Feminist koalas, and other grave injustices faced by men
MRAs: Just like Martin Luther King. Wait, not Martin Luther King. I'm thinking of someone else entirely. I'm not sure why I said Martin Luther King. I mean, that's ridiculous.
I’ve been following the Men’s Rights Movement for some time, and I’ve never been quite sure exactly what the major injustices faced by men are. I haven’t really noticed much to speak of in my own life, but evidently there are some and they are really, really bad.
Luckily, in recent days A Voice for Men has begun to clarify the issue for me. For example, AVfM Radio’s new theme song points out two of the worst injustices of all:
- Men having to hold doors open for ladies.
- Ladies wanting to marry us.
But these are not the only important men’s issues out there. In a recent post titled “A hard rains gonna fall: how hard is up to you” (clearly a reference to the famous song by Carly Simon), AVfM head dude Paul Elam spells out the most important issues of all in a set of bullet points. To save the beleaguered men of the world some important man-time I will summarize them for you here. Bullet-time!
- Thomas Ball’s suicide isn’t mentioned on Wikipedia because feminism.
- The Obama administration urged colleges to use the same standard of proof used in most non-criminal cases in their non-criminal disciplinary proceedings dealing with rape cases. Because feminism.
- Australia. Something about Australia. Ok, here’s the deal: Australia is very, very far away from me, like literally on the other side of the planet, and my eyes sometimes glaze over when reading about it. I’m sure whatever Elam is mad about is really bad. It might involve Koalas. Feminist Koalas. But that’s just speculation on my part.
- In India, where women are routinely harassed in public and groped on train cars, there are a tiny number of women-only train cars set up to cut down on the groping.
- In Sweden, a small group of feminists did a theatrical production based on/dealing with the writings of Valarie Solanas. It was performed in some schools.
- “Men constitute the lion’s share of combat deaths[11], workplace deaths[12], suicide deaths[13], and are afflicted with almost every known human malady and disease more frequently and more severely than women.” Obviously, the feminists are to blame, for their staunch opposition to women serving in the armed forces, and for their secret program of giving men girl germs.
- There are agencies dealing with women’s health issues. Clearly, men need to have just as many of their own agencies to deal with such male health issues as not being pregnant.
I hope my summary of these issues has been fair. As Elam has pointed out on a number of occasions, I am fat, so really nothing I do or say has any value. Plus, of course, I am a mangina. Just, you know, FYI.
In any case, these injustices have Elam plenty mad:
I am truly curious as to what festering, morally atrophied deviation of humanity could look at anything approaching this level of discrimination and suffering without becoming angry.
So mad that his metaphors all get up in each other’s business:
Whether it becomes a wave of social change, or a violent tempest of indignation and fury, the pendulum will continue to swing.
So there you have it. Naturally, Elam’s readers are grateful for his efforts to bring justice to the world by yelling about it online and trying to get people really, really mad at certain specific ladies without explicitly advocating violence against them. That’s pretty much how Martin Luther King did it, only with fewer references to “bitches” and “cunts” and not so many threaty remarks.
As Alfred E puts it:
Well said Mr Elam. May the harpies finally get a clue about their complete lack of compassion for men and boys all the while living in a gold box carted around by the prince.
Justice and compassion for all, except you harpies in your gold boxes! And also the rest of the bitches, cunts and manginas.
NOTE: That bit about Carly Simon above was a joke. Obviously the song in question was written by The Bangles.
Posted on January 13, 2012, in $MONEY$, a voice for men, antifeminism, evil women, grandiosity, I am making a joke, I'm totally being sarcastic, manginas, marriage strike, misandry, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, paul elam, terrorism, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 601 Comments.
My nursing school has a Men In Nursing scholarship. It’s not ZERO.
So … nobody comments on the fact that A Voice for Men is saving hundreds of Maine fathers per year from feminist witch hunts and false accusations.
Mary Kellett is gone, and it is no accident. We made that happen in the AVfM blog.
What, exactly, havy any of YOU accomplished on this blog?
MRAL, shut the fuck up.
Yes, you dipshit, because it’s relevant. All the ranting about virtual reality sex partners and continental, gender divides are the pointless, silly, fruitless fantasies of a delusional idiot. Real activism, real work is required to address issues like homelessness, mental health care, addiction, etc. for men. Not some guy on the internet who believes that lying is a valid form of debate and has his panties in a bunch because he figured out that -being human- wife has free will.
Also, the “article” you linked doesn’t have anything to do with the activity of AVFM or your personal and specific activism. The lawyer, Kellet, may be guilty of misconduct and that is being investigated by the proper authorities. The only thing that comes close to any kind of active involvement is the tentative:
“However, if Kellett gets yet another pass (yes, that pass) on her misdeeds, then A Voice for Men will spearhead a complaint to the Overseers of the Bar in Maine for her clear-cut tampering with a witness in the Sayasane trial.”
Try again, Zarat. What have you done, specifically and/or what do you do specifically to address any of the issues that you listed in your initial post?
How did you make that happen, Zarat? Send indignant letters?
Elizabeth looked up bar complaints for her and there were none.
Hey! Me too! In fact, several of my you tube videos have comments on them stating that I am fat… I guess that means my opinion is wrong in some way as well.
more likely to be called alpha FUCK bitches or arrogant for daring to have an opion about who they find attractive? more likely to happen to women
more likely to get treated worse by society and get discriminated at work for being fat? more likely to happen to women.
MRAL, the vast majority of violence committed against men is committed by men. I agree that it’s a problem. What do you think should be done about the problem?
Anthony: One of the worst things that can happen to a person would be rape. The FBI just changed a long standing policy to include men who are raped in the definition. But instead of focusing on that, the MRM had to focus on the other change in definition that requires the use of physical force in order for it to be considered rape and then jump to the bizarre conclusion that the FBI will now be calling regretted sex rape. (Of course, that is not what the FBI did, but that is the false claim that the MRM made against the FBI in their classification of what rape is.
And could you perhaps consider the idea that in times before today that we had a system that was geared towards the advancement of men. Men would have advantages A, B, C, D, and E that a woman would not have. The MRM takes any legislation or support group or anything else meant to help to give women those same advantages as being misandric because they only target women. But if women are the only ones needing targeting because the men have already achieved what these groups want to help the women to achieve, then the existence of those groups/legislation/etc is NOT misandric and IS a step in the right direction.
Zarat, per your own link, Kellett is still practicing. According to a search there are no pending complaints. So you, personally, have accomplished nothing beyond the promise that if the investigation into Kellett doesn’t go the way you want you’ll make “…a complaint…” That’s some powerful activism there, buddy.
So, again, what have you ever done by way of real, activism, that directly benefits men?
Silly Nobinayamu…we know it’s only a problem if it’s women behaving badly, not men!
I hate that line “committed by men”, like it’s supposed to be some sort of comeback. Yes, and?
Is everyone familiar with the charming fable of the Princess in the Golden Box? I read it just the other day. An extra note of pride in that this story is by a Canadian woman, “penning superlative works that analyse gender related behavior in men and women.”
http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/the-princess-in-the-golden-box/
@Zarat
What proof do you have that she’s a feminist, aside from her womanhood and the fact that she has been hateful to men? I tried finding something to prove that she IDs as a feminist and all I found were MRA sites calling her a feminist.
(trigger warning for transphobia) Anthony Zarat’s link to men’s news daily was a very transphobic blog post by Paul Elam. Zarat described Raewyn Connel’s reassignment surgery as “self mutliation”. So far, I’ve seen a lot more transphobia from the MRM than real concern for gender identity issues.
@FelixBC
I read that charming tale and all I could think of was gee, it must really fucking suck to be in a box like that, no wonder she wanted to get out and have adventures.
But for some reason that was painted as bad.
I recall a gentleman complaining on the Shrink4men.con website that his girlfriend had “turned the ice cream into some kind of weapon” – thinking she had dunked into liquid nitrogen and smashed it over his head, I continued reading… only to find out she had withdrawn Ice-Cream privileges over some unspecified relationship issue.
Anthony: “Here is how you hailed the new FBI definition, which defines all men as perpetrators and all women as victims”
Say what? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-01-06/fbi-rape-definition-adds-men/52398350/1
Are you from the mirror universe?
FelixBC, that fairy tale makes no sense at all. I hope that person doesn’t quit her day job.
lolz good job david at nailing those avfm misogynists again. those momma’s boys just love to whine about stupid shit like male suicide and homelessness. misogynists!
lolz your koalas jokez was real funny god one gyrl u always make me laugh. keep it up!
That was actually fucking funny.
And I think the solution is perhaps multifaceted. Some main points: end society’s valuing of violent masculinity, combat the perception of male disposability and female value.
Forweg, they DO love to whine about all that stuff, unfortunately they’re allergic to doing anything besides whining.
Female value, MRAL? Do tell.
Combat the widespread practice of “chivalry toward women”, both institutional and individual. This doesn’t mean that there should be no services targeted toward women, or that holding doors is some terrible act, but the general perception that “violence toward women” is a special class of violence should be ended. It promotes the idea of men as disposable.
Hellkell, I think I just told.
Eh?
I’m sorry, aren’t you supposed to have a high IQ or something?
Men are the victims of violent crime more than women are but men also -how about I use the word perpetrate?- perpetrate the majority of violent crime against men. It’s a problem. What do you think should be done about?
MRAL, honey, I think the phrase you’re looking for is “the pedestalization of women.” And the reason that violence against women is viewed as a special group of crimes is that violence that disproportionately affects men is just called “crime.”
forweg: So what have you done in the last week to help homeless or suicidal men?
@MRAL
Violence towards women is a special problem because, unlike between two men, the chances of a fight between a man and a woman being a mutual decision is very rare. Also, if I were to get in a fight with a guy. chances are he’s been socialized to handle himself in a fight, unlike if I were to get in a fight with a woman (not impossible by any means, just much lower chances, although that is changing)
You know, just like with that “small dick” thing in your comment last night, nobody here is accusing the guys of AVFM of being “momma’s boys”. And no one has a problem talking about male suicide and homelessness.
Some of us actually do things about male suicide and homelessness. What do you do about? I mean, besides posting online and projecting phrases like “small dick” and “momma’s boy” into the discussion?
MRAL, leave women out of it. What should be done to encourage men to be less violent towards one another?
@Nobinayamu
Plus, mother”s boys actually love their mothers, and would not running around ranting about the inherent evil and worthlessness of women.
Wow, that sentence was a hot mess.
Come on, dude, when he makes an effort not to be a tool, let him hang out. There’s no incentive for him not to improve if we bag on him whether or not he does so.
Violence against women is a special kind of violence: it often occurs in the home, from which the victims have trouble leaving, or the victims have children, again making it more difficult for them to get the help they need. It also occurs within a culture in which women are expected to be submissive and in which, until very recently, domestic violence against women by men was expected and condoned. So this isn’t just about individual acts of violence, it’s about an entire culture of unequal privilege.
Meanwhile, while “chivalry” may seem to you like women are more valuable than men, to me, as a woman, the message I hear is that I’m weak and can’t accomplish anything on my own. Chivalry is benign patriarchy. It’s anti-feminist.
In fact, both the problems you just mentioned–women being “protected” (as long as they are the right class and the right race and never talk back) and men being viewed as available for violence–are the result of patriarchy.
Shadow, maybe, but I think it’s just as common that it is a belligerent woman attacks a reluctant man as the other way around. The sexes are socialized not to fight, that’s all. Both of them- women because they are told/they know they’ll get the snot beaten out of them, men because they’re just taught that it’s wrong. True, the reality of the situation is that women are, generally and relatively speaking, so weak that they usually cannot inflict any level of damage whatsoever without a weapon, but that’s indicative of biological reality, not cultural reality.
Could the answer be…smash patriarchy?
You may think this, but can you prove it? What does the evidence say?
That’s not true at all.
Does it ever frustrate the commenters here that you’re never given a chance to debate an issue point by point? Pretty much all you get from the trolls here is projection and strawfeminist-bashing.
I confess it’s why I sometimes lurk more than comment when there’s a troll invasion. ‘Cuz I’m like “Meh. Why bother?”
I mean, when you essentially agree with a troll who complains about male rape… but you didn’t agree with him HARD ENOUGH or something, you gotta know these guys are not arguing in good faith…
MRAL, what can be done about the amount of violence perpetrated against men by other men. You said that men are more likely to be victims of violence. Most of that violence is committed by men.
What do you think should be done about that?
I guess I figure as long as these asshats think the main point of feminism is to hate men rather than to fight for women’s rights, well…that’s kind of a conversation-stopper, isn’t it?
@MRAL
so you acknowledge that on average women are physically weaker than men, that it’s not a fair fight, yet you think it’s a bad thing that violence against women is considered special or unique, and somehow attribute it to male disposability.
real nice dude.
Shadow, I caught the gist.
I’m over him, and I’m not going to reward him for being less of an asshole than normal. He should go hang elsewhere. YMMV.
I’d say men fear that as well. And me? I mostly don’t fight because I find it barbaric, uncivilized, undignified. If I want to inflict pain on a man, I’ll find a way to do it. Thing is, I would never want to.
Voip, well, I hate the term patriarchy, but I agree it’s a result of our current society, not the feminism boogeyman. But so what? In some respects, our current society is anti-male. The idea of male disposability, especially young male disposability, is one such example.
Frankly, I disagree that chivalry sends the message you say it sends A lot of feminists seem to think that their word on the subject is the last one. Sorry, I but I disagree. I think it sends the message that I’m less than you. I hold doors for people and shit, but I don’t and will never engage in the more in-depth crap, like walking on the right side of the street. It’s the principle of the thing.
Quackers, I think that there are men that are a lot weaker than other men- this is very common, actually, because bullies and assholes usually pick on people smaller and weaker than they- but it’s not (nor should it be) called “a different type of violence”. It’s nothing but violence.
Sadly, NO. It send the message are weak and need to be coddled.
That being said, I don’t give a shit if someone wants to hold open a door for me.
Good faith? Pshaw!
Zarat can’t even acknowledge a listing of groups actively working to help men with the issues he outlined in his initial post. He doesn’t even care about real activism. And forweg is too busy talking about “small dicks” and “momma’s boys” to recognize that the feminists in this discussion have been agreeing that suicide and homelessness are real problems for men.
“Good faith” is a standard that they’ll never achieve. I’d settle for any evidence of actual activism instead of pretending that homeless men can be made warm by the heat of a few thousand key strokes.
@MRAL
Everything VOIP said. Also, I’m not sure if you misunderstood what I was saying so I’ll clarify. When I say men are socialized to fight, I mean that we are taught, and expected, to be able to fight when the situation demands it, and to “take a punch/beating like a man”.. This is not the case with women, who are actively discouraged from fighting both men and each other, so the first time they get punched or something, a lot of women freeze or panic and this makes it even harder for them to defend themselves (this is going off of what my female friends have told me, so if this is an overgeneralization please correct me).
In my own experience, women very rarely get physical with men unless they trust the man not to hit them back. This is obviously a problem, but I haven’t found it to be a rampant one so I hardly think their needs to be a movement about it (again this is my experience so anyone more knowledgeable feel free to correct me).
“Whether it becomes a wave of social change, or a violent tempest of indignation and fury, the pendulum will continue to swing.”-
I haven’t had time to read the comments, but that really IS a great metaphor mix. Probably one of my favorites.
I also wanna see the teacup this tempest pendulum storms in… Oh, no wait, not teacup, Um… Manly Beer Mug?
@Nobinayamu… The saddest part? A lot of injustices men face would be solved with more feminism, not less.
Some of the stuff they have a beef with? Legit. And I’d certainly be willing to partner with men to address these issues. But let’s be honest: these guys don’t want that. They want us to give up.
Nobinyamu, you can’t take women out of the picture. Women are about half of society, and violent masculinity is mostly society’s fault. Yes, that means women are partially to blame, although that’s kind of a weird way of putting it, because no one is individually to blame.
@vacuumslayer
Granted I’m a fairly recent poster, but I’ve been lurking for a while, and it’s been my take that engaging with most trolls is just another way for commenters to bring their views on the topic forward, just as much to their fellow posters as to the trolls.
p.s. Season two starts in two months, are you excited?!!!!!!
…
“What, exactly, havy any of YOU accomplished on this blog?”
Mocked misogyny, which is our only “purpose?”
Most of us do our activism elsewhere. :p
Vacuumslayer, I don’t know what to say except I disagree. Women dying in movies or whatever is usually treated as a big deal. All expendable goons (except in like Tarantino movies) are always male. Pretty young women missing, that’s fucking news, goddamit.
You can say it has some shit to do with “coddling”, and all I hear is rationalization.
Did you just say “I concede your point but it doesn’t actually matter”? This is not the way to debate.
Why are these young men socialized to take risks? So they will seem more masculine.
Which group of people is most likely to attack them? Other young men, who are also caught in the masculinity trap.
On whose behalf do they fight if there is a war? Those who hold power in their country: rich men.
That’s what patriarchy looks like to the men at the bottom of the status heap. Patriarchy is anti-male too, insofar as the men at the bottom are consumed for the sake of the social order. If the word “patriarchy” bugs you call it “kyriarchy” if you want, it’s Greek for “rule of the lords.”
You can’t tell me which message chivalry sends to me. Only I can determine what goes on inside my own perceptions. Your attempt to tell me what messages I am receiving bespeaks your position of relative privilege. In itself, that doesn’t make you a bad person, but you need to think more closely about what you will do with it.
@Shadow
Absolutely true, and I’m totally not complaining about them engaging the trolls. I think I may actually be jealous, because the commenters here are always so damn on-the-ball…and have loads more patience than I have.
Season two?
Dibs not participating in that scientific investigation!
Oh my god, all the time. It’s so frustrating!
Really? Because I think it sends the message that I can’t do anything for myself, and that I have to be nice and passive and wait around for a Big Strong Man (TM) to take care of my poor ladyness.
I’m interested in war movies, military history, and violent video games. I would love to be one of the goons instead of a prize to be won. The goons get to do things.
Wow, VoIP, because feminists, even some in this very thread, have no problem TELLING ME that I am WRONG in the way I perceive chivalry. Lot of privilege up in this thread!
MRAL – Why are you still here, sweetums?
No, we’re telling you that you’re wrong in the way you perceive chivalry’s message TO WOMEN.
I’d say it’s the dead woman who’s treated as more expendable. Think about it.
And that’s all I see when I read your arguments. Funny how that works.
MRAL, this right here? What you just wrote? This is a fine example of thinking before you post and defending your position -even if it’s one with which I disagree- without a bunch of foolishness and fuckery. Good job.
Now, I’ll agree that we’re all in this together and that society cannot be bisected along lines of gender essentialism. It’s, of course, interesting that you can see this when it comes to issues like masculine violence but not when it comes to advances in technology, socialization and communication. But I digress.
My point when I say, “take women out of it” is that introducing concepts like “chivalry” or whether or not women are physically weaker has little, if anything to do with the real issue of men facing violence from other men. You don’t want to walk on the right side of the street? Fine? I don’t like the insinuation that most men are fighting and killing one another over women because you know good in the hell well that it isn’t true.
Women and feminist activists in particular, work to directly address the issue of violence against women as perpetrated by men. As we see increases in violent crime committed by women both against men and other women we’re clearly going to have to figure out ways to address that issue as well.
What do you think should be done about men being so violent against other men? Do you believe that there are ways to address this very serious issue without talking about chivalry, which side of the street you want to walk on, or your personal feelings about women?
The goons get to not matter, and (obviously) increasingly there are women in active roles, yet interestingly, you never see women in roles as expendable extras.
I really didn’t think this was that controversial. Male disposability is real, it is a problem, even some feminists recognize it. You can talk about how it denies women agency without saying that it doesn’t carry negative connotations for men too.
Personally, I’d rather be the “one saved” than a goon. I’d rather matter. But that’s just me.
Only if they’re white.
“forweg: So what have you done in the last week to help homeless or suicidal men?”
Well, I like start out by not censoring their response to slanderous and malicious accusations made against them on my blog.
“Some of us actually do things about male suicide and homelessness. What do you do about? I mean, besides posting online and projecting phrases like “small dick” and “momma’s boy” into the discussion?”
Huh, really? And here I thought the gist of Futrelle’s post was that men don’t face any real problems in life. Strange.