Quiz: What makes an MRA maddest? (Pussy-begging A Voice for Men edition.)
Pussy begging at its worst
Several days ago, angry-MRA-dude hub A Voice for Men ran a guest post from someone identified only as Phil in Utah entitled “How I became an MRA: Domestic violence advocacy.” After Phil’s post in question drew some criticism from some of the AVfM regulars who didn’t see it as radical enough, site founder and head cheese Paul Elam felt it necessary to take Phil to task for one of the statements he made in the post.
So let’s have a quick quiz. Here are three quotes taken from Phil in Utah’s post. Which of them is the one that drew Elam’s ire?
- “[F]eminists only support the rights of women who agree with them, and have no qualms throwing disagreeing women under the bus.”
- “[T]he idea that women are hurt more than men by being abused is a load of crap.”
- “I still believe that men who brutalize women are the scum of the Earth.”
ANSWER: Did you guess #1? Wrong. While this statement isn’t actually true, Elam didn’t object to it. How about #2? While this statement is also untrue – numerous studies show that women are far more likely to be seriously injured by domestic violence than men – Elam didn’t object to it either. Nope. He objected to statement #3. That is:
I still believe that men who brutalize women are the scum of the Earth.
How could any decent human being possibly object to this? Here’s Elam explanation:
I admit I flinched a little when I read this. Clearly these are words rooted in old world sexist notions about violence; that somehow men who brutalize women are worse than women who brutalize men. It is old programming that tends to swim around in the unconscious even after the first few rounds of red pills.
Now, I should note that Phil didn’t actually say, or imply, that “men who brutalize women are worse than women who brutalize men.” Indeed, he spent most of the essay arguing that DV against men needed to be taken more seriously. If anything, he minimized violence against women, by denying the fact that women are indeed more likely to be seriously injured by their male partners than male partners are to be seriously injured by women.
Evidently, for Elam and others on AVfM, straightforward expressions of enmity against men who brutalize women are a form of “latent misandry.”
But we’re only just getting started here. As it turns out, Elam was less troubled by Phil’s “misandry” than he was by some of the nastier attacks on Phil and other
new MRA’s who are ‘getting it’ but have not had the time or opportunity to fully refine their understanding of the modern zeitgeist.
Indeed, one commenter had even gone so far as to call poor Phil “pussy-footed.” And yet another called him a “mangina/white knight.” This, Elam announced, would not do!
MRA’s name calling and shaming other MRA’s is not constructive. It is petty alpha-gaming … .
In other words, it’s the sort of thing that guys do to try to impress the chicks. And that’s bad.
[A] significant part of the dynamics that hinder progress in the MRM is the innate friction between men which is driven by an undercurrent of sexual competition. Our unfortunate programming is to apply downward pressure on each other in order to vie for sexual selection.
On MRA blogs, this is often described with the scientific term “pussy begging.” Elam continued:
Feminism is an outgrowth of chivalry. It is dependent on male sexual competition to thrive. In short, misandry, feminism, the stinking lot of it, is a human problem rooted in men’s mindless competition for women. We don’t get out of that competition by simply rejecting women or Going Our Own Way. We get out of it by identifying and respectfully challenging the elements of that competition when they prove dysfunctional, as in going after MRA’s for blood any time we imagine they are not 100% on message. This conduct, when distilled down to its essence, is just a tell-tale artifact of pussy-centric masculinity.
So, in other words, MRAs who call other MRAs pussy-begging manginas are themselves … pussy-begging manginas.
Such is MRA logic.
Posted on February 15, 2012, in a voice for men, alpha males, chivalry, evil women, hypocrisy, internal debate, it's science!, kitties, manginas, MGTOW, misandry, misogyny, MRA. Bookmark the permalink. 316 Comments.
How about people who beat others are evil and wrong? Regardless of the genders involved? Could we get any MRAs to ever agree to that?
Probably not. MRAs just want to insist that women are the ultimate evil, no matter what.
if nothing else, mras are pioneers in the field of making excuses
Pardon me but I seem to remember something an MRA said about feminists and/or women having a hivemind. Totally unlike these brave soldiers for Men’s Rights! Right?
I think it’s hilarious that Elam of all people is concerned about name calling in the MRM. It’s like listening to Newt Gingrich talk about “family values”.
I had the same thought. Isn’t “people who beat other people are the scum of the earth” the most egalitarian and comprehensive form of that particular message?
Or is that just my oppressive misandrist feminism talking again?
I’m getting to the point where I’d feel MORE comfortable if these guys just came out and endorsed beating women and legalizing rape, instead of playing all these damn games. Everything they say heavily, heavily implies a pro-abuse stance and they may as well just say it already.
Elam thinks he’s a lot smarter than he actually is, a common MRA misconception.
I like that Elam says he is , “respectfully respectfully challenging the elements of that competition when they prove dysfunctional.”
Respectfully saying that he hopes another man gets raped.
I’m glad I’ve never seen what he thinks of as being disrepectful, much less abusive.
I’d have to agree.
At this point, it’s the “but it is really a natural/humane/acceptable stance to have!” rationalization of the abuse (which couldn’t REALLY be abuse since it is natural, humane, and acceptable) that gives me the headache.
@pecunium
he draws the line at plausible deniability, which for elam seems to mean that as long as you speak in innuendo nobody can pin your negative statements to you. so fantasize about violent retribution all you want, just don’t suggest you’ll be the one to do it, because then they’ll be on to us.
he thinks he’s trading in dog whistles but its more like standing on the porch shouting fido’s name
MRA’s name calling and shaming other MRA’s is not constructive. Calling other men “white knights” or “manginas” is A-OK with me.
Elam is a clown. I look forward to every article that he reads. I started reading his stuff about 18 months ago and, if I’m honest, got concerned that the MRM had a spokesperson who wasn’t quite obviously deranged. He’s semi-articulate but utterly lacking in critical thinking (and reality). But anyway, my concern got washed away quickly, by an angry tempest of deluded rhetoric (as Elam might say).
The guy is an absolute fool. But word for word, John the Other is far funnier.
Elam found a gay guy somewhere to write for his tacky little blog. It’s hilarious how the anus named posters avoid him.
*writes, not reads.
I am a daily (twice daily) reader of AVfM. Does this make me an MRA? Or just a student with too much time on my hands?
Funny. An MRA says one reasonable thing, and every other MRA wants to rip his throat out. Unbelievable.
Hi everyone. Long time reader, first time poster. How are you all doing?
I can’t read an entire post by JohntheOther. I’ve tried a few times, but had to stop halfway through out of boredom. Elam is also a boring writer, but I think he’s a little less wordy.
Kendra: Neither of them holds a candle to Fidelbogen.
“Elam found a gay guy somewhere to write for his tacky little blog. It’s hilarious how the anus named posters avoid him.”
Yesterday, someone on Youtube mentioned a supposed quote from Elam saying that homosexuality was not natural and that until 150 years ago there were no cases of someone being born gay. I asked them to give me the source. Hopefully they get back to me soon.
@Pecunium, I agree. Fidelbogen is the gold standard in dull, wordy writing. JtO gets an honorable mention.
@Crumbelievable
MRA doesn’t stand for Men’s Rights Activist, but rather MRAs’ Rights Activist.
MRARAs.
Or, if you consider their attitude that only right-thinking “real” MRAs (not those “masculist” manginas!) are worthy of respect…
MRARARAs.
I really wish I could draw a picture illustrating one of the comments on another AVfM post, “The Golden Uterus Syndrome.” I wondered if maybe uteri came in levels like credit cards or Olympic medals, but it turns out the phrase just means that “a woman thinks she deserves special privileges just because she has given birth to a child.” One of the commenters (Pendelton) wrote of “The living hell a man goes through where the golden uterus lives on his back and shoulders 24/7, also using his children to dump on and chump off him has got to be comparably unbearable.” Now I have this bizarre mental image of a man going about his day with a golden uterus living on his back and shoulders. How would he sleep? Would he have to get all of his coats altered? Would he qualify for reasonable accommodation under the ADA? Would this make a good reality show? So many questions.
….Wait. Did they just, accidentally, almost make the argument, wherein hyper-masculine gender reinforcement of male competition for the sake of The Elusive Pussy might actually… be counter-productive?
I mean, holding aside for the moment what they (MRA’s) might consider the ideal world… I think Elam just managed to articulate a Male Feminist perspective for gender equality. (Oops?)
Sure, sure, a golden uterus on your back would be uncomfortable, but it still beats the hell out of having one actually inside your pelvis. I mean OW.
No empathy, these guys.
Uh… pregnant and recently-pregnant people OUGHT to have special accommodations, on account of that whole “growing a baby and pushing it out your vag” thing is hard.
And people who are primary caregivers should ALSO have special accommodations, because they are working an extra full-time job taking care of children.
Hey, what does “dump on and chump off him” mean? Is that that thing where children have needs and they sometimes go to their father instead of their mother (assuming they have one of both) to get those needs fulfilled? Yeah, Golden Uterus Moms totally egg those little monsters on to do that shit.
I think the dump on and chump off is that she can “dump them” on him, when she wants to go out, and she can also, “use them” to get money from him.
Because you know that when she says little Timmy needs new shoes, she’s getting a manicure.
Ozy had a recent post at NSWATM where zie discussed how the Census Bureau described fathers as mere babysitters for their own children. Here’s an area where men are treated badly, like they’re not as good at nurturing and caregiving as mothers. The MRA’s, though, don’t make much fuss about that stereotype unless they’re getting a divorce and want custody. Otherwise, a lot of them act like taking care of children is the most degrading activity on earth (“women’s work”). Hey MRA’s, if you want to fight sexist stereotypes against men, you should stop saying things like “also using his children to dump on and chump off him”.
The comment section on the Golden Uterus article (which is on The Spreadhead, not AVFM) is, as to be expected, a comedy goldmine:
“Women’s value is defined by what they have. Which is a vagina, uterus, and babymaking capability. Hence the self-entitlement and the probable evolutionary adaptation of selfishness and reliance on emotional solipsism and manipulation.
Men’s value is defined by what they do. Which is build absolutely everything, provide everything and advance civilization through their effort, rationality, intelligence, courage and sacrifice.” (42 up, 2 down)
Fidelbogen and JonhtheOther also love using ten dollar words when five dollar words would work better. Their smug pretentiousness is very annoying.
Um, I’ve got arms and legs and a head and stuff.
I love it.
It makes so much more sense now!
@crumbelievable
That sounds like NWOslave, except I’m guessing it’s not him because it doesn’t obsess over sexuality quite as much.
So all those women that built things-like say my Great Grandmother on her ranch-they did not actually build it. Even though in her case she actually nailed the wood in place but since I guess she bought the lumber, she did not really build it.
I don’t think the MRA’s have a problem with that stereotypes even when they talk about divorce. Even in divorce, they consider child care degrading, beneath them, and therefore “women’s work”. When they talk about “default shared custody”, they aren’t talking about sharing child care; they are talking about retaining control and decision-making authority over the child, while continuing to saddle the mother with all, or most, of the day-to-day physical work.
This sound a LOT like NWO’s theory of sexuality, that all women are just their parts.
You should read some of the linked articles in the golden uterus section! Had a great time chuckling over some of their personal mommy issues.
Also, the fifteen point list on symptoms of golden uterus….wow. How many women really act like that. Yes, I’m sure that there are some truly abusive, narcissistic women out there, but they aint all that common!
PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth: Yep, unless your grandmother chewed the trees down with her teeth (like the manly men), and karate chopped them into boards (like menly man), and then build her ranch, she didn’t REALLY build it.
Presents, without comment, or having looked at any of them, the results page from a google search for “the golden penis.”
Sauce, goose, gander.
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=the+golden+penis
Wait a minute, if women are defined by what they have, and men are defined by what they do, then why do women get shamed for sleeping around but men don’t?
I don’t know about the rest of the female hivemind, but my CV is five pages of things I have *accomplished.* It does not contain a single mention of any of my body parts.
@crumbelievable: Oops, thanks for correcting the citation!
Dani, if you did it, we all did it. That’s why we’re a hivemind.
True, the MRA’s would still want mom to do all of the physical work and take on all of the financial costs as well. Some of them remarry and expect the next wife to do all of the work, though. Either way, I don’t think many of them want to change diapers, attend parent-teacher conferences, break up sibling squabbles, or stay up all night with a feverish child. MRA’s want all of the benefits of parenthood with none of the responsibility.
I just noticed this: Exasperated by the latest round of the PUA/MRA wars, our friend Alex Novy says, “This community has an amazing ability of chasing away anyone sane.” I could not have said it better. :D
Er, try here.
Ahh, so now all the “written” works of the MRM are kooks, the real MRM is in video form? Well, I’m glad that’s settled then.
When Youtube videos are youur only source of reliable information, you know your movement is f*cked.
i love the inexplicable bolding of ‘great hope and optimism’
but if alek novy shows up here with a bunch of boring words about internal mrm politics, that is on your head
True, the MRA’s would still want mom to do all of the physical work and take on all of the financial costs as well. Some of them remarry and expect the next wife to do all of the work, though. Either way, I don’t think many of them want to change diapers, attend parent-teacher conferences, break up sibling squabbles, or stay up all night with a feverish child. MRA’s want all of the benefits of parenthood with none of the responsibility.
And yet how often do MRAs prattle “women want equal rights but not equal responsibilities”. lol
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Irony
“For the moment I will pretend that AVfM is the only MRA site on the planet, because that would be the only thing that can keep me sane.”
So, Alex Novy knows that AVfM is stupid, yet wants to pretend otherwise just to continue his bullshit.
Is it any wonder MRAs aren’t taken seriously?
BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!
“Originally I discovered the MRm through YouTube… In fact, the YouTube MRm community is helluva sane-r than the written MRM community.
Over the past years I have grown to feel like “the MRm is getting worse”, but I just realized that’s not true… It’s not that the MRM is getting worse, it’s that I had been reading more written MRM…
The nuttiest nutsos will never do videos, because it is very close to real life… Like BP said, the shame of voicing this crap in public is big. BP was saying how we need more in-real-life activism, because that weeds out the nutcases.
I think YouTube activism seems to be a close second… I think I’ll just start making videos soon, and try to contribute that way.”
lolololololololol
“Videos are the closest things to real like, that why SANE MRAs do videos.”
Never mind the ableism, Alex Novy just doesn’t know what YouTube is like AT ALL.
Well, that explains their frothing over the SCUM trailer I guess.
Morons with Ridiculous Aggrievement
I’m just trying to figure out how to even make sense of videos being the closest things to real life. What are our list of options? Wouldn’t real life be the closest thing to real life?
@Katz
The closest thing to real life would be some sort of VR I’m guessing. But considering MRAs view real life the way we view Proxima Centauri, I’m guessing they have way different answers
In that same thread, people are saying that the exposure of the MRM to the public eye means they are winning! If winning means having to abandoned most of your movement to avoid public scrutiny… You probably didn’t want to win in the first place.
Women are evolutionarily-wired to be manipulative bitches. That Stardusk guy (who was recommended in that post) made a video about it, so it must be true
Note to Dave: I tried to make this post earlier but screwed up typing my email address.
Shadow: But VR is real life! Or it will be very very soon! Right before we divide the nation in half down the Mississippi River.
Okaaayy.. So because the black pill has documented some proof that MRAs are racist, that shows that feminists are racist too….mkay.
Looks like the black pill is the same shit, different pile to me. Pretty bad when conservative thinking sounds almost appealing by comparison.
what exposure to the public eye?
In that case, Katz, congratulations on your law degree, your successful freelance writing business, and your recent hilarious blog post about Twilight. However, you might want to get started on your business tax returns ASAP, as you’ve put them off long enough. ;)
@Sharculese:
Elam has a tab on his site labeled ‘Mentions of AVFM in the Mainstream Media’. One is a NYT article calling the site “misogynistic”. One CBS piece criticizes one of Elam’s articles as “victim blaming”; the other two are fairly brief and neutral mentions. Elam seems to believe that greater exposure means that his movement is being taken seriously, but it just means there will be more people to laugh at him.
@Katz
I hear an ingenuous MRA has been working diligently and is THIS CLOSE to creating our new VR homeworlds.
@Crumbelievable
LMAO! I can’t believe Elam doesn’t cut himself to death whilst shaving in the morning cause he’s too busy laughing at himself in the mirror.
He already created them but his patent got stolen because they wanted to award it to a woman instead. So he got a job at a milk bottling plant.
When AntZ met NWO
The most horrifying romantic comedy that will ever come to theaters near you
I had my face shown on the news once, therefore the city of Compton has gotten more exposure and is being taken more seriously.
Hey, it makes just as much sense as Elams gloating over CBS owning him.
Elam and others have convinced themselves that it’s just the rabid and raving feminists that are bringing them down and criticizing them. I’ll bet dollars to donuts they are convinced that its evil feminist harpies at CBS that are attacking them, and if they could just get their message out to the masses they would incite revolution.
It couldn’t possibly be the message itself that’s the problem.
So according to the black pill, roissey and the other PUAs are really feminists??? O.o
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!!!!
I’ll give the dude points for his accurate take down of the underlying problems with how PUAs inherent hatred of men though. And his partial solution to what it takes to get dates.
Who wants to tell this guy he’s turning into a white knight?
“Who wants to tell this guy he’s turning into a white knight?”
Someone in the MRM probably already did. ;)
Yeah but hearing it from an accredited self proclaimed feminist but have more sting.
At least we can thank him for trying to set men straight about the pick up artist community. Or would we be blowing his cover?
What sayeth the commonality?
By the way, all women are sad because all women have watched the entire Earth Final Conflict series….and there will be no new ones :(
Crumbelievable – That video is even better than I thought it would be.