Upvoted on Reddit: “The problems in the sex [tourism] industry are mostly women’s fault.”
Today in Did That Really Get 196 Upvotes on Reddit: A Redditor claiming to be the owner of a brothel in Thailand explains how what he euphemistically calls the “problems in the sex industry” are mostly the fault of evil, lazy whores. Literally.
Let’s join the discussion already in progress. (ChaChaKrahp is the alleged brothel owner.)
A little further on in the discussion he makes this charming claim:
According to him, sex trafficking isn’t really a big issue, but when it does occur it “is more likely to victimize men” than women. (The main victims in his mind being trafficked men (by which I assume he means transwomen) … and male sex tourists.)
Those poor, poor Western sex tourists, suffering so at the hands of women and girls who’ve been kidnapped and sold into sex slavery!
But let’s just put this whole “trafficking” thing out of our heads. As ChaChaKrahp explains it, prostitution in Thailand is just a way for lazy ladies to make money. It’s totally on the up and up – “[j]ust like college girls in the US that work as strippers for $300 per night instead of picking strawberries for $50 per day.”
The only real problem is all those evil ladies ripping off dudes.
Did that last bit sound a little … MRAish to you?
Though this discussion isn’t in the Men’s Rights subreddit., ChaChaKrahp shares a lot of opinions and obsessions with the MRA crowd, peppering the discussion with MRA talking points on everything from dangerous jobs and breast cancer funding to false rape accusations and paternity fraud. While he claims not to “give a shit about MRA groups,” he links to prominent Father’s Rights site fathersandfamilies.com, and rails endlessly about the evils of feminism. He walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
While ChaChaKrahp seems quite sincere in his beliefs, this is the Internet, and so there’s a chance that this “brothel owner” is not actually a brothel owner at all, just some dude making this all up for Reddit karma points and lulz.
Even if that’s the case, we still have all those hundreds of Redditors who read his comments and happily upvoted them, either because they thought what he said was sensible or true, or because the thought of owning a brothel in Thailand gave them boners.
The question remains: does Reddit attract the worst representatives of those in its heavily young, male, geek demographic, or is this how most of these (mostly) guys really think — even if they don’t usually say so out loud?
(Thanks to ShitRedditSays for pointing me to this lovely thread.)
EDITED TO ADD: Brothel Owner under attack (by a few people)! Send in the r/mensrights upvote brigade to upvote him even more than he’s already being upvoted!!!
Posted on January 23, 2012, in $MONEY$, antifeminism, asian fetishist, creepy, evil women, lying liars, men who should not ever be with women ever, misogyny, MRA, oppressed white men, patriarchy, pussy cartel, racism, rapey, reactionary bullshit, reddit. Bookmark the permalink. 644 Comments.
???????????????????????
If that’s in response to my post, then you’ve completely misread it. If it’s not then I’m even more baffled.
I think the people that give Hugo support are the ones who agree with his particular views on masculinity, and think that he will be instrumental in deconstructing traditional masculinity, and therefore that he is needed.
@Burgundy
Oh yea…silly me. I forgot about that. Also that for some reason it profits the males in government to deny male victims services because there’s something ingrained in male biology to protect women and do whatever we say. Even the fat ugly butch feminists. Forget about history and all that too, they were just protecting our lady brains from voting and education and anything that didn’t involve baby making. It was out of love that they told us we were too dumb to do anything else than housework. All the misogyny on the internet? Silly. That’s just their way of telling us how special we are! Also because all men want to protect women, they burned a bunch of them at the stake and invented torture devices to keep us from talking.
It all makes SO MUCH SENSE!
I’m MRAL hate feminists because he has mommy issues. I’ve known guys like him in shyness forums and they hated their mothers.
The funniest part of the MRAL saga is that his logic seems to go as follows.
1. I have a persecution complex, which I am aware of.
2. I feel like people are persecuting me.
3. Obviously those feelings of persecution are reasonable and correct, and in no way a result of my persecution complex.
4. The world is out to get me because I’m a man!
5. Did I mention that I have a persecution complex? This of course has no effect on my beliefs about men, women, and the relative status thereof.
I don’t have mommy issues at all.
MRAL, female feminists get called out by other feminists all the time.Jaclyn Friedman wrote a piece recently that was, to put it mildly, a bit racially clueless; she apologized for it and donated the money she got from writing it. Amanda Marcotte’s It’s a jungle out there book was originally illustrated with images from old comic books, some of which were racist; she apologized and removed the images from all future editions of her book. Some of her critics felt that she had crossed a line, and haven’t forgiven her for it.
Has there ever been anything like this, though? And again, what if it was a female prof sleeping with her male students?
MRAL, if you’re going to be angry at feminists as a group for whatever reason, can it least be about something we’re done, rather than something we’d totally do, I just know it?
[i]I said that of course this guy is a douche, and almost certainly a troll. But these upvoters don’t take the time to consider that- it’s someone sympathizing with men (for once) and even more krazy, criticizing women (for once). They upvote, move on.[/i]
Women never get criticized? Are you kidding me! Almost every post on Reddit, almost every video on YouTube that “shows” how stupid and inferior women are gets a million upvotes and a million yes-men comments.
How about the legacy of intellectuals from Aristotle to Burke to Schopenhauer to Wieninger to Spengler who condoned and objectified women, and how those doctrines have been used as a basis for “understanding” and treating women for centuries. And even now in the 21st century sexist assholes still vindicate these doctrines as profound truth.
You want to be insulted in the most cruel and demeaning ways just for existing? Be a woman on the internet. I doubt many men could handle having their precious egos marred by 1/10th of the shit people say about women online all of the time.
You want people to threaten to rape and kill you, and at times even blackmail you? Be a woman who writes feminist blogs.
If you don’t find any of this funny you are a feminist who needs to get a sense of humor.
Yeah. Women never get criticized. Ever. We live in a society that hates men.
@burgundy
Nailed ittt
at least*
“MRAL, if you’re going to be angry at feminists as a group for whatever reason, can it least be about something we’re done, rather than something we’d totally do, I just know it?”
Also, I mean, has there ever been anything like this? Why not? Dammi,t I, MRAL, am so disappointed that no feminist prof has ever slept with lots of her students, as far as we know. Once of them should do that, just so we have a basis for comparison.
(He really has no idea how he comes across, does he?)
Boggi, I say again, the internet misogyny is a result of young men who feel marginalized by mainstream society.
I think I’m the only person who doesn’t give a shit about this Schwyzer business. I read the post on Feministe and on Amptoons, as well as his post on his blog and just find the whole thing uninteresting. Is it just me or do too many people give him too much attention? I dunno, maybe I’m not as invested on other feminist blogs as I am with this one.
What I do wonder though is can’t he get fired for airing all his dirty laundry online? first he admits he’s slept with students, now he admits he tried to kill his ex and himself in the past? can’t you get in trouble for this sort of thing? especially in the age of employers stalking employee’s facebook profiles to look for any tiny piece of dirt they can find on them?
Aw, I liked that post.
MRAL, the issue with Hugo isn’t simply sleeping with students; it’s, among other things, that he tried to murder his ex gf.
@ Quackers
Honestly I feel like giving Hugo lots of attention over this is just feeding his narcissism, which is what led to all the bad shit he did in the first place, which is why I’m not interacting with him directly, writing about him on my blog, etc.
I know that whenever I feel marginalised by mainstream society, my first course of action is to post hateful bullshit on Reddit. Why, what do you mob do?
By a society that glorifies dudes. Pull the other one, it’s got bells on.
Seriously, can’t these guys just write emo poetry until they outgrow this phase or something?
I don’t understand why it’s so hard for you to understand. Feminism is a movement that seeks to raise women’s position in society to one of equality. A man who tried to kill a woman because he thought she was 1) too weak to fight her addiction 2) only a representation of his “failure to help her” rather than a human being completely seperate from him is hardly consistent with feminist views. That he has not been willing to face any consequences, that he has not shown any sign of understanding exactly how fucked up shows that he’s not changed all that much. How do you think this MAN can be embraced by FEMINISM?!!!!
@BoggiDWurms
Spot on. Everything you said. These idiots who think women are never criticized either have their heads so far up their asses or are living in an alternate universe.
The irony? a lot of the criticism towards women are from men who are complaining that men are always criticized.
It’s not that men can’t be criticized; so can women (although the fyms will phreak out if you try this). But there’s a- I think indifference is the right word, misandry is a bit too strong- a sort of indifference to men. How many fucking Women’s Blah Blah Blah do we have?
Because why would anyone ever address inequities in a systemic fashion? That might me helpful or something and is not allowed in MARL world.
“Boggi, I say again, the internet misogyny is a result of young men who feel marginalized by mainstream society.”
No fuckwit, it’s from a bunch of creeps like you who have self esteem issues and just take it out on women. The poor wittle guy who calls women sluts and whores on the internet is just so oppressed because the group of people he’s insulting is marginalizing him by not kissing his ass or lining up to suck his dick.
MRAL: I think they’re pretty representative. So you think this mindset is more the norm than not (i.e. representative)?
Care to explain why that is, as opposed to merely rationalising why these guys have this mindset?
I said that of course this guy is a douche, and almost certainly a troll. But these upvoters don’t take the time to consider that- it’s someone sympathizing with men (for once) and even more krazy, criticizing women (for once).
Have you been reading Manboobz? Because this phrase you use “(for once)”, seems a bit hard to reconcile with someone who has half a brain, and reads Manboobz.
Once again, a persecution complex distorts one’s sense of reality, and the answer is therapy, not ranting on feminist blogs.
(Especially when the point where any reasonable person would realize that they’re never going to get what they want from this specific group of people and move on has long since passed.)
@CassandraSays
I’ve tried writing poetry. It’s hard! If I had had to rely on that to outgrow feeling marginalized by mainstream society, I’m not sure I would have ever gotten there.
And meh. I didn’t really think Schwyzer’s attempted murder-suicide post, 15-odd years after the fact, was that big of a deal. He got super fucked up and wanted to die, but changed his mind later. Honestly, I totally get that. Not that I’ve ever tried to kill myself, but once I got really, really, really high on some edibles- WAY over the line- and it was a nightmarish experience. I still smoke weed, but I’m much more careful now. This is a few years back. I remember walking around in the snow, barefoot, with a T-shirt on, and I had a burning urge to rip my nose off my face with pliers in the garage. At the same time (it was like a split personality) I was terrified I was going to actually do it. Then I punched myself in the face like five times, and passed out.
But if young men who feel aggrieved because the women who they like won’t have sex with them stop writing bad poetry where will the next generation of indie bands come from? I’m thinking of the health of the music industry here.
Why doesn’t my brother feel marginalized? why doesn’t he sit around all day insulting women online? why is he capable of having friendships with women?
Why aren’t my male friends feeling marginalized? why every time I bring up gender issues about either sex, or even MRA talking points they’re just not interested? why are they capable of having friendships or relationships with women and don’t regard a woman who turns them down as spitting on them and the rest of the male population?
Could it be that assholes that attack women on the internet are just…I dunno…assholes? what’s next MRAL? are internet racist just poor white guys marginalized by all the blacks, latinos and asians?
“And meh. I didn’t really think Schwyzer’s attempted murder-suicide post, 15-odd years after the fact, was that big of a deal.”
Of course you don’t, because the fact that he almost took someone else with him is irrelevant to you, because she was a woman and you’re a misogynist. This is why you will never understand what the feminist issue with Hugo is, and also why you are never going to get what you’re seeking on this forum.
Yeah, you seem to have glossed over the murder part. No one’s pissed at him for attempting suicide.
“”Boggi, I say again, the internet misogyny is a result of young men who feel marginalized by mainstream society.””
The internet misogyny IS mainstream society.
If the post had been about attempted suicide alone he’d have been swamped with expressions of sympathy, actually.
“Boggi, I say again, the internet misogyny is a result of young men who feel marginalized by mainstream society.”
In other words: “Mainstream society is mean to me so I’m going to beat up on women”
Wow.
You realise that’s the logic of a serial abuser? Right?
I’m not sure what MRAL imagines “mainstream society” consists of, but I’m pretty sure quite a few people here could make some entertaining guesses.
Okay, he wanted to murder someone, and changed his mind. I’m not trying to gloss anything over.
The woman who was nearly murdered may find it to be a big deal.
People of good conscience find it to be a big deal.
You do realise that murder, i.e. killing people, is a Big Deal, don’t you? And not usually a Good Idea?
It’s very strange. I have very different feelings regarding racial inequalities, xenophobia, gay rights, all that stuff… namely, I have no problem with them. I’ll fully cop to being a privileged white straight American.
@Cassandra
Yeah there’s something very smarmy about him I don’t like. It’s like he’s using feminism to alleviate his guilt or to prove to himself he’s a good person…I dunno. Something about him is arrogant and self serving. I don’t really bother reading his stuff. I certainly don’t hate him, if anything I’m just “meh” about him. But that’s the impression I get from his online persona…arrogant.
I really hope that doesn’t mean what I parsed it to mean.
MRAL, clarify please – when you say “I have no problem with them,” do you mean you have no problem acknowledging that there are disparities, or that you don’t mind that the disparities exist?
You did gloss over it because your whole post was about how you can sympathise with his suicidal bad trip and so you didn’t find the post that bad. People found the post bad because he wanted to take someone else with. Like Cassandra said (pun intended), if it had just been an attempted suicide, decent people would have been extremely sympathetic. It’s the murder part that sticks in everyone’s craw
Quakers, Hugo’s writing was gross long before the murder attempt confession. Entirely too much “look at me, I alone am atoning for the sins of men crap”
Right, because if Valenti, or Marcotte, or Digby (you know the woman who kept her internet persona neuter for years, because that way she didn’t get the hate mail and the death threats), had confessed to committing attempted murder of a man… that shit would have been ignored.
And… what with the “(for once)”?
I think he’s saying he has no problem accepting his racial privilege, it’s “male disposability” that he’s hopped up on
You can probably identify with them because race and homophobia affect men too. You don’t relate with feminist issues because you don’t identify with women, nor do you like them. Basically, you’re a misogynist turd.
Right, not that it shouldn’t be objectionable. But my point is that being really under the influence is fucking crazy. You are not in your right mind, to say the least. Now, the fact that he was taking all that shit is his fault, but at the same time, I don’t see how it can be spun as anything other than extreme irresponsibility.
I think what the ass means is that he isn’t hostile towards people who fight against those issues, whereas he’s hostile to feminists because he hates women.
Schwyzer got so much hate mail he posted IP addresses of a bunch of people. Kind of shoots down that theory, Pecunium.
MRAL, does it strike you as weird at all that you absolutely hated this man… until you heard that he was being attacked for wanting to kill a woman?
@Bostonian
I honestly never read much of his stuff. The stuff I did read was too stuck up so I stopped.
@MRAL:
Hatemail is not a zero-sum game.
What theory… that he is being treated differently than a woman would be? Look at you, the attempted murder… you don’t give a shit.. it was all the drugs and the depression.
Amanda Marcotte says she thinks the Duke Boys commited rape and she’s still getting hate mail and death threats years later.
Pull the other one.
You seem to be shooting down a theory that Pecunium didn’t put forward
@lowquacks
shhh, you’ll summon NWO
@lowquacks
it’s like they found a common bond in hurting women!
kinda like when racist MRAs will accept non-white MRAs. The common ground? hating women!
No, I still hate him, but looking at it objectively- and treating Hugo as a prototypical Male Feminist, ignoring his individual views- this is pretty pathetic, e-witch hunting of the highest order.
Quackers, it’s because your brother is normal. This MRAL idiot gets super high on edibles and wants to take his nose off with a pair of pliers.
No, it is not witch hunting to object to murder.
What is pathetic is the sudden outpouring of support for the would be murderer.
No, Pecunium, Marcotte said:
“[People who defend the Duke lacrosse players are] rape-loving scum.”
“Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it? So unfair.”
This is after the hoax was basically exposed, by the way. And she never apologized. Frankly, I think she should have gotten a lot more grief.
ACTUALLY! This is a perfect example of the double standards. Why wasn’t she scourged?
No, seriously Dave, could you please ban the lying, derailing, attention-hogging little shit smear?
Gainsbourg has never been high, apparently.
Or at least set some variation on the B_____n challenge?
@Gainsbourg69
LOL! good point :D
@Seraph
agreed.
She did not attempt murder, for one. She did not sleep with students she was in charge of.
Pecunium said:
(you know the woman who kept her internet persona neuter for years, because that way she didn’t get the hate mail and the death threats)
implies that she didn’t disclose her gender because females get more such threats, which is untrue- look at Schwyzer. Not that he didn’t deserve it, but, you know.
Is it seriously possible to both read prettymuch everything posted on man boobz ever and think that?
You know, I like the discussion of music far more than the MRAL show and/or “sex tourists are the real victims!”
I’m listening to Throbbing Gristle’s “Hamburger Lady.” What’s everyone else up to?