Some of those video game princesses ain’t so Peachy
Why can't they all be like Princess Peach?
It’s almost impossible to catalogue all the ways men are oppressed by women in contemporary gynocratic society. There are so many! For example, did you know that men are oppressed by female characters in video games? I know, right? The last bastion of red-blooded manliness, invaded by imaginary ladies!
Luckily, the fellows at MGTOWforums.com are on the case, exposing this foul virtual misandry. I Am started off a recent discussion on the subject by asking
WTF is with empowered women in video games now? …
I see a new trend in the video/computer game world and that is the increase in strong playable female characters.
Now, I am no hardcore gamer but I do play computer games often and the recent one I have been playing recently is Shogun 2 total war. Now for those who don’t know what this game is, it is a strategy game based on the military of feudal Japan. I recently bought an upgrade for the game the other day and guess what one of the strongest military units was? Nuns. I shit you not. The nuns had an attack 20% -40% higher than most units in the game. Somehow I doubt that in real life a nun would have swung a sword or used a spear faster and harder than a feudal warlord, and this game was based on history.
Clearly nuns are incapable of manlike swordplay, though it is true that they are capable reenacting famous internet panda sneeze videos. (I have seen video proof of this.) But Shogun 2 does not depict them sneezing like pandas. It depicts them fighting.
This is an outrage because video games are meant to be a perfectly accurate reflection of reality. Obviously there is nothing even slightly unrealistic about any of this:
Most of us dudes are in fact capable of karate-chopping heads in two. We just don’t like to show off all the time.
I think I have the right to ask steam and other gaming companes: WTF with the subliminal brainwashing? What now when I buy or play a game women will be doing all the ass kicking? …
I call bullshit on this subject. Video games are the last place for guys to hang out and now women are taking over. Why not just save us the trouble and instead of eliminating our fantasy world just throw us in work camp to provide for thier bastard children (literally speaking) while they shit all over us…wait they already do that.
I Am is not the only dude who’s noticed this alarming femtrend. Goldenfetus added his observations:
I’ve noticed this too, and it drives me insane. Was co-oping Gears 3 last month and there’s a point where 2nd player has to take over a female character. Almost ruined the game for me. It may seem minor, but once you’re aware of this type of brainwashing it’s impossible to ignore. There’s no way a slim female could keep up with the massive battle-hardened male Gears in that kind of environment. They would be a liability as they are in real life combat.
Exactly! By contrast, the male characters in Gears of War 3 are all completely accurate representations of real-world men.
This is what dudes look like, for real.
Goldenfetus continued:
You’ll see the same thing in most stat-based role-playing games as well, where you have the option of a female player character – like Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, D&D, etc. The women never have any strength or intelligence penalties compared to the males. … They want to give the impression that people of any race, gender, and sexual-orientation are interchangeable – that there are no differences in ability between them, and that only a bigot could think otherwise. I’m sick of it too.
At the very least, female characters should be depicted as carriers of cooties.
Despite the very serious subject matter – video game misandry is never funny! – Xtc tried to lighten the mood with a little humor:
It would be hilarious to portray the female characters realistically. If you chose the female character in your FPS [First Person Shooter] she would have to move very slowly, dragging the gun around. You could build in some extra shake to the crosshairs to represent hopeless accuracy. Every time you needed to reload your gun, instead of just pressing a button, you’d have to find a male character and go through some flirting dialogue options to persuade him to do it for you. One out of every four missions the game would tell you that you were sitting out this one due to ‘women’s issues’.
Calloway, for his part, offered some historical perspective:
This is nothing new. I got heavy into gaming back in the late 90’s and even back then they had Tomb Raider, S.I.N., etc. Even in the original Unreal, you played as a big-breasted female.
I saw a documentary on the making of the original Tomb Raider once. The lead character, Lara Croft, was originally going to be a man. They saw him as an Indiana Jones-type character. Then, one of the designers suggested it be a woman because “if you’re going to be playing a game for hours, you might as well have something good to look at”. …
When you first take the red pill, it’s amazing the things you see. It’s as if you had blinders on before, and all of sudden they’ve been removed, allowing you to actually understand what you’ve been seeing.
Yep. And what you’ve been seeing is Lara Croft’s ass. Lara Croft’s ass oppresses men! The red pill tells me so!
Also, those tiny misandrist shorts just make the gynpression worse.
Now we come to the clincher.
When you try to get romantic with the imaginary ladies in video games, they don’t act like Roissy and those dudes say ladies act. I mean, you can’t even neg them! As Dave sadly pointed out:
I remember about 12 years ago playing the Baldur’s Gate rpg series and there were some romance dialog paths between your character and some of the women who could join your group but you had to treat them very nice. You couldn’t give them any attitude or make fun of them otherwise it would be over.
Basically you have to be a total mangina towards women in most games if you want to bed them.
Even imaginary ladies are stuck up bitches!
The horror!
I had a
Posted on January 11, 2012, in antifeminism, evil women, hypocrisy, I'm totally being sarcastic, idiocy, masculinity, MGTOW, MGTOW paradox, misandry, misogyny, oppressed men, PUA. Bookmark the permalink. 599 Comments.
Speaking as a fan of the, “Total War” series of games (though I never played the Shogun series”, there is a slightly disingenuous (ha!) aspect to this.
Combat is done with armies. A single type army is really limited. It requires combined arms to have any chance of success. At a guess the equivalent unit in “Rome: Total War” would be the Arcani. One of the quirks of really specialised units in the game design (say the cannon in Medieval: Total War) is how small they are.
Yes, things like Arcani are tough, and capable of doing some interesting things, but… they are expensive, take a while to train and are in support roles. Put them in direct contact with a line unit and they get overwhelmed. That sort of unit has to either be staged; so as to be a surprise/ambush, or held in reserve and used when the time is right.
In short… the entire premise of this dood’s complaint is bullshit.
Meller: This post would not be complete without noticing that men are not “intimidated” by so-called “strong women”! We are DISGUSTED by them! You are horrid to us!
I happen to not be disgusted by “strong women”. I rather like them. I just took a look in my shirt… no tits. I undid my belt and checked my genitals. To my surprise (from the certainty of your declaration) I was startled to discover that I am not a flat-chested woman. There was a cock, and balls, hanging between my legs.
I must say this has given some concern over the accuracy of other of your pronouncements; which I had been considering to be the most absolute of truths, until this unexpected intrusion of error.
Kathleen: Some of the best, fastest and scariest people I ever fenced against were women.
Which is why her praise of my speed was so encouraging. I have to say that, given the non-attendance of the US to the ’80 Olympics, she definitely made the right choice, but I was a beneficiary of her not getting the surgery; because she never could have tutored me had she lost her mobility
DKM No, you’re worshiping your own personal version of femininity, one that is limiting and disgusting to a large percentage of women who exists outside your head. You keep forgetting that YOU ARE NOT the arbiter of who is and is not a woman. In conclusion, FUCK RIGHT OFF
So according to the logic I’m picking up here, when men play as women it’s a terrible imposition upon them (and women are to blame), but when women play as men it’s an unfair appropriation of a male space (and women are to blame).
Ain’t that peachy.
DKM, aren’t you invading ladies’ space with your doll collecting? Nobody wants creepy misogynist control freaks around jacking off on their collectibles.
Meller: You know what I like? People who make playing a game with them fun.
You know what I don’t like? People who make playing a game with them not fun.
This has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with personality. I personally do not get into to many online games with a lot of interaction. I prefer my gaming interaction in person (though I did just buy goldeneye for the wii in the hopes that I can get some of my friends who also enjoyed that game on the N-64 to get back into it). I have found nothing in my gaming activity that makes the possessing or lacking of certain genitalia a characteristic that makes one more or less likely to be fun to game with.
Pecunium My first teacher thought quite a bit about going into armored combat, but she decided that her speed (and sweet gods, she was fast) wouldn’t be enough to avoid getting beaten up.
Pecunium–January 11, 2012, @4:00pm
Physically, you are a male, but there is a LOT more than just a Y chromosome, an abundance of testosterone as compared with estrogen, or the presence of a penis with testes! There is also identification with other men, especially when we are, as a group, and as a gender, under attack, and NOT being a renegage who will side with, or advocate for, the enemy at the first opportunity! Every post of yourshere has been an advocacy for female posters and their posts,and almost every post of yours here has been an attack upon a fellow male only interested in preserving his gender specific identity and values! Physically, you are a man, Pecunium, psychologically and sexually, I just don’t know. No real man would be happy always siding with women against his own the way you, and other manboobzers are, expecially when the blog or website you posted on, like this one, was explicitly hostile to men and our interests, while being sympathetic to our adversaries.
I’d really love to get invoked in fencing. Actually, is it still called fencing if it’s not done with rapiers and sabers and such? I’ve never been clear on that. My interest lies more in Medieval and Renaissance European longswords.
@wajib
Duke Nuk’em Forever?
@Darksidecat
My traditional ox-tail dao weighs about 4.5 pounds. The historical katana that I’ve held are usually around 3 pounds. The newer ones weigh about 2.5 – 3 pounds. My spear about 2, but it’s Chinese which typically used a lighter, more flexible wood than the heavy ash or oak of Europe.
RE: video games, I play a lot of MMORPGs. I almost always play female characters. Because… well… I started because I like watching a woman’s butt rather than some dude’s. But now I do it out of habit. I like choosing their hair, clothes and most games (since the original EverQuest took away the dark elves assless plate) have made the female armor nearly identical to male.
From game experience, people assume that female toons are played by men. Maybe console and FPS are different, but I get exactly the respect that my ability to play the character earns me.
Katz–January 11, 2012 @4:13pm:
No, I am not interfering or invading womens’ doll collecting at all! On the contrary, I am hoping that they use it to enhance their understanding of what womanhood, femininity, and its associated qualities are, and maybe even cultivate them in themselves away from the horrid feminist ones of gender egalitarianism and antimale paranoia.
Yeah, Pecunium, you’re like the world’s biggest mangina. Shooting guns, sword fighting, being in the military? Take up a real man’s hobby like putting perfume on dolls.
What is it with the de-gendering, DKM? Why is your go-to insult “if you don’t do as I say you’re not really your gender?”
I think it’s a sign of people who never had anything to be proud of in their lives besides their gender, so they act like it’s a badge of honor instead of, you know, an attribute of just about everybody. I’M A MAN, WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT.
So, uh… women being anywhere at all=male oppression, I guess?
Meller, I do like my dolls and figurines, and they have nothing to do with regendering myself, and I find fascinating your theory of such. Can you expound further on how doll collecting might do this? Also, what do you picture when you think “typical doll collector?”
@DKM – So being a man is all about viewing everything in paranoid, insular, black and white sense where one’s gender is their primary characteristic?
Just noticed I used “invoked” where I meant “involved”.
DKM, you said that women don’t like it when guys hang around while they’re doing their feminine stuff. Why do you get to be the exception?
@Viscaria: Nah thanks for the hugs but it’s not bad, it’s just annoying. I’m a bi cis male so the only annoyance is the ‘hetero by default’ part. And I’m out to everyone else, including my lovers and family. Now if I could get around to coming out as a kinkster poly… ;)
Pecunium, you big girl. :)
Meller, why is gender your insult? Is your masculinity so fragile that you can’t function unless you impugn someone else’s? You play with dolls, remember.
I love how Meller defines “not interfering” as using doll collecting as some kind of sociopolitical tool to pressure women into conforming to his expectations. No interference there, no sir.
For some ungodly reason, I’m trying to communicate with him.
MRAL, Arisia is going on in your city this very weekend. Go there. Meet nerdy girls. Say hi to Phil and Kaja Foglio for me. Get off the fucking computer already.
When I was your age, I believed guys like you when they blamed their shitty behavior on being socially-awkward geeks who just needed women to treat them right. You know why I’m such a mean-ass bitch now? Those guys. I’m a cranky old nerd and I have no patience for that nonsense anymore.
It’s funny how some of these dudes, like Meller, who defend traditional masculinity, forget that it requires more than just possessing a dick. And considering everything that Pecunium knows, and has done, the only way he may not conform would be the “bros before hoes” mentality, and even that is a heteronormative way of saying friendship before romance, not a way of saying you should always side with men over women.
DKM:
Strangely, I don’t think of men as “the enemy”. I don’t even think of you, Meller, as the enemy; just a sad, sad person. Maybe that’s why I have a boyfriend and many male friends, and you have a neat doll collection!
@Blackbloc:
Oh okay, I misunderstood. I definitely see how that would be irritating though :-/.
Hey everyone who does things that make them happy. You should do things that make you unhappy instead so DKM can have peace of mind.
Shorter DKM: “I meant no TRUE Scotsman!!!1peaceandfreeomone!”
Meller: Do you read? My posts here are in response to asshats, and idiots (when dealing with the OPs) or in response to others. I just made a post in which I said a woman had an odd, and limited, stance (in regards to her skill set in shotgun shooting).
Given that all of your posts here are designed to insult, degrade, or otherwise attack women, it’s no surprise that I am not your cup of tea. But I identify with a lot of men. Guys I was in the service with, guys I practice Aikido with, guys I work with.
Mostly those guys aren’t here, so you don’t see the discussion. Hard as you may find it to believe, I too (as with you and your dolls) have a life outside of manboobz. I ride motorcycles, cook, garden, take photographs, fence, shoot, hang out with friends, play games (I’m more fond of Go, or strat wargames, or things by Ravensberger, than I am of Chess. It happens those are games which are better when played with people than computers. This means I have to spend time with people. I can see where this might frighten you, as some of those people are often women).
I teach people knife skills. I teach them how to sharpen. I play the penny-whistle, and am making some effort to learn the banjo. Sometimes I hang out with people and sing. I’ve travelled the country speaking about torture. I’ve been a speaker at SF conventions (I’ll be speaking at one in March).
Next week I’ll take a stab at brewing mead. When that’s bottled I may put up some beer.
In short, I have a life which doesn’t involve ranting on the internet about how evil women are; or the Fed, or praising Ron Paul. It’s rich and varied and… it’s manly.
You, of course, can continue with your no-true-Scotsman fantasy life, in which “real” men agree with you, and the “renegades” like myself, are, purportedly, miserable, because we aren’t complaining about how we can’t find women we like. This is probably because we have women we like.
…
PS – Full disclosure, Meller – I prefer figurines to the movable/dressable sorts of porcelain lady. Is this the problem? Is a Lladro craving more feminist than an Ashton/Drake one?
In a roundabout, stopped-clock sort of way, MRAL’s right: they have this ridiculous picture of women’s capabilities because they’re inexperienced. Not just inexperienced with women, inexperienced with real-world physical tasks and skills.
I’ve experienced the most sexist bullshit and misconception in physical culture from guys who’ve either trained only little or not at all, and the absolute least from guys who’ve been training seriously for years. Same goes for shooting culture; the relative newbies and the guys who’ve been up in their No Gurlz Allowed clubhouse by sheer force of will are the only ones spouting or perpetuating the idea that women are limited at all in shooting.
Why? Experience- of being outperformed, by many different women, because being outperformed by people who’ve trained more or better is something that happens a lot when you work seriously on a skill. It doesn’t necessarily make them less sexist or misogynistic- both the shooting sports and strength sports remain boys’ clubs that attract a lot of macho young men- but it gives them a much more realistic picture of womens’ actual capabilities.
So I tend to interpret rants like that as “I am so out of shape lifting something that weighs ten pounds is difficult, and women must be much weaker than me because I’m a man, so women must be useless!”
Dracula: Pretty much if it’s using swords, there is some compound of “fencing” which covers it. I’ve done, at least a little, of pretty much every major style/period of European fencing, and some Japanese. I’ve also done some polearm work.
It’s all fun.
Shaenon: I’ll be at Arisia (as, so I am told, will another Boobzer). Shall I convey your greetings to Phil and Kaja?
Shaenon, if we had like buttons here I’d like your last comment a dozen times.
DKM, as long as you will play with dolls, us women will play video games, play football, drink beer, fight, have sex with women and other manly things because you stole our fluffy femininity!
.
precision: I’m not saying each of us will do all of that. It’s as a group.
Umm… what? Do you know anything about Twilight other than that teen girls like it? Here’s a basic summary: Teen girl falls in love with 200 year old vampire (huge difference in age/experience), said vampire emotionally abuses her, refuses to let her leave him (by blowing out her tires), the girl has no real personality or interests outside of pleasing men, it’s made clear that she’s expected to stay a virgin until marriage (which she does, also she gets married right out of highschool), vampire husband gets her knocked up with a half vampire baby who nearly kills her (because abortion is wrong in the Twilight universe even when the mother could die), oh yeah and then the baby imprints on an adult werewolf with the clear subtext that he will groom her to be his mate.
Exactly how is this a misandrist series? It’s just dripping with patriarchy and making abusive, creepy relationships out to be healthy. The author is a devout mormon who has basically admitted it’s all a teenage abstinence allegory.
Pecunium: Are you sure you aren’t like my long-lost male twin? I share about 90% of those interests with you, including fencing.
Well, in fairness I do think Twilight perpetuates the myth of men being uncontrollable rape monsters, which is hardly a flattering notion of male sexuality.
Hey hey. A bunch of comments from new commenters got stuck in moderation; I let them through,but they’re a few pages back, so here they are again. (If I missed any, let me know.)
Shaenon, I’d like to go to Arisia, but I don’t have anyone else who is interested, so I’d be showing up alone. I feel like this would just be weird, or am I wrong?
I graciously accept pecunium and cynickal’s correction about sword weights.
Of course Meller thinks not being a man is the worst insult of all, given his burning hatred for women and all other non-men.
I remember that! I also remember trying to compose a letter to the editor, but I couldn’t come up with anything but, as Liss from Shakesville says, a 2,000 word screed riddled with profanity.
Also, it’s not just dolls and figurines, I seriously like porcelain in general… Is this why I’m too feminist?
Seriously, I’ll make a deal with you, and I won’t mention your hilarious SCROLL UP AND SEE WHY WOMEN SUCK!!! “response” to what I said about negative rights theory, Rothbards critique of egalitarianism, Lockean Equality, etc again for a while, if you just tell me how dolls will make women better women!
Also, I note that you speak as if doll collecting IS “your turf” and you only allow women on it because we might be feminized. So please, PLEASE explain what you think doll collecting is like for the rest of the world, and what it can do for women?
“it’s made clear that she’s expected to stay a virgin”
To be fair, if my memory is good Sparkly is a virgin too.
And the girl is pretty dumb and plain, but the idea is that every insecure high school girl can identify to her and fall in love with the overly described (I’ve only seen the so-bad-it’s-good movies but I’ve be shown some bits) perfect boy.
So I do think there is some misandry, but overall it’s sexism and sexism again, in both way, because it’s the fucked up fantasy world of a Mormon woman who, emotionally, is still 14.
I can’t wait to see the last one, I’ve heard there is a vampire-baby/werewolf love story.
“One person wrote in to Dragon Magazine round about 2001 and was magnanimously offering to allow women characters to bear children in exchange for a -2 to Strength, while men characters got +2 Strength and the ability to father children.”
OMG OMG I HAVE THAT ONE STILL I THINK!
Yes, zhinxy does have an extensive collection of Dragon and Dungeon back issues.
I know this is shocking.
@zhinxy
Teach em to shut up and look pretty of course!!!! Apparently this is not a sentiment that he hears expressed enough in that rock he lives under.
MRAL, no, no it wouldn’t. People do things alone all the time. Even if you went to a con with friends odds are that you’d want to see different things and the group would split up at some time. And you don’t have to take my word for it as a lurker, but I’ve yet to see anyone be taken aside by the social police and told that they can only re-enter the threatre/con/event when they come back with a buddy.
Okay, this one made me giggle, as a long time casual gamer. First off, I’d love to sit down these guys and give them a lecture on the fact that historically, video games have always been, up to this day, primarily marketed towards guys (Exhibit A: The venerable Nintendo GameBOY — oh how I miss that system, even though then, and now, I wondered secretly why there was never a GameGirl haha). Most of the time, any game with a female character was designed as another way horny young boys could get a little T&A without the guilt associated with porn (Exhibit B: Lara Croft).
Now, though, there are more and more girl gamers and more and more games are beginning to have strong female playable characters. RPGs tend to lead in this field, although if my BFF’s son is correct, the latest Saint’s Row have good female characters. Nevertheless, take a look at your average new release game, and take a look at the role the female characters play — even with the upsurge in numbers of female video gamers, 9 out of ten times, the female character is still only the sidekick to the much stronger male lead/playable character.
Bottom line is, though, strong women characters will continue to emerge in the video game world, and we shall be able to fully celebrate being geek girls.
Incidentally, geek girls ROCK! =D
Sorry, gents.
More formerly moderated comments:
P.S. Does anyone know if trans women are welcomed at GeekGirl Con? I’ve read about it in the context of “Katie, the Star Wars girl” and am rather inspired by it, and would consider going if it’s a respectful org.
DKM, you are aware that chess has a piece called “the queen,” and that she’s actually more powerful than that wimpy old king, not to mention all the other pieces?
I had dolls as a child. There was three categories:
– babies. You might hope it develops a child’s desire to be a mother, but nothing about being feminine myself.
– barbies. They’re actually adult, but even as a young person I always knew they were a terrible model to follow. And not fluffy at all. (In my mind, they were gymnastic superstars, including Pocahontas and Scheherazade. In retrospective, it makes sense)
– clowns. Not very fluffy.
So I could go in my parent’s attic and dug some of them up, but I don’t think any of them will bring me any DKM-pleasing femininity.
MRAL, I agree with Shaenon, even if have no one to go with you should make an effort to go, and as the situation arises, talk with a variety of people as people – forget about gender and just try to engage with people you meet on topics of mutual interest that have brought you to the convention. As a shy person myself, I can guarantee it will be good for you, even if some conversations will feel occasionally a bit awkward and stilted, to get a bit outside of yourself and your comfort zone.
Pecunium, there is no fair comparison of manliness between you and DKM – he is an odious, pathetic individual who grossly overestimates his qualities, Dunning-Kruger effect writ large.
Trudy | January 11, 2012 at 3:15 pm
“Can’t tell if Meller is a troll, being sarcastic, or really believes what he’s espousing.”
…
He’s a troll, but he is ABSOLUTELY sincere. What he says is what he thinks, I believe that with every fiber of my being.
Really, he’s a national treasure, of sorts… Or something.
@David
I can see why DKM enjoys chess so much. After all, no matter what the queen does, the game is won or lost on the survival of the king. DKM’s whole shtick seems to be that men should be able to do whatever we want by flashing our penes like an FBI badge.
I had dolls as a child, they were anthropomorphized turtles that wore different colored lone ranger masks and had “attitude”
This sucks. I need life to arrange itself so that I may attend cons now. phooey!
@chibigodzilla
Did they happen to be heroes in a half shell?
MRAL: Arisia is a convention. There will be lots of things to do, people to talk with, things to see. It’s not a thing one needs people to enjoy. I’ve gone to a lot of cons, “cold”. I admit, over the decades I’ve built a network of friends, so it’s rare that I’ll go an entire weekend without knowing someone (and the net has made it easier) but that doesn’t mean I’ll see them. It’s a busy sort of place.
You might also run into someone you know (last time I went to a con I saw my brother, whom I’d not seen in about three years; who was living in Phoenix the last time I’d seen him; and was in SF for the convention).
@Shadow
That they were
“games have always been, up to this day, primarily marketed towards guys” –
Though, the game systems of old did have ads featuring boys and girls playing Mario, etc.
We WERE invited to spend our parents’ money along with the guys, let’s not forget that XD
What I find is that the boundary of “guy” and “girl” games becomes hilariously shifty. Remember when console RPG’s were a respectable dudely pursuit, not “girl stuff like FF?” ;)
Dedicated to DKM!
Ah, remember the good all time and its boys-only games? Tetris, pacman, pong! You could smell the testosterone on these…
David Futrelle–January 11, 2012, @ 5:51 pm:
Yes, chess has the queen, whose power is indeed stronger than the other pieces, but she is committed to using her power specifically as you (the player) wish her to do so, and if you consider the players for each side are personifications of the King (limited powers as a piece, but the game ends when he is captured), the Queen is as beholden to her royal master as any pawn on the board. She–and her power–goes where he want her to go!
She is valued and treasured for her utility to the game and its positions, NOT her power per se.
Also, her power, like the power of all of the other pieces, is dedicated at all times to winning the game for HIS majesty!
The last time I went to a game convention alone was two days of fun. And a bit of adventure, as it involved a place I didn’t know, carpooling with people found on internet and an hour of walking to get there and no idea how I would get back or where to sleep (it end up being a tatami) and having to write pretentious poetry for a Rimbaud Murder Party. Don’t laugh, that was adventure to me.
Apropos of nothing in particular, TURTLE POWER!!
That is all.
Chess: the woman does all the work, the man lies around benefitting from it.
No wonder I never liked playing it.
I’m more into card games myself. My father taught me to play poker and cribbage more successfully than he taught me to play chess, and I cleaned up in pretzels in college (my brother who was in a fraternity got actual money when he played, but my group was all humanities majors and nerds, therefore broke).
I could also drink about half the men I knew under the table in college as well (not actually good given the alcoholism that ran in my family), but it was funny to see them so befuzzled that the liddle girl wasn’t passing out.
Wow.. called it!!!
DKM, it’s poor form to be a predictable troll