The Southern Poverty Law Center takes on the violent misogyny so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement
[TW for the comments to this post; discussions of rape and abuse.]
The Southern Poverty Law Center, an organization devoted to tracking and exposing hate groups, has just published a detailed report on the misogyny and violent rhetoric so pervasive in the Men’s Rights Movement — as well as the actual violence inspired by this sort of hatred of women. It’s a piece you all should read, even though few of the details will be new to long-time readers of this blog.
Arthur Goldwag, an expert on conspiracy-mongers and the far right, argues (I think correctly) that the Men’s Rights movement is largely a backlash against the many successes of feminism over the last several decades:
It’s not much of a surprise that significant numbers of men in Western societies feel threatened by dramatic changes in their roles and that of the family in recent decades. Similar backlashes, after all, came in response to the civil rights movement, the gay rights movement, and other major societal revolutions. What is something of a shock is the verbal and physical violence of that reaction.
[Thomas] Ball’s suicide brought attention to an underworld of misogynists, woman-haters whose fury goes well beyond criticism of the family court system, domestic violence laws, and false rape accusations.
The Men’s Rights Movement, as it exists today, is not a civil rights movement; it is a regressive, hateful reaction against a civil rights movement — that is, feminism.
Those who truly care about the rights of men, and who are not motivated by a hatred of women or feminism, need to repudiate the hate and the violent rhetoric of the Men’s Rights Movement as it exists today. Only then can there be a Men’s Rights Movement worthy of the name.
EDITED TO ADD: The SPLC has also put up a guide to some of the more hateful sites in the manosphere. Longtime readers will be familiar with most of them.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN: And a piece debunking some Men’s Rights Myths.
EDITED TO ADD AGAIN, AGAIN: The discussion of the SPLC report on the Men’s Rights Subreddit is surprisingly reasonable, so far. (I mean, compared to what I expected. Meanwhile, over in this thread, the Men’s Rightsers are behaving as they usually do.)
Posted on March 8, 2012, in actual activism, anti-MRA information, antifeminism, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, terrorism, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 760 Comments.
And, if you click on the link for the full report you’ll find another article, “Men’s Rights Movement Spreads False Claims about Women” by Mark Potok and Evelyn Schlatter, as well as a list of misogynist web sites, which includes AVfM, Roosh, the Spearhead, and the r/MensRights sub-reddit. Best of all David, ManBoobz gets a citation as a web site described as “a humorous pro-feminist blog … that keeps a close eye on these and many other woman-hating sites”.
Good for the SPLC.
Linky links for those extra articles. The MBz citation is in the header for the first of these:
Misogyny: The Sites
Men’s Rights Movement Spreads False Claims about Women
So how soon can we expect an explanation for why the Southern Poverty Law Center is all a part of the international feminist conspiracy?
“So how soon can we expect an explanation for why the Southern Poverty Law Center is all a part of the international feminist conspiracy?”
The $PLC is far worse than any feminist organization.
Magnesium: Given that 90-99% of MRAs are also racists, they probably already think so. The other 10%, of course, hate the SPLC because they go after abortion clinic bombers.
Hey, MRAs, you’re officially a hate group now. Good job, and good on the SPLC for doing the report.
*wow*
I love the SPLC to the max (they brought down the Aryan Nations in northern Idaho).
And am impressed by fact that MBZ has been pointing to all the named sites and MRA dudez all along–go, David!
I should put popcorn on the shopping list for when the manosphere explodes over this reporting.
I’m on the edge of my seat waiting for the MRA response to this bit of excellence. Anybody want to start a poll to see how long it takes for someone in the manosphere to imply that these people deserve to have violent things done to them? I call between two hours and two hours ten minutes.
Half of me is glad that this is getting attention from people with real power to expose and bring down hate groups.
Half of me is, shamefully, heating up a big ol’ pot of popcorn.
A surprisingly reasonable discussion of the article in r/mensrights:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qnxyb/til_southern_poverty_law_center_thinks/
This. Is. So. Awesome.
Also: I wonder how this will affect the people who consider themselves to be “moderate” MRAs. I wonder if being “officially” declared a hate group will have any sort of polarizing effect on the r/mensrights guys, for instance.
It seems like this could create a rift between people actually re-evaluating their beliefs and who they associate with, and people just digging further into “it’s an equal rights movement!” denial.
Oh, I get it. “Surprisingly reasonable” in that they’re slightly less horrible than normal? XD
Seriously, there’s a dude in there who is saying he’s done supporting the SPLC. He knows what they do, he follows their work, and he has that little self-reflection.
I’m not really surprised. SPLC makes it their mission to track down hate groups. As harmless as the MRM is in general, it’s still a group that advocates hate and violence, it just lacks the courage of its convictions to do so openly.
Right the fuck on!
It’s about time that a mainstream social justice organization started paying attention to these guys. I’ve been wondering when the ACLU will get involved.
“Anybody want to start a poll to see how long it takes for someone in the manosphere to imply that these people deserve to have violent things done to them?”
Most of the people involved are men, so I’m expecting less violent threats this time and more whining about manginas and traitors.
@Cassandra
Yep, the most extreme vitriol and rape threats are only reserved for women!
I wonder how much it disturbs them inside knowing there are men out there who don’t despise women or the gains women have made in society
Men’s rights is such a terrible name. Anyone who supports justice of any kind would obviously be against problems that some people legitimately face (false accusations, punitive alimony, etc.)
The problem is that so many of the MRAs are complete nutjobs that they hurt the cause of real justice.
Rutee, “surprisingly reasonable” compared to the sort of crap I expected them to say. Though it’s worth noting that many of the worst MR regulars haven’t weighed in yet.
Yep.
The author of the SPLC piece, who is a guy, hasn’t gotten any nasty personal comments directed towards him yet that I’ve seen.
Contrast that with r/mensrights’ treatment of Rebecca Watson in this thread today.
http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/qn5kh/rebecca_watson_about_my_refusal_to_debate_you/
@CassandraSays
Yes, that’s a very good point. Since there are no obvious women to point fingers at (as far as I can tell), the fact that the one discussion is ‘surprisingly reasonable’ makes perfect sense.
ninja’d by David, of all people! The shame, it burns…
Aw, MarkyMark got a mention. I loved SPLC’s description of him and some of the others.
This is the kind of shit that I guarantee you no one will say about Arthur Goldwag.
Have any of the women they’ve targeted ever contacted any sort of legal representatives or authorities?
Honestly, I keep wondering if someone is going to report Elam’s vague threats about inflicting pain on feminists to the FBI. He’s being vague enough that he’s not technically breaking any laws, but otoh he seems to basically be suggesting that his supporters get involved in a conspiracy to cause physical harm to people which would presumably cross state lines. Isn’t that the FBI’s territory? I know we have at least one lawyer among the regulars. At what point do vague online threats cross the line into something that’s legally actionable?
From this article: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2012/spring/a-war-on-women
Oh the sweet, sweet, irony xD
It was the FBI who responded to those awful subreddits, wasn’t it? Someone should just contact the FBI about Elam’s most troublesome statements or make another Change.org petition or the like. How does contacting the FBI work, anyway?
Why is it always ugly girls that are the loudest feminists?
I am eternally baffled that “yeah, well, I don’t want to fuck you, so THERE” keeps being the go-to insult in response to a woman saying something one disagrees with. Heck, speaking as someone with massive body image issues, some idiot on the internet saying, “YEAH WELL YOU’RE UGLY” at me in response to an argument I made would just make me laugh, so who the heck do they think is actually bothered by this terribly clever rejoinder? Misogynist dudes, do you really, really believe Rebecca Watson is clamoring for your approval of her appearance? Because, y’know, I’m pretty sure she doesn’t actually want to fuck any of you.
I just finished reading the watson reddit thread…
The irony!!!! It burns!!!!!!!!
Also, surprisingly civil discussion for a MRM thread…
“I don’t want to fuck you” is only an effective threat/hurtful insult if the person it’s being said to is sexually or romantically interested in the person saying it.
It’s particularly odd when people throw it around in online arguments where you know that they don’t actually know what the person they’re yelling at looks like.
I think the logic goes like:
A) The only thing women are good for is fucking.
B) You are no good for fucking.
C) Therefore, you are no good for anything!
Whether point A is sincerely believed, or is meant to be a further insult… varies.
It’s particularly odd when people throw it around in online arguments where you know that they don’t actually know what the person they’re yelling at looks like.
Yeah, that’s my favorite. Possibly the best example of this ever happened a couple of years ago when a friend of mine had a guy online respond to a post criticizing dudes who harass women on the street (specifically using the example, “Hey, hot tits!”) by saying something like, “You’re just jealous that guys will never call your ugly fatty tits hot!”
My friend is a skinny hipster dude. His “ugly fatty tits” became a heck of a running joke thereafter.
Buttman | March 8, 2012 at 6:46 pm
“So how soon can we expect an explanation for why the Southern Poverty Law Center is all a part of the international feminist conspiracy?”
The $PLC is far worse than any feminist organization.
Yeah… Okay then.
Truth be told, there WERE some people writing SPLC reports back when that had a tendency to throw people who, while not exactly forward thinking, were simply conservative in with “neo-confederates” and “militia groups” but that was a few years ago and to the best of my knowledge “the people responsible have been sacked.”* I also had a few personal run ins with some people (It involved dungeons and dragons, and it’s a long story) involved way back when that did not make me think well of them as people. All that does not mean it is not a good organization on the whole, or that it does not do good things, or that it is not right on the mark with Elam et al.
*And somehow I doubt none of that has anything to do with your negative impression of the organization.
ANY of that.
I want to join in on popcorn, may I bring candy? I promise it’s un-opened!
Also, glad to see Elam being called out specifically for Register Her (or whatever the name is)
@Buttlad
“So how soon can we expect an explanation for why the Southern Poverty Law Center is all a part of the international feminist conspiracy?”
The $PLC is far worse than any feminist organization.
Ahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
*breathes*
Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Dude, you missed your calling in life. You should have been a standup comedian.
Seriously, you and your ilk are in good company with the Klan and the Aryan Nations (horses excepted, of course). You know who you hate, and you do so unreservedly. It just fries you when others see you for what you are.
Unfortunately, Paul Elam has such a poisonous and bloated ego, he’ll take this as a sign that he’s finally arrived to the big leagues. Which in a way he has, but it’s not for anything good.
Heartiste/Roissy should be added to their list of websites as he has said women voting ruined western civilization, has advocated slapping women because it turns them on and a shitload of other borderline rapey shit.
But hey, I wont complain because this is pretty awesome as it is :D
I don’t know about you all, but I’m prepared to call this a huge victory for the MRM. Not only will there message be spread far and wide, but the $P1C is finally being exposed as the evil feminazi conspiracy group all of my buddy’s said it was. Of course, they always added “no offense to nazis” afterwards… hmmm.
Anyway, revolution is brewing my friends. A new day will dawn where the MRM, billions of men strong, will proclaim out to the world “we won’t take your shit anymore!” Plus, bad publicity is free publicity, am I right? Just look how things are going for the WBC! Swell… Just… swell.
I can’t wait for the entire week of posts, the proud addition to his “media mentions” wall, and the demand for $5000 to have commemorative plates printed.
Doesn’t seem to have gone up yet, though; the current top post is “Does Feminism Cause Brain Damage?”
…really now.
In a Machiavellian kind of way I hope Elam does bask in the attention. It’s when he’s feeling ignored that I start worrying that he’s going to hurt someone, or get one of his fans to do so, in a non-Internet way.
Holly, I would buy a commemorative plate. I wonder what one would look like.
Oh, omg, Elam Commemorative Plates? Awesome!
It’d be shaped like a woman and read “Patience brothers, our sandwiches will be here any day now!”
Ugh…I’m arguing with an MRA right now. He insists the entire SPLC article is based on nonsense, because “the MRM and the father’s rights movement are not the same thing.”
Ideas for a response?
Reading Elam’s history all laid out like that was vomit-inducing. What a sociopath he is. I’m glad they brought up cases like Sodini and Lepine. I think a lot of people have already forgotten Sodini and perhaps never even heard of the Montreal shootings.
Heartiste/Roissy will be bummed that he didn’t get a cite, but RooshV did…
Can’t. Stop. Laughing. Honestly, this is so awesome, I want to throw confetti.
@kita:
They aren’t the same organization, but they’re both pretty solidly misogynistic and anti-woman?
About fucking time.
Haha, the Redditors think Futrelle’s behind the whole thing, to the extent that he wrote the article on the SPLC website.
@Crumbelievable:
Oooh, and apparently the title “Does Feminism cause brain damage” isn’t misogynistic because… wait for it… feminism =/= women. ^_^ I suppose that could be technically true, but come on… Do you really think there won’t be any misogyny in that broadcast?
Oh, and there’s this, posted a couple hours after the SPLC thread. I smell damage control. XD
So, yeah, posting this article on my Facebook to spread the word.
And yes, I WILL be making popcorn…WITH STEVIA! :D
Here’s the commemorative plate.
Great plate, Katz!
Echoing several previous commenters….someone HAS to get Roissy/Chateau Heartiste on that list. He’s as bad as any of them and perhaps more dangerous because he’s actually intelligent. (I hate to give any of them, least of all him, any more publicity,though.)
@Kirby
Notice how AntiFeministMedia got downvoted and hidden too.
Whatever, that post is bullshit. They’re only extending thanks to the women in the MRM…aka the women who agree with every single thing they say and overlook their misogyny. The rest of us who don’t drink the koolaid are then enemy and to be threatened, vilified and harassed and or at best, lumped in with all the other “Ameriskanks”. Pathetic that they think anyone with half a brain will fall for such tripe.
Buttman: The $PLC is far worse than any feminist organization.
The only people I know with an issue with the SPLC are butthurt neo-confederates and other assorted nazis who don’t like the fact that they actually point it out when mainstream Republicans have friends in the far right underground, unlike deferential journalists who still cling to the idea that the Republican party isn’t rotting from the inside with protofascists.
It is as if they do not realize that all of their postings are on the internet. Guys, we can see what you post. No one will be fooled by CYA stuff now.
I’ve come to expect sexism from MRAs, but the idea that anyone hates the SPLC? What, do you hate puppies and sunshine too?
FYI, men’s rights groups aren’t actually on the SPLC’s official list of hate groups (presumably because they don’t qualify as “groups”). The SPLC just wrote about them.
This is so awesome! The Southern Poverty Law Center did a great job on their research for this article. I’m glad to know such a large, reputable organization is keeping tabs on the MRM.
The myth list is great.
I’m boggling at this line:
“All he had done, he said, was smack his 4-year-old daughter and bloody her mouth after she licked his hand as he was putting her to bed.”
If you hit a four year old in the face hard enough to draw blood, you’re a child abuser. End of story. And the MRAs are trying to make this guy into a martyr?
Or maybe these groups are not all motivated by hate. Either way, good call katz. I was about to dismiss SPLC as just another irrelevant, noxious manifestation of the feminist agenda, but given that they haven’t placed sites like The Spearhead, AVFM and SAVE on the hate list just yet, perhaps this would be premature.
If the SPLC wants to remain relevant, then they have to remain credible. Strong views backed up with verifiable, reliable evidence (as per the publications of TS, AVFM and SAVE) do not constitute hate. Maybe the SPLC, to their credit, has got at least this much right. Or maybe they realize that if push came to shove, then feminists themselves would have to be brought to account for the hate that characterizes their movement. After all, are not affirmative action and VAWA unconstitutional, state-sponsored sexism directed against men? No comparable state-sponsored hate is implemented against women. I say to the SPLC – bring it on, because it will bring the face of this grotesque, feminist beast into the bright light of day.
Hesster
that was my reaction to that line too.
all he had done? all he had done? it make me feel sick.
Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Something is right with the world. This is making my moment. Still digesting. High fives all around.
I told you, I told you this is racism. I know you know that, but…
Ok going to read links.
I’m trying to wrap my head around the mindset that would consider “well I only smacked my toddler and made her mouth bleed because she licked me” to be the thing that you say when you’re trying to present yourself in a good light and argue that you’re not abusive. And failing.
chuckee, why do you minimize the violence and the violent threats, the publishing of private information, the SUPPORT of Thomas Ball? He would be a good soldier in the war? So what would the MRM have to do in your eyes for an intelligence report by SPLC to be justified?
You have a pretty extreme bar. It doesn’t surprise me that a person that supports the MRM blogosphere and activities would not see things clearly. I mean they constantly go on as if FEMINISTS are the ones acting like this. But where are the websites like manboobz that are taking from the femosphere? You can’t find anything like this on feminist blogs. But there’s so much on the MRM blogs/reddit that David can post an entry a day or more. And it’s horrible stuff. EVERY DAY is Sharon Osbourne day, and the MRM thinks it’s ok.