MRAs and Children First: The Spearhead on the Costa Concordia disaster
From The Spearhead, where feminists dying is HILARIOUS.
Most of the coverage of the Costa Concordia disaster at the moment seems to be focusing on the Italian cruise ship’s captain and his douchey behavior, which involved not only running the ship aground but also abandoning ship prestissimo while passengers remained trapped on board.
MRAs, by contrast, are using the tragedy as an excuse to rail against the notion of “women and children first” and, of course, to make jokes about women drowning.
Now, the Titanic aside, “women and children first” isn’t now, and hasn’t ever really been, the standard way to evacuate those on a sinking ship, though many in the public — including some of those who were on board the Costa Concordia – seem to believe that it is. (See here for more details on how evacuations are typically handled these days; generally only those with mobility problems are given special treatment.)
In the case of this particular evacuation, some on board apparently tried to enforce an informal “women and children” policy, but many men weren’t willing to wait.
What’s got some MRAs in a snit is that some people, in the media and online, are calling these dudes cowards. In The Daily Mail, a right-wing British tabloid, A N Wilson wrote:
[I]n our day, with the advent of feminism and the professional woman, chivalry and manners are considered stuffy and old-fashioned.
As the father of three daughters, I do not, with a single fibre of my being, wish to go back to a time when women could not have the vote or get a university degree. Nor do I, surrounded by extremely strong-charactered and intelligent women in my family and among my friends, feel tempted to regard women as the frail sex.
But the fact remains that there is a longing among most men to protect women and children, and chivalry is simply a manifestation of that longing.
And whatever transpires about the reason for the Costa Concordia disaster, the disappearance of a chivalric code is a sorry reflection on society today.
This is not what you’d call a feminist argument; it’s a traditionalist argument, published in a tabloid rag that’s generally quite hostile to feminism.
Nonetheless, some MRAs are using the Costa Concordia disaster as an opportunity to deliver a big “told you so!” to the … imaginary feminists who live in their head.
Over on The Spearhead, where one familiar commenter actually described Wilson’s Daily Mail article as “feminist,” guest poster Lyn87 wrote:
The MRM is getting more vocal, and a lot of guys are now saying, “You wanted equality. This is what it looks like.” And they are saying it aloud and in public. Even a few women chimed in, saying that men have no obligation to die for women if women want equality. (Somehow I suspect there wasn’t much, “I am woman, hear me roar, watch me drown” on the Costa Concordia itself, but hey, it’s a start.)
MRAs: Always up-to-the-minute with their pop culture references!
This post was helpfully illustrated with a stock photo of a woman drowning.
Commenters got in their digs as well.
Keyster riffed on Lyn87’s incredibly au courant Helen Reddy reference:
I am woman hear me…blurp….rah…gurgle…raha…ffftt…orr…roar…gurgle…help me…somebody…fffft…please…blurp…help…help me please!
Aharon told both ladies and fish what’s what:
I eat fish. Fish don’t eat me. My life is too precious to sacrifice it so some spoiled bitch can have a pussy pass into the life boats.
Anti Idiocy got all hypothetical-cruise-ship tough guy on us:
Anyone who attempts to keep me on a sinking ship because of the genitals with which I was born is attempting to murder me. I have the right to respond accordingly.
And Thomas Tell-truth kicked chivalry – not to mention basic human decency — to the ocean floor:
Equality means that when the ship is going down and you are a woman, you had better get out of my way or you are going to drown with my footprints on your back.
Apparently Thomas Tell-truth is actually George Costanza:
Jeb, meanwhile, offered a more scientific rationalization for being a complete douchenozzle:
As far as I’ve heard, the one and only sport in which women naturally out-do men is endurance swimming. Women are also more bouyant, and as survivalists will explain, women float easiest on their backs (making it easy to breathe while expending minimal energy) whereas men float easiest in “the dead man’s float” (ie. face down, head in the water) and must expend more energy to stay alive. Furthermore, women have more body-fat than men which insulates them better against aquatic dangers such as hypothermia.
Given all these factors it is quite rational for men to pick women up by the seat of their pants and toss them overboard to make way for men and children to safely be rowed ashore on the lifeboats.
It’s all about doing the right thing and saving lives, after all.
MRA humor is very sophisticated indeed.
EDITED TO ADD: The Spearhead has put up a followup post, once again taking aim at imaginary “lifeboat feminists,” though the only person the post cites lamenting the end of “women and children” is Rich Lowry from the National Review (not a feminist publication).
Posted on January 18, 2012, in antifeminism, douchebaggery, evil women, gloating, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, that's not funny!, the fucking titanic, the spearhead. Bookmark the permalink. 1,082 Comments.
CB: To be fair to White Star, they didn’t have the materials science to know the significant brittle-making effect the cold water would have on the hull.
They are completely to blame for an insufficiency of lifeboats.
People here can read?
Rutee Katreya:
“Oh little mediocrity, do you think this will make everyone forget you haven’t actually substantiated your claims?”
Eh? The only claim to my name was the verbal bitch-slapping I laid upon Xtra’s initial piece of mathematical illiteracy. Anything else is likely nothing more than the fevered product of your own hyperactive little imagination.
Little Mediocrity is your new name around here. It fits you better than Geese. Or do you prefer Tiny Halfass?
Nice trying to ding me with insults about originality when yours come from the Mel Gibson traffic stop playbook and whatever MRA cesspool you hail from. Sugartits? How very 2007 of you.
Tiny Halfass, there’s nothing for you here.
If men going to war is a sign that we don’t value men (rather than a sign that we want to send our “best and bravest” and think that means men), then why aren’t women allowed in combat positions? You’d think the guys would be all “I didn’t expect you to volunteer, but our unit is honored to have you” if fighting in wars was all about disposability.
Also, “free for all” is not a good alternative to “women and children first,” because in practice “free for all” favors men and also causes unnecessary casualties all over. It’s not just a choice between sexism or a stampede.
The good alternative is “children and people with mobility impairments first, then an orderly evacuation of adults in random order, crew out last.”
aMiRA:
“People here can read?”
Seems not, from the overall stupidity level of the replies I’ve received. Wot a swizz… :(
No wonder men commit suicide so much more often.
Because…? o_O
I CAN READ! :D
GEE-EE-EEE
um…
that word has too many sill a bowls… :(
hellkell:
“Tiny Halfass, there’s nothing for you here.”
‘Cept for heaps upon heaps of teh lulz. Many thanks!
aMIRA, nice to see you!
Because we’d have been conquered long ago, genius.
I’m sure the MRAL Student Thesis of Male Disposability would be chock-full of researchy goodness.
Actually, women try and commit suicide in higher numbers than men. Fewer of them choose particularly violent deaths, and so fewer of them succeed in committing suicide. It’s pretty trivially easy to check, actually. I’m not sure why we pretend hat the problem is anything but patriarchal narratives of violence and ruggedness.
You forgot the reference to his “enormous schlong” … I mean, that’s gotta win the argument, sorta like TAB posting a link to that picture of himself and thereby rendering any and all counter-arguments null and void.
He should have saved “enormous schlong” for later in the game. Oh, well, probably not the first time he’s shot his wad early.
Yes, I know, but every time you bring it up, MRA’s scream that women’s attempts are just “gestures”. I think it’s a combination of factors, actually. Since women are still primarily caretakers, it makes sense that they would choose less violent deaths, since they would be instinctively concerned about clean-up. Being perceived as more obligated towards minor children than men is a factor as well, however. And, of course, access to firearms.
“Try”, as in “I JUST WANT ATTENTION!!!!” If women wanted to kill themselves, they’d be dead. The difference is that if men fail at killing themselves they get shamed for being failures at yet another thing. Do you know how it feels to be regarded as a man who couldn’t even off himself? But if women “fail” to commit suicide they get “OH I NEVER REALIZED HOW IMPORTANT YOU ARE!” You could be a 2 and a “failed” suicide attempt would make you an 8 overnight. I’ve seen it, it turns my stomach.
Also, I don’t consider his name to be “little mediocrity”. That’s just all he is. He doesn’t merit a special nickname XD
And, of course, access to firearms.
Except laws restrict MEN from using guns, not women. Women can use all the guns you want to “defend” yourselves from us evil men. Poor, poor you.
LOLLLL
Pam: He’d not yet sunk to the level of trite seen in the need to point out his, “Ten inches of solid man meat”, which causes all the ladies to just melt into puddles of lustful anticipation of his cervix pounding mad skillz in the sack.
But hey, if he needs inspiration, there is always Literotica ready, willing and able, to give him a clever turn of phrase, or even something close to an original idea.
What’s puzzling to me isn’t the claim that his schlong is enormous, but that it’s apparently … donut-shaped? I don’t know, that shape is usually invoked as a symbol of female genitalia. Weird.
Pecunium:
“Yep… when you (in the very comment you pretend to not be talking about the present state of affairs), say things like, The whole part about the “women and children first” meme just sailed over your pointy little head, didn’t it?”
Er, yeah. Did it perhaps escape your attention that my reference to that meme was in response to wot’s-her-face’s attempt to falsely extrapolate a remark on my part about the overall historical trend with regards to special treatment towards women in disaster situations from my initial response to Xtra and her somewhat wonky grasp of basic mathematics?
Ie. can you grasp that it had nothing to do with the “present state of affairs”?
Historical trend != current state of affairs.
^ This news to you?
*sits back and listens to the echo of question ricocheting off the inner walls of Pecunium’s skull*
Really? Can you cite a single statute that restricts people from gun ownership on the basis of gender? I wait with baited breath.
I may regret this. But what the hell.
MRAL, you seem to be conceptualizing gender issues as though it’s a zero-sum game of all-against-all. If something is bad for men, it must be for women’s benefit, and therefore women’s fault (or at least for women’s enjoyment.) If a woman says, “hey, as a woman, this thing sucks for me,” then it is imperative to counter that with something that sucks even more for men, because anything that makes things better for women must come at the expense of helping men.
Here is what you are missing. When feminists talk about “patriarchy,” we are not referring to a cabal of men running the world and making deliberate, mindful choices. We are not referring to a social system that benefits 100% of the men 100% of the time. What we have is a social system that assigns more value to some traits than others, and also assumes that some traits are inherent to men while other traits are inherent to women.
Our society valorizes a particular conception of masculinity. Men who do not meet these standards are not treated well. Men who do meet these standards may encounter other problems (for example, when “manly” is taken to mean “physically adventurous and unconcerned with risk,” you’re going to have a higher rate of accidents. When “manly” is taken to mean “reticent about emotional problems, and not really supposed to have much in the way of emotions anyway,” you’re going to have untreated mental illness and higher suicide rates.)
This picture of gender has set up male and female to be basically opposites. “Men face more physical danger” is the flipside of “women are weak and need protecting.” It’s not because society devalues men relative to women; it’s because of the traits that are treated as gender-specific. Men are strong and brave and capable; women are weak and frightened and dependent. Ergo, men are soldiers, and women stay home knitting socks (except, of course, when they don’t, which is more often than you might think.)
One of the reasons that you’re getting the pushback you complain about is that you seem incapable of seeing how these gender dynamics are bad for women. We’re saying “we don’t want to be treated as weak and frightened and dependent, because it’s insulting, limiting, and harmful,” and you’re saying “but you’re being protected! Clearly you are considered more valuable than I am!”
But really we’re all getting fed shit.
MRAL, how was the captain of the Titanic NOT reckless? His crew told him,”hey, we can’t see two feet in front of our face, and there are icebergs all over the place,” and he was like “eh, big whoop! full speed ahead!”
Really? Can you cite a single statute that restricts people from gun ownership on the basis of gender? I wait with baited breath.
Can you cite a single statute where employers are mandated by law to pay women less than men? You feminists love to claim that society can oppress a group without laws, but you can’t imagine how it could work against men. Walk into a gun store, flash your boobs, get guns. Don’t pretend you’ve never done this.
So, geese, (duck would have been better, what with the relative penile length, and all), what you are saying is… you didn’t really have anything to say, and the entire trenchant value of your comments really is “sugartits”.
Way to represent the side. I mean, the MRA must be in great shape if they can afford a specimen of your obvious acumen to be spending his time here, engaging in cut-rate middle school taunting sessions when there are real battles to be fought, manifestos to be written, declarations of intent to be published.
The very Halls of Feminism must be about to collapse, if such a titan as yourself can be spared from the fray just to take one woman’s, “wonky grasp of mathematics” apart when the war is being so hard fought on all fronts.
I salute you.
MRAL, how was the captain of the Titanic NOT reckless? His crew told him,”hey, we can’t see two feet in front of our face, and there are icebergs all over the place,” and he was like “eh, big whoop! full speed ahead!”
But only because his wife (who was of course safely at home) promised him sex if he’d do it. xD
STOP!!! YOU”RE KILLING ME!!!
So, geese, (duck would have been better, what with the relative penile length, and all), what you are saying is… you didn’t really have anything to say, and the entire trenchant value of your comments really is “sugartits”.
Must be a Capcom fan.
We do not claim that the law requires employers to pay women less than men — we claim that women get paid less than men, on average, for the same quantity and quality of work. That is a big difference. You stated that THE LAW restricts men from access to firearms. All I’m asking is that you cite the law that does so.
STOP!!! YOU”RE KILLING ME!!!
The men of the world aren’t that lucky.
The law restricts people from getting firearms. It’s only enforced for men. Should I explain how 1+1=2 also?
Geese is right, you are an idiot.
MRAs obsessed with dick size? Putting their fingers in their ears and shouting “LA LA LA LA UR SO ILLITERATE HUHHUH” when they’ve never read anything more challenging than a Star Wars novella?
How very…..
Walk into a gun store, flash your boobs, get guns. Don’t pretend you’ve never done this.
Every woman everywhere has bought a gun. Attempts to assert otherwise will be called out as the flimsy lies they are.
Pecunium:
“So, geese, (duck would have been better, what with the relative penile length, and all), what you are saying is… you didn’t really have anything to say, and the entire trenchant value of your comments really is “sugartits”.”
Nope. Go re-read my comments from the beginning. Take it slow now, grasshopper. (One word per 15-second interval should probably suffice as a speed limit, given your obviously limited intellect.)
Never! I never do this!! Unless the gun is pink and encrusted with diamonds. Does that count?
Xardoz:
Yup, that’s me! I’m such a handsome devil, no really.
I hate to blow this so soon, but aMIRA is a Poe. The alter ego of a Manboobz regular, in fact. Don’t waste your time trying to argue with hir, just sit back and marvel at how little difference there is between hir work and Geese’s.
What would have been really funny is if AntZ or Geese had spent some time agreeing and commiserating with aMIRA before this reveal. But on further consideration, I don’t think that would have happened. As far as I can tell, MRA’s are so totally solipsistic that they completely ignore their putative allies and try to kill feminism all by their lonesome.
We already knew that you’re a cartoon. ;)
And now feminists are joking about an actual terrorist group, and it’s supposed to be the MRM who are potential terrorists?
The only way this comment could be better is if Kate Beaton made it into a comic.
http://www.salon.com/2000/03/14/pistol/
A terrorist group that murders straight men. Of course, this is all just a joke to you.
@Amused
My manly alpha rationalisation wolf says.. yes
@Seraph
I was trying to think of a way to tell Amused that without blowing the whistle cos the potential for more Geese/aMiRA interaction was too tempting!
I have a pink gun. No joke.
It shoots bullets just as fast as the black kind. Don’t underestimate my gun because it’s got different paint on it. :)
Everyone knows about Parallel Universe Obama’s Boobs4Guns program. This is the same bizarre dimension MRAs hail from, where feminists just LUV chivalry.
@Holly
I’ll die laughing. Actually, that sounds very Harley Quinnish of you *peers suspiciously*
You notice that Holly Pervocracy neglects to mention WHO she shoots at.
I don’t know about the rest of you all, but I’m finding MRAL to be eminently disposable.
However, thanks to all (including MRAL! OMG who actually LINKED to a source) for getting me more up to date on the TITANIC (the ONE disaster that universally proves women are much more important than men).
“While male suicide rates are a legitimate issue, women aren’t to blame for it. ”
Check this out, bigot.
Sorry, this thread seems to be travelling “full speed ahead”, but was there any relevance in dredging up the Titanic as being in any way relevant to what happened to the Costa Concordia? Oh, I see, a captain taking unjustified risks and then acting like a douchebag
co-ordinatingleading the evacuation from acentral point on the shiplifeboat. (Whereas Captain Smith at least had the decency to go down with his vessel.)Oh, and MRAL, way to demonstrate being a lesser douchebag. It’s surprising that some people have to dredge up a century-old disaster and still miss the fucking obvious, but this is the MRM we’re talking about. Hardly the sharpest intellects on the planet.
Which former troll is Geese?
MRAL: Get offline. Get help.
Antz: Any reason you’re posting with two user names? Your stupidity can be contained under one, you know.
I know what Holly shoots at.
LOOK WHAT THESE WOMEN HAVE DONE TO THIS POOR MAN.
Check this out, incredibly serious person.
:3
I don’t shoot any men. I cut them like pigs. Dressed like this:
I also deliver presents to boys though. And by deliver, I mean I shoot the presents at them. Out of a cannon.
@Xardoz
And then those entitled princesses paid 50c a can. 50c!!!!!! For antiques!!!!
I know, but I just hate to see the innocent get caught in the splatter.
I might have been more tempted if Geese was taking the bait, but he’s apparently a solipsist as well as a mediocrity.
@Rutee
*blinks in disgusted disbelief* MONSTER!! MONSTER!!!
aMiRA – I shoot at paper silhouettes!
…of men.
*dun dun DUNN*
@Seraph
sadly you are made of sterner stuff loll
I HAVE TRAINED MY CAT ONLY TO CATCH MALE MICE
@Amuased
Just debunking your preposterous lie that Soviet men and women suffered equally during world war II:
http://web.williams.edu/Economics/faculty/brainerd-rfwomen.pdf
Here is a quote, bigot. The article is called “:Uncounted Costs of World War II:
The Effect of Changing Sex Ratios on Marriage and Fertility of Russian Women”. It is about how much women suffered after world war II since they could not find husbands — BECAUSE ALL THE MEN WERE DEAD.
The sex male:female sex ratio after WWII in the Soviet Union was 0.65. Do you have the capacity to understand what this means, bigot?
“The Soviet Union suffered devastating population losses during World War II, currently estimated at 27 million or nearly 14 percent of the prewar population. The disproportionate deaths of young men resulted in a drastic change in sex ratios among the population surviving the war. For example, the ratio of men to women in the 20-29 age group declined from .91 to .65 between 1941 and 1946. I use this large, exogenous change to identify the effects of unbalanced sex ratios on marital, fertility and health outcomes among women in the Russian and Baltic republics in the postwar period. The results indicate that women in cohorts or regions with lower sex ratios experienced lower rates of marriage and fertility, and higher rates of out-of-wedlock births, abortions, and deaths from abortions than women in cohorts or regions less affected by war deaths. Men in cohorts with high sex ratios invested in more human capital than men in low sex ratio cohorts. The evidence is also suggestive of second-generation effects, with the male children of women in high-sex ratio cohorts attaining better health and nutritional status (as measured by adult height) than the children of women in low-sex ratio cohorts.”
“I might have been more tempted if Geese was taking the bait, but he’s apparently a solipsist as well as a mediocrity.”
^ Any idea what Seraph is talking about here, anyone? Sounds intriguing!
Shh, Holly, don’t tell the MRM! It’s an offence against the dignity of men to shoot at paper targets shaped like men!
Oh, my dear little chickadee… the trick to an effective insult (bear with me, I’m trying to help you out here) is to make it something which is talking about things which are either 1: near and dear to the subject… i.e. finding a weakness and exploiting it, or 2: is a something which actually attacks the targets standing.
So trying to tell me, whom you know not from Adam, that I am slow-witted, and failing to understand the, Oh! so very complex points you have been making; less than effective.
Now, you could poll the readership, and ask them whom they think has gotten the better of the exchange; which isn’t so much a question of the better arguments, or greater likeability, but rather one of style, and effect. Would the casual reader think that you, or I, had been the more clever in parry, had managed the better riposte; even risen to a remise?
Which of the two of us has shown a more nimble manner with words? Has been possessed of variety? Has managed to change the style of attack? Has one of us been working to some level of creative effort?
Or has someone been pretending that humming into a $.25 kazoo is classical music?
As said before, if I were taking a line in Vegas, I know where the smart money is going bet. Rude words and airs of superiority may cut it with other men who are fragile in ego, but this is the big leagues. We get clever trolls in here, if you want to stand out you are going to have to get some Game. Work on being subtle, find a good riff (sadly the VR Segregated Sex World, and the Post Feminism SlaveGirl Motifs have been taken, and the Doll Collecting Plushie Lover Niche is also filled, and we’ve had our fill of Gold Loving, It’s all about me; and any bitch who won’t respect “Mah Authority” can just hit the highway) but hey… you keep telling us how smart you are, I’m sure you can come up with something.”
In the meanwhile, I recommend a good thesaurus, because finding new synonyms for sugartits and illiterate might become something of a strain.
I’m an efficient Santa.
I HAVE ALSO TRAINED MY CAT TO START WITH THE GENITALS
Oddly enough it was a “traditional wisdom” that women and children were stuffed onto lifeboats first for a mere fifty years. By the time the Lusitania was sunk, the concept had entirely faded away and was replaced with the eminently more sensible policy of “have enough lifeboats for the people on the ship.” Unfortunately as we have seen it did not also mean “have enough lifeboats for the people on the ship as well as a few drills on how to evacuate to the lifeboats.”
Cuz you know, that would have been much more sensible than the first and second ones.
“I don’t know about the rest of you all, but I’m finding MRAL to be eminently disposable.”
Yep.
He’s a worthless, whiny piece of shit.