Feminist koalas, and other grave injustices faced by men
MRAs: Just like Martin Luther King. Wait, not Martin Luther King. I'm thinking of someone else entirely. I'm not sure why I said Martin Luther King. I mean, that's ridiculous.
I’ve been following the Men’s Rights Movement for some time, and I’ve never been quite sure exactly what the major injustices faced by men are. I haven’t really noticed much to speak of in my own life, but evidently there are some and they are really, really bad.
Luckily, in recent days A Voice for Men has begun to clarify the issue for me. For example, AVfM Radio’s new theme song points out two of the worst injustices of all:
- Men having to hold doors open for ladies.
- Ladies wanting to marry us.
But these are not the only important men’s issues out there. In a recent post titled “A hard rains gonna fall: how hard is up to you” (clearly a reference to the famous song by Carly Simon), AVfM head dude Paul Elam spells out the most important issues of all in a set of bullet points. To save the beleaguered men of the world some important man-time I will summarize them for you here. Bullet-time!
- Thomas Ball’s suicide isn’t mentioned on Wikipedia because feminism.
- The Obama administration urged colleges to use the same standard of proof used in most non-criminal cases in their non-criminal disciplinary proceedings dealing with rape cases. Because feminism.
- Australia. Something about Australia. Ok, here’s the deal: Australia is very, very far away from me, like literally on the other side of the planet, and my eyes sometimes glaze over when reading about it. I’m sure whatever Elam is mad about is really bad. It might involve Koalas. Feminist Koalas. But that’s just speculation on my part.
- In India, where women are routinely harassed in public and groped on train cars, there are a tiny number of women-only train cars set up to cut down on the groping.
- In Sweden, a small group of feminists did a theatrical production based on/dealing with the writings of Valarie Solanas. It was performed in some schools.
- “Men constitute the lion’s share of combat deaths[11], workplace deaths[12], suicide deaths[13], and are afflicted with almost every known human malady and disease more frequently and more severely than women.” Obviously, the feminists are to blame, for their staunch opposition to women serving in the armed forces, and for their secret program of giving men girl germs.
- There are agencies dealing with women’s health issues. Clearly, men need to have just as many of their own agencies to deal with such male health issues as not being pregnant.
I hope my summary of these issues has been fair. As Elam has pointed out on a number of occasions, I am fat, so really nothing I do or say has any value. Plus, of course, I am a mangina. Just, you know, FYI.
In any case, these injustices have Elam plenty mad:
I am truly curious as to what festering, morally atrophied deviation of humanity could look at anything approaching this level of discrimination and suffering without becoming angry.
So mad that his metaphors all get up in each other’s business:
Whether it becomes a wave of social change, or a violent tempest of indignation and fury, the pendulum will continue to swing.
So there you have it. Naturally, Elam’s readers are grateful for his efforts to bring justice to the world by yelling about it online and trying to get people really, really mad at certain specific ladies without explicitly advocating violence against them. That’s pretty much how Martin Luther King did it, only with fewer references to “bitches” and “cunts” and not so many threaty remarks.
As Alfred E puts it:
Well said Mr Elam. May the harpies finally get a clue about their complete lack of compassion for men and boys all the while living in a gold box carted around by the prince.
Justice and compassion for all, except you harpies in your gold boxes! And also the rest of the bitches, cunts and manginas.
NOTE: That bit about Carly Simon above was a joke. Obviously the song in question was written by The Bangles.
Posted on January 13, 2012, in $MONEY$, a voice for men, antifeminism, evil women, grandiosity, I am making a joke, I'm totally being sarcastic, manginas, marriage strike, misandry, misogyny, MRA, oppressed men, paul elam, terrorism, threats. Bookmark the permalink. 601 Comments.
I wish a prince would cart me around in a gold box. It sounds like fun.
OK, do this:
1) Make a list of the 10 worst things that can happen to a person. You can put anything you want on your list. Any kind of violence, any kind of accident, any kind of death, any kind of disease, social dispossession, suicide, homelessness, addiction, incarceration, any kind of disability, etc.
2) For each item on your list, find out if it occurs more to men or women.
3) Compare your list of actual suffering to our social response to suffering:
— 600 feminist university departments with thousands of employees paid to find solutions to women’s problems
— 2000 publicly funded institutions, presidential commissions, etc, working to help women to implement these solutions
— 10,000 scholarships, programs, and educational initiatives to help women to find their own solutions to their problems, in cases where institutional solutions are inadequate.
I like it. Great. Women are people, and government should protect people. Bravo
4) For men:
— ZERO university departments working to find solutions to men’s problems
— ZERO public institutions, commissions, etc. to help implement these programs
— ZERO scholarships, programs, and initiatives to help men and boys.
Sound fair to you?
If it does, I think you are a bigot.
If it does not, you just took the first step (of many) in understanding the mission of the MRM.
The MRM:
Equal protection under the law
Equal protection of governemt
Feminism:
Hate
It does appear that not only do they have a problem with things (that actual are serious-the workplace, medical, and combat deaths/illnesses/injuries) but they are furious, FURIOUS that feminists are not dropping everything they care about to work on these way more important issues.
Because after all, men are more important then women. /sarcasm
And what are you doing to correct these issues, Zarat?
Yes, there are no departments anywhere.
No men’s health networks to help men out with their health needs.
And men certainly have no scholarships for them. None whatsoever.
Wait, all of those links are to things that say the exact opposite. Men’s studies programs, men’s health networks, and scholarships are all there on the interwebz just waiting for someone to go look at them.
Hm, he must think that the global south has a shit ton of trans men, as giving birth is one of the leading global causes of death and is a common cause of serious injury.
And, of course, as clueless privileged first worlders (and proud of it!), they seem to labor under the mistaken impression that only white soldiers die in war. Civilian populations are never, ever affected. Women are never, ever subjected to systematic rape and torture during war. Death and injury in birth never skyrocket due to infrastructure destructions of war. Women’s rights and franchise are never stripped away as a bargaining tool or by fanatics who take over a chaotic political situation. Never ever.
What if my top-ten list of Most Awful Things That Can Happen to Anyone Anywhere Ever includes “being impregnated at age 12 by one’s own father and then forced to carry the fetus to term”? Because I’m pretty sure that’s more awful than my personal imagination can imaginate.
…Oh, wait, never mind! Things are only Truly Awful(TM) if a MAN says they are. (And you know what’s Way More Awful(TM) than being forced to carry your child-rapist father’s baby to term? Having to hold doors! For ladies! And then not-marry those ladies!)
How ladysilly of me.
@darksidecat: Yeah, “being a repeated survivor of systematic rape in the Congo” is also on my personal top-ten list of “really horrible things that can happen to human beings” – and it happens overwhelmingly to women and girls.
“Being murdered horribly simply because you were born _______” is also on that list. I wonder how many men qua men are killed each year, and how that compares to the number of women being killed for being women, or folks of either sex being killed for being a certain color or sexual orientation or gender identity, etc. ?
The mistreatment of the working class by the upper class (which leads to things like workplace death), comes courtesy of the Patriarchy, just like every other malady on your fucking list.
Antz,
You forgot the terrible, terrible discrimination in federally funded research, to whit: so much to find a cure for breast cancer, so little to develop working sexbots.
@Post
You must be misinformed. The “American Men’s Studies Association” is a feminist hate group, dedicated to segregation and destruction of men. It was formerly known as “National Organization for Changing Men”. Before that it was the “National Organization for Men Against Sexism”. It is a wholly owned subsidiary of the feminist hate movement, dedicated to telling men that they are disgusting animals and should castrate themselves:
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2010/04/22/mens-studies-foremost-authority-opts-for-castration-literally/
I don’t think that you are such a bigoted, vile, poisonous person to suggest that an organization that openly embraces anti-male discrimination and self-mutilation should act as spokesperson for solving men’s problems. I think probably you did not know any better. Now you do.
Which is why the MRM focuses on things like creating more counseling centers for men with addiction and/or mental health issues. Concerns about incarceration is why you, Zarat, have been such an advocate for repealing the “Rockefeller” laws and petitioning at the state and federal levels for a waned approach to the “War on Drugs” and reducing sentencing/expanding sentencing alternatives for nonviolent drug offenders, right?
A deep and abiding concern about homelessness and unemployment would explain why MRM organizations have been working so hard to start homeless shelters first and only using extra funds to put out information bounties on college actresses, right? MRM advocates have, no doubt, been working diligently to address the issue of man on man violence as men suffer, disproportionately from violent crimes at the hands of other men.
I can think of hundreds -nay thousands- of issues that affect men directly and disproportionately, Zarat. And being a feminist does not prevent me from recognizing them and working, actively, to address them. The sum total of your activism seems to be: 1) posting on websites and 2) telling your sons to avoid women.
Good job.
@Dani
Poor Dani, sniff sniff.
Right back at you:
http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-feminism/all-men-are-rapists-and-they-are-coming-after-you/#comment-83280
And I have exactly as much sympathy for you, as you do for me:
ZERO
Antz is a transphobe. This is my surprised face.
This really is what it comes down to isn’t it? women’s issues aren’t as important. How dare women try to solve their own problems when there are men’s problems to solve! Problems that for some reason men, who are apparently the smarter sex anyway, can’t solve themselves.
Ever notice how cancer organizations tend to focus on different types of cancer? not just ALL cancer?
Ever notice how animal rights people focus on animal rights moreso than human rights?
Ever notice how the LGBT movement focuses on the inequalities they face that straights don’t?
It is damn near impossible to focus on every problem all at once. It’s possible to lend a hand to a bunch of different causes and support more than one, but ultimately people tend to focus on one or two. Why is it that men can’t help each other instead of sitting online ranting about the evil feminists and horrible western women? why can’t they help men without trying to destroy services for women? why not push for MORE services for men instead? NO ONE IS AGAINST THIS. I support services for men and tackling problems that affect men! I DO NOT however support misogyny and just dropping services for women though. Not will I stop tackling problems for women either.
I have a friend who is an environmentalist. I don’t call her a bigot for not focusing on feminist issues. Nor does she belittle me for not living a more environmentally friendly lifestyle.
Zero sum game. This is not.
The dude who hates women so much he wants mandatory separation is back? And still belittling real problems in favor of fake ones? What a shock. Go back to Stormfront and AVFM, dude, they might listen to you.
Oh wait, even they think you are nucking futz.
The creation of the male studies seems to be a way of bashing feminists so what exactly would it do to help men again? Oh right, nothing.
The men’s studies association on the other hand does seem to care about things like “AMSA Member Produces Documentary About Fathers, Sons & Ending Abuse” And ““Depression Over the Adult Life Course for African American Men” Article by AMSA Board Member”
You know, those things that you MRA’s claim that no one cares about?
Oh I forgot, unless it involves bashing women or feminists, it is feminist and therefore evil!!!
And your article is discriminatory and disgusting. So you can fuck right off now.
Hey, guess what, Antz? I’m a feminist and I think women can rape people! Men, even. It is an integral part of my feminism to believe that women have the same capability for evil that men do.
Stupid iphone. I meant a “saner approach”.
Quackers-add in the fact that they only seem to accept something that hates women and/or feminists as legitimate.
If it focuses on doing something positive for men without even paying attention to women it is suspect and a “hate organization” according to Mr. Zarat.
Helping each other out is no where near as important as hating those evil evil EVIL women!
PLACES TO DONATE INSTEAD OF AVFM IF YOU CARE ABOUT MEN’S RIGHTS
1in6– specializes in rape of men
Innocence Project– frees falsely accused men
NORML/Drug Policy Alliance– fights to end the drug war
Just Detention– works to end prison rape
National Coalition for the Homeless– fights homelessness
Your local homeless shelter– also fights homelessness
AntZ is like NWO except less funny. When we called for better trolls, we really should have been more specific…
@ozymandias42
Here is how you hailed the new FBI definition, which defines all men as perpetrators and all women as victims:
“Congratulations to all the activists who have campaigned to make the FBI change its definition, and congratulations to the FBI for being only about twenty years behind the times.”
Something tells me you are correct when you say “you are a feminist”. But, as to “women have the same capability for evil that men do” — that is just a polite platitude for public consumption. When it really matters, you know who butters your bread.
So, Zarat, you are essentially admitting that neither your nor AVFM are doing anything actively and productively to address many of the issues that affect men? Just whining, deflection, obfuscation and unwillingness to take on the work of real activism.
Good to know.
Oh for fuck’s SAKE dude. Are you literate?
The previous fucking sentence to that: “This definition is, of course, still problematic: for instance, it does not recognize that men can be raped through penetration, because of course an erection means consent. Nevertheless, the acknowledgement that men can be raped at all is progress and could affect everything from funding for sexual violence prevention to basic statistics about how many rapes are committed.”
@PosterformerlyknownasElizabeth
because anything that is Pro-women automatically means anti-men to them. They have a really, really black and white view of the world.
I’m not going to go deep into psycho-analyzing but I think a lot of them just hate women or have unfortunately been hurt by women, and their online ranting is like a form of therapy or something.
And also adding to Ozy’s list, the Male Health Center: http://www.malehealthcenter.com/
*paragraph
Antz – If you’re really upset about men’s (for example) suicide rates, here are some things you can do:
-Donate money or time to organizations like the Samaritans or the National Suicide Prevention Hotline, which talk to people in crisis
-Lobby your local and national politicians for improved mental health care
-Educate yourself about the causes, warning sides, and prevention of suicide so that you can better help the people around you
-Speak to community organizations about suicide prevention
-Ask schools to put suicide prevention education on their curriculum
-Participate in an Out Of The Darkness walk against suicide
-If you’re very committed, go back to school and pursue the necessary education to become a mental health worker or social worker directly helping people with depression and suicidality
But instead you have chosen to:
-Support a guy who does none of the above, but loves to rant about “fucking their shit up” and posts manifestos about firebombing courthouses
-Troll a random website about your support of this guy
How many suicides you figure those actions prevent?
Read your own sentence and ask me if I am illiterate. It makes no sense.
A mistake? I don’t think so. I have read many of your posts. There are few grammar mistakes. Suddenly, the most important word in your entire article is — backwards. “Penetration” should have been “envelopment”:
“it does not recognize that men can be raped through ENVELOPMENT”.
You know it. You KNEW it then. Why did you use the wrong word? Because you are a feminist. You could not bring yourself not use a word that could possibly imply that a woman is capable of wrongdoing. You prefer to use a nonsensical sentence, but you avoid the only word that matters.
I would rather read NWO’s rantings than AntZ’s tired crap.
So how much money and where have you given it, AntZ? Or are you just a keyboard warrior?
And someone of them are just angry that what happens on TV does not happen in real life-whereas they think they should have June Cleaver as a wife and wound up with a human. A human who has different wants and needs then running a perfect household with angelic children while being perfectly put together no matter what the occasion was.
Zarat, we know that you don’t believe you should have to engage women/feminists honestly. You’ve said so. But thanks for the illustration:
And here’s you, delving into a ridiculous argument about sematics:
But, hey, keep displaying your lack of integrity openly. I’m sure it will help men with depression, incarceration and violence.
>>> Example of why the MRM is anti feminist: The Family Violence National Legal Response Report <<<
http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/family-violence-national-legal-response-alrc-report-114
First the feminists acknowledge that men can be victims, but immediatly minimize the fact:
“The National Council to Reduce Violence Against Women and their Children acknowledged that while women as well as men can commit—as well as be victims of—family violence or sexual assault, the research shows that ‘the overwhelming majority of violence and abuse is perpetrated by men against women’. Put very simply, ‘[t]he biggest risk factor for becoming a victim of sexual assault and/or domestic and family violence is being a woman’.”[13-pg51]
Then, the feminists go on to assert that, since male victims are vanishingly few, we can ignore them altogether and legally presume that all perpetrators are male:
“Safe at Home legislation provides police with a considerable extension of their powers to detain a person without charge. Another key feature of the Safe at Home model is that it allows families to stay within the home while the perpetrators are removed.
Preambles within legislation that acknowledge the social realities and dynamics of violence, including the gendered nature of domestic and family violence.”[1 -pg115]
Is Antz saying that women are incapable of penetrating men? For a dude who wants to make VR sex possible, you’d think he’d realize penetration doesn’t always involve penises.
“Being murdered horribly simply because you were born _______” is also on that list. I wonder how many men qua men are killed each year, and how that compares to the number of women being killed for being women, or folks of either sex being killed for being a certain color or sexual orientation or gender identity, etc. ? ”
Er, well, it’s kind of funny I think, because I suppose men aren’t usually harmed for being men per se, but men who cross society, or are victims of racism, or get in fights, or make a dangerous enemy, or whatever, will be treated far more harshly- killed, beaten up- than a woman in the same situation. So yes, I’d say that “being male” has led to a lot of harm.
Also, if the definition doesn’t include a dude being penetrated, there’s also the risk of leaving out male-on-male rape, isn’t there?
Or I was using “penetration” in the sense of “being penetrated.” For fuck’s sake, dude. The next fucking clause in the sentence is “because of course an erection is consent.” (That clause demonstrates what is known as sarcasm.)
If you would like to help male rape survivors:
–Donate to RAINN, Just Detention, or 1in6.
–Volunteer for a gender-inclusive rape crisis center or hotline.
–Get trained as a victim advocate or a social worker and work with male survivors.
–Write your congresspeople about rape legislation.
–Help revise your campus sexual misconduct policy to be gender-neutral, if you attend a college.
In others words:
The #1 most important thing that anyone can do to help men, boys, and fathers is to EXPOSE FEMINISM AS THE HATE RELIGION THAT IT IS.
If feminists are willing to stop their efforts to legally describe all men as perpetrators and all women as victims (after saying platitudes to the effect that “some men can be victims”), then we can re-visit this stance. Right now, it is what it is.
Feminists: Stop attacking men, boys and fathers — and the MRM will stop attacking you.
Why can’t you just fight for women’s rights? Heck, fight against the MRM? Why the war on boys? The war on fathers? The war on innocent men?
Okay, my list of the ten worst things that can happen to a person.
1. Rape. More likely to happen to women.
2. Being abused and/or molested as a child. About equally likely to happen to boys and girls, sadly. Girls are more likely to be sexually molested, but let’s not split hairs here, it’s awful across the board.
3. That thing in 1984 where the secret police find out your #1 fear and then use it to torture you until you betray everything you love and believe in. They do this to both Winston and Julia, so 50/50 gender split there.
4. Alzheimer’s disease. More likely to happen to women.
5. ALS and other degenerative motor-neuron diseases. More likely to happen to men.
6. Getting pregnant, going in for a medical checkup, discovering that you have breast cancer, and having to go through pregnancy and cancer treatments at the same time. I think of this because it just happened to a friend of mine (she just had the baby safely if prematurely, thanks). More likely to happen to women. Alternately, just any cancer.
7. Getting sold into sex slavery in a foreign country where you have no escape. More likely to happen to women.
8. Running into a severe crisis that destroys all your resources, so you wind up homeless with no way of digging yourself out of the hole. More likely to happen to men.
9. Same as #8, but you have a kid and the kid has to live on the street with you. More likely to happen to women.
10. Seeing a poster at your kid’s school telling parents not to raise their sons to beat women, which was your personal Damascus, wasn’t it, Zarat?
Zarat, we know you and AVFM are anti-feminist. That’s the extent of your activism. Show how you’re pro-men.
Do you donate to any of the programs that have been listed in this thread? Do you volunteer your time with men’s homeless shelters? Other than suggesting that men and women be separated by the Mississippi and telling lies, what do you do personally and specifically to address the issues that face men disproportionately?
Shaenon – My list is almost entirely things like “have to slide down a railing covered in razorblades into a pool full of lemon juice,” and thus is strikingly ungendered.
Why, if men are not the primary victims, should the researchers spend equal or more time on the non-primary victims?
And why should the law’s preamble not acknowledge the reality of the situation-that one gender is the primary victim and the other the primary perpetrator? Especially if the actual statute is genderless (which they generally are), the acceptance of reality is bad now?
I’m sure homeless men everywhere immediately get warm places to sleep when that happens. I’m sure suicidal men then get mental health treatment. I’m sure this gets incarcerated men set free, abused men sheltered, and raped men taken seriously. Right?
Or at least one of those.
How poisoned does your mind have to be before you literally think that ranting about more feminism does more good than actually helping someone?
Shit, if you held a door open for a guy on crutches sometime last month you’d be doing more real good for men than you are by ranting about our HATE RELIGION.
I’m willing to let someone else go head-to-head with MRAL about whether being female somehow protects you from racism, but “a dangerous enemy”? To quote John Watson, “People don’t have archememies.”
Why can’t you and the MRM roll up your sleeves and actually work to help men? Other than the shitload of work involved, why is your “activism” confined to internet ranting and pining for sexbots? Why do you only care about homeless men, incarcerated men, men struggling with addiction and unemployed men when you have to give your movement some semblance of sanity? Because you sure as hell aren’t actually doing anything to helpmen with these problems.
I love how your “stance” essentially boils down to “When feminists shut up then maybe, maybe we’ll get around to doing something productive. Until then? More shrieking.”
You’re a fucking joke.
I’m sure most of the married guys of the manosphere (like Dalrock) are like that.
There are conservative and anti-feminist women that tried to comment on the manosphere and no matter how much they agreed the guys there, most of these women left disgusted by the misogyny and some closed their blog because they received threats. Even Susan Walsh is constantly ridiculed by guys from the manosphere.
Antz, I have done more good for male rape survivors TODAY than you have in the past year.
Not really, the #1 thing you can do is you know, help men. Like those who have been bullied, abused, harmed at work, depressed, unjustly imprisoned…the list is actually quite extensive on how the #1 thing you can do is to actually help men.
So 1. feminists should ignore reality. 2. not only should they ignore reality, but they should also focus solely on the bad that happens to men. If they do not do either of those two things, they hate men.
Funny thing is, feminists are not attacking men/boys/fathers and yet you hate them anyway.
They are.
They are too busy helping women get their rights.
There is no war on boys-not focusing on boys does not mean there is a war on them. Trying to keep people from aborting females and/or abandoning baby girls is not a war on boys.
The problems of child support not being paid is a huge one in this country-fathers who care enough to actually show up to court and try to work with their exes are not what the feminists are fighting. They are fighting the jerks who refuse to support the children they created.
What war? The war on drugs? That is a serious concern-hop to it, plenty of ways to help men from being unjusticely incarcerated and surprise, none of them involve bashing women. Oh wait, that is the problem huh? You cannot hate women AND help men. That simply is asking too much.
@Zarat
I’m sorry it pains you to hear the truth but the issues that face women? such as rape and domestic assault? they ARE mainly done by males attacking females. It’s just FACT. Its not the same as saying that ALL men are going to do this, or all are perpetrators, or that women are exempt from raping or assaulting men. It’s mainly pointing out that the sex of the person most likely to rape or beat a woman is male.
You want us to just shut up because your fucked up head interprets pointing out fact as vilifying YOU and the entire male gender. It is not the same thing. Are we just supposed to lie to protect your hurt feelings? are we supposed to pretend that women are mainly raping women? or wives are beating their wives?
Better yet, why does the MRM only care about white men? POC, gay, and trans men do not exist in MRMland.
My list:
1. Being murdered. More likely to happen to men.
2. Being tortured. More likely to happen to men.
3. Being raped. More likely to happen to women.
4. FGM. More likely to happen to women.
5. Being otherwise mutilated or permanently scarred. More likely to happen to men.
6. Severe depression. I don’t know who is more afflicted, but based on suicide rates, probably more likely to happen to men.
7. Starvation. Probably about equal.
8. Perpetual homelessness. More likely to happen to men.
9. Alzheimer’s. More likely to happen to women, I think?
10. Watching Two and a Half Men. About equal.
“Why can’t you and the MRM roll up your sleeves and actually work to help men?”
“What do you do personally and specifically to address the issues that face men disproportionately?”
You people keep asking this. ;You want examples? OK, I will give an example:
STOPPING CORRUPT FEMINIST PROSECUTOR MARY KELLETT.
Kellett is a crazy feminist man-hating prosecutor from Maine. Any man who asked for custody of his children in Maine risked being arrested and jailed. All were soon released for lack of evidence, but not before the custody was awarded to the mother. AVfM exposed her hate crimes, and the ABA found her culpable of a series of professional misconducts. Fathers in Maine can now request custody of their children without fear of prison and witch hunts:
http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/family-violence-national-legal-response-alrc-report-114
MRAL, we’ve told you before that depression actually affects women more, but suicide rates for men are higher because of the methods they use.
Oops, wrong link. Here is the correct link:
http://mockup.avoiceformen.com/mens-rights/activism/kelletts-prosecutorial-crime-spree-continues/
Not that I want to get into a “which gender has horrible things happen to them more” slapfight because a) the goal is to make horrible things happen less for everyone, and b) men and women are not opposing armies.
Zarat is, if I remember correctly, one of the MRAs who believes in lying to advance his goals, so there’s no point in debating him seriously. I say ignore him unless he can make himself more amusing. How’s the research on your VR wife substitute going, Zarat?
OH MY GOD, AN ARTICLE, ZARAT????
You must need a nap. That’s some heavy lifting right there.
And complaints to the Maine bar–that must really take it out of a dude. It’s Miller time.
What I have seen on this is more women are depressed but more men successfully commit suicide. The explanation for the disparity is the fact that women tend to seek help before men do. That poisonous “be a rugged individual who needs no one” really harms men because they then do not seek treatment.
That is something to change-along with the stigma of being mentally ill itself.
I actually looked up her name on Maine’s bar complaint webpage and found zilch showing anyone either filed a complaint and/or had her disciplined.
hellkell: Depression in men does tend to be underdiagnosed– partially because going to a therapist is not manly, and partially because suicidal/depressed men tend to show different warning signs (most notably, substance abuse and aggression) than women.
Nevertheless, a lot of the difference in suicide rates is difference in method; I’d say that men and women are equally likely to be severely depressed.
Right, Ozy. If only there a movement that wanted to change that stigma…. huh.
PFKAE, I only scanned what Zarat posted, but it looks like if she doesn’t shape up they’re GOING TO complain. I’ll believe it when I see it.
Argh, I forgot about female genital mutilation! I have to go back and change my horrible list!
Any kind of genital injury, male or female, freaks me out. I’ve never found gags about men getting hit in the balls funny; it just makes me wince and cross my legs.
Bless your heart, Zarat. The premise of the entire thought experiment was a top-ten list of things that the responder, personally, thought were The Most Awful Things That Could Happen to Anyone Ever(TM).
(For instance, as a sufferer of a degenerative motor disease and also of severe depression, I wouldn’t put either of those on my personal Top Ten List, like some other commenters on this post have. But those are *their* lists, not *mine*, and so are valid answers to the question *for them.*)
Yeah, rape appears at least twice on *my* list. “Inability to get an abortion even if I’m going to fucking die from this pregnancy” is also pretty high on my list. That doesn’t mean any of those things needs to appear on anyone else’s list, ever. The question asked what was top-ten worst *for me,* and I answered *for me.*
As for your MRM-ish hissyfit: being forced at age 12 to carry one’s rapist father’s baby to term and being systematically raped as a weapon of war in the Congo do happen more often to women and girls than to men and boys. Even if you factor in that some of those women and girls may actually self-identify as male. Because the whole point of the rape-as-a-weapon-of-war in the Congo thing is to oppress women and girls directly, and the men who care about them only indirectly.
And, um, you sort of can’t be forced to carry a rapist’s baby to term if you do not have a full set of working female reproductive organs. You seem confused by that idea, but trust me: babies cannot get carried to viability unless there is a functional uterus involved (plus functional ovaries and Fallopian tubes to make pregnancy possible and a functioning cervix and vagina for delivery). Ergo, this is NOT a thing that can happen more often to men than to women. By definition.
Yes, there is one plausible exception: 12-year-old transmen (transboys?) as well as girls could be forced to carry a rapist father’s baby to term, if said 12-year-old identifies as male but still has a working set of female reproductive organs. But – and please correct me on this if I’m wrong – so far, I haven’t seen a great deal of concern about gender identity issues from the MRM. On the contrary, you lot seem more likely than bog-standard humans to reduce a full-fledged individual human being to a mess of hateful genitalia-based stereotypes.
“4) For men:
— ZERO university departments working to find solutions to men’s problems
— ZERO public institutions, commissions, etc. to help implement these programs
— ZERO scholarships, programs, and initiatives to help men and boys.”
Anthony Zarat, the university I attended had many departments that were working to find solutions to the problems that people faced, and men are a subset of the group people.
There are in my nation, state, county, and city a multitude of public institutions trying to implement solutions to the problems faced by people, and again men are a subset of the group people.
I am a man and I was helped both by scholarships and grants, both as a boy, and upon reaching adulthood. Stafford loans, Pell Grants, and Cal Grants were all available to me, and they are available to other men and boys.
Meh, depression is honestly way too underdiagnosed in both genders. I was really happy to see the Canadian government’s started doing PSAs for depression.
I don’t like the Oppression Olympics either, but I’m saying, let’s not pretend women are the primary victims of violence or anything fucking ridiculous like that.
On second thought, I’d probably drop being raped to like #7.
The rothschilds? Or is it the CIA?
@Zarat: can you MRM guys stop trying to disturb serious attempts to work on men issues?
thxby
@MRAL: I don’t like the Oppression Olympics either, but I’m saying, let’s not pretend women are the primary victims of violence or anything fucking ridiculous like that.
I like the Oppression Olympics because I think that men are the primary victims of violence and also women spit at me on the street all the time and refuse to talk to me or have sex with me which just proves that men WIN the Oppression Olympics just like everything else because wymmynz are just fucking Holy Highnesses.
There, fixed that for you.