@ Quackers

I have…issues with the entire Japanophile subculture in the US. Creepy does indeed abound in the female fans too, but it’s the exceptionally high percentage of pedos in the male side of the fanbase that really pushes my response from “you guys are weird and awkward and it’s creeping me out” into “I am genuinely concerned that you might hurt someone”. Generally speaking, in my experience, anime forums have tended to be cesspits of pedophilia and sexism. And honestly I think the pedophilia is partly a result of the sexism, or at least strongly associated with it.

(That part isn’t an American invention, it’s there in Japanese otaku culture too. In fact it’s a well-known enough association that academic papers have been written about it.)

I Brandon_ (have to delete that)

Men in general have been treated unfairly except when I _ (have to delete that) Brandon’s are fucking their hypothetical girlfriends against the wall.

I (have to delete that) Men in general like to put a woman in her place. When I spank (have to delete that). When men spank Ashley she likes it.

I think he’d be fine if he just started talking in the first person. Or generally of all men

Pro tip for Brandon if I can steal pro tip for a moment. Say Brandon or men instead of I. It would be a cute post

@Cassandra

Anime culture is problematic. On one hand its great because they actually have cartoons and comics that are aimed at women, about women or made by women and which cater to women’s aesthetic preferences (bishonen) whereas in comics and cartoons in North America the male characters are always drawn to appeal to male’s sense of masculinity first (huge muscles, uber manly) if women happen to find them attractive that’s a secondary effect.

But yes, the cute and childlike obsession Japan seems to have is creepy. The cute isn’t the creepy part. Its the associating cute with childishness which is disturbing. I don’t know if I’d consider those guys actual pedos (then again I don’t really participate in anime forums much and if I do its about the few series that I enjoy) however it definitely is a result of sexism and not being able to see women as actual human beings. Many male otakus and even creeps like Meller want real life women to act childish because its not threatening to them. And childish “innocent” women are easier to manipulate. I’m even noticing some of this creepiness leaking into the My Little Pony fandom. They’re friggen ponies for fucks sake, stop drawing them like underage anime chicks.

And here I was happy that grown men weren’t ashamed to watch a show aimed at girls, meanwhile a lot of them are just sexualizing the characters.

I remember one time I was at a convention looking at some DVDs and a 20 something guy was asking the merchant for something. All I heard was the merchant say “yea we wouldn’t be able to get that past the border” I’m sure he was asking for loli but he was also with a young woman around the same age which I assumed was his GF so I didn’t think much else of it besides “just your typical otaky weirdo” It was definitely creepy though.

Do you have any links to these academic papers? I had no idea that stuff was actually seriously written about this topic.

@Cassandra

Oh and I remember coming across a Japanese MRA online once. Can you believe it? this is a country where panties are sold in vending machines, you can by loli comics in bookstores and women being groped on subway trains is an everyday occurrence.

And the jackass feels MEN are oppressed or discriminated against?

Dont get me wrong I think Japan is an amazing country with a neat culture, but female dominated it aint.

You know, I don’t think it’s possible for a culture to be sexist enough to eliminate MRAs entirely. Their real issue seems to be with the idea that women have free will at all, and even in the most sexist culture, women’s ability to express their free will may be limited, but it still exists. I’d pick either Saudi or Afghanistan as the most sexist places on earth right now, and I definitely encountered men who felt like women had too much freedom and were angry about it in Saudi. It is quite literally impossible to make a society sexist enough to please these guys.

Actually whenever Meller starts talking about the not-brothels and how families will be so happy to send their wayward female members there that’s what jumps into my mind – does he have a daughter? He seems so obsessed with this idea of what families can “do” about non-virgin women that I almost tend to think that he probably does have a daughter and is pissed at his inability to control her.

@Cassandra

So that paper basically describes hardcore otaku as MGTOWs? lol. Yea I can see that. I’d even add on that people who really immerse themselves into fandom, the ones that have no balance in their lives, might be frustrated with society overall.

I love Nana! it’s a great story. And yep, not all anime is all fanservice garbage or porn. That’s what I like about anime, is that there is a genre for everything. As with a lot of fandom though, the fans can sometimes tend to ruin it. Also most really popular anime actually has decent story and animation with minimum fanservice so that gives me hope…kinda. I dunno. I got sick of the whole subculture and the people associated with it so I mainly just watch what I like and keep it to myself :P

also I hope that for the sake of Meller’s hypothetical daughter that he stays the fuck away from her. Fuck…I can picture it now “girls are dumber than boys, and usually grow up to be sluts and do annoying things like ask for equal rights and to not be raped…but don’t worry sweetie, daddy still loves you…now go arrange his doll collection”

Night Quackers and happy new year to you too!

Also, a New Year’s Eve shoutout to Mr. Futrelle for his article on The Good Men Project, in case some of you have missed it: http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/dismantling-the-mens-rights-movement/. I just read it this evening, and found myself vigorously nodding in agreement with each point he made. I was especially interested to learn about the organization dedicated to ending prison rape, which has gone completely unmentioned on every single MRA site whining about rape issues.

The comments section on GMP might make your brain explode, though. There’s a veritable treasure trove of MRA stupidity there (but of course, not a whole lot of activism). Just a heads up. Happy New Year’s everyone! Now I’m off to listen to one of my favorite R.E.M. songs, as our favorite Shorters have declared this the Year of the Rapture, and Michael Stipe has a magical ability to make even the Rapture seem happy.

Wait, do MRAs try to train their daughter to not hook up with the boys who any other girls are interested in?

“No, sweetie, I know you like Jason but he seems to be rather popular, so you can’t date him because FUCK WHY DO WOMEN ALWAYS DO THIS, FUCK, YOU’RE ALL BITCHES, YOU NEVER GIVE THE BETA NICE GUY A CHANCE – BITCHES! Have you considered Bob? I know that he smells kind of funny and he keeps skulking around trying to steal your panties out of the dryer, but I’m sure you’d like him if you got to know him better YOU SPOILED PRINCESS BITCH. Daddy loves you.”

Here’s it, Thanks to Ami!

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/11/08/relationshipstrategies/playing-the-long-game/comment-page-2/#comment-72439

It is my goal to raise a non-hyerpgamous daughter, or–to the extent that is impossible because natural urges are inexpungable–to smash that impluse down under a strict regimen of character education. I want her to find a “good catch,” don’t get me wrong, but only one.

And of course, we should all smash our evil hypergamy down!

“The reason the alphas seem so misogynistic is that 99% or more of their experience with women is with sluts, morons, emotional wrecks, or the painfully naive (categories not necessarily exclusive). So of course they don’t respect those women and then it’s only natural that they extrapolate that lack of respect to all women. What they pine for is one worthy of their respect.

So, to you girls who hate the hook-up scene: BE THAT GIRL. By that I mean not just avoiding casual sex (though that is hugely important), but be it on the inside. Understand your own hypergamous impluse and smash it down.

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/11/08/relationshipstrategies/playing-the-long-game/comment-page-3/#comment-72551

Really, this completely bizarre notion that “Arranged marriages / Patriarchal courtship and dating rules were all about making sure betas had access to nice proper wives, and nobody tried to marry their daughters up or anything! Hypergamy was considered rightly EVIL!” is one of THE most bizarre notions in the fascinating world of MRAhistory and Mranthropology.

But here’s the jewel in that crown, the “If My Son Turns Out To Be An Alpha” speech…

http://www.hookingupsmart.com/2011/11/08/relationshipstrategies/playing-the-long-game/#comment-72186

“As it stands, my speech would go something like this if he turns out to be an alpha. I haven’t really thought through the beta speech yet though a lot of this would apply.

Son, the times you face are different from when I was a kid. Every old man says that but this time it’s really, really true. Moreover, the times are worse. You can call me Abe Simpson if you want but I’m smarter than you and better read and have more experience. Ignore this at your peril. In any event, you’re going to be forced to listen to it.

….

” girls, not necessarily sluts, are confused, impressionable, and in the grip of a low aspect of their nature that they don’t quite understand. At least the low aspect of your nature–wanting to rack up a big body count–is easy for you to understand. Girls have it a bit harder. On the one hand, “nice” girls want boyfriends and eventually husbands. But it’s not quite that simple. They want the best one they can get and which male they perceive as best can change rather rapidly. Since they are not honest with themselves about this, it is much harder for them to control their low nature than it is for you. So even “nice” girls can be willing to have sex with you very early.”

“So even “nice” girls can be willing to have sex with you very early.”

Son blinks, perplexed, and then says “that’s a bad thing?”.

@ Shadow

The linked video was pretty funny. OK, so, some men got on the woman’s train car, and the women made them leave. Clearly this proves that evil feminists have taken over Delhi. They must be stopped! Men should be allowed to go wherever the fuck they want! Clearly there is no reason why those train cars exist, it’s just women being princesses who’re too snooty to be sociable.

HAHAHAHAHA… I KNOW right? It’s so funny because, I knew that the attitudes exist, but it’s to see a blog actually devoted to Indian MRAism. And the protest, Dear God, the protest!!

The dude at the actual, serious protest with his silly little sign was just awesome. We shall overcome, man. Sing it.

This is why anti-feminists are silly. In most cases, women are working. Thus bringing money into the family. Thus not needing men as ATM machines anymore. Why I bet they buy their own shoes too! Golddiggers do not count. Because no one is forcing men to pay golddiggers, as opposed to having to support your stay at home wife. Even then you can divorce her if you really don’t want to.

On top of that it’s so much easier to get laid now with birth control and more relaxed ideas about sex. But they still complain about sluts and hypergamy.

What do these idiots WANT anymore? besides total female slavery? oh wait, I just answered my own question. Never mind.

@CassandraSays

And looking at the blog there’s someone else with the same sign so there was an actual movement of at least two!! I don’t know how legitimate the actual protest is but I wouldn’t be surprised if the domestic violence laws weren’t written in gender neutral language, wives beating on husbands is a cultural joke out there. Of course, on the flip side, domestic abuse is still very much seen as a private matter between wife and husband, so any law is an improvement to the situation.

I’m not kidding when I say that I met men when I was there who were convinced that women these days have too much freedom and it must be stopped. And that was in the 80s.

MRAs – the most ridiculous political movement of all time?

Anyways y’all, gotta hit da sack. Night!

Can us manboobzers just move onto another planet and just start our own civilization? I don’t want to live on a planet where such people exist.

I vote myself for position of artist (Spearhafoc too) and plushie-maker!

@Shadow

Yea that isn’t fair to either sex. The logical thing to do is encourage women to work and bring in some money thus easing up on the men’s expectations to make all the money. This is why for the most part, gender roles are BS. I’m not up to snuff with what’s going on in India but they do have a female president so I’m sure things are changing. With that change will come a backlash though. Another reason why I despise reactionary traditionalists.

Can us manboobzers just move onto another planet and just start our own civilization? I don’t want to live on a planet where such people exist.

I second this!

Actually can we take the guy with the HUSBAND IS NOT ATM MACHINE from the domestic violence protest along, as well as the idiots who threw condoms full of purple powder in the House of Commons in London? They’re funny.

Hahahahaha…oh this is just hilarious xD

Brandon challenge = exquisite.

HAPPY NEW YEAR MANBOOBZERS!

(can I go to bed now?)

Off too work, have a good time, and if I don’t check in again, a happy new year to everyone (yes, I mean everyone, even the NWOs, Mellers, JTKs, and Brandons of the world).

nah I agree with you MRAL, female anime fans can be pretty creepy too. Like I mentioned earlier, anime tends to attract a whole new breed of socially awkward geek. As for Twilight, that whole series is creepy and just bad.

Happy new year Pecunium, I look forward to you pwning trolls in 2012 :P

Loving the Brandon challenge.

Happy New Year y’all!

@CassandraSays: For Brandon to describe something that happened to somebody else calls for him being aware enough of other people to know what happened tot hem (if not through direct observation then through listening to them and remembering what they said).

My prediction: ain’t likely.

I’m not a fan of excusing wymyn because they’re wymyn.

MRAL: Thanks for your clarification-I’m not holding women to a different standard (though I’ll agree the legal system is). If feminists have spent a century PLUS pointing out the inequalities (I have problems with the phrase double standard right now, so let’s talk inequalities) built into kyriarchal systems (because it’s not just gender but race), then blaming feminists (as a group) for the double standards makes.no.sense.

The creepiness is the same on the individual level

On the larger, systemic level: the majority of adults who molest children are straight white men.

Vast majority.

And while there are probably sentencing disparities in the cases brought to court, the odds are the VAST number of cases are never brought to court–so the social reality is that adult men have sexual access to children in ways that adult women do not, without penalty.

So, yes INDIVIDUAL creepiness the same.

SOCIAL RESULTS totally different. The inequality is built into the system: and you seem to assume that overall it benefits women.

I don’t see that it does benefit women, so that’s where we disagree.

You at times seem to be blaming women for the situation–again, we disagree on the area of responsibility. Women as well as men are part of the kyriarchy–so to that extent they are part of maintaining the structure, BUT women as a group do not have the power or get the rewards that men as a group do.

Unless you can distinguish between the individual and the system in these discussions, you’re missing out on a huge part of the issue of social discourse and change.

And I’ll just have to shut up I guess because while I’m paid to do this for my students, it’s not that fun doing it on the internet for free.

I’m not so sure about the “straight, white” part, at least proportionally.

Brandon challenge is even better now. 35 times! Awesome!

35 times? This is the most awesome challenge ever.

Happy New Year!

But women, in my opinion, have FAR, FAR more social leeway in ogling young guys (again, look at Twilight- and don’t give me “he looked older”, that’s the same excuse the r/jailbait guys used). You can come up with entirely legitimate reasons why this is the case, but since most men and women are in fact not spiritual members of the late great r/jailbait, functionally, for most people it’s just a double standard.

Maybe I’m sheltered — or willfully ignorant? — but I don’t see this. I’ve seen guys (online and off) hitting on and making weird comments to and about underage women all my life. I’ve never seen older women do this in meatworld, and even when it happens online it’s in the context of News Story About Older Women Asking Lautner to Sign Panties (I had to seek that out, actually), followed by millions of comments about ewwwwwww how gross is that. Which I have no problem with. Adult women asking an underage boy to sign their panties is gross. But (1) it’s hardly evidence that women have far more social leeway in ogling young guys, and (2) I think it’s telling that the majority response to women in their 40s and 50s hitting on young guys is that older women’s sexuality is disgusting.

Now, if you’re talking about outlier cases where adult women rape minor boys, and the problems the criminal justice system has with holding those women responsible, sure — there is a problem there, and it extends to the media not taking those cases seriously as crimes but using them as a referendum on the criminal’s hotness.