Categories
antifeminism antifeminst women evil women I'm totally being sarcastic misogyny MRA patriarchy reddit

How to spot a feminist

Some feminists can be converted!

Over on Reddit, DoktorTeufel has a problem: he likes the ladies, but he doesn’t like the feminists. Unfortunately, some ladies are also feminists! And therein lies the danger. Naturally, he turns to the fellas in the Men’s Rights subreddit for help.

I’m just going to come out and say it: I will never knowingly enter into a romantic relationship with a feminist. I do have some female relatives and acquaintances who are feminists … and it’s not like they all wear signs that proclaim I’M A FEMINIST. (Some do.)

Aside from obvious telltales (feminist bumper stickers, etc.) or outright asking them “Are you a feminist?”, what are some discreet ways to ferret out a woman’s views on gender activism without creating an awkward situation? Feminism is a minefield topic, and I certainly wouldn’t broach the subject directly with a woman I’ve just started dating.

Naturally, this being the Men’s Rights subreddit, he received much helpful advice. Celda broke it down for him:

You don’t really care whether she identifies as a feminist or not – you care what her views are.

For instance, does she feel women have the right to force men into parental obligations against their will?

Does she feel women are oppressed in Western society?

Does she think that women make less money than men for the same work?

If yes to these questions or similar, then you probably want to avoid her.

Exactly. Always avoid those with a basic grasp on reality. They’re the worst!

Naive1000 suggested looking for more subtle clues.

Ask their thoughts on “benevolent sexism” if they know what your talking about you likely have a feminist. Just to make sure go into male privilege, it’s the feminists’ most popular talking point. Let her talk about it then you can see what she’s really like. But, there are some women who call themselves feminists, but are really egalitarian: they just don’t know the term.

Memymineown also suggests a subtle approach, and holds out hope that some of the younger feminist girls can be won back to the path of righteousness:

Bring Men’s Rights issues into the conversation subtly. I was talking with my family about Justin Beiber and brought up the paternity charge and no rape charges filed against the woman.

That led into a discussion about how women aren’t punished for rape.

Just do things like that.

But you shouldn’t exclude all feminists. I would say that the vast majority are just girls(I do use that word on purpose) who have been lied to. Once you show them the real facts they will probably come around.

ThePigman, by contrast, urges DoktorTeufel to  go for the jugular:

Why do you need to be discrete about it? Just ask her. If she is a member of the cult she will start screaming about the patriarchy, then her head will explode.

It’s true. Pretty much every conversation involving feminists quickly devolves into screaming about patriarchy. Heck, a feminist friend and I once screamed about patriarchy for five hours straight. We probably could have gone longer, but the manager at Applebee’s, evidently not a feminist, threw us out. Sometimes I start screaming about patriarchy when no one else is around, just to keep in practice.

Conversations with feminists pretty much all go like the conversation in the video below, only instead of a cat you need to picture a feminist, and instead of the word “no,” the word “patriarchy.” You can see how annoying that might get, and not just to Hitler.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

756 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Debtors prison, yeah. But we still send people to prison for fraud.

Hateful feminist! OF COURSE you side with the woman over the man! If he’s in jail he MUST have committed fraud!

Women = good

Men = NWO

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Has the “all women only chose easy jobs” argument come up yet? My eyes are starting to glaze over.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy
“What is the difference between a wife and a live-in housekeeper?”

Oh I don’t know? It’s a fucking mystery! What your saying is that me busting my ass is worth less than cooking and cleaning. But since I do my own cooking and cleaning that’s worth more in real dollars than the work I do outside the home. Total bullshit. There’s no way my work at home, even if I did it for two people could come close in value to what I do outside the home.

You’re telling me it takes 8 hours straight labor (40 hours a week) to keep an apartment or home for 2? Buuuuullllllshit.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

The best part of NWO’s transphobia plus his misogyny is that all of his laws and rules and stuff he wants to put on women don’t apply to me, the one he REALLY wants to get at xD

I think the real reason he can’t read your xDs is that he can’t resolve the “She shouldn’t have rights because she’s a woman, but she’s not a woman… ERROR ERROR ERROR” in his head.

He can’t overcome his misogyny long enough to be properly transphobic, and I think that kinda breaks him.

Anti-Moron's-Rights
Anti-Moron's-Rights
8 years ago

@ zhinxy:

Well, I’d go about it differently, I think, and I approach from a radical start-over perspective rather than a reformist one, but I’m, seriously, so very with you in a roundabout way.

In terms of many aspects of American society, I agree with you. I hold some libertarian beliefs, some anarchist beliefs, and some socialist beliefs, and I’m not quite sure how they’d interplay to create the ideal society. As a creative with ADHD who would have flunked out of high school, had I been a Millennial left to wade through No Child Left Behind testing, I am 100 percent with you that the entire American education system needs a radical do-over. I think that the tax code does, as well. While I believe the federal government is most efficient at administering certain services, like healthcare and transportation, or protecting basic civil rights (like the right to be a young black man and not beaten to shit by police), I also believe many of its alphabet soup departments could be cut back or eliminated.

I don’t want special pay equality laws or to be protected by the government as a special, “better” class – although I do want the government the hell out of my body when it comes to deciding what to do with an unwanted pregnancy or what drugs to take. I’d like to retire early and more and more, I’ve been thinking of living on a sweet ranch or bungalow in a rural area (like Jerry Cantrell). My ideal president is some hybrid of Gary Johnson, Dennis Kucinich, and my anarchist co-op friend.

While I admit I don’t have all of the answers, I am totally with you that we need to fix this shit – either through serious reform, or tearing down and starting again. In the day-to-day, I’m conflicted about how to do this. So I focus on my pet issues: HIV/AIDS research and education. GLBT rights and issues. (I write about both on the side – and surprise! – my advocacy helps MEN disproportionately more.) And above all, informing people about the myriad ways in which the government and mega-corporations have joined together to fuck them, every single day. Some people cling tightly to the system that fucks them – Republicans and Democrats, feminists and MRAs, alike. I can disagree with their ideas, but in the end, how they see the world is up to them.

Anyone whose heart is in the right place, though, I hold in very high regard. People who campaign against their own interests, and hope to destroy the lives of those around them in the process, especially because basic facts elude them, not so much.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

XD

NWO is getting angrier… I wonder why xD

He’s swearing now! 😀

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

*whistles innocently*

nwoslave
8 years ago

The reason I know it’s bullshit is because I already do that.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

NWO – Then why do people ever pay housekeepers/chefs/nannies more than room and board?

I don’t understand why you can have a live-in housekeeper for $400/week, marry her, and then get the exact same services for free. Does that make sense to you?

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

There’s no way my work at home, even if I did it for two people could come close in value to what I do outside the home.

I thought the value of what you do outside the home isn’t v much. That IS what you’ve been complaining about in the past.

That you’d be doing MUCH more valuable and important work if only you were a woman and AA didn’t prevent you from getting those jobs.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

Don’t give me that crap, Holly. No one gets anything for work done at home. I’m not paid to cook or clean or repair. Wether it’s just myself two people or ten. And nobody deserves to be paid for doing work in or on their homes.

If society dictates that you get married and not have a career and focus all your labor in the home, then yeah you do deserve to get paid for that labor. However in the case of the single man/single woman lifestyle, there you actually ARE working and getting paid, so it doesn’t matter if you get paid or not for housework. Chances are also that housework becomes a lot more easier too when you only have yourself to care for than if you do for a family.

This attitude is why traditional female jobs like childcare, PSW and nursing are not paid as well (which IMO is what contributes to the wage gap) it’s just not regarded as important…yet if no one was there to do it…..well that would be an interesting sight to see.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

NWO, you yourself have said that busting your ass doesn’t pay very well. Maybe it’s time for a change?

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Holly Pervocracy
“He can’t overcome his misogyny long enough to be properly transphobic, and I think that kinda breaks him.”

Here’s how backward the world is. Send Ami to a shrink and the shink’ll say he’s right and everyone else in the world is wrong. Is that not insanity. In a normal world the shrink would try to actually help. But no, the world is wrong. Insanity.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

NWO, I’ve said this before. Why don’t you pretend to be a feminist man, marry a nice feminist woman who will work and you can stay home and tend house?

(and before you whine about pretending, that’s what you claim female privilege is, that if we pretend to be somebody we’re not we can get a husband)

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

What your saying is that me busting my ass is worth less than cooking and cleaning.

Just a friendly reminder: If you don’t want to make yourself look stupid, make sure that you’re typing correctly. It’s fine to make occasional mistakes, but if you clearly aren’t trying (*cough*NWO*cough*) then it just makes you look like an idiot. 🙂

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

By the way, when did this become just about cooking and cleaning? I thought we talking about stay-at-home parenting. Lot more effort than just basic home maintenance, yet suddenly it’s not factoring into what NWO is ranting about.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

He may not be properly transphobic, but he’s still vile.

NWO, your hate isn’t very Christian.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Here’s how backward the world is. Send Ami to a shrink and the shink’ll say he’s right and everyone else in the world is wrong. Is that not insanity. In a normal world the shrink would try to actually help. But no, the world is wrong. Insanity.

Actually that’s not what happened. xD

The psychiatrists were really awful actually. I got hormones on my own. I have never had a diagnosis of GID from a psychiatrist.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Oh wow, NWO, the one thing you’re willing to improve on demand is your transphobia. Wouldn’t want anyone to think you were letting that fall by the wayside!

God, you’re the opposite of everything a human being should be.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

For a guy who’s ignoring me, he seems to be acknowledging that I’m on this thread xD

Shaenon
8 years ago

Since I’m such an egalitarian. I’ll cook and clean for any woman here. I’ll even give sex on demand and be happy about it. I’ll always be cheerful. All it’ll take is 60K a year. Hell, I’ll even memorize feminist doctrine and sing in verse for ya. Any takers?

No, honey pumpkin. Here’s the offer. You move into my house and cook, clean, and babysit for me. In return, I will provide a roof over your head and give you an allowance to buy food and, if you beg prettily, clothing. If you do well, you may even get presents! But that house had better be sparkling and those kids had better greet me charmingly at the door.

Because I’m so generous, you don’t even have to have sex with me or do home repairs. Just the cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, laundry, gardening, and childcare will be fine, my precious pudding. Oh, but the feminist singing sounds nice. I have “Free to Be You and Me” on vinyl and you can sing along with that.

Isn’t that a great deal, baby princeling? You said yourself that paid work is awful, staying at home all day is wonderful, and children are a ceaseless joy. You would be a hypocrite of the highest order not to take me up on it.

Contact me on Facebook (same screen name) and we’ll work out the details, duckling.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

So the question is… what is NWO going to get angry at? xD That I went around the system (*gasp* the state!) and transitioned on my own, or that the system doesn’t work the way he just claimed it did?

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

@Lauralot and he complains about MY writing

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Quackers

Total time it takes me a week to cook and clean and do the laundry. 10 hours. If there were 2 people it might take 12. I mean the only extra would be an extra or two of laundry and a few more dishes.

So what your really doing since you’d have to clean up after your self anyway is add about 20% more labor to that time. Right? I still need to eat, clean, laundry.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

I don’t understand why you can have a live-in housekeeper for $400/week, marry her, and then get the exact same services for free. Does that make sense to you?

but you’re paying her with sex! and shelter! doesn’t that count?! sex and shelter totally equals freedom doesn’t it? DOESN’T IT??!?

I know his argument. I’d like to see him try it on black people. “Well, you slaves were sheltered in exchange for the work you did, doesn’t that count?”

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

Here’s how backward the world is. Send Ami to a shrink and the shink’ll say he’s right and everyone else in the world is wrong. Is that not insanity. In a normal world the shrink would try to actually help. But no, the world is wrong. Insanity.

Holy shit, you’re pathetic. You’ve just been waiting for any excuse to try to insult Ami without actually talking to her, haven’t you, you coward? I bet you were absolutely giddy when you got the chance.

Your “normal” world is a self-induced hell, NWO. Have fun!

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Actually NWO, most of society and a lot of the ppl with authority actually believe the way you do about trans ppl. It’s… weird you think you’re like the only one or something o_O

But right, you gotta be the brave rebel xD

zhinxy
8 years ago

fathers in prison for not being ABLE to pay child support is terrible. But it’s not the modern scourge of earth. It happens, and it’s bad, but it’s not the ultimate SHUT UP THIS IS THE MAIN ISSUE THIS IS WHAT YOU FEMINISTS WANT LOOK AT THE PAIN YOU MOOCHING BITCHES LOOK AT THE PAIIIIIN YOU INFLICT!

My ex hasn’t paid a fucking dime of his child support, and I haven’t taken him to court for it, because he’s a vindictive asshole and other reasons. Plenty of women are n’t throwing their deadbeat dads in any sort of jail. I know it’s unpossible, but that’s reality too.

That taxes end at the barrel of a gun or a jail cell IS important, even if those taxes are all going to wonderful things, and the system is working like a greased … working thing that works better with grease on it *hic!*

But they END at the barrel of the gun. And there’s lots of other things they’re doing to us that weigh a lot heavier and more immediately on the lives of many than that.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Holy shit, you’re pathetic. You’ve just been waiting for any excuse to try to insult Ami without actually talking to her, haven’t you, you coward? I bet you were absolutely giddy when you got the chance.

But it’s more fun that way XD

And his self imposed restrictions gives me a nice barrier too xD of his own design! 😀

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

I think part of it also is that if NWO addresses me, he can’t use third person pronouns… all he can say is “you” and therefore he knows it’s gonna be obvious he genders me female in his mind by the way he talks to me. xD He needs somewhere where he can make his bold statement of I SWEAR I THINK AMI IS A DUDE!! NO I DO! xD

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Total time it takes me a week to cook and clean and do the laundry. 10 hours. If there were 2 people it might take 12. I mean the only extra would be an extra or two of laundry and a few more dishes.

Total time children need supervision: 24 hours a day.

Okay, they’ll sleep for maybe 9 or 10, but they do get up in the middle of night and need things, too, so you need to be at least “on call” 24 hours a day.

Anyway, you’re big on yelling “I WON’T PAY 60K!” but surprisingly small on making the case for “free.” Why should I bother, again?

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Children sleep for 9-10 hours a day!?

THOSE LAZY BITCHES!

klopbop
klopbop
8 years ago

What’s always bothered me about the “cost of child-raising” argument is that it measures it only in monetary value. Okay, so a child costs X amount of money to raise, on average. But isn’t there also value in things like, free time to pursue hobbies, happiness and leisure, or a sense of stability? These things are essential to people, too, not just the bare minimums, for both adults and children.

Like Anti-Moron’s-Rights, I was raised in a super-privileged home. My parents placed education at a premium and I had constant encouragement to develop whatever skills and hobbies I had an interest in. My dad’s enjoyment at my sister and I learning HTML has secured me jobs that I wouldn’t have had otherwise. There really isn’t a monetary value on that, is there?

I’m very strongly childfree. I do not want kids around me, I don’t like them, and I don’t want any. But I’m also very strongly pro-child in practice. I will pay more taxes for good schools, good nutritional programs, extra childcare for families, the opportunities for kids to learn and have good experiences. Even on just a selfish level, a well-rounded, well-fed society benfits ME. Not only is it good for them, but I see benefits. I have healthier people around me, lower insurance premiums, and I can count on people being well-educated. A pretty sweet deal, indeed.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Curious to see how NWO responds to Zhinxy.

OH WAIT TOTAL IGNORE xD

NWO prolly just assumed Zhinxy is lying and her abusive husband has good reasons for abusing her.

Men = good

Women = badz

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

Meller made an exception for Zhinxy’s abuse in his unifying theory of she totally asked for it

Somehow I doubt NWO will though. He’s very consistent and thorough in his abuse-excusing xD

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

I think part of it also is that if NWO addresses me, he can’t use third person pronouns… all he can say is “you” and therefore he knows it’s gonna be obvious he genders me female in his mind by the way he talks to me. xD He needs somewhere where he can make his bold statement of I SWEAR I THINK AMI IS A DUDE!! NO I DO! xD

I think a lot of it is that NWO treasures the idea that he has a way to really get to someone, and holds dear the illusion that he’s totally getting under your skin and destroying your ego.

Any time someone says something that might make them vulnerable when he’s around (I noticed this when I talked about being sexually assaulted and again when I talked about having survival sex, and in this thread he brought up my mom being abusive–the man remembers, which is pretty surprising considering), he tries his damndest to twist the knife in them.

…Like Jesus would have wanted.

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Quackers

I mean lets be real here, Quackers. If you live by yourself you have to cook, clean, laundry, shop and all that other stuff.

If I’m shopping and I pick up 2 pounds of gound chuck instead of 1 there really wasn’t any extra effort. A gallon of milk instead of a half gallon.

I clean the bathroom, well nothing really changed there. Right?

I cooked 4 pieces of chicken instead of 2. twice the amount of green beans. An extra potato or two. What’s changed? An extra utensile or two? Another plate?

I do 4 loads of laundry instead of 2. I don’t “watch” the washer or dryer. 20 minutes to fold instead of ten.

You see all those things get done reguarless of being 2 people or 1. So the “extra” is really all that “extra” after all. 20% more time than just doing what you have to do for yourself.

Amused
8 years ago

Since I’m such an egalitarian. I’ll cook and clean for any woman here. I’ll even give sex on demand and be happy about it. I’ll always be cheerful. All it’ll take is 60K a year. Hell, I’ll even memorize feminist doctrine and sing in verse for ya. Any takers?

Shaenon has already given you a very attractive counteroffer. I, in turn, and going to give you mine, borrowed from Judy Brady’s “I want a wife”:

Why do I want a wife?

I would like to go back to school so that I can become economically independent, support myself, and if need be, support those dependent upon me. I want a wife who will work and send me to school. And while I am going to school I want a wife to take care of my children. I want a wife a wife to keep track of the children’s doctor and dentist appointments. And to keep track of mine, too. I want a wife to make sure my children eat properly and are kept clean. I want a wife who will wash the children’s clothes and keep them mended. I want a wife who is a good nurturing attendant to my children, who arranges for their schooling, makes sure that they have an adequate social life with their peers, takes them to the park, the zoo, etc. I want a wife who takes care of the children when they are sick, a wife who arranges to be around when the children need special care, because, of course, I cannot miss classes at school. My wife must arrange to lose time at work and not lose the job. It may mean a small cut in my wife’s income from time to time, but I guess I can tolerate that. Needless to say, my wife will arrange and pay for the care of the children while my wife is working.

I want a wife who will take care of my physical needs. I want a wife who will keep my house clean. A wife who will pick up after my children, a wife who will pick up after me. I want a wife who will keep my clothes clean, ironed, mended, replaced when need be, and who will see to it that my personal things are kept in their proper place so that I can find what I need the minute I need it. I want a wife who cooks the meals, a wife who is a good cook. I want a wife who will plan the menus, do the necessary grocery shopping, prepare the meals,serve them pleasantly, and then do the cleaning up while I do my studying. I want a wife who will care for me when I am sick and sympathize with my pain and loss of time from school. I want a wife to go along when our family takes a vacation so that someone can continue care for me and my when I need a rest and change of scene. I want a wife who will not bother me with rambling complaints about a wife’s duties. But I want a wife who will listen to me when I feel the need to explain a rather difficult point I have come across in my course of studies. And I want a wife who will type my papers for me when I have written them.

I want a wife who will take care of the details of my social life. When my wife and I are invited out by my friends, I want a wife who take care of the baby-sitting arrangements. When I meet people at school that I like and want to entertain, I want a wife who will have the house clean, will prepare a special meal, serve it to me and my friends, and not interrupt when I talk about things that interest me and my friends. I want a wife who will have arranged that the children are fed and ready for bed before my guests arrive so that the children do not bother us. I want a wife who takes care of the needs of my quests so that they feel comfortable, who makes sure that they have an ashtray, that they are passed the hors d’oeuvres, that they are offered a second helping of the food, that their wine glasses are replenished when necessary, that their coffee is served to them as they like it. And I want a wife who knows that sometimes I need a night out by myself.

I want a wife who is sensitive to my sexual needs, a wife who makes love passionately and eagerly when I feel like it, a wife who makes sure that I am satisfied. And, of course, I want a wife who will not demand sexual attention when I am not in the mood for it. I want a wife who assumes the complete responsibility for birth control, because I do not want more children. I want a wife who will remain sexually faithful to me so that I do not have to clutter up my intellectual life with jealousies. And I want a wife who understands that my sexual needs may entail more than strict adherence to monogamy. I must, after all, be able to relate to people as fully as possible.

If, by chance, I find another person more suitable as a wife than the wife I already have, I want the liberty to replace my present wife with another one. Naturally, I will expect a fresh, new life; my wife will take the children and be solely responsible for them so that I am left free.

So, NWO — would you like to be my wife?

When I am through with school and have a job, I want my wife to quit working and remain at home so that my wife can more fully and completely take care of a wife’s duties.

Quackers
Quackers
8 years ago

@NWO

If I’m cleaning up after myself, I’m not getting paid. But you’re forgetting the key factor in all this…I work for money. At home doing freelance for now. It’s not a lot, but I’m paid for my services. The traditional housewife is NOT. Why do you as a man, think you are entitled to another adult women cleaning up after you and your kids for no money. Or one who has to demean herself like a child and beg for an allowance from you.

Money=freedom. If you are able bodied and don’t have severe mental disabilities you have the right to work for money to support yourself and to live your life how you see it.

Fuck, even my grandmother who has a traditional marriage still worked for some extra money from her home.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Holly, Jesus would totes be down with NWO’s behavior!

CassandraSays
CassandraSays
8 years ago

“Women = badz”

I initially read that as “women = batz”. Which would make more sense than anything that NWO is rambling about.

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

And lo, Jesus said “Bitches ain’t shit but hos and tricks.”

Dracula
Dracula
8 years ago

Hey NWO: RAISING CHILDREN. NOT JUST HOUSEWORK. FACTOR IT IN INSTEAD OF CHANGING THE SUBJECT.

Holly Pervocracy
8 years ago

Carefull, Hellkell! If we tell him Christianity is a religion of forgiveness and love he’ll tell us that all Jews put baby’s blood in wells to cause the plague.

Because that’s, you know, a zero-sum game.

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

Lauralot, I think he may have also said “I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain’t one.”

hellkell
hellkell
8 years ago

You mean you DON’T, Holly?!?

Lauralot
Lauralot
8 years ago

@hellkell: Don’t forget “Let he who is without sin BEAT HER IN THE STREET.”

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

@Holly except he’s picking the wrong thing xD

If I was so sensitive to transphobia by trolls does NWO rly think I’d have said I was trans? xD

He’s angry he didn’t figure it out on his own b/c he SHOULD have given his whole “MEN AND WOMEN ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY GENETICALLY DIFFERENT” thing xD

There ARE things NWO could twist the knife in me for… but he’s picking the wrong one xD

Like attacking Ozy for being a “slut” (oh noes!)

nwoslave
8 years ago

@Quackers

Did you read my previous post at 7:48?

Like I said you have to do all those things for yourself now. For the most part the “extra” time is negligible or non-existant.

Is there a difference between mopping the floor for one or two? Vacuming for one or two? Dusting for one or two. They’re all are done reguardless of one or two people.

Ami Angelwings
8 years ago

His need to stab at me though I love, cuz whenever he does it it shows he’s fraying at the edges like mad cuz I’m around xD

He gets REALLY personal nasty when he’s rly upset and off his game. xD

1 9 10 11 12 13 16