Oh, Men’s Rights subreddit, will you ever learn? (Probably not.)
Sometimes I ask myself: what is it that I really hope to accomplish with this website, aside from entertaining myself and my readers, and exposing misogynist assholes for who they are. There’s a part of me that still hopes that someday, something I write will cause some misogynist and/or Men’s Rightser out there to develop a modicum of self-awareness, look at what they’ve been saying or doing, and say to themselves, “I’m really kind of a tool, aren’t I? Maybe I should stop.”
When the Southern Poverty Law Center report on the Men’s Rights movement came out, I hoped it might have a similar sort of effect. Or that, even if it didn’t persuade any MRAs out there that they were wrong, it might at least convince a few that they were going about things the wrong way. Nope. On the Men’s Rights subreddit, at least, it seems to have sent many of the regulars into an indignant tizzy, and they have doubled down on their peculiar brand of politics-by-whining-online.
Consider this post:
Yes, that’s right. Some Men’s Rights Redditors seem to think that the best way to convince the world that they’re not part of a hate group is to continue to celebrate a self-admitted child abuser who urged men to firebomb courthouses and police stations and kill people.
Then there’s this post, currently the top post on the subreddit:
Wow, if the Men’s Rights subreddit had anything to do with that, that would indeed be a victory. As one regular put it:
Thing is, I read r/mensrights pretty regularly, and I don’t remember any campaign there to protect the rights of fishermen in New Zealand.
Turns out that’s because the campaign, such as it was, consisted of one post some months back, which got all of 11 upvotes at the time. The current post in which r/mensrights congratulates itself for its “victory” has gotten, last I checked, 120 upvotes, more than ten times that. Simplecosine’s self-congratulatory comment in the new thread has gotten 36 upvotes. The comment in the original thread asking r/mensrightsers to send an email to the US Secretary of State’s office got … one upvote. In other words, only a handful of Men’s Rights Redditors even noticed the original post, much less sent along an email.
Reading one of the linked news articles makes clear the real reason the State Department opened an investigation: a six-month long, three-continent wide investigation by Bloomberg Businessweek revealing abuses in the industry.
The Men’s Rights subreddit: Taking Credit for Shit They Didn’t Do Since 2008.
And then there’s this post:
I’ve got nothing to say about this one — it’s basically self-refuting — except that I’m sort of bemused by the notion that the Southern Poverty Law Center is a “semi-women group.” Uh, what is that exactly? A group with some women in it? A group that doesn’t think women are all a bunch of evil bitches? The horror!
Oh, Men’s Rights movement. You’ll never change, will you?
EDITED TO ADD: And speaking of never changing, here’s how one Men’s Rights redditor responded to my comments there suggesting that maybe, just maybe, MRAs should actually denounce and distance themselves from someone calling for terrorism:
Let me just highlight that bit at the end again:
[T]he cost to the establishment to maintain the status quo in regards to divorce, custody, etc. must be made so high that it’s just no longer feasible. If that means instilling abject fear into the hearts of judges, cops and legislators by making them think their careers and/or lives could be forfeit unless they change their attitudes towards men, then so be it.
Trying to instill fear for one’s life in your opponents: that is the very definition of terrorism.
Posted on March 12, 2012, in actual activism, antifeminism, drama, grandiosity, hypocrisy, misogyny, MRA, MRA paradox, oppressed men, reddit, terrorism. Bookmark the permalink. 528 Comments.
Which time was that, exactly? For that matter, which societies?
anyway, yes, certainly things have come to a sorry pass when perfectly civilized attitudes like “terrorize the cops and judges through firebombing” devolve into “post peoples’ own hateful words and mock them for it on the Internets.”
@Kendra, the bionic mommy
“No the MRM is not a civil rights movement. It is a backlash to feminism, and its goal is to roll back any gains made by feminists. Surely you’ve read the report about the MRM by now, right?”
Did you say report? What exactly makes a report? Is that when women are treated badly by men. Is it then a legitimate report? How about a “report” such as the one you linked to but regendered? Would you find it as credible?
I noticed “George Sodini” is listed as an example of a typical MRA. If that’s the case than “Valerie Solanas” must be a typical feminist. Particularly since we now have a State funded play of the SCUM manifesto. Has there been a biting satire play about George Sodini? Or would that be considered hateful? Once again anyone can easily see who is privileged and has all the power in modern day society.
I noticed registerher.com was mentioned as a bad man thingy. Although Gloria Allred recently call a site where women basically trash any man, (with names) they feel like a leap forward in womens rights. These men of course aren’t teaching hatred like radfem hub and the SCUM girls, which are the slime on registerher. They’re just average men women have decided aren’t recieving enough societal-wide hatred.
By the way, my rights consist of life, freedom and property. Everything else which women recieve is privilege and entitlement. So the gains you speak of being rolled back would be the loss of privilege and entitlement women currenty recieve above men. You call yourself the bionic mommy, I hope you don’t have any boys.
————–
Several people commented on womens health, both reproductive and otherwise. Falconer even managed to allude to being in a blind rage over how poorly women are treated by the medical field. For every $1.00 spent on mens health $3.00 is spent on womens health. Is a mere 25% spending on mens health still too much in your opinion? In 1900 the average american man lived within 1 year of the average american woman, now it’s 7 years. Is that too much as well?
I also noted the paultry $1000.00 a year for womens contracteption being so much cheaper than pregnancy, or the abortion slaughterhouses. Of course it’s really not an either/or now is it? It’s an also paying more for women plan. My taxes for the slaughterhouse and my private funds for the contraception and pregnancy. So how can paying for womens contraception, plus paying for the slaughterhouses and pregnancy be cheaper than only paying for the slaughterhouses and pregnancy? My math seems to be a bit rusty.
MRAs are neither particularly fond of nor are good with details. Details are stupid things. They are part of the communist, feminist, liberal agenda.
After reading SPLC I doubt anyone could take MRAs seriously anymore.
Oh, but NWO, if we call you violent, how will you punish us?
You’re violent! Why… you’re abusive!
You gonna just take that? What would you do when a woman says this to you?
I’d just like to quote my partner’s reaction upon reading any of the MRA trolls here on manboobz:
“You know I think the MRM might actually be helping the sex lives of so-called not-alphas. Every time I read one of them I’m reminded of how incredibly awesome my ‘beta mangina boys’ are.”
This is then followed by zir jumping me, insisting on cuddles. So, thanks DKM, Slavey, and all the other trolls! You both entertain me, and get me cuddles!
Who else loves /r/mensrights as much as I do?
Every time I read NWOslave, I am reminded of this dish I got on ebay.
I don’t care for those DV ads with the children in them either. But that doesn’t exactly change the fact that the majority of MRAs are misogynists who ignore the violent rhetoric in their “movement”
AntZ:
That would be the sort of civil rights movement that thinks people whom it doesn’t like ouhght to be killed?
That would be the “brutish” times in the past when women were only moderately less than equal to men? The times which the present is trying to prevent from returning?
Or was it the time in the past when all the men lived on one side of the river, and all the women on the other, and babies showed up in the cabbage patch and Pyramus and Thisbe had to talk through a hole in the wall?
NWO: Has there been a relentless ad campaign depicting women as abusers of men/boys and children in our schools, government and MSM? That’s how you know whose privileged and holds the power in any given society.
Maybe it’s how we teach people who the prevalent abusers are?
You know, fix the problem. Make abuse (no matter who the taget is) just plain unacceptable.
Oh, wait… you think the problem is not enough women are being, “escalated” against. Too few of them are being slapped for being uppity, or beaten to death for defending themselves whey they get slapped.
That the real crime is when a guy who tries to beat two women’s brains in when they slapped him is being charged with the assault he committed.
Actually, a realer question for NWO (although “how hard should women be beaten for saying you’re violent?” still has such poetry for me):
Which would make you happier:
A) If government campaigns against domestic violence started depicting women as potential abusers and men as potential victims?
B) If government campaigns against domestic violence stopped depicting men as potential abusers and women as potential victims?
@Holly Pervocracy
Hey, Holly, did you know about the “mandatory” dressing up of boys in girl clothing going on in colleges? All for a good cause of course. The continuation of propaganda by the privileged class.
——————
“In April of last year the MSU student newspaper, The Reflector, reported that the SAS office received a competitive grant from the Justice Department’s Office of Violence Against Women. The $300,000 grant named the “Campus Grant Program” is one of twenty one competitive grants distributed by the OVAW who’s recipients are given broad discretion on how to use the funds.”
—————–
“The crowd of marching men were subjected to demeaning slurs from the crowd of onlookers and given hand written notes from members of a virtually all female audience implying their complicity in the supposed sexual assault epidemic.“Female students stood on the side lines. Over 400 male students wore heals and walked in a 1/4 mile circle, four times while the female students stood and watched, mostly smiling and some were laughing.”
——————
“Standards Requirement,” imposed to ensure a participation rate of at least 80% for all fraternities. Consequences for non-compliance of this requirement include revocation of privileges for individual fraternity members as well as suspension or termination of a fraternity’s charter.”
—————–
Isn’t that my tax dollars hard at work? Why yes it is. This sounds like something you or Ozy might organize. Forcing men to dress in womens clothing or they will be punished. I thought shaming and demeaning were bad things? Oh that’s right, they were mooks, just disposable men. Kinda like State enforced by the whim of women. Not likely men did it, right? College women are now paid by the State to organize events that shame and demean men.
—————-
“According to annual Campus Police reports there have only been four reported rapes from 2005 to 2010. This on a campus who’s fall enrollment was between 15,000 and 20,000 students during that time period roughly half of whom were female. Rape, by far, is the least common violent crime reported.”
Again, my math is rusty. How can 4 in 10,000 or about 1 in 2,500, which is “reported rapes” not actual “convicted rapes” equal 1 in 4. Do women enjoy constantly lying, or are they just so empty headed that they’ll parrot any old thing as long as they’re seen as victims?
—————
And of course we have the “pledge”
http://www.avoiceformen.com/portal/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/walk-in-her-shoes-1.pdf
How long until the pledge of womens moral superiority becomes mandatory in grade schools? No wonder women believe themselves to be morally superior, with State enforced propaganda backing the privileged class.
Funny, in a society self-destructing kinda way how women never reciprocate in any way a pledge to stop being sexually coercive, stop teasing all men, stop acting like hypersexual animals in heat, stop being violent, stop lying, stop false accusing, stop cheating, stop gossiping, stop talking about and treating men like their disposable, stop treating men like shit, never profess any type of loyalty what-so-ever.
I think owly had an idea for that last paragraph, but he got so caught up in listing the ways in which women are evil he simply forgot it and ran out of steam.
Did you ask Elam if his “anonymous” source explained how the feminazis coerced the Mayor and firefighters to march?
Two words: NO ONE.
At least no one with a brain.
@NWO
For someone who is presumably very far right, you sure sound like a Marxist talking about privileged and oppressed classes all the time.
@Futrelle
I cannot thank you enough for Manboobz and other misogyny-exposing websites. You really are doing a public service and are making the world a slightly more reasonable and just place.
High heels do draw the eye to the legs and some of those firefighters have nice legs.
:)
@nwoslave:
So… I looked through the sources for the avfm article that you quoted from without actually citing…
I see no evidence for any forced compliance. There was no dressing up in girls clothing (besides wearing high heels), and no evidence of slurs being directed at the men in the march. That mostly women were in the audience was not surprising (because the men were marching), and that they were laughing is also not surprising (because its rather odd to see frat boys in heels).
So yeah… What we have here is a pledge put on by fraternities to increase awareness of sexual assault by wearing heels. How avfm can spin that to a bunch of men being forced to cross-dress while being heckled by a female audience is beyond me…
Oh my god, NWO, you’re clearly living in Opposite Land. How do you communicate with a society so radically different from your own? Does the black hole between your ears help or hinder such efforts?
Immense amounts of semi-legal “recreational” drugs.
@Holly Pervocracy
Well please forgive me for not responding in a timely fashion. I’m the bad man and must be punished. Women are encouraged to profess their hatred of men/boys, so any disparaging remarks against me are applauded. I on the other hand must remain respectful and adoring of all women lest I be chastized.
But to answer your question I would choose, “If government campaigns against domestic violence started depicting women as potential abusers and men as potential victims?”
However, to make things “equal” we’d need to have only women portrayed as utter filth, lacking in any morals or social graces, the constant barrage of men being better in every way backed by a “study” (haha) like all the studies every MSM outlet produces regularly. Women should only be portrayed as violent and buffoonish. And of course having no sexual control, (that’s an easy one since modern women actually don’t posses any).
I’d say if the State, schools and MSM promoted that for the next fifty years or so that’d make up for the last fifty years of so.
Also, also! See, I said also twice so I’m so cutting edge and progressive. We’d need lotsa talk shows. Sometimes we’d have one where a man cut out a womans vagina and tossed in the garbage disposal, oh how we’d all laugh. Then we’d dress up girls in work clothes and boots, (yukky, it might chaffe your sensitive skin). We’d parade them about and mock the stupid sewer workers.
Only men could marry up money wise. After divorce men would get the children and women would pay child support and alimony while living in the gutters. All shelters would be for men. We’d spend 75% on mens health so women would die 7 years earlier. Women would get far harsher criminal sentences. If there was a DV disurbance the woman would always be arrested.
We’d send women off to die for men in hard labor jobs and war, but we men will cheer you on.
And just on and on along those lines. Ya know, to make up for what has to be thousands of years of men suffering and sacrificing for women and children. And of course, my sperm my choice. The abortion slaughterhouses would be for men to decide who lives and who dies.
Is this like how a lot of virulent racists seem to think that “racist” is just a random insult meaning “bad person” and not actually a specific reference to racist behaviors? Ie., do they not understand that “terrorist” is a word with an actual meaning, and that if someone is trying to get their way by making people frightened for their lives then that person is indeed by definition a terrorist?
You really ARE stupid Owly. Do you not attempt to do just a LITTLE research outside of AVfM, or is that a too illumaniti for you?
“How long until the pledge of womens moral superiority becomes mandatory in grade schools? No wonder women believe themselves to be morally superior, with State enforced propaganda backing the privileged class.”
If you think rape is ok, then yes I am morally superior to you.
I’m actually kind of annoyed by Walk A Mile In Her Shoes, because my shoes are Rockport hiking boots. And any event that gets comedy value off “ha ha, isn’t it funny and that men are wearing lady clothes” ticks me off–it’s transphobic and implies that being womanly is humiliating for a man.
However, no one was forced to do it, and “people didn’t report sexual assaults to the campus police” is not exactly proof there weren’t any.
So women are constantly forcing men to rape them….
…and yet rape never really happens?
Holy fuck, NWO, how does that work?
Not well, I’d imagine.
@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
“Immense amounts of semi-legal “recreational” drugs.”
Or a 300K grant to humiliate and degrade men under punishment of losing their membership in a social club (frat).
“As a REAL MAN I know that it is part of my duty to create a safer place for our mothers, sisters, friends, lovers and daughters.”
I guess as a “real man” helping other men is irrelevant. Women are more generous than I thought! They only want my pledge to help 1/2 of society. In return I get a big old goose egg and an earful of propaganda.
@Holly Pervocracy
Being womanly is humiliating for a man. Are you so steeped in your feminist religion that you haven’t figured out men and women are different?
“Though the event might not sound appealing to most men, “Walk a Mile” had a record turnout. So many men registered this year that event organizers ran out of high heels, but that didn’t stop men from participating in the event.”
Yup. Held at gunpoint. Those poor unwilling participants.
Wearing heels at a volunteer event = forced to dress as a girl by the university.
BLOW IT ALL UP.
I’m trying to think of a villain in a movie or something that is actually everything that nwo attributes to women… Coercive, manipulative, horny, violent liars who gossip and treat men like dirt and only think about themselves.
I honestly can’t think of anybody. Not even Hollywood has the imagination that nwo has.
On the other hand, there was an erotic story that actually did have two women in it that acted exactly like this. Man, that story wasn’t fun to read at all. Maybe nwo has a secret profession?
The alternative explanation is that nwo get’s his opinions about women from badly written porn. Which… would explain a lot, actually.
Every time I read NWOslave, I am reminded of this dish I got on ebay.
William Steig! A great cartoonist, not to mention a follower of engagingly batty psychiatrist Wilhem Reich and his theories of orgone energy.
And the creator of Shrek. But he also owned an orgone cabinet!
Anything outside of Jesusland is Illuminati brainwashing.
All of this Illuminati smearing is the resentment of bitter old men whose ideals have long passed away.
2 + 2 = 5 in MRA land. Logic bitches!
I wouldn’t be that optimistic. NWO has vivid delusions all right, but I wouldn’t call it imagination, because no introspection, questioning, wondering, or creativity is happening.
Yeah, Boggi, those MRAs are such BITCHES. God, they’ve transgressed the boundaries of male behavior so badly that the only insult good enough for them is woman.
Sources? But this is a pretty poor argument anyway. People advocating for women’s health are not by default advocating against men’s health. Just because I want women to live longer, healthier lives doesn’t mean I want men to live miserable, unhealthy lives and die young.
Lifting one group up doesn’t necessitate knocking another group down.
@ostara321:
Yes it does so.
The idea that anyone can both be anti-birth control being covered by insurance and want less money spent on women’s healthcare, proportionally speaking, confuses me. Pregnancy and childbirth are really really expensive. If you want to cut costs, making sure that women who don’t want to have babies can avoid doing so is a really easy way to cut costs in terms of healthcare that’s specifically targeted at women.
My sister in law had a very difficult second pregnancy, and was hospitalized for much longer than is typical. When she got out she saw what the cost would have been if her insurance hadn’t picked up most of it. It was over a million dollars. Compared to that kind of money (which again her insurance was responsible for), the cost of BC pills is negligable.
Have you folks seen the response to Limbaugh’s redefinition of the word “slut”? It’s hilarious! XD
Love the video!
Because obviously, women will be taking birth control, getting pregnant, and aborting ALL AT THE SAME TIME!
@Shaenon I already had a million reasons for adoring William Steig, but I did not know he owned an orgone cabinet. I believe that makes him even awesomer. :-)
NWO,
Did you actually bother to read the article or did you just accept this hook, line and sinker from your pals at AVfM?
Here’s a link:
http://www.walkamileinhershoes.org/
The incident you were talking about was a march to protest against violence against women, not some kind of abuse and humiliation of men. These men were supporting the women in their lives. yay for them!
You really should go and read the original article before you go running off at the mouth.
For every $1.00 spent on mens health $3.00 is spent on womens health.
Fine. Then y’all start having the babies and we can reverse that dollar amount! Hurry up. What’s keeping you. You claim the d00dz invented everything and built everything. Get busy!
someone dumber than NWO
I repeat from above – one baby, over a million dollars in medical costs if my sister in law hadn’t had really great insurance. This is the majority of the reason why there’s such a disparity in healthcare costs between men and women.
(Women also go to the doctor more when they’re sick. We need to persuade men to do so too, and all this stuff about how men are naturally tougher etc isn’t helping.)
Where are those artificial wombs geniuses!
I like how this is a horrible punishment in NWOslave’s mind. I wear jeans and hiking boots to work EVERY DAY, yo!
At least NWO managed to get a believable proportion this time for healthcare spending this time.
One of his last claims ended up with what…10 billion dollars to women’s charities for every one to men’s? I can’t remember the exact ratio, but I did the math. Just looking at the numbers of a small men’s charity in New Jersey would mean that more is spent on women’s charities every year than about 6 times the combined GLOBAL wealth.
Yeah. Fuck that.
Well, however much NWO’s mother spent on neonatal care was obviously wasted.
They V O L U N T E E R E D NWO
vol·un·teer/ˌvälənˈti(ə)r/
Noun:
A person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.
Verb:
Freely offer to do something.
English, motherfucker. Do you read it?
“Well, however much NWO’s mother spent on neonatal care was obviously wasted.”
NWO was born on a bed of straw to an Amish midwife. There would have been a proper bed, but it cost too much tax money.
Shadow wins. Pulp Fiction references always win.
I still want to know how it works that women are constantly forcing men to rape them, but rape never happens.
NWO, please, enlighten the fuck out of me.
Lifting one group up doesn’t necessitate knocking another group down.
The difference between a civil rights group and a hate group in a nutshell.
“Being womanly is humiliating for a man.”
Being womanly is humiliating for NWO, NWO representing all men everywhere of course.
@Shaenon:
Funny thing is, both types of groups tend to target their efforts on disadvantaged or minority groups.
I’m pretty sure NWO thinks being womanly is humiliating for a woman. Does he really have any thoughts on people unfortunate enough to be women except “BLOW THEM ALL UP”?
(And, of course, “they’re all asking to be raped but none of them actually are.”)
“(And, of course, “they’re all asking to be raped but none of them actually are.”)”
I have a problem with this “asking to be raped” thing in that it sort of negates the meaning of rape. Rape means having sex with someone without their consent. So if they “ask you to rape” them, that means there was consent given… the anti logic just… it hurts >.<
THE HORROR! THE HORROR! WOMEN WEARING WORK PANTS IS DESTROYING CIVILIZATION! WHEN WILL THE REACTIONARY HYSTERIA COME TO AN END!
*does a lady faint*
Owlyslave, darling, love, sweetheart, you do realize that one of the major factors in women’s increased life expectancy is not “we decided to murder all the men” but “childbirth became less dangerous”?
Also, I am :( about something that presents men in heels as inherently hilarious, but it’s certainly not humiliating for a man to be in heels, and rape is actually a thing that happens.
Speaking of men in heels, some of the cat walk stuff here is awesome:
http://highheelspassion.blogspot.com/
@Maya
I know. These hysterical harpies scream and scream about the destruction of western civilization, but they obviously display such poor intelligence and education I doubt they will ever truly comprehend the gifts their civilization gave them let alone be able to give anything back.
@Holly
When I compare MRAs to women I don’t mean to humiliate women. I mean to humiliate MRAs by using irony. They criticize women with every stereotype and cliche out there from being selfish, shallow, vain, silly, hysterical, irrational, delicate, self-destructive, weak, materialistic, and only being about love and sex etc. etc. to nausea. Yet they themselves have most if not all of these “womanly” weaknesses.
Most MRAs are either hysterical harpies like NWO, selfish bulldogs like AntZ and MRAL who then hide behind a mask of innocence, shallow and materialistic seducers like Roissy, or sophists and demagogues like RockingMrE and ManWomanMyth who feign reason to manipulate people by playing on their prejudices and their resentments and insecurities resulting from the changes in our cultures understanding of gender and of gender roles.
They are some of the thoughtless, cruel, and vicious people in the world yet if you strike back they cry waterfalls of tears. It’s like watching Kent Hovind say “evolutionists” are “willingly ignorant”. The projection is so extreme and sanity-warping psychoanalysts would find MRAs fascinating study.
“So if they “ask you to rape” them, that means there was consent given… the anti logic just… it hurts >.<"
Yes, Joanna. I thought I was the only one who noticed this! Even well meaning people say things like this, it's frustrating.
I volunteered at a "Walk A Mile In Her Shoes" event. It was organized by a local sexual assualt trauma center, and the men who participated volunteered to raise awareness against violence against women. It was great, the men were there because they actually care about this issue and, again, VOLUNTEERED. He conveniently left all that information out.That deliberate misrepresentation is so typical.
Re: birth control. My sister gets ovarian cysts and before she knew that was what was causing the pain in her side, her cyst was so large she had to have it surgically removed. Now she takes birth control pills to stop getting cysts and it has worked. So this shouldn't be covered by insurance? Much cheaper than surgery!
Boggi – No. Please don’t double down on this. “No, it’s you who really acts like a stereotypical terrible woman!” is not a good way to do irony.
Dude, this is not about whether or not they deserve to be insulted. By using “bitches” as an insult, you are implying (and reinforcing the stereotype) that, to be a woman or womanly is to be inferior. You could have done everything you wanted without using “woman” as an insult.
Tell that to Iggy Pop, who is far cooler than you or I could ever hope to be
You guys do realize that the American elite have a hell of a lot more privilege beyond being white and male, right? I mean, that’s part of it, but they’re also rich, they’re almost all able-bodied, they’re usually born into reputable families, they’re neurotypical, etc.
Being womanly is A W E S O M E ! ! !
Pretty much, yeah.