson and I’m getting really fed up with this shit.

  44. @Wetherby
    @BigMomma

    I guess F4J are a lot like a lotta MRAs – the need for attention is bigger than the dedication to the cause. Who knows. These groups seem to attract the wrong sort of people.

  45. I wish John the Other was possessed by Lucrezia Mongfish. He’d be much more bearable and competent that way.

    (+10 web comic reference)

  46. It’s standard operating procedure with F4J – similar stunts have included throwing flour at Tony Blair during a session in the House of Commons, and scaling the walls of Buckingham Palace, something they’re unlikely to repeat after the police made it clear that next time they pulled a stunt like that they’d be shot down.

  47. Just checked out the mumsnet thing. MRAs angry because they aren’t getting custody of the kids. So the relavant point is made that if mom has been the primary caregiver its more likely she’ll get custody if it comes to a dispute.

    Beloved has two daughters. He’s turned down good job offers because the commute time would seriously interfere with his ability to care for his children. At his current work, his career has proceeded much more slowly because he refuses to work insane hours and he knows he’ll never get to the top positions. These are sacrifices he’s deliberately made for the well being of his children, and he has an evenly split custody with their mother. Now, why aren’t fathers rights groups fighting to have more reasonable work weeks so they can be more of a presence in their childrens lives? Oh, right, because that would require major re education of the public, a shift in cultural values and many years of fighting to make sure that laws were either changed or enforced. A few decades of work there.

    Much easier to vent at parents who’ve made sacrifices in terms of pay and careers to be there for their children.

  48. Actually, what annoys me most about this is that this game is RIGGED.

    He lies; people dogpile him. Ergo, HE MUST BE RIGHT! Because he “hit a nerve.” But if he lied and nobody spoke to him, he’d STILL be right, because nobody told him otherwise!

    There’s no way to win.

    –Rogan

  49. @pillowhell “Beloved has two daughters. He’s turned down good job offers because the commute time would seriously interfere with his ability to care for his children. At his current work, his career has proceeded much more slowly because he refuses to work insane hours and he knows he’ll never get to the top positions. These are sacrifices he’s deliberately made for the well being of his children, and he has an evenly split custody with their mother.”

    Just some commentary… this is the life of mothers. Then mothers get taunted for not climbing ladders. So feminism has pushed for equal parenting. That’s what gave me a sick feeling when I ran into MRAs I could not understand why they were saying otherwise regarding feminism, like it was some feminist plot to… and then it sunk in… oh… these guys are abusers. The women’s issues fights become way different when there’s abuse involved. Sure enough. I had met the abuser’s lobby. I still remember that chilling feeling the more I learned. Hit me at different times.

  50. Crumbelievable

    So now JtO has qualifications to be diagnosing mental illness or “sociopathic tendencies?

    A guy who endorses murdering radfems as an act of vigiliante justice is clearly the best person to judge others’ mental states.

  51. Boom boom I’m all too aware that these are often the decisions made by mothers. I had to quit my well paid job because the hours pretty much garenteed I’d never be home for my daughter. I now have a job that siuts my being a single parent and I consider myself fortunate. I’m sure that many parents regardless of gender find themselves in tough situations where they have to choose between being paid decently or being with their children. I think society would benefit immensly from finding waysa to accommodate the needs of all parents.

  52. Four seconds, actually. I needed four seconds of video to conclude that JtO was an ass. Economical!

  53. It’s really hard to believe that these assholes are still howling about Rebecca Watson and Elevatorgate. Especially when you consider it was all over 4 little words.

    “Guys, don’t do that.”

    How horrible! How terrible! What a hideous person she is! How dare she tell men what to do! She is the worst person who has ever lived! She must be destroyed!

    Really? Seriously?

    I didn’t expect differently from MRAs and other misogynistic losers, but what was very disheartening was the backlash from the atheist and freethinker (ha!) community. It just proved to me how sexist the community really is.

    But now I’m genuinely creeped out for Rebecca. Every time she posts a blog update, or a video, or another podcast, these fuckwits swarm. I’m worried about her safety. She goes to the same conferences and rallies that a lot of these assholes attend (not MRAs, but the angry, sexist, atheist men). I believed she’s also had her docs dropped.

    JtO is a slimeball and a liar. Big surprise. But even when he gets pwned, he comes back with some bullshit like, “Why do they try so hard to prove me wrong? Is it because they know I’m right? I think it is.” Then smiles that weaselly little smile of his.

  54. Bold text fail. Sorry ’bout that.

  55. What a stunningly unappealing person he is. Wherever he isn’t bloated, he’s chosen to be greasy.

  56. All these months and months and MONTHS of ranting and raving and threatening and whining and calling names, and you know what, dudes? Women still won’t have sex with you if you proposition them in an elevator at two in the morning after they’ve spent the previous six hours talking about how they don’t want to be propositioned.

    Life’s cruel, I know. Poor babies. Cry it out.

  57. Actually, what annoys me most about this is that this game is RIGGED.

    He lies; people dogpile him. Ergo, HE MUST BE RIGHT! Because he “hit a nerve.” But if he lied and nobody spoke to him, he’d STILL be right, because nobody told him otherwise!

    There’s no way to win.

    –Rogan

    “This game is rigged.” Is the best way to describe what women and people who support women’s rights have to put up with.

  58. Yeah. JtO whole tirade in combination with elevatorgate puts me in mind of Twisty Fasters “International Accords Governing the Fair Use of Women”. So Holly, I quite agree with your Woman Who Dares assessment.

  59. You know what’s funny? Everything that MRA’s claim feminism has caused is usually an issue that feminism is trying to deal with.

    Male survivors of DV and SA: do you know how much money the gov’t gives to DV shelters? Not a lot. And in my area, half of the DV shelters will accept male-identified folks. But look at it from the perspective of the shelter – they’re trying to keep a safe, confidential space for a group of abused people. Specifically, a group of abused women who were abused by men. Ideally, we would be able to have some men-only DV shelters, but considering that DV shelters and crisis lines get their budgets cut a little bit more every year, and increasingly have to rely on private donations, grants, and fundraisers, THERE ISN’T ENOUGH MONEY. Plus, most of the DV shelters in my area opened their doors to male-identified persons specifically b/c of the issue of women with teenage boys. Yes, it is fucked up to tell a mother that she can stay at the shelter, but her son cannot. They are attempting to rectify this.

    Male circumcision: find me a feminist organization that supports circumcision, and I will give you $10. PS: a little radfem blog in the corner of the internet ranting about the dangers of penises does not count. Aside from Jewish (and maybe Catholic?) people, who actually supports circumcision anymore? Haven’t doctors pretty much proved that it’s useless and cruel?

    Male parenting: yeah, feminists have been trying to convince the government and society at large that paternity leave is a good thing.

    Also, @stonerwithaboner: you know you’ve got a dick emoticon on your website, right? I don’t think you’re quite the free-thinking maverick you want people to think you are.

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