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Tom Martin’s “anti-male discrimination” case against the London School of Economics dismissed; he responds by calling his critics “whores.”

Hard wooden chairs: Enemy of men?

Tom Martin, a former gender studies student at the London School of Economics, recently became a minor celebrity amongst Men’s Rights activists and other angry men when he sued his alma mater for alleged sexism against men.

He’s now had his case thrown out of court. Let’s go to the Camden New Journal for details:

Tom Martin, 39, who lives in Covent Garden, claimed he suffered “anti-male discrimination” while studying for a master’s degree in gender, media and culture at the world-famous university in Holborn.

Representing himself at his application for a trial at the Central London County Court on Tuesday, Mr Martin complained of a lack of men-only sessions in the university’s gym and the preponderance of posters in the corridors advertis­ing services for women without the presence of similar materials geared towards men.

Mr Martin, who describes himself as a feminist, said “hard” chairs in the library were uncomfortable for men and that a “male blaming culture” was evident in course materials, which “ignored men’s issues” and focused on wrongs done by them.

Damn those misandrist chairs and their man-hating hardness!

The judge didn’t buy it, saying Martin’s case had essentially no chance of success. He threw out the case and ordered Martin to pay LSE’s legal costs.

Martin, welcome to reality.

On Twitter, Martin responded to the news by calling his critics “whores.” One of many examples:

But I was really discriminated against, you whores!

More examples here, and here.

And, yes, his Twitter handle is indeed Sexismbusters.org.

EDITED TO ADD: Actual headline today on What Men are Saying About Women:

Tom Martin Faces Slut-Feminist Judge, Motion Denied..

EDITED AGAIN TO ADD: Tom Martin has replied to this post in the comments. Some highlights:

My legal complaint did NOT involve a complaint about the seating. You have been misled by the press – The Times and the West End Extra/Camden New Journal both mysteriously got it wrong.

One year prior to joining the university, when visiting its library, I did complain, that the seating being hard created a greater disadvantage for men than for women, as men have considerably smaller weight-bearing buttock pads than women, and men are heavier too – so for men, on average heavier than women, have more weight bearing down onto a pad which is approximately four times smaller than women’s on average – according to a BBC documentary on the subject.

He then details his attempts to fight this grave injustice. Also, there’s this:

[S]everal comments here are confusing ‘whore’ with ‘slut’. A slut has sex freely, which I am all for. Freedom of association is the ultimate in humanity. A whore charges for sex. Even if a woman is a virgin, but is waiting for Mr Right to buy her something, she’s a whore.

It’s counter-intuitive, but a lot of professional feminists are whores. They expect the government and men to do them special favours. They make up stories to convince men and government to believe that we all owe women something.

But really, if someone were keeping a tab, then…

Women owe men five years pension.
Women owe men some National Service.
Women owe men some inventions.
Women owe men positive discrimination in university curricula.
Women owe men some child access.
It’s women’s round at the bar too.

For the whole thing, see here.

For more charming quotes from Tom, see this post on the blog Butterflies and Wheels.

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Posted on March 16, 2012, in actual activism, antifeminism, I'm totally being sarcastic, irony alert, misandry, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, Tom Martin, twitter, Uncategorized, whores. Bookmark the permalink. 1,737 Comments.

  1. oh, and next time if you decide to quote me, please quote EVERYTHING I said and don’t putt part of what I said then your words then a flashing sarcasm button for plausible deniability…

    it’s what good people do….

  2. Be nasty about men, with critical announcements at every turn, creating sufficient subterfuge , to then slyly help men get a bit more equality without all the women going “Equality? Men? NEVER! We’re moving to Saudi Arabia.”

    I know Tom said this PAGES back, but I have to point out the fact that, even if he was somehow right about women in Saudi Arabia having all the power, he’s missed one important thing: all the American backlash against the Middle East since 911.

    Tom, people are getting detained at airports just because they’re Muslim. In DC, where I live, people have reported women to Metro police *just because they were wearing a headscarf*. Most people think Saudi Arabia means TERRORISM, not “Land Where Women Run Everything”.

    Tom, HOW DID YOU MISS 911? It changed huge parts of people’s lives and the way the US was governed and demonized an entire religion and culture, but you think most American women want to just *move to the Middle East* in spite of all that?

  3. Honestly, considering this dude took his act to a fuckin courtroom, I find myself constantly left wanting. All blog smackdowns seem to pale compared to the 37g one the judge gave him lolll

  4. *Waits for Tom’s explanation of how 9/11 is proof of Muslim women being whores*

  5. *gets popcorn*

    (is it too early for a drink?)

  6. *Waits for Tom’s explanation of how 9/11 is proof of Muslim women being whores*

    Actually, I’m expecting to just be ignored. This *is* the guy that thought the fact that we don’t want there to be a national DNA database means that we hate men. :P

  7. All the other misrepresentations, by your comments, by the university, the judge, the media, the Times, the BBC, in relation to the facts of the case and the subsequent reporting of it, will show you for what you are. Unreliable witnesses, whoring for all you’re worth (or at least, 98% of you).

    You remind me of the sovereign citizens who grace the hallowed halls around here by their utter lack of understanding of anything beyond “words can be put on papers.”

    Statement of fact.

    No, this is a statement of fact: Everything you said in this thread can be brought up by your opponents in your court case when they respond to your appeal. Including you saying that 98% of people are whores…which means the appellate judges. Who will not be pleased.

  8. Statement of fact.

    No, this is a statement of fact: Everything you said in this thread can be brought up by your opponents in your court case when they respond to your appeal. Including you saying that 98% of people are whores…which means the appellate judges. Who will not be pleased.

    I really hope that happens and for the court case to be broadcasted. So the whole world can see first hand what a joke the MRM really is.

  9. @ Molly

    Should I tell him that I’ve actually lived in the Kingdom? I could in theory give him a lot more information about how things really work there, but given that he doesn’t seem to grasp the idea that facts and opinions are not the same thing I doubt that it would do any good. I really, really want him to try arguing his lulzy ideas with the mutaween, though.

  10. The child should have a guarantee of who its parents are, and this trumps all other concerns about theoretical abuses of DNA databases, which is a separate manageable issue (and just an excuse for perpetuating the status quo). In fact, there doesn’t even need to be a database. The genetic match can be verified and then the DNA destroyed (if people are really so concerned about it). The only thing that would need to be kept on the database, is a record of who the actual father is.

    Any more excuses for being whores?

  11. Did Tommy boy ever bother to explain why people who aren’t in favor of mandatory genetic testing are whores?

  12. Actually Tom, I think the word your looking for is bitch.

    Honestly, tommy done more to remove the burn of being called a whore or slut…

    I wonder how his mother couldn’t be a whore. He was hatched maybe?

  13. The child should have a guarantee of who its parents are, and this trumps all other concerns about theoretical abuses of DNA databases, which is a separate manageable issue (and just an excuse for perpetuating the status quo).

    And nary a concern about how this grossly violates at least one other country’s Constitution. After all, it is all about the children (that Tom does not really care about.)

  14. Cassandra: Imagine, as a non-custodial mother, you spend 2 years paying child support to the father of your child, but then as the child gets older, and you begin to suspect that the child isn’t yours, you ask for a maternity test, find out the baby ISN’T yours, but then go to the courts, and get told by the judge that regardless, because you didn’t ask for the test within the first year, you are legally the mother and therefore liable for 16 more years of child support. Furthermore, the man you’re paying it to, knew all along you weren’t the mother, but somehow or other duped you into believing you were, and regardless, just keep handing over the dough to him – then get back to me about whether “whore” is the right term or not.

    Any OTHER excuses for not changing the system?

  15. In order for that to be a valid reason to change the system, Tom, paternity fraud would need to be far more widespread than it is. You’d also need to resolve all the potential legal issues (which you blithely dismiss), and you’d need the support of a critical mass of the population (which you don’t have).

    If you want to change the way the system works, and you live in a democracy, there are ways to do that. If you really think this is vitally important, then get to work. Calling woman whores on the Internet isn’t going to change anything.

    But hey, you got through an entire comment without using the word “whore”. Keep it up for a while and people may even start to take you seriously.

  16. but then go to the courts, and get told by the judge that regardless, because you didn’t ask for the test within the first year, you are legally the mother and therefore liable for 16 more years of child support.

    That is not how the system works in the US nor do I imagine in the UK.

  17. Also, Tom, you do realize that you’re slipping up and showing everyone what your real issues are, right? The fact that you’re more concerned about money than child welfare is coming through loud and clear.

  18. PrincessBonBon,

    “He doesn’t care about children!”

    You’re just making things up now.

    False allegations bad.

    But well done for taking part. Yes you can!

  19. Cassandra:

    Explain how a child’s welfare is damaged by knowing who their real father is automatically.

  20. But Tommy…. is it the poor women, who will be freed of jealousies when they have paternity tests for every child?

    Or is it the child, who will know who daddy is?

    Or is it the man, who knows the court ordered child support is money he can’t weasel out of, because the kid is his?

    As I said, if you can get a system, which doesn’t inconvenience men patented (foolproof, of course, less than .001 false positives), I’ll fund it.

  21. Nice strawman, Tom. Now how about you get back to the point? If you think this is an important issue, you need to engage with the democratic process in order to change things. Arguing with people on blogs does not result in changes to the legal system.

  22. Y’know, Tom, there could be a fund for fathers who want to take a DNA test — or does it have to be a state-ordered mandatory DNA test (for some reason) to work for you?

    The thing is, in this economy, lots of really important things are going underfunded; but maybe you and Paul Elam or someone could throw some money into the pot on your respective sides of the ocean, and then the whore men who want to access these funds can get tested.

  23. Cassandra: It’s possible that Tom is leery of having another serious involvement with the law.

  24. Doesn’t matter how leery he is – arguing with people on the Internet still isn’t going to bring about the changes that he wants.

    Of course in order to actually engage in the democratic process he’d need to settle on an argument, and in general wrangle his muddled ideas into some sort of order. To be fair, that does seem to be beyond his capabilities.

  25. Crumbelievable

    Also, Tom, you do realize that you’re slipping up and showing everyone what your real issues are, right?

    The minute he starting talking about how women are whores is when he showed us what he’s really about.

  26. PrincessBonBon,

    This indeed IS how the system works on paternity fraud:

    tp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paternity_fraud

    abegoesbuzz,

    Women do not have to pay anything for their maternity to be verified at birth with an identity bracelet placed on the child etc, or if any other complications arise, so men should not have to pay for it either. It should be a basic human right that every government should pay for, you miserly whore.

  27. You’re just making things up now.

    Nope, it is pretty clear you could care less about the children. If you did care about them it would not be “find out who the father is by forcing all men to take paternity tests regardless of cost to the system, cost to families, cost to society, and the civil rights of men.”

    It would be “how do we make sure that children have enough food, shelter, and other needs taken care regardless of who the father is?” Because that is actually more important.

    False allegations bad.

    Oh they are. Unfortunately for you this is not a false allegation.

    But well done for taking part. Yes you can!

    *pats you on the head* It is okay, one day you might snap out of it.

  28. “Oh shit, he’s winning the arguments. Let’s pick faults in him not stressing how much it will save the children enough, even though that’s bleeding obvious and we can’t explain how it will damage the children in any way, only how it will mildly inconvenience whores. I think we’re getting away with it though.But It’s okay if we aren’t I suppose, because we’re whores and we feel no shame.”

  29. I’m impressed. The cognitive dissonance dampers are really powerful. I don’t know where he got them but it’s either that, or a ring-bearing in his neck to keep up with the spinning and direction changes as he moves those goalposts.

    He’s dull, but industrious.

  30. One of the points that has just gone right over Tom’s little pointy head is the point that if a man decides to get a paternity fraud test where it turns out he is not a father of a child, he most likely will no longer have access to that child.

  31. Women do not have to pay anything for their maternity to be verified at birth with an identity bracelet placed on the child etc, or if any other complications arise, so men should not have to pay for it either. It should be a basic human right that every government should pay for, you miserly whore.

    Yeah, but some other commenter here already explained why giving parents (or mothers, if you prefer) the wrong child is a hospital-problem, which hospitals guard against lest they be be found liable — while a presumed father not being the child’s actual genetic father is not a hospital-problem. So I probably don’t need to go into that, unless you’re really stupid. You’re not really stupid, are you, Tom?

    (If you were, I could tell you that all hospital birthing services, including the ID bracelet, are actually really fucking expensive here in the U.S., but I’m just gonna assume you know that.)

    If the governments should pay for it, it’s really not up to me, then, is it? Why the names, Tom? Call your PM a miserly whore. Call your country’s taxpayers miserly whores. Or you could, as I suggested, create a fund with other like-minded souls to help indigent fathers who want but cannot afford genetic testing. Why not? This is apparently something that you feel very passionate about. Fund it, you miserly whore, you!

    Oh wait. You can’t. Because you’re already deep in debt because of your poor decisions and awful reasoning skills. Whoops! Lol ur priorities.

  32. @Tom:

    “Oh shit, he’s winning the arguments. Let’s pick faults in him not stressing how much it will save the children enough, even though that’s bleeding obvious and we can’t explain how it will damage the children in any way, only how it will mildly inconvenience whores. I think we’re getting away with it though.But It’s okay if we aren’t I suppose, because we’re whores and we feel no shame.”

    … Are you quoting yourself here? Cause honestly that’s the best interpretation you’ve got here. Otherwise you have a whiny kid declaring victory while calling counter-arguments and demands of evidence “pedantic” and calling the arguers whores. Repeatedly. ad nauseum. You really don’t want to be this guy.

  33. In Tomspeak…

    WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE WHORE

  34. @Tom:

    There are some pretty simple reason why mandatory genetic testing is unnecessary and a bad idea.

    “Paternity testing from an accredited laboratory typically costs between $400.00 and 2,000.00, depending on the area in which you live in and the type of paternity testing you choose.” source

    So a mandatory minimum of 400 dollars of extra expense for all births. Then, also, you are making the law assuming that in a significant number of cases it would catch paternaty fraud. The wiki you linked to states that the rate of discrepancy found in various academic studies ranged from 2.0% to 9.6%. “However, in situations where disputed parentage was the reason for the paternity testing (which “inevitably overestimates population level”) there were higher levels; an incidence of 17% to 33% (median of 26.9%).”

    So, in cases where the parantage is disputed, (the cases where a paternaty test would be done anyway), the rates would be significant enough to warrent the test. The rest is likely insignificant (the 2.0-9.6% includes rates found in cases where parantage was disputed already).

    So what you have is a mandatory costly procedure accusing every single couple of paternaty fraud from the get-go with no hope to provide any sort of significant advantage. Congrats. You’ve just formulated a terrible law.

  35. CassandraSays:

    I think we should test the grandparents too. I mean, what if grandad isn’t really the grandfather? There might be some elderly man out there who doesn’t even know that he just became a grandfather, and we can find him if we just start a massive DNA database!

    I didn’t bother with a paternity test, partly because I’m not a paranoid misogynist and I had no reason to think that my son might not be mine, but mainly because he’s is the living spit of my grandfather.

    In fact, whenever I show pictures of him and this particular paternal great-grandfather side by side people generally gasp in astonishment and say something like “I never believed in reincarnation till now”.

    In fact, since the great-grandfather in question was a prominent right-wing politician, I’m actually more concerned about that side of things than I am about the possibility that the male child I live with might not be my son.

    (Mind you, I suppose my wife could have had sex with my brother – but for that to have happened, there’d also have to be a stronger probability of hell freezing over or the Dalai Lama being revealed as the new head of Al-Qaeda, as those two scenarios are considerably more believable.)

  36. Women do not have to pay anything for their maternity to be verified at birth with an identity bracelet placed on the child etc, or if any other complications arise

    Yep, that 30p bracelet they put onto the child which said that for the next 18 years I’ll belieable to care for that baby. Seems like a good deal to me, for the baby and the government. What’s in it for me?

    , so men should not have to pay for it either.

    Yep, 30p vs. 400$
    If the government gave you 30p, would you be OK with that?
    See data about paternity fraud above.

    It should be a basic human right that every government should pay for, you miserly whore.

    So, you want the government to pay for you? You whore!
    BTW, it always amazes me how some guys seem to think that after years of care, love and relationship with a child, the thing that matters more than all these things is their DNA and their money. Totally not selfish.

    BTW, Tom, what do you think about a guy who is the father but tries to force paternity testing in order to paint his ex-wife to be as an irresponsible slut so he can get a better deal in the divorce?
    Does it prove whoriarchy, too, in some strange way?

  37. Woooooooooooowwww it’s douchey in here to-night.

  38. HERE A WHORE THERE A WHORE EVERYWHERE A WHORE WHORE

  39. Tom is such a whore. Not only does he want the government to pay for paternity testing for every baby just to soothe his insecurity, he apparently wants David to fly to London to help him with his little documentary and he expects David to pay for it. Or possibly the government should pay for it. Certainly not Tom, whose basic premises are a. 97% of women are whores and b. also give me money.

  40. Well, to be fair to Tom, his production budget just took a £37,000 hit.

  41. You think he had a budget set aside? I was thinking that he was expecting the government to pay for it.

  42. Tom Martin: No matter how often you call me a whore, I will not fuck you.

    Not because I particularly object to being called a whore, you understand, though it’s factually inaccurate and that always bothers me. Just because you’re a vile excuse for a petty philanderer, and there are syphilitic goats with a better sense of justice.

  43. I’m going to put this in as non-stigmatizing terms as possible, but I do think it needs to be said:

    Tom, you have severe psychological problems, and you are not managing them well.

  44. CassandraSays:

    You think he had a budget set aside? I was thinking that he was expecting the government to pay for it.

    I think you’ve just worked out the motive behind the original £50,000 damages claim, since it made absolutely no sense on any other level.

    Martin Scorsese raised the budget of Mean Streets by suing someone who called him a mook. Absolutely true.

  45. Well, OK, a bit made up.

  46. By the way, doesn’t anybody else think the idea that making women the only accountable party for the identity of the father a tad… stupid?

    In Tom’s world, if the man lied, or betrayed the woman’s trust, or even used a forged I.D., she would be the only one punished for that. And let’s not get started on rape victims! You should have known better than getting a vagina, you whore?

    Anyway, I’m sure that a world that required the immediate identification of both parents, with heavy penalties for the woman, would have veeeery healthy social structures, and totally non screwed-up relationships. Because whores.

  47. After reading all of this, I can’t shake the overwhelming feeling I get that once upon a time, a young Tom Martin bought a lady he liked dinner and the “whore” had the audacity to deny him sexytimes.

  48. Good lord, I don’t think I have anything constructive to add to this thread.

    Everybody’s already said everything I could think of to say, and better! — Except of course for the Whorefinder General. (He gets thruppence ha’penny for every one he finds, you know!)

    I think it is clear now that “whore” as used by Tom Martin is a synonym for “c–t” as used by the inimitable whomsoever it was whom I cannot find right now (but there’s totally a study on it from 1897).

  49. What if I got pregnant while I was in an other country, or with someone from another country. If I tell that my baby’s father leaves in a cave in China, do you get him there?

    Hey, other idea, what stopping me, just for the lulz, to point as my baby’s father random famous people. I slept with Johnny Depp, go take his DNA. No wait, that was Barack Obama. No sorry, I meant George Takei. Or maybe Benedict Cumberbatch. Yeah, definitely him.

    Oh, I’ve got a better one: what if my husband, on whom I never cheated and who fathered a child is dead a week after I got pregnant? Do you put me in prison for life or would you rather dig up the corpse? No, wait, all is left is ashes. What do we do?

    And what is a whore?

  50. If paternity tests are made routine for every newborn the cost would come way down, and it would create jobs, and millions of children and men currently duped around the world would know who their real families actually are.

    You’re having another empathy fail.

    As with the seating issue, I pointed out in an essay on hard seating in a museum, that the discomfort for men is compunded by not only having smaller weight-bearing buttock pads than women, but by being heavier than women, so having more weight bearing down onto a smaller area – and that the problem is compounded further still, by people not taking the complaint seriously.

    This inhabitants of this website are compounded shite trying their best to block equality wherever it might happen.

  51. Jesus Christ, Mr. Martin, all right, come over here and I’ll give you your cooties booster so you won’t have to fear rubbing elbows with all the gorlz and therefore you will stop trying to strip off their shoes and keep them in the kitchen.

    No sorry, I meant George Takei. Or maybe Benedict Cumberbatch. Yeah, definitely him.

    Either of those men could give me all the babies and I’m otherwise a straight white male. U mad?

  52. Seriously Tom take your too tiny ass argument up with mother nature.

  53. Oh, Tom, go buy one of these. I suppose you expect the government to buy that for you too.

    But I like it that you use “I wrote an essay about it once” as evidence that this widespread problem exists. Mother Nature is a whore, goddammit — giving men such bony asses and providing few tufted sofas for them to sit upon.

  54. Oooh oooh if writing essays is all it takes to prove an argument, I have some essays from college that my philosophy prof didn’t like all that much. I can’t lay my hands on them at the moment, but they’re on a 3″ floppy in a box somewhere and they totally invalidate your argument.

    MY UNDERGRADUATE PHILOSOPHY WANKINGS

    YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID

  55. Uh… Tom, just because something becomes routine does not lower the cost. Not everything works on a basic supply and demand scale. In fact, most things don’t. And here you were aiming for LSE. Silly.

    Your lack of knowledge is continuing to show. No wonder you could never manage academics so well. Throw your case before plenty of other judges and you’d get the same result. Why? Because your case is actually just bad for you. You are only making it worse.

  56. It is sad that Tom assumes DNA makes a family when that has nothing to do with it.

    In my own family I have one sister adopted out (Dad is not her dad.) I have one sister adopted in (Dad and my step mom are her parents, not her DNA ones) and my mom is my mom even if I call my step mom “mom.”

    Fathers, even ones who find out later that their child is not biologically theirs, are most likely going to keep fighting to have access to their children because DNA is not what makes a family.

  57. If paternity tests are made routine for every newborn the cost would come way down

    We’re gonna need a paternity test bingo card eventually. Same answer as to the last one who suggest it: no, it doesn’t work like that. If it does, prove it. How much do you think the price would drop anyway?

    and it would create jobs

    See, that’s the funny part: you actually get that a test need people working. These people need to be paid; Which costs a lot.

    and millions of children and men currently duped around the world would know who their real families actually are.

    So now you want to make it a world law, when countries can’t agree on stuff like “torture is bad”? You want to go in countries where people are starving, where people are dying for lack of meds, for lack of water just to do a test that 9 out 10 already know the answer and the tenth isn’t in any danger, well until you go tell their father that they’re not their father and some of them get thrown to the streets.
    You want to spend money nobody has for something not life threatening and which concern a tiny proportion of people. How about you spend this money on AIDS testing and meds?

    You’re having another empathy fail.

    You’re the one who’s refuse to be empathic to hypothetical me who was raped by a stranger and will go to prison because of that.

    As with the seating issue, I pointed out in an essay on hard seating in a museum, that the discomfort for men is compunded by not only having smaller weight-bearing buttock pads than women, but by being heavier than women, so having more weight bearing down onto a smaller area – and that the problem is compounded further still, by people not taking the complaint seriously.

    I know you’re already deep down this hole you keep digging ad I don’t want to hit you with the shovel, but you never actually proved any of that, nor the effect that this supposed sex difference could have.

  58. As with the seating issue, I pointed out in an essay on hard seating in a museum, that the discomfort for men is compunded by not only having smaller weight-bearing buttock pads than women, but by being heavier than women, so having more weight bearing down onto a smaller area – and that the problem is compounded further still, by people not taking the complaint seriously.

    I think at this point it looks like Tom is trying to prove that men just aren’t meant to SIT. IT’S UNNATURAL!

    P.S. Tom, why do you think hordes of women will want to move to Saudi Arabia in a post-911 world? Did you miss 911 entirely?

  59. If paternity tests are made routine for every newborn… millions of children and men currently duped around the world would know who their real families actually are.

    You’re having another empathy fail.

    You’re saying parents and children who aren’t biologically related can’t form “real families”, but it’s the rest of us that lack empathy. Sure thing, sport.

    Dude, seriously though. If you want to have a paternity test upon the birth of any child that is supposedly biologically yours, you should feel free. I hope anyone who would reject their kid after finding out they’re not blood relatives would make damn sure they were blood relatives before the kid gets a chance to bond with them. No kid should ever have to find out that daddy doesn’t want to see them anymore because they have the wrong damn chromosomes. It’s just unbelievably intrusive to demand that every other potential biological parent do the same thing, even ignoring the cost.

  60. And to think some people adopt children on purpose.

  61. Oh also, well done claiming to be concerned about the poor sweet children, while at the same time suggesting that single parents of newborns should be jailed for 6 months. Yup, you’re just all about the kids, aren’t you Tom?

  62. @Molly

    P.S. Tom, why do you think hordes of women will want to move to Saudi Arabia in a post-911 world? Did you miss 911 entirely?

    What’s the point in looking at any individual event, when everything’s being controlled by the Whoriatti anyway?

  63. Well joe, I have to agree that the biggest victims are men who die in war. What often gets overlooked though, it that the survivors, often women, children and the elderly are continuing to suffer. They suffer the loss of the dead men, they are suffering through the nightmare of war, they often continue to suffer malnutrion, starvation, homelessness, rape and disease long after the war is done. I don’t want to undercut the very real suffering of dead men, but once dead they suffer no more. The survivors suffer for years if not lifetimes after that and are here right now waiting for help.
    If I could end war I would. But I can’t bring back the dead. I can help the living. Also, you do realize that in several areas of the world that women and children are also combatants right? That they are suffering right along with the men?

  64. Perhaps the problem with men die in war is that the north American continent hasn’t fought a war on its own soil in such a long time.

    Joe its not like wars are fought out in the hayfields anymore. Civilian targets(villages and towns) are deliberately targeted. Armies sweep through cites and villages killing everywhere they go, and they don’t care who they hit. Hell, if they kill a pregnant woman its a two for one goal!! Just walking down a street to get your groceries can get you killed. Walking across your field to water crops you could step on a landmine. And guess what? The killing doesn’t pass you by because you have two x chromosomes. Landmines don’t do gene tests before they explode. Women aren’t immune to chemicals like agent orange.

  65. @pillowinhell Did you mean to comment on the “Highlights” post? (It’s getting a little confusing!) I only point this out because I think your comments are good, and Joe should see them — though he’ll probably ignore them, so maybe why bother… [Slumps back into inertia.]

  66. Joe, it takes a shit ton of abuse and real papable soul grinding dread and certain knowledge that your abuser will kill you, for the victim of said abuse to turn on their attacker. And its almost always done when their abuser is somehow incapcitated because the abused victim has lived in terror for so long and because they are certain that there is no other escape. They’ve tried and tried and tried to run, only to end up with more pain and more terror.

    The answer to this is to create supports and change cultural values so that no one finds themselves having to make that choice.

    I have just as much sympathy for men who have to face their abusers as I do women. And abuse needs to stop long before someone feels that the only way out is to kill their partner in self defence.

    I’m just going to leave this for you to read Joe, it shows what happens when women get convicted of murdering their spouses

    http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzhczqOOaQ1qz9zmqo1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1331913960&Signature=w64co0dkID1cz%2FuGFBtx8jZQcpo%3D

  67. Whoops! Which thread am I on again! I couldn’t find my way outta a paper bag with a choir of angels to lead me some days!

    Thanks!

  68. Yep. A constipation of manboobzers have failed to come up with any good arguments (obviously) about why paternity testing shouldn’t be mandatory.

    Some bad arguments? Lots:

    “It only effects a small percentage, so doesn’t matter.” It effects millions of people, so it does matter.

    “It’s a loss of civil rights to have a DNA database.” No, you don’t even need a database to establish paternity. And much more significantly anyway, its a loss of the child’s rights not to know who its genetic parents are.

    “It would cost too much.” Ask the average 18 year old who has been unable to trace their father whether they’d pay £400 to find him. And ask the average social worker (who isn’t a marxist feminist man-hater) whether it would be worth £400 for a child to know who their real father is, or ask a probation officer the same question.

    “Just because someone isn’t the biological father doesn’t mean he can’t be a good parent.”
    True, but the biological father should always get the first refusal at being that good parent. The presence of the biological father makes a huge difference to well-being for a child, and so is optimum. The biological father still has the right not to be a parent to the child (just like the mother does), but it should be a conscious decision – not a cover up by the mother or a lethargic state crying that £400 for a paternity test is too much or some loss of liberty.

    And for those people who want lower taxes, they can argue the parents should pay towards the cost of the compulsory paternity test. Not all or even nearly all of it though in my opinion, because while both parents and the child will benefit from knowing who the real father is, so will the rest of us – as a child who knows who their real parents are is significantly less likely to go on to have a life of crime, drug addiction, under education and under employment, and is significantly more likely to go on to have a productive life.

    With comfortable seating, they just might go all the way.

    Remember, your leader, David Futrelle is a douche, who cannot or does not want to distinguish between a men’s equality issues and misogyny.

    He made a judgment call with this article and got it wrong.

    If its his job to get things wrong, then he is a huge winner.

  69. Martin, the laws are already in place in Canada so that men can know the paternity of their children if they wish. It often comes up in court that men question their paternity and the law deals with it in an evenhanded manner.

    Failing an outright chromosome test, a simple blood type test (which is done automatically right after birth) may be enough to prove a child isn’t his. But tell me why men who’ve been married to a woman for years and suspected the children they were raising all that time weren’t theirs suddenly decide to bring that up when child support is being decided?

    Yes, children do have a right to know their parentage. I will conceed that my certainty about my maternity does color things. But I fail to see why you want to make this such an issue, paternity tests can be done at any time. Perhaps what you’re worried about is the anger of a womans integrity being challenged, of her feeling shamed unnecessarily? Because that’s exactly what a mans faces with near certainty when he tells her he wants the test done. You want an easy out for the men, he can just throw his hands in the air and say “its not my fault that you’re assumed to be a lying slut?”

  70. That’s what you really want isn’t it Tom? A law that will automatically make a woman feel like a lying slut everytime she has a child. Despite the fact that most of us (like 90 percent) aren’t.

    You do know that those tests take weeks to come back right? And that with every child in the nation being tested it will end up backlogged right? Have you thought about how a family might function whilst awaiting that test? That civil rights are being violated?

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