MRAs and Children First: The Spearhead on the Costa Concordia disaster
From The Spearhead, where feminists dying is HILARIOUS.
Most of the coverage of the Costa Concordia disaster at the moment seems to be focusing on the Italian cruise ship’s captain and his douchey behavior, which involved not only running the ship aground but also abandoning ship prestissimo while passengers remained trapped on board.
MRAs, by contrast, are using the tragedy as an excuse to rail against the notion of “women and children first” and, of course, to make jokes about women drowning.
Now, the Titanic aside, “women and children first” isn’t now, and hasn’t ever really been, the standard way to evacuate those on a sinking ship, though many in the public — including some of those who were on board the Costa Concordia – seem to believe that it is. (See here for more details on how evacuations are typically handled these days; generally only those with mobility problems are given special treatment.)
In the case of this particular evacuation, some on board apparently tried to enforce an informal “women and children” policy, but many men weren’t willing to wait.
What’s got some MRAs in a snit is that some people, in the media and online, are calling these dudes cowards. In The Daily Mail, a right-wing British tabloid, A N Wilson wrote:
[I]n our day, with the advent of feminism and the professional woman, chivalry and manners are considered stuffy and old-fashioned.
As the father of three daughters, I do not, with a single fibre of my being, wish to go back to a time when women could not have the vote or get a university degree. Nor do I, surrounded by extremely strong-charactered and intelligent women in my family and among my friends, feel tempted to regard women as the frail sex.
But the fact remains that there is a longing among most men to protect women and children, and chivalry is simply a manifestation of that longing.
And whatever transpires about the reason for the Costa Concordia disaster, the disappearance of a chivalric code is a sorry reflection on society today.
This is not what you’d call a feminist argument; it’s a traditionalist argument, published in a tabloid rag that’s generally quite hostile to feminism.
Nonetheless, some MRAs are using the Costa Concordia disaster as an opportunity to deliver a big “told you so!” to the … imaginary feminists who live in their head.
Over on The Spearhead, where one familiar commenter actually described Wilson’s Daily Mail article as “feminist,” guest poster Lyn87 wrote:
The MRM is getting more vocal, and a lot of guys are now saying, “You wanted equality. This is what it looks like.” And they are saying it aloud and in public. Even a few women chimed in, saying that men have no obligation to die for women if women want equality. (Somehow I suspect there wasn’t much, “I am woman, hear me roar, watch me drown” on the Costa Concordia itself, but hey, it’s a start.)
MRAs: Always up-to-the-minute with their pop culture references!
This post was helpfully illustrated with a stock photo of a woman drowning.
Commenters got in their digs as well.
Keyster riffed on Lyn87’s incredibly au courant Helen Reddy reference:
I am woman hear me…blurp….rah…gurgle…raha…ffftt…orr…roar…gurgle…help me…somebody…fffft…please…blurp…help…help me please!
Aharon told both ladies and fish what’s what:
I eat fish. Fish don’t eat me. My life is too precious to sacrifice it so some spoiled bitch can have a pussy pass into the life boats.
Anti Idiocy got all hypothetical-cruise-ship tough guy on us:
Anyone who attempts to keep me on a sinking ship because of the genitals with which I was born is attempting to murder me. I have the right to respond accordingly.
And Thomas Tell-truth kicked chivalry – not to mention basic human decency — to the ocean floor:
Equality means that when the ship is going down and you are a woman, you had better get out of my way or you are going to drown with my footprints on your back.
Apparently Thomas Tell-truth is actually George Costanza:
Jeb, meanwhile, offered a more scientific rationalization for being a complete douchenozzle:
As far as I’ve heard, the one and only sport in which women naturally out-do men is endurance swimming. Women are also more bouyant, and as survivalists will explain, women float easiest on their backs (making it easy to breathe while expending minimal energy) whereas men float easiest in “the dead man’s float” (ie. face down, head in the water) and must expend more energy to stay alive. Furthermore, women have more body-fat than men which insulates them better against aquatic dangers such as hypothermia.
Given all these factors it is quite rational for men to pick women up by the seat of their pants and toss them overboard to make way for men and children to safely be rowed ashore on the lifeboats.
It’s all about doing the right thing and saving lives, after all.
MRA humor is very sophisticated indeed.
EDITED TO ADD: The Spearhead has put up a followup post, once again taking aim at imaginary “lifeboat feminists,” though the only person the post cites lamenting the end of “women and children” is Rich Lowry from the National Review (not a feminist publication).
Posted on January 18, 2012, in antifeminism, douchebaggery, evil women, gloating, MGTOW, misogyny, MRA, that's not funny!, the fucking titanic, the spearhead. Bookmark the permalink. 1,082 Comments.
@ Holly Pervocracy
Um no. I was making an analogy about gender based separation because a previous argument got into strength due to the idea that women are weaker then men and then someone else said it was small and negligible (hint hint).
You’re just too slow to keep up.
I’m listening to something on the radio… using your biological determinist knowledge… what am I listening to? o:
efasfas | January 31, 2012 at 4:26 pm
@ Holly Pervocracy
Um no. I was making an analogy about gender based separation because a previous argument got into strength due to the idea that women are weaker then men and then someone else said it was small and negligible (hint hint).
You’re just too slow to keep up.
She’s not the one who’s too slow in this convo xD
@ Ami Angelwings
What is with you that if I respond to you I didn’t rest my case?
Ok case-rester I’m just having fun at this point and messing around.
You said you rested your case. xD
If you were having fun, you wouldn’t be so flaily and angry xD
Dude, are you contesting the historical discrimination against women in most of the globe that prevented them from living lives as free as their male counterparts? How stupid can you be?
Which is why societies can end up setting up completely opposite methods for the same damn thing. Doctoring requires intelligence, so it’s the field for men, and high status (In the USA). But it’s about taking care of people, so it’s girly, and low status (In Soviet Russia, at least).
Have you rested your case yet? Or is your case still unmade and unconvincing? o_O
@ Ami Angelwings
Yes I’m afraid! And threatened!
By strong smart women like yourself!
It is too much for me. I can’t take it.
I’m going to implode.
Are you? o:
You certainly are acting afraid and threatened xD Ignoring whole paragraphs b/c they debunked your unifying theory of the universe… ignoring everything else being said… etc etc xD
Also I have that affect on ppl. It’s okay xD NWOslave’s started a support group for survivors of Ami xD Don’t worry, there’s no feelings sharing, just WoW and UFC :D
*effect
@ Ami Angelwings
Ok you are writing in separate post and I can’t keep up with you always using one sentence with a topic that what talked about in one post.
“Gosh, efasfas, you sound upset about what people are saying here. You sure are talking a lot with us in order to express the feelings you have about your opinions.
Also, the way you type as if every man’s life is basically nonstop action and shooting and fighting INCOMING GET DOWN KABLAM run run run car chase fistfight… it makes me roughly 75% certain that you have a desk job and that your favorite hobbies are performed while sitting down.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that! But guys who actually have dangerous lives tend to do a lot less tough-guy glamorizing. I’ve never had an actual soldier try to convince me that life in the military was all Serious Sam run-and-gun without a moment of downtime nor a flicker of emotion.”
Can I not enjoy myself! I’m not upset. This is a lot of fun actually.
efasfas | January 31, 2012 at 4:33 pm
@ Ami Angelwings
Ok you are writing in separate post and I can’t keep up with you always using one sentence with a topic that what talked about in one post.
I thought Holly was the one who couldn’t keep up XD
Can I not enjoy myself! I’m not upset. This is a lot of fun actually.
Good! :D
So then you should be acting like your’e having fun not angry XD
And be responding to me :D Since it’s fun!
If you’re having fun, then why are you avoiding responding to me if it’s so much fun? XD
Or is it TOOOOO much fun? :D
I love how efafasafawhatever keeps pounding the “women are weaker than men” drum, despite us telling him a million times that this statement isn’t wrong, it’s meaningless. It’s like saying “shirts cost more than pants.”
There’s a lot of different shirts and pants in this world, man, and if I tell you my shirt cost $15, you’re not going to know what my pants cost. If this sounds silly, that’s because what you’re saying is just as ludicrous.
Also, in my experience men who make a big deal out of the strength their sex gives them aren’t very strong at all. Because if they were athletes, they’d have worked on their strength, and after years of hard work in the gym they wouldn’t be under any illusion that testicles are a free pass to mega fitness. Plus they’d have more to take pride in than “being born with testicles.”
It hardly takes psychic powers to read what you say and note the MRA talking points.
@ Ami Angelwings
“So assuming their male vs female world… MRAs vs Feminists.. wouldn’t all that happen be, feminists have the best survivability? Cuz we work together and we won’t turn on each other, while they have to have their UFC death matches, 100m dashes and weightlifting contests first and screw everybody else!!!! XD By the time the remaining haggard, tired men make it out (and there’d be very few if George Constanza dude up there has his way, and definitely no boys or elderly) even if in 1 on 1 tests of strength they could defeat our very best, it would be inconsequential b/c we’d be organized and have numbers xD
Oh wait… working together is cheating… EVERYTHING SHOULD BE ONE ON ONE SHORT DASHES AND WEIGHTLIFTING XD
This is really a strange world he lives in xD”
Indeed you don’t fight against each other. Part of the hive mind that thinks the same with no intellectual thought. Of course when trying to convince that other is still be oppressed by the evil patriarchy THAT CONTROLS us all.
Feminist professors like these are leading mankind, comrade !
Indeed you don’t fight against each other. Part of the hive mind that thinks the same with no intellectual thought. Of course when trying to convince that other is still be oppressed by the evil patriarchy THAT CONTROLS us all.
Either way, we win. xD JOIN US! :D
BETTER SURVIVABILITY :D
Notice how I’ve already pointed out how his way makes his survivability works and now he’s trying to derail into the feminist conspiracy rather than admitting, yeah… working together > RAWR SHIV EVERYBODY ONLY I MUST SURVIVE xD
I love Winnie the Pooh :D I wanted the new Winnipeg hockey team to be called the Winnipeg Pooh Bears :D (if it wasn’t going to be the Jets, which it is was so yay :D )
@ Ami Angelwings
“So torture and abuse victims are intellectually deficient? o_O”
Fail.
Oh my god.
It means that people who are being to tortured are physically weaker because torture is a physical act. And someone who is able to torture does so because of some advantage. Unless someone is so stupid that they allowed themselves to be tortured if you believe they freely chose to do so.
You know, trolling people by offending them is the easiest, cheapest shot in the world. Just go to the Rat Fanciers’ Forum and post “RATS SUCK!” Bam. Trolled.
I guess it makes people angry if that’s what you’re into, but I hope it doesn’t make you think you’re clever or you’re winning some sort of game. Don’t pat yourself on the back because you can offend people. Offending people is something anyone can do, and the only reason you don’t see the grownups doing it is because we’d rather embark on the much more difficult and taxing path of actually saying useful things that might change the way someone thinks.
So what’s his point now? o_O That feminism means that women are cheating by working together when it should be a single competition free for all? xD
efasfas | January 31, 2012 at 4:42 pm
@ Ami Angelwings
“So torture and abuse victims are intellectually deficient? o_O”
Fail.
Oh my god.
It means that people who are being to tortured are physically weaker because torture is a physical act. And someone who is able to torture does so because of some advantage. Unless someone is so stupid that they allowed themselves to be tortured if you believe they freely chose to do so.
I’m just asking you xD Because you said that being manipulated means that you must have some inherent weakness. xD
What about emotional torture? Can I torture you despite being physically weaker than you? xD Torture isn’t necessarily a physical act, and even when it is it isnt about who is physically stronger than the other in terms of musculature o_O
@ Viscaria
“Uuuuuh… yeah. I totally have that privilege. I think it’s crap. You’re the one who seems to think denying men the opportunity to share feelings is a good thing o_O”
It helps with survival, morality has nothing to do with. Unless morality is based on survival.
What about abuse victims? Are they intellectually deficient?
Efasfas, every time you post like male life is 24/7 car chases and shootouts and explosions, I reduce my mental count of “times efasfas has been in so much as a harsh verbal disagreement” by about 20.
…It’s at negative 40 right now.
It helps with survival, morality has nothing to do with. Unless morality is based on survival.
How does it help with survival? The “suck it up be a man” culture you love has led to more men having depression, being unwilling to seek help and committing suicide. That doesn’t sound like good survivability. Dx
@ Ami Angelwings
“You certainly are acting afraid and threatened xD Ignoring whole paragraphs b/c they debunked your unifying theory of the universe… ignoring everything else being said… etc etc xD”
Um…perhaps you haven’t realized but i”m trying to respond to everyone (I’m famous).
It doesn’t mean i”m trying to skip or avoid any argument.
But keep on your delusions.
I really wish he’d respond faster…I want to know his worldview already xD It’s prolly the strangest and most hilarious since NWOslave’s giant conspiracy theory xD
Whoo boy, I can tell you didn’t pay too much attention in those ‘social science’ courses you claim to despise because you just know they teach crap.
It doesn’t mean i”m trying to skip or avoid any argument.
But you already have XD
“But keep on your delusions.”
But remember folks he’s not angry at all xD
But the dude with the MRA talking points is totally not an MRA, no sir, not him!!
He is a mighty independent thinker!
@ Rutee Katreya
Well if it is so stupid then debunk it. Men and women are equal but somehow men oppressed women doesn’t help your argument. How stupid can you be?
efasfas | January 31, 2012 at 4:50 pm
@ Rutee Katreya
Well if it is so stupid then debunk it. Men and women are equal but somehow men oppressed women doesn’t help your argument. How stupid can you be?
So you admit that men have oppressed women? First of all we need to confirm you agree with this. :3 Then we can explore the rest more :D
Seriously, folks, this one is straight out of Encyclopedia Drammatica. Ignore, unless you’re interested in providing him with lulz.
(This one isn’t smart enough to be going for specific lulz, he just wants to get everyone flustered.)
Cis ppl have oppressed trans ppl. Straight ppl have oppressed gay ppl. White ppl have oppressed various PoCs… the upper class have oppressed the lower classes… so all of those groups are inferior? o_O
Shh, Cassandra, we’re having fun with him and he doesn’t know how much. :)
@Cassandra but he’s not flustering me xD I’m so amused about his hilarious world XD I want to know more but he’s posting SO SLOW
@ Holly Pervocracy
“Anyway, funny you should ask, because we talked about this in Anatomy lab yesterday. There’s three basic types of muscle fibers. Skeletal (voluntary) muscles are striated, regular, and multi-nucleated. Cardiac (heart) muscles are striated but branched, with intercalated disks. Smooth (involuntary) muscles have torpedo-shaped cells without striations.
…you were saying?”
Ok. Lucky you you actually took a hard class in your life. Now tell me about the differences in gender with the different types of muscles. Starting with skeletal muscles.
srsly, NWO has gotten to avoiding answering me, so has MRAL… I’m PLEASED to have a troll who will actually tell me how his world works… :D
Ok. Lucky you you actually took a hard class in your life. Now tell me about the differences in gender with the different types of muscles. Starting with skeletal muscles.
Do women not take hard classes in your world or something? o_O
efasfas: I need learn how to quote here. So quotations will have to do. Sorry if it is confusing. But you do write a lot.
Cut and Paste, with attribution is too hard for you? Wow.
Yes. People can get very instinctual when their lives are on the line. However I’m old fashion at least to an extent to want to help women who respect the old school way of doing things. However people decided to maintain a certain calm. Of course Lord of the Flies is fiction but draws upon realism.
Actually, it doesn’t. Golding was a misanthrope, and projected his views of how people are into the book. In fact when people have been put into that sort of circumstance it was more Gilligan’s Island, with everyone pulling together, and using their talents/strengths to keep the group going.
@ Rutee Katreya
Whoo boy, I can tell you didn’t pay too much attention in those ‘social science’ courses you claim to despise because you just know they teach crap.
Actually I did. But doesn’t mean I agree with most of the idiots in them.
Did you like my video! Feminism for the win!
You want me to recount the rise of every tribe across the globe for you? Go read a fucking book. A good place to start would be the scandinavian countries, wherein women and men *were* equal until the Christianization of the region. It turns out that more important than the fact that women were perfectly capable leaders and pillagers is convincing them that the sacred, ordained place for them is in the home.
Ami – In some eras and places Arabs have oppressed Jews and in others Jews have oppressed Arabs. How are we going to know which of those groups was oppressed because their natural inferiority allowed them to be? Confusing stuff.
Also, if men are oppressed right now that’s because men are inferior. I mean, how else could they have allowed this to happen?
efasfas: @ Holly Pervocracy
I’m dim! Great.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery
If I’m so dim can you tell me about different muscle fibers. Or do you have to go to wikipedia or your Feminist textbook.
You want to talk about the gross differences between fast/slow twitch? Are you perhaps interested in the ability of soe molluscs to use very slow twitch fibers to attain long-term, very strong, contractions with almost no cost? Perhaps the ways in which the really long, but not, “fast” muscles of the cephalopoda to get incredibly speedy contraction of their tentacles?
Or are you interested in the relative rates of bulk? Perhaps you want to talk about the relative mass between individuals?
Yes there are some women that are stronger then some men. If you can picture with your progressive brain then that makes a suitable argument for deconstructing sports segregation based on gender. After all they both overlap. Or could it be that the overlap isn’t as wide as you think.
You got proof of that 50% mark? No? Then be quiet.
She gave a proof. A mathematical one, having to with the known distribution of relative strength in groups being a parallel bell curve. That being true (it is) all the rest follows.
Have you got an actual refutation? No. Then be quiet.
See above, about you being a trifle dim.
esfasfas: When were you in the Navy/Marine Corps/Coast Guard (those are the services which have boot camp).
I’ll wager you weren’t, and you say, “boot camp” because that’s the memorable phrase from the movies.
Because, for all you mock it, Basic does do a moderate amount about talking about feelings. Line units do it too, because having your friends get killed is hard. Bottling up your emotions isn’t great for people. There are different opinions on this (George MacDonald Fraser, for one, is derisive of it, in “Quartered Safe Out Here but he is from a different age/different war, and the ways in which things were done were different.
I can only speak to the modern Army, and we talk about shit, because being closed up about it to end up suicidal. John Keegan, the instructor of Military History at Sandhurst, has some interesting insights as to what battle looked like across the ages, in “The Face of Battle“, where he compares Agincourt, Waterloo and The Somme. Any of Lyn MacDonald’s (no relation to Fraser) works on WW1 will give some ideas too.
Paul Fussell, in either, Doing Battle or, “Wartime” (the latter of which Fraser derides a review of, because it seems the reviewer is too fond of the idea that being in a war is traumatising), talks about WW2, as he saw it, and as other discussed it.
Sassoon, or Blunden’s poetry, and the letters between Sassoon and Owen were all about, “talking about it”.
In short, you don’t know the least of what you are talking about on this subject.
@ Pecunium
No nit wit. I cut and paste with the entire post. I just am trying to respond to everyone and the post wouldn’ve been too long
Think before you post.
Men according to efas ^
Women ^
Translation: You didn’t like what they had to say, but had no actual arguments or understanding of what you were talking about, so you assumed the problem was on them.
Would you like some Dunning in your Kruger?
And I apoligise for the lack of quotations from the sources I referred to, and to a lack of specifics on the issues of muscle, I didn’t have the time to actually look anything up, and was going on memory.
There aren’t any differences in muscles based on gender.
There are some differences in muscle mass based on sex, but these differences are smaller than the differences between an athlete and a non-athlete of either sex.
@ Ami Angelwings
“I’m just asking you xD Because you said that being manipulated means that you must have some inherent weakness. xD
What about emotional torture? Can I torture you despite being physically weaker than you? xD Torture isn’t necessarily a physical act, and even when it is it isnt about who is physically stronger than the other in terms of musculature o_O”
You sure are right now babe. Ha ha.
Holly Pervocracy | January 31, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Ami – In some eras and places Arabs have oppressed Jews and in others Jews have oppressed Arabs. How are we going to know which of those groups was oppressed because their natural inferiority allowed them to be? Confusing stuff.
Also, if men are oppressed right now that’s because men are inferior. I mean, how else could they have allowed this to happen?
They’re ALLLLLL INFERIOR!!!! Even men. Nobody is as intelligent, emotionally stable and physically powerful as Efas! XD
@ Ami Angelwings
“http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_BlsLZY4Qci8/TSOXXYQGBdI/AAAAAAAABUY/V9oKVZ0uhuk/s1600/liefeld_cap.jpg
Men according to efas ^
Women ^”
This is supposed to allude to what?
I don’t dig comic porn. If that is your thing, no judgement.
I think he’s having so much fun he’s snapping XD
You should click on my website :D
efasfas: What is with you that if I respond to you I didn’t rest my case?
Because to rest one’s case means one is done, compete, finished: there is nothing more to say, case closed.
If you are responding, then Q.E.D., you weren’t actually resting your case.
Thank you Pecunium :3 I knew I could count on you to explain it to him :D
@ Pecunium
No she didn’t give proof. Saying 50% isn’t proof.
It is called sarcasm. We ain’t talking about other animals dumb. Get with the program.
Go suck on this.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/l47235487q162675/
*sighs and goes to get the broom*
Leigh Steinberg is filing for bankruptcy? D: that would have been a bad ending to Jerry Maguire :\
It is called sarcasm. We ain’t talking about other animals dumb. Get with the program.
Go suck on this.
xD
*clicks the stopwatch*